|
|
Post by wannabee on Jan 4, 2023 9:56:24 GMT
I fully accept that young people, not just Males suffer from a lack of Role Models. I can not accept that Tate could fulfill this Role for Young Males in any sense I think it's Bizarre to conflate a lack of Male Role Models is in some way related to MSN over emphasising diversity and tolerance within Society. Moreover if diversity and respect were more fully embraced within young Males i believe it would remove one layer of confusion and promote respect generally not least towards Females. Perhaps my posting style is as you described, none of us, not even me is perfect  How is the "over emphasising of diversity and tolerance within society" going? Modern day society has never been more divided and uncertain. How about we don't "over emphasise" race, gender, pseudo feminism or social media and instead, "over emphasise" hard work, winning (and losing), physical health (as well as mental), being financially independent and being successful. Over emphasise the wrong thing and you inevitably get extreme figures trying to over compensate, right? Select people on merit, not quotas. About 80 years ago a Chap with a funny moustache preached a Doctrine of Race Selection not too dissimilar to what you are advocating now. He singled out for harsh treatment people that weren't clones of his idealistic view of how people should look and behave in a Homogeneous Society and he blamed those people that didn't "fit" his Stereotype for all the ills of Society It was a Meritocracy of people based on his selection criteria, it didn't end well. |
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jan 4, 2023 9:59:09 GMT
Or we could not use a couple of extreme Islamic state examples and maybe reference the likes of Eastern Europe, Italy, the Caribbean or South America where there is more balance? So question - Do YOU think we are living in a time where young males in the UK have an abundance of good, strong role models? I think men have it easier compared to women and have very few excuses to be little bastards. Fair enough. If you genuinely feel men have it easier in the UK than women that's fine. No one will change your mind on that. But surely you have no issue with men having role models who focus on men, encourage or celebrate masculinity and male success without being toxic? You only have to look at some of the above posts by certain posters to see how "taboo" these subjects are. |
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 4, 2023 10:03:37 GMT
I think men have it easier compared to women and have very few excuses to be little bastards. Fair enough. If you genuinely feel men have it easier in the UK than women that's fine. No one will change your mind on that. But surely you have no issue with men having role models who focus on men, encourage or celebrate masculinity and male success without being toxic? You only have to look at some of the above posts by certain posters to see how "taboo" these subjects are. I think there's plenty. There's loads of successful blokes to use as role models. |
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jan 4, 2023 10:04:13 GMT
How is the "over emphasising of diversity and tolerance within society" going? Modern day society has never been more divided and uncertain. How about we don't "over emphasise" race, gender, pseudo feminism or social media and instead, "over emphasise" hard work, winning (and losing), physical health (as well as mental), being financially independent and being successful. Over emphasise the wrong thing and you inevitably get extreme figures trying to over compensate, right? Select people on merit, not quotas. About 80 years ago a Chap with a funny moustache preached a Doctrine of Race Selection not too dissimilar to what you are advocating now. He singled out for harsh treatment people that weren't clones of his idealistic view of how people should look and behave in a Homogeneous Society and he blamed those people that didn't "fit" his Stereotype for all the ills of Society It was a Meritocracy of people based on his selection criteria, it didn't end well. Jesus mate. How do you expect anyone to debate with you or take your posts seriously when you're repeatedly putting out that kind of stuff? Surely you've got more about you. Shock horror - Wannabe immediately refers to Hitler at the sight of posters standing up for men 🤦♂️ You know what the man with a moustache did support? The banning and total censorship of alternative views. |
|
|
|
Post by superjw on Jan 4, 2023 10:12:12 GMT
Fair enough. If you genuinely feel men have it easier in the UK than women that's fine. No one will change your mind on that. But surely you have no issue with men having role models who focus on men, encourage or celebrate masculinity and male success without being toxic? You only have to look at some of the above posts by certain posters to see how "taboo" these subjects are. I think there's plenty. There's loads of successful blokes to use as role models. Like who? To be honest I can't think of any role model figures that males and young lads in particular, can look up to and learn from. My own experience is quite the opposite, it's other genders telling men what they should be and how to act which isn't what's needed when it comes to role models. I think we have a massive vaccum because of a lack of role models and this paves the way for the likes of Tate to fill a void that nobody else will - doesn't make it right it's just the reality. |
|
|
|
Post by yeswilko on Jan 4, 2023 10:15:34 GMT
I think there's plenty. There's loads of successful blokes to use as role models. Like who? To be honest I can't think of any role model figures that males and young lads in particular, can look up to and learn from. My own experience is quite the opposite, it's other genders telling men what they should be and how to act which isn't what's needed when it comes to role models. I think we have a massive vaccum because of a lack of role models and this paves the way for the likes of Tate to fill a void that nobody else will - doesn't make it right it's just the reality. Marcus Rashford immediately springs to mind. |
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jan 4, 2023 10:15:56 GMT
I think there's plenty. There's loads of successful blokes to use as role models. Like who? To be honest I can't think of any role model figures that males and young lads in particular, can look up to and learn from. My own experience is quite the opposite, it's other genders telling men what they should be and how to act which isn't what's needed when it comes to role models. I think we have a massive vaccum because of a lack of role models and this paves the way for the likes of Tate to fill a void that nobody else will - doesn't make it right it's just the reality. Absolutely. |
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 4, 2023 10:17:20 GMT
I think there's plenty. There's loads of successful blokes to use as role models. Like who? To be honest I can't think of any role model figures that males and young lads in particular, can look up to and learn from. My own experience is quite the opposite, it's other genders telling men what they should be and how to act which isn't what's needed when it comes to role models. I think we have a massive vaccum because of a lack of role models and this paves the way for the likes of Tate to fill a void that nobody else will - doesn't make it right it's just the reality. I don't think it's a reality at all apart from in the mind of people that actually part of the most powerful group of people in the world. If you're a white man, you won't get it easier as anything else. |
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jan 4, 2023 10:19:51 GMT
I think there's plenty. There's loads of successful blokes to use as role models. Like who? To be honest I can't think of any role model figures that males and young lads in particular, can look up to and learn from. My own experience is quite the opposite, it's other genders telling men what they should be and how to act which isn't what's needed when it comes to role models. I think we have a massive vaccum because of a lack of role models and this paves the way for the likes of Tate to fill a void that nobody else will - doesn't make it right it's just the reality. I'm picking up that a lot of posters can't even look to their own fathers, brothers, uncles or close male friends as role models. That's really sad. Why do you need a 'celebrity' or someone in the public eye to fulfil that role? On the whole, they'd be the very last people I'd look to for inspiration on 'how to behave' and I've certainly encouraged my kids to treat all of these 'attention-seekers', 'influencers' etc with a huge dose of scepticism. I accept that there are many 'broken' families around these days that maybe don't have those male figures in place, and we won't go into the multitude of reasons for that, but that, I would suggest, is a reason to invest more into family support services, not making excuses about turning to clowns like Tate and the like because "there are no male role models". If you're looking beyond your family and friends for such things, you need to grow up a bit I think. |
|
|
|
Post by superjw on Jan 4, 2023 10:23:45 GMT
Like who? To be honest I can't think of any role model figures that males and young lads in particular, can look up to and learn from. My own experience is quite the opposite, it's other genders telling men what they should be and how to act which isn't what's needed when it comes to role models. I think we have a massive vaccum because of a lack of role models and this paves the way for the likes of Tate to fill a void that nobody else will - doesn't make it right it's just the reality. I don't think it's a reality at all apart from in the mind of people that actually part of the most powerful group of people in the world. If you're a white man, you won't get it easier as anything else. Please explain how I have it easier as a white man and why that correlates to role models? Moreover, what on earth has race got to do with whether there are enough role models for young lads? |
|
|
|
Post by superjw on Jan 4, 2023 10:39:38 GMT
Like who? To be honest I can't think of any role model figures that males and young lads in particular, can look up to and learn from. My own experience is quite the opposite, it's other genders telling men what they should be and how to act which isn't what's needed when it comes to role models. I think we have a massive vaccum because of a lack of role models and this paves the way for the likes of Tate to fill a void that nobody else will - doesn't make it right it's just the reality. I'm picking up that a lot of posters can't even look to their own fathers, brothers, uncles or close male friends as role models. That's really sad. Why do you need a 'celebrity' or someone in the public eye to fulfil that role? On the whole, they'd be the very last people I'd look to for inspiration on 'how to behave' and I've certainly encouraged my kids to treat all of these 'attention-seekers', 'influencers' etc with a huge dose of scepticism. I accept that there are many 'broken' families around these days that maybe don't have those male figures in place, and we won't go into the multitude of reasons for that, but that, I would suggest, is a reason to invest more into family support services, not making excuses about turning to clowns like Tate and the like because "there are no male role models". If you're looking beyond your family and friends for such things, you need to grow up a bit I think. I think it's a bit harsh to say people need to "grow up" if they need to look outwards of a family, it's very narrow minded of you. You have already said there are a lot of broken families and you are correct - in fact it's far worse today than it ever has been. My kids being from a 2 parent family are getting on for being a minority in their school, I was brought up by my mum with no father figure at the time where it wasnt as.common to see divorce. Personally I didn't consider any of the males in my extended family as role models, they weren't in my life enough to be one, but knowing that I just needed to "grow up" really sorts me out, cheers. I actually took my own role models mostly from Teachers and those that were influencing my life at the time, but it's certainly not the same for everyone and there are certainly young lads with no role model figure close to them so naturally they would turn to more external people. The massive difference was I grew up just before social media and this is probably the reason it's completely different from when me and you were kids. These days boys (well all kids) are exposed to countless figures who they deem themselves as influencing or popular in their lives - an exposure kids of my age never got in the slightest - the power of social media and what kids these days perceive as a role model shouldn't be underestimated, this is how the likes of Tate get a platform. No social.media = No Tate |
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Jan 4, 2023 11:00:49 GMT
I honestly can't believe the direction this thread has went in. It's absolutely bizarre.
We have a man arrested for human trafficking and rape who has a long history of being misogynist with many quotes in this thread of drivel coming from his mouth.
We have his supporters making posts saying he probably isn't a good role model, that he deliberatley provokes people and that he makes alot of bad points. But at the same time saying that men are now starved of role models because a misogynist bully who is accused of VERY SERIOUS crimes has been arrested, and suggesting that once again it's all a conspiracy.
Like seriously? :lol:
I presume Tommy Robinson is another one of these "role models" that young men should be looking up to which has been cancelled by the media lol?
Even more funny is that some of the people liking these posts about him being this brilliant role model were calling him a complete tool 4 pages earlier. Which one is it?
|
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Jan 4, 2023 11:05:08 GMT
I'm picking up that a lot of posters can't even look to their own fathers, brothers, uncles or close male friends as role models. That's really sad. Why do you need a 'celebrity' or someone in the public eye to fulfil that role? On the whole, they'd be the very last people I'd look to for inspiration on 'how to behave' and I've certainly encouraged my kids to treat all of these 'attention-seekers', 'influencers' etc with a huge dose of scepticism. I accept that there are many 'broken' families around these days that maybe don't have those male figures in place, and we won't go into the multitude of reasons for that, but that, I would suggest, is a reason to invest more into family support services, not making excuses about turning to clowns like Tate and the like because "there are no male role models". If you're looking beyond your family and friends for such things, you need to grow up a bit I think. I think it's a bit harsh to say people need to "grow up" if they need to look outwards of a family, it's very narrow minded of you. You have already said there are a lot of broken families and you are correct - in fact it's far worse today than it ever has been. My kids being from a 2 parent family are getting on for being a minority in their school, I was brought up by my mum with no father figure at the time where it wasnt as.common to see divorce. Personally I didn't consider any of the males in my extended family as role models, they weren't in my life enough to be one, but knowing that I just needed to "grow up" really sorts me out, cheers. I actually took my own role models mostly from Teachers and those that were influencing my life at the time, but it's certainly not the same for everyone and there are certainly young lads with no role model figure close to them so naturally they would turn to more external people. The massive difference was I grew up just before social media and this is probably the reason it's completely different from when me and you were kids. These days boys (well all kids) are exposed to countless figures who they deem themselves as influencing or popular in their lives - an exposure kids of my age never got in the slightest - the power of social media and what kids these days perceive as a role model shouldn't be underestimated, this is how the likes of Tate get a platform. No social.media = No Tate I think it's more worrying for any men in here who have daughters to be honest. If there are children out there looking up to a man who beats women and sees them as a possession then that is pretty worrying, and that would have me concerned about my daughters safety. I also think some people are misunderstanding the definition of role model too. Role Model - A role model is a person whose behaviour, example, or success is or can be emulated by others, especially by younger people. Do you believe someone like Andrew Tate fits the above definition? I don't. |
|
|
|
Post by superjw on Jan 4, 2023 11:07:47 GMT
I honestly can't believe the direction this thread has went in. It's absolutely bizarre. We have a man arrested for human trafficking and rape who has a long history of being misogynist with many quotes in this thread of drivel coming from his mouth. We have his supporters making posts saying he probably isn't a good role model, that he deliberatley provokes people and that he makes alot of bad points. But at the same time saying that men are now starved of role models because a misogynist bully who is accused of VERY SERIOUS crimes has been arrested, and suggesting that once again it's all a conspiracy. Like seriously? :lol: I presume Tommy Robinson is another one of these "role models" that young men should be looking up to which has been cancelled by the media lol? Even more funny is that some of the people liking these posts about him being this brilliant role model were calling him a complete tool 4 pages earlier. Which one is it? I'm not.sure who has said that lads are starved of role models because he is rightly no longer on the scene anymore, my own point is digging into the reason why people like him have risen so quickly amongst lads of a certain age - which is because of a lack of them in the first place. A time of better role model and influential figures for boys and ideally no social media would not put the likes of him on the rather large platform he had |
|
|
|
Post by superjw on Jan 4, 2023 11:18:32 GMT
I think it's a bit harsh to say people need to "grow up" if they need to look outwards of a family, it's very narrow minded of you. You have already said there are a lot of broken families and you are correct - in fact it's far worse today than it ever has been. My kids being from a 2 parent family are getting on for being a minority in their school, I was brought up by my mum with no father figure at the time where it wasnt as.common to see divorce. Personally I didn't consider any of the males in my extended family as role models, they weren't in my life enough to be one, but knowing that I just needed to "grow up" really sorts me out, cheers. I actually took my own role models mostly from Teachers and those that were influencing my life at the time, but it's certainly not the same for everyone and there are certainly young lads with no role model figure close to them so naturally they would turn to more external people. The massive difference was I grew up just before social media and this is probably the reason it's completely different from when me and you were kids. These days boys (well all kids) are exposed to countless figures who they deem themselves as influencing or popular in their lives - an exposure kids of my age never got in the slightest - the power of social media and what kids these days perceive as a role model shouldn't be underestimated, this is how the likes of Tate get a platform. No social.media = No Tate I think it's more worrying for any men in here who have daughters to be honest. If there are children out there looking up to a man who beats women and sees them as a possession then that is pretty worrying, and that would have me concerned about my daughters safety. I also think some people are misunderstanding the definition of role model too. Role Model - A role model is a person whose behaviour, example, or success is or can be emulated by others, especially by younger people. Do you believe someone like Andrew Tate fits the above definition? I don't. Of course I don't believe Tate is a role model, Christ on a bike. I don't really get some of these posts labelling others trying to debate how this has all come about as fans of the man. You have to ask how he amassed such a following and how he can be seen as this figure to them and I stand by my point, he has simply filled a void that nobody else is. If I think about another post on here - apparently boys should be looking at their fathers and families for role models. Well I would say in this case that all of the families of the lads that followed the man have clearly failed them in the role model department if the only person in their lives with such a meaning is him. If there was someone that represented the young lads with such a platform as Tate that stood for everything that's good about being a young lad and a man and how to conduct oneself in the modern world - the likes of Tate would not have the space to fester. |
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Jan 4, 2023 11:27:30 GMT
I honestly can't believe the direction this thread has went in. It's absolutely bizarre. We have a man arrested for human trafficking and rape who has a long history of being misogynist with many quotes in this thread of drivel coming from his mouth. We have his supporters making posts saying he probably isn't a good role model, that he deliberatley provokes people and that he makes alot of bad points. But at the same time saying that men are now starved of role models because a misogynist bully who is accused of VERY SERIOUS crimes has been arrested, and suggesting that once again it's all a conspiracy. Like seriously? :lol: I presume Tommy Robinson is another one of these "role models" that young men should be looking up to which has been cancelled by the media lol? Even more funny is that some of the people liking these posts about him being this brilliant role model were calling him a complete tool 4 pages earlier. Which one is it? I'm not.sure who has said that lads are starved of role models because he is rightly no longer on the scene anymore, my own point is digging into the reason why people like him have risen so quickly amongst lads of a certain age - which is because of a lack of them in the first place. A time of better role model and influential figures for boys and ideally no social media would not put the likes of him on the rather large platform he had The thing is the tweet about the role models referenced two people who are pretty much nobodies in the UK. The only thing they both have in common is that they've got far right extremist views and make a living from spreading hate. Like there's loads of male role models; Marcus Rashford, Keanu Reeves, Mo Farah, Andy Murray, Anthony Joshua, Paddy Bimblett, Lionel Messi, Elon Musk, Chris Hemsworth, Idris Elba, Terry Crews. This is just a random array of famous people. There's then plenty of dead people, fictional characters as well as local influences from colleagues to teachers to sports coaches etc.. And some of the above even spout right wing stuff too, they just don't advocate owning and beating women. I think if you believe there are a lack of male role models and that all male role models are being "cancelled" then that says more about you and the people you idolize than anything else. (I mean you as in generally speaking, not you personally) |
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jan 4, 2023 11:29:22 GMT
I'm not.sure who has said that lads are starved of role models because he is rightly no longer on the scene anymore, my own point is digging into the reason why people like him have risen so quickly amongst lads of a certain age - which is because of a lack of them in the first place. A time of better role model and influential figures for boys and ideally no social media would not put the likes of him on the rather large platform he had The thing is the tweet about the role models referenced two people who are pretty much nobodies in the UK. The only thing they both have in common is that they've got far right extremist views and make a living from spreading hate. Like there's loads of male role models; Marcus Rashford, Keanu Reeves, Mo Farah, Andy Murray, Anthony Joshua, Paddy Bimblett, Lionel Messi, Elon Musk, Chris Hemsworth, Idris Elba, Terry Crews. This is just a random array of famous people. There's then plenty of dead people, fictional characters as well as local influences from colleagues to teachers to sports coaches etc.. And some of the above even spout right wing stuff too, they just don't advocate owning and beating women. I think if you believe there are a lack of male role models and that all male role models are being "cancelled" then that says more about you and the people you idolize than anything else. (I mean you as in generally speaking, not you personally) I think that list of role models is highly questionable and probably re-emphasises the point at what a severe lack of role models men have. |
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jan 4, 2023 11:33:29 GMT
I think it's more worrying for any men in here who have daughters to be honest. If there are children out there looking up to a man who beats women and sees them as a possession then that is pretty worrying, and that would have me concerned about my daughters safety. I also think some people are misunderstanding the definition of role model too. Role Model - A role model is a person whose behaviour, example, or success is or can be emulated by others, especially by younger people. Do you believe someone like Andrew Tate fits the above definition? I don't. Of course I don't believe Tate is a role model, Christ on a bike. I don't really get some of these posts labelling others trying to debate how this has all come about as fans of the man. You have to ask how he amassed such a following and how he can be seen as this figure to them and I stand by my point, he has simply filled a void that nobody else is. If I think about another post on here - apparently boys should be looking at their fathers and families for role models. Well I would say in this case that all of the families of the lads that followed the man have clearly failed them in the role model department if the only person in their lives with such a meaning is him. If there was someone that represented the young lads with such a platform as Tate that stood for everything that's good about being a young lad and a man and how to conduct oneself in the modern world - the likes of Tate would not have the space to fester. Who is to say that he's the only role model available to turn to in their lives? I'd be amazed if that was the case. It's a big leap for some on here to claim that. I suspect a lot of the attention he gets is down to perceived 'entertainment', a rather more unpleasant and misogynistic take on the lad culture that prevailed in the 90s. It's 'funny' to hear somebody saying this kind of stuff on social media. Sadly, some will take it all too seriously. Not least the advertisers who have no doubt made Tate a wealthy individual. But, as I said previously, if it's impossible to find male role models without turning to social media, it strengthens the argument for investing more in family support services, youth services, and all the other initiatives we're currently cutting back on as a nation that would help young people to grow up into rounded human beings who are more likely to ignore people like Tate rather than idolise him. |
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Jan 4, 2023 11:34:54 GMT
I think it's more worrying for any men in here who have daughters to be honest. If there are children out there looking up to a man who beats women and sees them as a possession then that is pretty worrying, and that would have me concerned about my daughters safety. I also think some people are misunderstanding the definition of role model too. Role Model - A role model is a person whose behaviour, example, or success is or can be emulated by others, especially by younger people. Do you believe someone like Andrew Tate fits the above definition? I don't. Of course I don't believe Tate is a role model, Christ on a bike. I don't really get some of these posts labelling others trying to debate how this has all come about as fans of the man. You have to ask how he amassed such a following and how he can be seen as this figure to them and I stand by my point, he has simply filled a void that nobody else is. If I think about another post on here - apparently boys should be looking at their fathers and families for role models. Well I would say in this case that all of the families of the lads that followed the man have clearly failed them in the role model department if the only person in their lives with such a meaning is him. If there was someone that represented the young lads with such a platform as Tate that stood for everything that's good about being a young lad and a man and how to conduct oneself in the modern world - the likes of Tate would not have the space to fester. I think some on here are vastly overestimating their popularity and following though. As well as making assumptions that all the views or followers they have are from people which look up to them which isn't the case. To highlight just how much of a z lister these blokes are. Have you ever heard of khabane lame? I assume not. He's got the most viewed account on TikTok. So that pretty much proves that TikTok views doesn't mean "huge celebrity everyone follows or looks up to". Andrew Tate is just a small fish in a huge ocean and won't be remembered in 12 months time. The algorithms used particularly in TikTok also vastly increase the amount of views videos get because rather than searching for a video such as in YouTube. It just keeps throwing stuff at you and playing them automatically meaning the decision is largely out of the users hand and more so related to which video the algorithms believe may peak your interest. I think if you polled people in the UK 3 months or 6 months ago. I'd say a large majority of young men would know very little about Andrew Tate or that other randomer. And Andrew Tate will only be a bit better known now due to his crimes. Not his influence. |
|
|
|
Post by elystokie on Jan 4, 2023 11:48:46 GMT
They should put 'Happy Days' on the BBC on loop, all the role models any young man needs are on there, Howard Cunningham is a bastion of common sense and decency (Leopard Lodge antics aside) and if everybody had Richie's conscience the world would be a better place. Granted the relationships between The Fonz and his various female friends hasn't aged too well...  |
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Jan 4, 2023 12:08:29 GMT
About 80 years ago a Chap with a funny moustache preached a Doctrine of Race Selection not too dissimilar to what you are advocating now. He singled out for harsh treatment people that weren't clones of his idealistic view of how people should look and behave in a Homogeneous Society and he blamed those people that didn't "fit" his Stereotype for all the ills of Society It was a Meritocracy of people based on his selection criteria, it didn't end well. Jesus mate. How do you expect anyone to debate with you or take your posts seriously when you're repeatedly putting out that kind of stuff? Surely you've got more about you. Shock horror - Wannabe immediately refers to Hitler at the sight of posters standing up for men 🤦♂️ You know what the man with a moustache did support? The banning and total censorship of alternative views. In your posts you are literally championing the Pale Stale Male (and probably young) a majority cohort among their peers who have never had to suffer an iota of discrimination worthy of the name in their life and have always and still do enjoy a hegemony position Without a whiff of self awareness you chide MSM for "over emphasising" - providing a platform/voice for heretofore ignored minority groups (you've listed them) and you seek to deplatform them because this is creating a dearth of Role Models in your Preferred Group. Poppycock |
|
|
|
Post by foster on Jan 4, 2023 12:09:55 GMT
They should put 'Happy Days' on the BBC on loop, all the role models any young man needs are on there, Howard Cunningham is a bastion of common sense and decency (Leopard Lodge antics aside) and if everybody had Richie's conscience the world would be a better place. Granted the relationships between The Fonz and his various female friends hasn't aged too well... Speak for yourself mate. Ayyyyyyyyyy |
|
|
|
Post by superjw on Jan 4, 2023 12:10:26 GMT
Of course I don't believe Tate is a role model, Christ on a bike. I don't really get some of these posts labelling others trying to debate how this has all come about as fans of the man. You have to ask how he amassed such a following and how he can be seen as this figure to them and I stand by my point, he has simply filled a void that nobody else is. If I think about another post on here - apparently boys should be looking at their fathers and families for role models. Well I would say in this case that all of the families of the lads that followed the man have clearly failed them in the role model department if the only person in their lives with such a meaning is him. If there was someone that represented the young lads with such a platform as Tate that stood for everything that's good about being a young lad and a man and how to conduct oneself in the modern world - the likes of Tate would not have the space to fester. I think some on here are vastly overestimating their popularity and following though. As well as making assumptions that all the views or followers they have are from people which look up to them which isn't the case. To highlight just how much of a z lister these blokes are. Have you ever heard of khabane lame? I assume not. He's got the most viewed account on TikTok. So that pretty much proves that TikTok views doesn't mean "huge celebrity everyone follows or looks up to". Andrew Tate is just a small fish in a huge ocean and won't be remembered in 12 months time. The algorithms used particularly in TikTok also vastly increase the amount of views videos get because rather than searching for a video such as in YouTube. It just keeps throwing stuff at you and playing them automatically meaning the decision is largely out of the users hand and more so related to which video the algorithms believe may peak your interest. I think if you polled people in the UK 3 months or 6 months ago. I'd say a large majority of young men would know very little about Andrew Tate or that other randomer. And Andrew Tate will only be a bit better known now due to his crimes. Not his influence. I would agree that not all of his followers would go as far as looking up to him, but it's fair to say a proportion would have and still do, how big a proportion is unknown really. Equally, for me if you go to the trouble of actually following someone such as him that shares such extreme views, never mind signing up for his dodgy pyramid scheme - you at a minimum resonate with some of all of it. Going to the trouble of actually following someone who shares the stuff he has for entertainment is just plain strange, how someone takes that as just entertainment is beyond me given the subject matters he posts about. Vastly different to following actual entertainment content. So again, he may be some Z Lister but with a sizeable presence nonetheless and it's right to question what or who has influenced the lives of the mostly young lads that leads them to at least go to the trouble of following him, when he shares such extreme views that shouldn't be anywhere near them. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2023 13:29:11 GMT
The focus away from young men and in many cases, the all out assault on men in recent years, driven by the privileged pyjama classes is very sad. If the propaganda machine at institutions like the BBC, Sky and much of the corporate world focussed as much on developing young male talent as they do on trying to display their vomit worthy levels of virtue by prioritising the likes of the trans community and pseudo feminism - We'd be in a much stronger place. Men are facing huge challenges in modern day society and the more young males are neglected, the more they'll turn to extremism and potentially dangerous role models. The time has come for men to fight back, ideally not via Andrew Tate and the like. I feel sorry that you and your fellow "likers" are attracted to such diverse characters as Tate and Peterson as role models and use their thoughts as a coping mechanism from what you see as an assault on your masculinity in your daily lives You don't have to "love" everyone or indeed embrace others lifestyles just at worst ignore, but at least be respectful and accept difference, you'll be much more fulfilled I can understand your confusion where first your traditional view of Genders was challenged and God forbid Males and Females were deemed to be equal but now their is a whole Alphabet of Pronouns to contend with, it must indeed be distressing I’m aware that I’ve had a horror show already in this thread by defending Tate ignorantly, and then being shown quotes that I find despicable and realising he is dangerous and that I was foolish to even attempt to defend him. Buuut… Jordan Peterson and Tate are not the same. Not even close. It’s inappropriate to compare them IMO. (James O Brian did it on his program yesterday) |
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Jan 4, 2023 16:19:50 GMT
I feel sorry that you and your fellow "likers" are attracted to such diverse characters as Tate and Peterson as role models and use their thoughts as a coping mechanism from what you see as an assault on your masculinity in your daily lives You don't have to "love" everyone or indeed embrace others lifestyles just at worst ignore, but at least be respectful and accept difference, you'll be much more fulfilled I can understand your confusion where first your traditional view of Genders was challenged and God forbid Males and Females were deemed to be equal but now their is a whole Alphabet of Pronouns to contend with, it must indeed be distressing I’m aware that I’ve had a horror show already in this thread by defending Tate ignorantly, and then being shown quotes that I find despicable and realising he is dangerous and that I was foolish to even attempt to defend him. Buuut… Jordan Peterson and Tate are not the same. Not even close. It’s inappropriate to compare them IMO. (James O Brian did it on his program yesterday) I replied to a Tweet which contained both Tate and Peterson in the same sentence My response was they were both "diverse" which means unlike in character which I think you agree with as do I. For better clarity in Petersons case I probably should have said "divisive" Some of his more divisive views are 1. As a Canadian he has spoken out against the Canadian Human Rights Act being amended to include "Gender Identity and Expression " as prohibited grounds for Discrimination In the same Act prohibition based on Race, Ethnic Origin or other identities were similarly passed into Law as grounds for Discrimination He has not commented on these so it's a matter of conjecture if he thinks only Trans people should not be afforded protection under Law 2. He refutes the concept of "White Privilege" and says that its merely "Majority Privilege" which is normal as White People founded North America and as White People are in the Majority it is by necessaty that Society would be ordered in their favour Of course this overlooks three important issues a) how the Land in North America was acquired b) how a large proportion of the Population, Black People, ended up being in North America and c) Latino and Hispanic People are White but he doesn't bestow the same "White Privilege " on these Peoples 3. He believes the #MeToo Movement is misguided as he believes there are only "A few Bad Apples" He draws a clear distinction between Intent and Consequences and believes many are being Prosecuted for the Consequences of their Actions rather than their Intent. Its hard to see how Consent comes into his thinking 4. Peterson believes Scientists are deliberately Skewing the Data on Climate Change In common with most of his stances he claims to be non Political which is laughable considering the subjects he comments on. On Climate Change for instance he refuses to say whether he believes in Climate Change or if it is Man Made. You may well agree with him on his stances on the four items above, I don't, but you must accept that his views are divisive |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2023 17:33:42 GMT
I’m aware that I’ve had a horror show already in this thread by defending Tate ignorantly, and then being shown quotes that I find despicable and realising he is dangerous and that I was foolish to even attempt to defend him. Buuut… Jordan Peterson and Tate are not the same. Not even close. It’s inappropriate to compare them IMO. (James O Brian did it on his program yesterday) I replied to a Tweet which contained both Tate and Peterson in the same sentence My response was they were both "diverse" which means unlike in character which I think you agree with as do I. For better clarity in Petersons case I probably should have said "divisive" Some of his more divisive views are 1. As a Canadian he has spoken out against the Canadian Human Rights Act being amended to include "Gender Identity and Expression " as prohibited grounds for Discrimination In the same Act prohibition based on Race, Ethnic Origin or other identities were similarly passed into Law as grounds for Discrimination He has not commented on these so it's a matter of conjecture if he thinks only Trans people should not be afforded protection under Law 2. He refutes the concept of "White Privilege" and says that its merely "Majority Privilege" which is normal as White People founded North America and as White People are in the Majority it is by necessaty that Society would be ordered in their favour Of course this overlooks three important issues a) how the Land in North America was acquired b) how a large proportion of the Population, Black People, ended up being in North America and c) Latino and Hispanic People are White but he doesn't bestow the same "White Privilege " on these Peoples 3. He believes the #MeToo Movement is misguided as he believes there are only "A few Bad Apples" He draws a clear distinction between Intent and Consequences and believes many are being Prosecuted for the Consequences of their Actions rather than their Intent. Its hard to see how Consent comes into his thinking 4. Peterson believes Scientists are deliberately Skewing the Data on Climate Change In common with most of his stances he claims to be non Political which is laughable considering the subjects he comments on. On Climate Change for instance he refuses to say whether he believes in Climate Change or if it is Man Made. You may well agree with him on his stances on the four items above, I don't, but you must accept that his views are divisive Fair enough. He’s quite obviously divisive as a lot of people call him “dangerous” and have a strong dislike. I think it’s a severe mischaracterisation that people view him as “dangerous”. Eg JOB on LBC yesterday lumped them together (Tate/Peterson) as dangerous misogynists who appeal to sad lonely “teenagers of all ages” (he clarified the teenagers part to mean men of all ages who are juvenile) I don’t think it’s fair at all. There are plenty of people on the opposing side of the spectrum to Peterson who have expressed bewilderment at his vilification. JOB is as sharp as they come (one of the few interviewers I’ve seen who has pinned farage to the ground) but then the danger is that, by categorising all these figures as alt-right poster boys, the potency of necessarily warning against true monsters becomes lost in the fog. |
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Jan 10, 2023 20:36:51 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by metalhead on Jan 10, 2023 20:55:10 GMT
I honestly can't believe the direction this thread has went in. It's absolutely bizarre. We have a man arrested for human trafficking and rape who has a long history of being misogynist with many quotes in this thread of drivel coming from his mouth. We have his supporters making posts saying he probably isn't a good role model, that he deliberatley provokes people and that he makes alot of bad points. But at the same time saying that men are now starved of role models because a misogynist bully who is accused of VERY SERIOUS crimes has been arrested, and suggesting that once again it's all a conspiracy. Like seriously? :lol: I presume Tommy Robinson is another one of these "role models" that young men should be looking up to which has been cancelled by the media lol? Even more funny is that some of the people liking these posts about him being this brilliant role model were calling him a complete tool 4 pages earlier. Which one is it? I actually couldn't agree more with what you're saying. The guy is an awful misogynistic cunt and there's a part of me that secretly hopes that he goes down, although for him to go down, he must have hurt many people so that in itself isn't a good thing. HOWEVER, he is innocent until proven guilty. We have to get away from the current mentality of assuming guilt before innocence when it comes to the more 'taboo' crimes. Ched Evans basically lost the best years of his career off the back of a case thinner than the majority of supermarket ice cream wafers.... yet it was backed by a ferocious media. It should have been thrown out and re-scheduled as there was no realistic prospect of a fair trial, however it was clear that the limp-dick court was starstruck and with the BBC (in particular) baying for blood, it was only a matter of time before an innocent man got sent down. This was 6 months before Jimmy Savile shagging thousands of kids came out and the BBC fucked off to where it belongs. So, going back to it. Tate? Evil. Horrible human.... but until he's found guilty, we have to give the process a chance to at least run its course. Andrew Tate? Tommy Robinson? Role models? For whom? Neo-Nazi's? Or just fucking idiots? |
|
|
|
Post by metalhead on Jan 10, 2023 20:55:38 GMT
That alone, in fairness, demonstrates they've got something. I'm keen to see where this goes. |
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 13, 2023 15:00:42 GMT
|
|
