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Post by pushon on Jul 19, 2022 0:35:20 GMT
And the Man at the back said "Everyone Attack" and it turned into a ballroom blitz! Sweet
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jul 19, 2022 9:33:39 GMT
Opinions you say? But resort to shit like that when someone doesn't agree with yours. I know abuse most foul ffs get a life it’s all opinions, get the sand out of your vagina. Practice what you preach then.
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Post by skip on Jul 19, 2022 9:44:06 GMT
"Papa don't preach, we're in trouble deep, Papa don't preach...just give us a striker, ooh, we need a striker..."
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jul 19, 2022 9:52:10 GMT
I know abuse most foul ffs get a life it’s all opinions, get the sand out of your vagina. Practice what you preach then. As in what? It’s obviously not opinion that attacking football simply doesn’t work, it’s to be in denial of the facts. Opinion is you prefer attacking or defensive orientated football. I’m pretty sure the person who I called a prat made a tongue in cheek comment agreeing with my tongue in cheek comment that attacking football just doesn’t work then. Calling him a prat wasn’t meant or taken offensively until you poked your nose in.
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Post by iglugluk on Jul 19, 2022 10:03:10 GMT
It’s all well and good saying attacking football will make us successful, but to do it properly you need the right players. And the right players cost money - we don’t have enough money to put a squad together than can do it in my opinion. The manager is being pragmatic. You could could have said that when O'Neill arrived but after the settling in period it was attacking that turned that season around. He then decided to become cautious and we've had 2 disappointing seasons subsequently. Most of that was manager mindset not players on the roster at the time as far as I can tell.
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Post by NassauDave on Jul 19, 2022 10:32:01 GMT
And the Man at the back said "Everyone Attack" and it turned into a ballroom blitz! Sweet idea.
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Post by zommbee on Jul 19, 2022 12:45:57 GMT
Five years ago , the year we went down, Wolves won the championship with attacking football under nuno Santos Then Daniel farke's Norwich won the league playing attacking football Then Marcelo biesla's Leeds won the championship with high energy attacking football Then Daniel Farke's Norwich with attacking football Then De Silva's Fulham with attacking football I don't recall anyone winning the championship with MoN style negative football for a long time You wont recall anyone winning the championship with negative football because it has never happened, some teams have won promotion though with the pragmatic approach of not conceding goals first and then attacking with intent. Wolves in 18 had the joint best defensive record along with Cardiff, promoted in second place. Norwich in 19 fantastic going forward, 93 goals, best defensive record, Sheffield United, promoted in second place. Leeds in 20, the best attack and defence that season, WBA the second best attack and defence, promoted in second place. Norwich in 21, still good going forward tighter in defence, 75-36 goals, Watford conceded 30 finishing in second place. Fulham in 22, 106 goals, incredible, Bournemouth promoted in second had the best defensive record. Now none of those second placed promoted teams could be said to be negative but most if not all sorted their defence out properly before getting forward. With regards to MON and his "style" it is not negative, it just seems that way because the positivity is miniscule, he has got to show more attacking intent particularly at home and also continue to try and make the defence better. At the moment we are far from being a top six team.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jul 19, 2022 13:15:01 GMT
Five years ago , the year we went down, Wolves won the championship with attacking football under nuno Santos Then Daniel farke's Norwich won the league playing attacking football Then Marcelo biesla's Leeds won the championship with high energy attacking football Then Daniel Farke's Norwich with attacking football Then De Silva's Fulham with attacking football I don't recall anyone winning the championship with MoN style negative football for a long time You wont recall anyone winning the championship with negative football because it has never happened, some teams have won promotion though with the pragmatic approach of not conceding goals first and then attacking with intent. Wolves in 18 had the joint best defensive record along with Cardiff, promoted in second place. Norwich in 19 fantastic going forward, 93 goals, best defensive record, Sheffield United, promoted in second place. Leeds in 20, the best attack and defence that season, WBA the second best attack and defence, promoted in second place. Norwich in 21, still good going forward tighter in defence, 75-36 goals, Watford conceded 30 finishing in second place. Fulham in 22, 106 goals, incredible, Bournemouth promoted in second had the best defensive record. Now none of those second placed promoted teams could be said to be negative but most if not all sorted their defence out properly before getting forward. With regards to MON and his "style" it is not negative, it just seems that way because the positivity is miniscule, he has got to show more attacking intent particularly at home and also continue to try and make the defence better. At the moment we are far from being a top six team. Not sure your examples prove that those teams were safety first sort of teams certainly not my recollection of many of them. You can simply concede less goals by being on the front foot so much. Take the example of a Stoke side in the Prem the season Wollescheid was one of our two mainstay CB’s. We conceded less goals than we had done in all our prior Prem seasons where almost to a man our fans would tell you we had a far superior defence. I’d say MON prioritises defence over attack and the teams you used as examples prioritised attack over defence and in fact can’t remember the last automatically promoted team to the Prem that was priority defensive. We’re talking about the balance of a side and prioritising one thing doesn’t mean neglecting or being rubbish at the other end.
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Post by Not_Nick_H on Jul 19, 2022 16:38:55 GMT
I read the thread title in the voice of that old geezer* (Vale fan) they used to use in the Praise and Grumble intro each week . He was a P&G regular - not sure if he's still around. * " 'owd mon" - to be accurate.
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Post by chad on Jul 19, 2022 18:14:14 GMT
Didn't Nello once say something about making sure you score more than the opposition during a half-time team talk?! Perhaps he could arrange a meeting with MON for some advice-swapping! He’d make a better manager
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 19, 2022 21:53:52 GMT
It’s all well and good saying attacking football will make us successful, but to do it properly you need the right players. And the right players cost money - we don’t have enough money to put a squad together than can do it in my opinion. The manager is being pragmatic. You don’t need lots of money to do well in the Championship. Good managers put together good teams all the time on a budget. Or at least half-decent ones, which is really all you need to be to get in the playoffs.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 19, 2022 21:56:21 GMT
He got us attacking when he fist joined and then shat himself for no good reason.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jul 19, 2022 22:13:31 GMT
He got us attacking when he fist joined and then shat himself for no good reason. So what’s the surprise? What he did when he came in or what’s come since. Barring that blip he’s proved exactly what I expected we’re Northern Ireland.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jul 19, 2022 23:40:36 GMT
He got us attacking when he fist joined and then shat himself for no good reason. So what’s the surprise? What he did when he came in or what’s come since. Barring that blip he’s proved exactly what I expected we’re Northern Ireland. We would struggle to beat N/Ireland's women.
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Post by callas12 on Jul 19, 2022 23:45:15 GMT
It’s all well and good saying attacking football will make us successful, but to do it properly you need the right players. And the right players cost money - we don’t have enough money to put a squad together than can do it in my opinion. The manager is being pragmatic. You don’t need lots of money to do well in the Championship. Good managers put together good teams all the time on a budget. Or at least half-decent ones, which is really all you need to be to get in the playoffs. Steve Cooper at Forest prime example of this. Hughton couldn't get a tune out of squad, Cooper came in and did it straight away, shows it can be done.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 20, 2022 0:05:00 GMT
He got us attacking when he fist joined and then shat himself for no good reason. So what’s the surprise? What he did when he came in or what’s come since. Barring that blip he’s proved exactly what I expected we’re Northern Ireland. Exactly this, I don't think he shat himself I think he reverted to type, he tried this crap when he first turned up and quickly realised it wouldn't work.
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 20, 2022 7:57:23 GMT
You don’t need lots of money to do well in the Championship. Good managers put together good teams all the time on a budget. Or at least half-decent ones, which is really all you need to be to get in the playoffs. Steve Cooper at Forest prime example of this. Hughton couldn't get a tune out of squad, Cooper came in and did it straight away, shows it can be done. As it happens our own manager is a prime example of that as well
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Post by callas12 on Jul 20, 2022 9:33:30 GMT
Steve Cooper at Forest prime example of this. Hughton couldn't get a tune out of squad, Cooper came in and did it straight away, shows it can be done. As it happens our own manager is a prime example of that as well Good point..
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Post by ColonelMustard on Jul 20, 2022 12:56:32 GMT
It’s all well and good saying attacking football will make us successful, but to do it properly you need the right players. And the right players cost money - we don’t have enough money to put a squad together than can do it in my opinion. The manager is being pragmatic. It wouldn’t be much different if we were able to spend the Scrooge McDuck swimming pool of money we’ve got. Why do you think this Rob? You dont think we'd be shopping totally differently? They threw money at it when we were getting parachute payments. We just bought shite and changed managers.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 20, 2022 13:09:13 GMT
It wouldn’t be much different if we were able to spend the Scrooge McDuck swimming pool of money we’ve got. Why do you think this Rob? You dont think we'd be shopping totally differently? They threw money at it when we were getting parachute payments. We just bought shite and changed managers. I meant in terms of the manager's approach, Colonel. Managers very rarely change their spots. TP claimed when he was feeling the heat in his last season that if he had Bale and Ronaldo he'd set up differently, but even after his fabled 'dossier' he set up basically the same way everywhere else he went, and he's hardly alone in that. Give MON the GDP of Malta to spend and he'd still be a fundamentally cautious manager with an innate ability to balls things up with his in-game decisions.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Jul 20, 2022 13:20:14 GMT
Why do you think this Rob? You dont think we'd be shopping totally differently? They threw money at it when we were getting parachute payments. We just bought shite and changed managers. I meant in terms of the manager's approach, Colonel. Managers very rarely change their spots. TP claimed when he was feeling the heat in his last season that if he had Bale and Ronaldo he'd set up differently, but even after his fabled 'dossier' he set up basically the same way everywhere else he went, and he's hardly alone in that. Give MON the GDP of Malta to spend and he'd still be a fundamentally cautious manager with an innate ability to balls things up with his in-game decisions. Gotcha. Yes his response to any kind of stimulus is conservative. Ive got more desire not to change than most but completely understand those well out of patience.
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Post by tachyon on Jul 20, 2022 16:35:35 GMT
Steve Cooper at Forest prime example of this. Hughton couldn't get a tune out of squad, Cooper came in and did it straight away, shows it can be done. Here's NF's rolling xG from the start of 2020/21 to the end of 2021/22. Cooper came in after 8 games of 2021/22 and nothing really changed, process-wise until around mid season, but he had made a couple of significant changes. He scrapped the preferred 4 at the back for a three, but he also overhauled the 2020/21 squad. Those players still around from the previous year only played 60% of the available minutes in 2021/22 under Cooper. So 40% of the 2021/22 minutes went to "new" players. Brennan Johnson was a huge bonus. Didn't play in 2020/21 for Forest (he was at Lincoln). But his 0.33 xG/90 was top end rates and he outscored that by a huge 37%. Cooper then got in two top end Championship strikers, as well. Keinan Davis (only 0.28 xG/90, but he was also a hot finisher) and Sam Surridge (0.73 xG/90, which is huge)!. Those three players spiked the scoring rate in the second half of the season and the xG allowed remained fairly steady at arounfd 1.2 xG/90. They also had two really good keepers, who reduced the goals allowed even more. I've no doubt there was a plan, but alot of moving parts came good, as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2022 16:47:48 GMT
Interesting, forests season
Would be interested to know Sam surrige's opinion of the ease or difficulty, of playing in attack for MoN's Stoke city
2 in 20 for Stoke Then in the same season 7 in 17 ( 17 appearances not starts ) for forest and improving with every game
Finished the season for Steve cooper looking a proper championship striker . Absolutely hopeless in a MoN team
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Post by mtrstudent on Jul 20, 2022 18:54:59 GMT
Interesting, forests season Would be interested to know Sam surrige's opinion of the ease or difficulty, of playing in attack for MoN's Stoke city 2 in 20 for Stoke Then in the same season 7 in 17 ( 17 appearances not starts ) for forest and improving with every game Finished the season for Steve cooper looking a proper championship striker . Absolutely hopeless in a MoN team Gives a bit of confidence in his stats like tachyon gave us when he arrived. We didn't set up for him really and I think his confidence took a blow after a series of misses too.
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Post by AlliG on Jul 20, 2022 19:43:44 GMT
Interesting, forests season Would be interested to know Sam surrige's opinion of the ease or difficulty, of playing in attack for MoN's Stoke city 2 in 20 for Stoke Then in the same season 7 in 17 ( 17 appearances not starts ) for forest and improving with every game Finished the season for Steve cooper looking a proper championship striker . Absolutely hopeless in a MoN team He was very good at scoring the 4th goal in a 4-0 win. His problem at Stoke was that we were never 3-0 up.
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