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Post by swinny on Apr 2, 2023 11:22:58 GMT
We legitimately haven't played with this much confidence since Hughes'second season. You can see it in the squad, not just the way they're playing but their body language, how they're co-ordinating.
The key is to take this confidence into next season and ultimately, retain as much of the squad or get in players that are willing to work as hard and gel as this buch now have.
I'd just about had my fill with Neil and Stoke altogether by the end of January, but he turned those freak wins in a dearth of losses into more composed and frequent performances, now we're reaping the rewards of the work he's put in.
Call me fairweather, but I'm properly falling back in love with Stoke again.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Apr 2, 2023 11:40:31 GMT
Play the way we have been doing since the turn of the year next season,we should be up there vying for promotion.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Apr 2, 2023 11:48:21 GMT
CovCityKid 19:27 1 Apr "Stoke were incredible today and brushed us aside with ease. From the first moment they looked a class outfit and that was the best display I've seen from an opposition side at home for years. They thoroughly deserved that win and we were lucky wasn't doubled."
Another commenter saying Pearson ran the game.
I believe we are actually quite good!
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Post by walrus on Apr 2, 2023 12:04:20 GMT
I don’t agree with your position and I certainly don’t agree that I’m being disingenuous, especially as I acknowledged the importance of Pearson in my post. If you look at our games from the first half of the season some of our best performances and results came from the handful of occasions we played with a back four. Beating Sheffield United at home and Preston away in the space of a few days sprints to mind. As does comfortably beating a very good Luton side at home. Results like that show that the idea that we couldn’t play with a back four before Pearson signed just doesn’t wash. I think people are so keen to get swept along by the joy of how well we’re playing recently - and trust me I’m absolutely enjoying it too - that they conveniently forget just how badly the back five system worked for us in the first half of the season and just how much grief Neil was correctly getting for persevering with it. I understand your position - look back at some of my posts around that time and I would be saying it then - ditch the back 5 and play a 4. Looking back on it and learning from it, as we all should do, I don't think it was as simple as I was trying to paint it. Pearson has transformed this side and results aside, we are now not just winning games but playing very differently with a back four than we were and are dominating sides. I didn't agree with what he did back then, but seeing us now I can understand why now when looking back. His whole philosophy on football is about strangling the opposition tactically and physically. Without Pearson in that middle of the park, and the trust that he brings, he couldn't position his full backs as high as they are in a four or commit his two wide central midfielders as high and wide as they are. Like I say, that alone dictates he needed that window to get Pearson in the side. Preston away we played with a back 3/5 btw. Fair enough, and I may well be misremembering Preston. But if anything I think you’re oversimplifying now by saying it all boils down to Pearson. The formation we’re playing now suits our other better players so much better as well. Laurent’s able to be the box to box midfielder Reading fans promised. Smallbone’s been able to use his incredible athleticism to do more than just close down possession. And we’ve known for years that Campbell is best suited to playing wide in a front three. If Pearson was to get a season-ending injury tomorrow I don’t think you’d find a single fan on here advocating a return to the back five system. So I don’t agree that his signing was necessary to move away from it.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 2, 2023 12:04:47 GMT
I've been very critical of the manager early doors, possibly extremely harsh in certain cases but I don't think you are right at all there and think that is a very disingenuous way of looking at it. Ben Pearson and Ben Pearson alone has made this back four system work. Thompson has been much maligned here IMO but he's nowhere near Pearson and the difference in this system with Pearson at DM and Thompson there when it was tried earlier in the season is like chalk and cheese. Laurent also didn't work there when he was tried there. That alone dictates it needed the window to sort it out. I don’t agree with your position and I certainly don’t agree that I’m being disingenuous, especially as I acknowledged the importance of Pearson in my post. If you look at our games from the first half of the season some of our best performances and results came from the handful of occasions we played with a back four. Beating Sheffield United at home and Preston away in the space of a few days sprints to mind. As does comfortably beating a very good Luton side at home. Results like that show that the idea that we couldn’t play with a back four before Pearson signed just doesn’t wash. I think people are so keen to get swept along by the joy of how well we’re playing recently - and trust me I’m absolutely enjoying it too - that they conveniently forget just how badly the back five system worked for us in the first half of the season and just how much grief Neil was correctly getting for persevering with it. In terms of how effective we have been this season for me it goes: 1) Back four with Pearson 2) Back four with others 3) Back five I’m not saying we’d be looking anywhere near as good as we are currently if we’d played a back four all season. But I do think we’d have more points than we do currently. See where you're coming from and I think we should've played a back four earlier than we did, but I don't think we see what we've seen without the transfer window we've had - not just Pearson but the energy at full back. It's given a purpose to the whole side. We have an awful lot of work to do in the summer but even if we don't get as many of the loanees back in as we'd like, I think at this stage we can trust Martin and Neil to know what they want. For the first time since about 2015 it feels like there is actually a viable plan that and we've identified what we need to implement it.
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Apr 2, 2023 12:04:53 GMT
I said when he first came that he needs x2/3 transfer windows to get us to a point where we can seriously challenge for promotion. I honestly believe that we would be promoted if this season was 6 games longer. He obviously knows what he's doing and the players that he got in are a great fit. We just need to let him do his job and stop with the negativity when we drop points.
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Post by Rick Grimes on Apr 2, 2023 12:06:28 GMT
I've been very critical of the manager early doors, possibly extremely harsh in certain cases but I don't think you are right at all there and think that is a very disingenuous way of looking at it. Ben Pearson and Ben Pearson alone has made this back four system work. Thompson has been much maligned here IMO but he's nowhere near Pearson and the difference in this system with Pearson at DM and Thompson there when it was tried earlier in the season is like chalk and cheese. Laurent also didn't work there when he was tried there. That alone dictates it needed the window to sort it out. I don’t agree with your position and I certainly don’t agree that I’m being disingenuous, especially as I acknowledged the importance of Pearson in my post. If you look at our games from the first half of the season some of our best performances and results came from the handful of occasions we played with a back four. Beating Sheffield United at home and Preston away in the space of a few days sprints to mind. As does comfortably beating a very good Luton side at home. Results like that show that the idea that we couldn’t play with a back four before Pearson signed just doesn’t wash. I think people are so keen to get swept along by the joy of how well we’re playing recently - and trust me I’m absolutely enjoying it too - that they conveniently forget just how badly the back five system worked for us in the first half of the season and just how much grief Neil was correctly getting for persevering with it. In terms of how effective we have been this season for me it goes: 1) Back four with Pearson 2) Back four with others 3) Back five I’m not saying we’d be looking anywhere near as good as we are currently if we’d played a back four all season. But I do think we’d have more points than we do currently. You only have to look at the difference when Pearson comes off and Thompson replaces as has been the case recently. We always look terrible for it. We’ve needed a proper DM to play the way we are now.
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Post by walrus on Apr 2, 2023 12:07:26 GMT
I don’t agree with your position and I certainly don’t agree that I’m being disingenuous, especially as I acknowledged the importance of Pearson in my post. If you look at our games from the first half of the season some of our best performances and results came from the handful of occasions we played with a back four. Beating Sheffield United at home and Preston away in the space of a few days sprints to mind. As does comfortably beating a very good Luton side at home. Results like that show that the idea that we couldn’t play with a back four before Pearson signed just doesn’t wash. I think people are so keen to get swept along by the joy of how well we’re playing recently - and trust me I’m absolutely enjoying it too - that they conveniently forget just how badly the back five system worked for us in the first half of the season and just how much grief Neil was correctly getting for persevering with it. In terms of how effective we have been this season for me it goes: 1) Back four with Pearson 2) Back four with others 3) Back five I’m not saying we’d be looking anywhere near as good as we are currently if we’d played a back four all season. But I do think we’d have more points than we do currently. You only have to look at the difference when Pearson comes off and Thompson replaces as has been the case recently. We always look terrible for it. We’ve needed a proper DM to play the way we are now. So if Pearson got a season-ending injury tomorrow you’d want us to go back to playing the back five system?
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Post by Rick Grimes on Apr 2, 2023 12:18:35 GMT
You only have to look at the difference when Pearson comes off and Thompson replaces as has been the case recently. We always look terrible for it. We’ve needed a proper DM to play the way we are now. So if Pearson got a season-ending injury tomorrow you’d want us to go back to playing the back five system? Not at all. It’s just that we wouldn’t be any near as effective as we are with Pearson in the side.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 3, 2023 8:53:07 GMT
You only have to look at the difference when Pearson comes off and Thompson replaces as has been the case recently. We always look terrible for it. We’ve needed a proper DM to play the way we are now. So if Pearson got a season-ending injury tomorrow you’d want us to go back to playing the back five system? Yes - you play to your strengths. It isn't the system that makes the difference, it's having the right players who can make the system work that matters. Neil tried 4 at the back earlier this season and we worse so he reverted to 5 at the back. He'll most likely do the same if Pearson gets injured because he is essential to make it work got us.
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Post by walrus on Apr 3, 2023 10:04:38 GMT
So if Pearson got a season-ending injury tomorrow you’d want us to go back to playing the back five system? Yes - you play to your strengths. It isn't the system that makes the difference, it's having the right players who can make the system work that matters. Neil tried 4 at the back earlier this season and we worse so he reverted to 5 at the back. He'll most likely do the same if Pearson gets injured because he is essential to make it work got us. The back five system does not play to our strengths. It doesn’t suit Campbell, Smallbone, or Laurent, who aside from Pearson have been our three best players in recent months. You must have a very short memory of how crap we were with the back five this season. We were more or less in a relegation battle playing with it and lost at home to mediocre sides like Watford, Coventry, Preston, and Birmingham and barely managed a shot from open play in those matches. That is not playing to our strengths.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 3, 2023 10:48:29 GMT
Yes - you play to your strengths. It isn't the system that makes the difference, it's having the right players who can make the system work that matters. Neil tried 4 at the back earlier this season and we worse so he reverted to 5 at the back. He'll most likely do the same if Pearson gets injured because he is essential to make it work got us. The back five system does not play to our strengths. It doesn’t suit Campbell, Smallbone, or Laurent, who aside from Pearson have been our three best players in recent months. You must have a very short memory of how crap we were with the back five this season. We were more or less in a relegation battle playing with it and lost at home to mediocre sides in Watford, Coventry, Preston, and Birmingham and barely managed a shot from open play in those matches. That is not playing to our strengths. We didn't play that well with a back 5 but we played even worse with a back 4 before Pearson arrived. Neil reverted to a back 5 precisely because it better suited what we have and said as much. Both Luton and Sheffield Utd play with a back 5 and neither seem to be struggling for goals. There is nothing inherently wrong with a back 5 (or 3 as it's usually played these days) if you've got the right players.
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Post by walrus on Apr 3, 2023 11:24:42 GMT
The back five system does not play to our strengths. It doesn’t suit Campbell, Smallbone, or Laurent, who aside from Pearson have been our three best players in recent months. You must have a very short memory of how crap we were with the back five this season. We were more or less in a relegation battle playing with it and lost at home to mediocre sides in Watford, Coventry, Preston, and Birmingham and barely managed a shot from open play in those matches. That is not playing to our strengths. Both Luton and Sheffield Utd play with a back 5 and neither seem to be struggling for goals. There is nothing inherently wrong with a back 5 (or 3 as it's usually played these days) if you've got the right players. Other teams play with a back five and score lots of goals because they have players that it suits! When we did it we created next to nothing for a reason. It doesn’t suit our players. Of our current squad literally only Tymon is better suited to playing in a back five system.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 3, 2023 12:43:25 GMT
Both Luton and Sheffield Utd play with a back 5 and neither seem to be struggling for goals. There is nothing inherently wrong with a back 5 (or 3 as it's usually played these days) if you've got the right players. Other teams play with a back five and score lots of goals because they have players that it suits! When we did it we created next to nothing for a reason. It doesn’t suit our players. Of our current squad literally only Tymon is better suited to playing in a back five system. So when Neil reverted to a back 5 when his preferred back 4 and said he did it because it suited them better was he lying or do you know the players better than he does? Some players play better in a 4 or a three but the only position where it's difficult to adapt is wingback - some players (like Tymon) are only any good as a wingback and some players (like Fox) are only good as a fullback. The other key position is DM - you really need a good one to make 4 at the back work and it's only worked for since Pearson has come on. Without him it wouldn't work nearly as well.
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Post by skip on Apr 3, 2023 12:46:49 GMT
Seven matches left. 51 points. Have taken the 125-1 on offer, for us to make the playoffs (top six). We'd have to win every game and would still only finish on 72 points- a total that would have been enough only 3 times in the last 10 seasons. There's virtually no chance. A little under a one in three chance!
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Post by walrus on Apr 3, 2023 12:50:13 GMT
Other teams play with a back five and score lots of goals because they have players that it suits! When we did it we created next to nothing for a reason. It doesn’t suit our players. Of our current squad literally only Tymon is better suited to playing in a back five system. So when Neil reverted to a back 5 when his preferred back 4 and said he did it because it suited them better was he lying or do you know the players better than he does? I think he was wrong to do it. Obviously he sees the players day to day but he was still very new to the club and getting to know the squad. I’ve spent enough tedious Saturday afternoons over the past two years watching Stoke sides playing a back five system serving up turgid football to have a valid opinion. I’m as delighted as anyone that Neil has managed to turn things around and got us playing so well recently but there’s a lot of revisionism going on currently where fans seem to think he can do no wrong. You only have to look back a couple of months on this board to see that he was hardly a popular man and most supporters considered his appointment to be a flop. And a big factor in that was his choosing to play a back five system that didn’t work for his predecessor and didn’t work for him.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Apr 3, 2023 13:02:07 GMT
We are looking very good, but I also thought we looked very good at certain stages under O'Neill, especially when the 3-5-2 was flowing. There were times then when we were getting "best team we've played" plaudits. The main concern is the rebuild, but I do think we have the right people in the right places now to identify what we need. It just depends how many we can sign that really fit the bill. It's one thing identifying them but another completely to get them all through the door.
My fear is that this is just a case of everything coming to fruition because of the players and environment we have right now. Come the first game of next season, I just can't see us being in the same ruthless mindset with anywhere near the same squad. Then if we start next season off slowly, do we revert to type and go back into our shell? If there was another 5 games left, this would be an epic end to the season. As it is, and it's really brilliant to watch, it might not mean anything in the grand scheme of things. It may just be a few months of us being really good when it doesn't matter.
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Post by Trouserdog on Apr 3, 2023 17:25:36 GMT
We'd have to win every game and would still only finish on 72 points- a total that would have been enough only 3 times in the last 10 seasons. There's virtually no chance. A little under a one in three chance! A one in a hundred and twenty-six chance actually! 😘 (125-1)
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Post by innocentbystander on Apr 3, 2023 19:47:11 GMT
Abandoning Gayle has helped.
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Post by bgreen13 on Apr 3, 2023 20:29:11 GMT
I've been very critical of the manager early doors, possibly extremely harsh in certain cases but I don't think you are right at all there and think that is a very disingenuous way of looking at it. Ben Pearson and Ben Pearson alone has made this back four system work. Thompson has been much maligned here IMO but he's nowhere near Pearson and the difference in this system with Pearson at DM and Thompson there when it was tried earlier in the season is like chalk and cheese. Laurent also didn't work there when he was tried there. That alone dictates it needed the window to sort it out. I don’t agree with your position and I certainly don’t agree that I’m being disingenuous, especially as I acknowledged the importance of Pearson in my post. If you look at our games from the first half of the season some of our best performances and results came from the handful of occasions we played with a back four. Beating Sheffield United at home and Preston away in the space of a few days sprints to mind. As does comfortably beating a very good Luton side at home. Results like that show that the idea that we couldn’t play with a back four before Pearson signed just doesn’t wash. I think people are so keen to get swept along by the joy of how well we’re playing recently - and trust me I’m absolutely enjoying it too - that they conveniently forget just how badly the back five system worked for us in the first half of the season and just how much grief Neil was correctly getting for persevering with it. In terms of how effective we have been this season for me it goes: 1) Back four with Pearson 2) Back four with others 3) Back five I’m not saying we’d be looking anywhere near as good as we are currently if we’d played a back four all season. But I do think we’d have more points than we do currently. You're not enjoying. Not at all it seems.
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Post by bgreen13 on Apr 3, 2023 20:35:59 GMT
Abandoning Gayle has helped. You mean the same Gayle who's played 3 (scoring twice) out of the 5 unbeaten run we've been on? Daft.
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Post by onepara on Apr 3, 2023 20:41:32 GMT
Abandoning Gayle has helped. Gayle is injured.
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Post by stokest5 on Apr 3, 2023 21:01:55 GMT
I've been very critical of the manager early doors, possibly extremely harsh in certain cases but I don't think you are right at all there and think that is a very disingenuous way of looking at it. Ben Pearson and Ben Pearson alone has made this back four system work. Thompson has been much maligned here IMO but he's nowhere near Pearson and the difference in this system with Pearson at DM and Thompson there when it was tried earlier in the season is like chalk and cheese. Laurent also didn't work there when he was tried there. That alone dictates it needed the window to sort it out. Thompson is fine when he's under no pressure and the game is played at testimonial pace... problem is for him, that rarely happens. Setting for players like Thompson is part of the reason we’ve been out of sorts for so long imo. Not particularly bad but no where near good enough to be pushing on.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 3, 2023 21:31:33 GMT
Thompson is fine when he's under no pressure and the game is played at testimonial pace... problem is for him, that rarely happens. Setting for players like Thompson is part of the reason we’ve been out of sorts for so long imo. Not particularly bad but no where near good enough to be pushing on. Decent squad player, no more than that
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Post by skip on Apr 3, 2023 23:17:14 GMT
A little under a one in three chance! A one in a hundred and twenty-six chance actually! 😘 (125-1) Maths. Ruddy maths.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Apr 3, 2023 23:50:52 GMT
A one in a hundred and twenty-six chance actually! 😘 (125-1) Maths. Ruddy maths. Seven matches left. 51 points. Have taken the 125-1 on offer, for us to make the playoffs (top six). Hope he didn't put much on it! 😬
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hotpot
Youth Player
Posts: 432
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Post by hotpot on Apr 4, 2023 1:29:17 GMT
Having snaffled the 125-1 on us making the playoffs, I must add that I also had a little plonk on us to get promoted this season ... at 1000-1. For mine, ... in the form we are in, it does not seem a surmountable task. We have got a pretty good run-in, great talent and depth, ... but most of all, the players are happy, and it is reflected in their recent performances. Have I tempted anyone?
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Apr 4, 2023 4:11:01 GMT
Having snaffled the 125-1 on us making the playoffs, I must add that I also had a little plonk on us to get promoted this season ... at 1000-1. For mine, ... in the form we are in, it does not seem a surmountable task. We have got a pretty good run-in, great talent and depth, ... but most of all, the players are happy, and it is reflected in their recent performances. Have I tempted anyone? I admire your optimism and balls! 😂 Team value conservative or what they've been touted at. Bonham errm Hoever 9 million paid 4-5 now? Sterling 2-3 Axel 5-8 maybe more if fit. Wilmot 2-3 Pearson 8 Laurent 2-3 Smallbone 3-4 Campbell 4-5 Gayle 1? Brown 3-4 We should be doing well! Problem is we're increasing their value! Feel free to disagree! 😅
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 4, 2023 4:32:40 GMT
Having snaffled the 125-1 on us making the playoffs, I must add that I also had a little plonk on us to get promoted this season ... at 1000-1. For mine, ... in the form we are in, it does not seem a surmountable task. We have got a pretty good run-in, great talent and depth, ... but most of all, the players are happy, and it is reflected in their recent performances. Have I tempted anyone? I admire your optimism and balls! 😂 Team value conservative or what they've been touted at. Bonham errm Hoever 9 million paid 4-5 now? Sterling 2-3 Axel 5-8 maybe more if fit. Wilmot 2-3 Pearson 8 Laurent 2-3 Smallbone 3-4 Campbell 4-5 Gayle 1? Brown 3-4 We should be doing well! Problem is we're increasing their value! Feel free to disagree! 😅 Transfermarkt has some funny numbers in euros. Doesn't like Bonham (500k), does like Brown (6 mil). Reckons 2.5 mil for Pearson which I'd bite your arm off for. I think they don't really know what they're doing!
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hotpot
Youth Player
Posts: 432
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Post by hotpot on Apr 4, 2023 5:34:09 GMT
I think the main focus should be on trying to be promoted this season, instead of hoping we do so the next ... as long as we are still in with a shout. It's impossible not to be heartened by how we are playing at the moment. Every player should see that this is a great opportunity to play PL and/or thereby enhance their value, even if they are not here next season. Nothing to lose. Just like Stoke. We always seem to prefer to take the rocky road home.
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