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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 1, 2022 14:02:45 GMT
It's only teamtalk. Plans aren't worth anything with eight 90 minutes of football to be played He could be safe as houses in a month, or his position could be pretty untenable, as Rob says I can't see how he could survive without the fig leaf of at least 3 wins to see the season out, regardless of what they'd like to do in a perfect world I think the silence has spoken volumes FM. I just don't see them sacking him any time soon. Their eggs are in this basket and they don't have another one. I'm sure they're desperate to keep MON - but they were with Jones too. Coming off our form since October, and particularly January, there's no way he could survive 8 losses to see the season out, though, is there? And if you accept that as a starting point, there must be a set of results short of that that leaves him in a vulnerable grey zone, particularly with the fan feeling that would accompany the continuation of that run to see the season out I think maybe 10-11 more points would be enough for them to tough out any disquiet. Any more than that, and we can all look forward to next season with more optimism - but anything short of 10-11 more points and I'm not sure they could keep him, coming off this long 6-7 months of near-relegation form for the second successive season
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Post by wuzza on Apr 1, 2022 14:04:48 GMT
It's only teamtalk. Plans aren't worth anything with eight 90 minutes of football to be played He could be safe as houses in a month, or his position could be pretty untenable, as Rob says I can't see how he could survive without the fig leaf of at least 3 wins to see the season out, regardless of what they'd like to do in a perfect world I think we all know he's going nowhere in reality. He could lose every game from now until the end of the season and I still don't think he'll go. I’m sure this is the truth and hopefully he knows it so he won’t be afraid to try out some fresh approaches and younger players in the last few games.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 1, 2022 14:15:23 GMT
It's only teamtalk. Plans aren't worth anything with eight 90 minutes of football to be played He could be safe as houses in a month, or his position could be pretty untenable, as Rob says I can't see how he could survive without the fig leaf of at least 3 wins to see the season out, regardless of what they'd like to do in a perfect world I think we all know he's going nowhere in reality. He could lose every game from now until the end of the season and I still don't think he'll go. In the real world, if that happens, he's gone after four, max. I know you don't think the fans are at turning point but if results don't improve I think it'll be a couple of games before you're disabused of that notion sharpish.
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Post by theonlooker on Apr 1, 2022 14:38:04 GMT
I think we all know he's going nowhere in reality. He could lose every game from now until the end of the season and I still don't think he'll go. I know you've nailed your colours to the mast, but I genuinely think that's a massive leap. I'm eager for MON to show us what he's got in the remaining 8 games - but I don't think his position would be at all tenable without at least three wins and a flicker of good form. These last 8 games won't be played out in a vacuum. And while he's got the chance to really turn things around with 4 or 5 wins and a good run of form, another 8 games of bad form and he can really dig himself a hole that'll make it impossible for the board to keep him, however much they want to I secretly thought they might do something in the international break. Thinking it through logically, we had the Farke et al noise, we'd been on a bad run and we'd just won. From an owners perspective almost perfect timing. Manager goes out on a win and an international break goes some way to quell the white noise, and we have the rest of the season to take stock. I might be a million miles away from the truth but the vibe I'm picking up is one of they won't twist come what may.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 1, 2022 14:51:01 GMT
If 'come what may' means constant booing of the team after we concede, prolonged choruses from three sides of the ground of "your football is shit" and "sacked in the morning", people streaming out of the ground early, then that isn't just embarrassing for the owners of Stoke City, it's embarrassing for the owners of Bet365...
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Apr 1, 2022 15:02:24 GMT
Press Conference: Sheffield United
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 1, 2022 15:03:37 GMT
Would be interesting to know what he thinks there is to play for. 3 points Pride To generate some hope if possible To give some young players an opportunity Agree with all of this, + his job, + their jobs. A good final eight games may be the difference between contract renewal and not for some on the boundaries. At the very minimum, for those that are negotiating, a better performance would put them in a better position to barter.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Apr 1, 2022 15:19:52 GMT
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Post by GoBoks on Apr 1, 2022 15:21:15 GMT
Oops! I must have clicked on the O'Neill Out thread by mistake. I thought this was the "Team News" thread.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Apr 1, 2022 15:43:04 GMT
"We want to finish as high as we can. That is the objective for the squad and us all"
15th it is then!!!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2022 15:43:50 GMT
I think the silence has spoken volumes FM. I just don't see them sacking him any time soon. Their eggs are in this basket and they don't have another one. I'm sure they're desperate to keep MON - but they were with Jones too. Coming off our form since October, and particularly January, there's no way he could survive 8 losses to see the season out, though, is there? And if you accept that as a starting point, there must be a set of results short of that that leaves him in a vulnerable grey zone, particularly with the fan feeling that would accompany the continuation of that run to see the season out I think maybe 10-11 more points would be enough for them to tough out any disquiet. Any more than that, and we can all look forward to next season with more optimism - but anything short of 10-11 more points and I'm not sure they could keep him, coming off this long 6-7 months of near-relegation form for the second successive season I just don't see it with this lot in charge unless it got particularly nasty in the stadium. They're reactive with stuff like that. I can't imagine season ticket sales are doing him a favour either but again I don't think that's a real issue.
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Post by thevoid on Apr 1, 2022 15:52:20 GMT
It's only teamtalk. Plans aren't worth anything with eight 90 minutes of football to be played He could be safe as houses in a month, or his position could be pretty untenable, as Rob says I can't see how he could survive without the fig leaf of at least 3 wins to see the season out, regardless of what they'd like to do in a perfect world I think we all know he's going nowhere in reality. He could lose every game from now until the end of the season and I still don't think he'll go. Quite a leap of faith there- eight straight league defeats would see most managers removed and would mean we'd have won 4 from 28! But we won't lose all our games anyway so it's a strawman
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Post by jokker on Apr 1, 2022 16:00:00 GMT
Would be interesting to know what he thinks there is to play for. 3 points Pride To generate some hope if possible To give some young players an opportunity And to start/continue momentum by winning matches to carry on onto next season.
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Post by jokker on Apr 1, 2022 16:04:36 GMT
As Fuller rightly points out, it's from Teamtalk. If Percy came out and said it, it would be taken as read, as far as I am aware he hasn't said anything either way. I agree, if results between now and the end of the season are good, he's fine, if they aren't, they will have a decision. I can't believe they are happy after January's incomings and again a fall away in results.. Of course they are not "happy" after January, but if they are otherwise happy with the overall way the club is run that will still count heavily.
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Post by jokker on Apr 1, 2022 16:07:30 GMT
It's still a very changeable situation though isn't it? He's two limp defeats away from being on the verge whatever the owners might want to do in ideal circumstances. No. He is safe unless some disaster happens.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 1, 2022 16:09:15 GMT
It's still a very changeable situation though isn't it? He's two limp defeats away from being on the verge whatever the owners might want to do in ideal circumstances. If we have a disastrous end of season all bets are off but I really can't see 2 bad results having a practical effect on any decision to stick with O'Neill. There will be a meltdown on here but no sane person takes anything said on here as of any consequence. The owners instincts have always leant towards being loyal and after the disaster of 4 managers in 2 years I suspect those instincts are stronger than ever. I think they also recognise just how tough a job O'Neill has been given and in terms of FFP he's delivered everything he's been asked to deliver - if anything over delivering at Xmas has contributed to our drop in form. I really think bar a hideous finish O'Neill will be there at the start of next season. Cue vote of confidence announcement...
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 1, 2022 16:10:20 GMT
It's still a very changeable situation though isn't it? He's two limp defeats away from being on the verge whatever the owners might want to do in ideal circumstances. If we have a disastrous end of season all bets are off but I really can't see 2 bad results having a practical effect on any decision to stick with O'Neill. There will be a meltdown on here but no sane person takes anything said on here as of any consequence. The owners instincts have always leant towards being loyal and after the disaster of 4 managers in 2 years I suspect those instincts are stronger than ever. I think they also recognise just how tough a job O'Neill has been given and in terms of FFP he's delivered everything he's been asked to deliver - if anything over delivering at Xmas has contributed to our drop in form. I really think bar a hideous finish O'Neill will be there at the end of next season. Cue vote of confidence announcement... What's said on here will make no difference, I agree. Two more limp home defeats though and the meltdowns won't just be happening on here.
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Post by heworksardtho on Apr 1, 2022 16:10:47 GMT
Jon fiddles while we sink slowly down the league , ONearly is not the man to take us forward
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 1, 2022 16:11:01 GMT
It's still a very changeable situation though isn't it? He's two limp defeats away from being on the verge whatever the owners might want to do in ideal circumstances. No. He is safe unless some disaster happens. No manager survives the fans turning on them.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 1, 2022 16:12:39 GMT
If we have a disastrous end of season all bets are off but I really can't see 2 bad results having a practical effect on any decision to stick with O'Neill. There will be a meltdown on here but no sane person takes anything said on here as of any consequence. The owners instincts have always leant towards being loyal and after the disaster of 4 managers in 2 years I suspect those instincts are stronger than ever. I think they also recognise just how tough a job O'Neill has been given and in terms of FFP he's delivered everything he's been asked to deliver - if anything over delivering at Xmas has contributed to our drop in form. I really think bar a hideous finish O'Neill will be there at the end of next season. Cue vote of confidence announcement... What's said on here will make no difference, I agree. Two more limp home defeats though and the meltdowns won't just be happening on here. True - but still don't see it making any difference.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 1, 2022 16:16:25 GMT
What's said on here will make no difference, I agree. Two more limp home defeats though and the meltdowns won't just be happening on here. True - but still don't see it making any difference. It always does. As I said previously, those optics - prolonged anti-manager chants, a toxic atmosphere, the ground emptying early, and subsequent affect on attendances - aren't just bad for the owners in terms of the club, they're bad for the 'brand' of Bet365. No manager survives once the turn happens.
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Post by theonlooker on Apr 1, 2022 16:17:52 GMT
It's still a very changeable situation though isn't it? He's two limp defeats away from being on the verge whatever the owners might want to do in ideal circumstances. If we have a disastrous end of season all bets are off but I really can't see 2 bad results having a practical effect on any decision to stick with O'Neill. There will be a meltdown on here but no sane person takes anything said on here as of any consequence. The owners instincts have always leant towards being loyal and after the disaster of 4 managers in 2 years I suspect those instincts are stronger than ever. I think they also recognise just how tough a job O'Neill has been given and in terms of FFP he's delivered everything he's been asked to deliver - if anything over delivering at Xmas has contributed to our drop in form. I really think bar a hideous finish O'Neill will be there at the start of next season. Cue vote of confidence announcement... Don't forget the very short off season turnaround coupled with the high volume of churn we'll have in the squad again, with contracts running out etc. That will weigh heavily on the owners minds also. Changing manager coupled with a high number of out of contract players and loan returns is a different type of risk that our owners definitely won't take, regardless of any Verruca Salt episodes in the stands.
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Post by jokker on Apr 1, 2022 16:24:51 GMT
I think the silence has spoken volumes FM. I just don't see them sacking him any time soon. Their eggs are in this basket and they don't have another one. I'm sure they're desperate to keep MON - but they were with Jones too. Coming off our form since October, and particularly January, there's no way he could survive 8 losses to see the season out, though, is there? And if you accept that as a starting point, there must be a set of results short of that that leaves him in a vulnerable grey zone, particularly with the fan feeling that would accompany the continuation of that run to see the season out I think maybe 10-11 more points would be enough for them to tough out any disquiet. Any more than that, and we can all look forward to next season with more optimism - but anything short of 10-11 more points and I'm not sure they could keep him, coming off this long 6-7 months of near-relegation form for the second successive season If we lost eight matches in the manner that we've lost other matches this season (except the whipping from Fulham), i.e. narrow one goal defeats with plausible excuses at hand, then the board being rational people wouldn't hold those results against him. If one other hand we lose 8 heavily with players getting themselves sent off and little effort made to set fight back, then we'll have entered that nasty territory where it might be suggested that the players were playing against the manager. Then we should probably sack the players, but as that is impossible given the nature of modern contracts, the manager would be the next to go. It could be said that there was some degree of such games and results under Jones, but I don't think we've seen any games where a whole team were guilty in this sense under O'Neill. We've had players like Ince, Surridge, and maybe other individuals who displayed a suspect attitude, but O'Neill has got rid of them to his credit. Of course an event can occur which will make players turn against a manager, but it just hasn't happened, as far as I know.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 1, 2022 16:36:57 GMT
If we have a disastrous end of season all bets are off but I really can't see 2 bad results having a practical effect on any decision to stick with O'Neill. There will be a meltdown on here but no sane person takes anything said on here as of any consequence. The owners instincts have always leant towards being loyal and after the disaster of 4 managers in 2 years I suspect those instincts are stronger than ever. I think they also recognise just how tough a job O'Neill has been given and in terms of FFP he's delivered everything he's been asked to deliver - if anything over delivering at Xmas has contributed to our drop in form. I really think bar a hideous finish O'Neill will be there at the start of next season. Cue vote of confidence announcement... Don't forget the very short off season turnaround coupled with the high volume of churn we'll have in the squad again, with contracts running out etc. That will weigh heavily on the owners minds also. Changing manager coupled with a high number of out of contract players and loan returns is a different type of risk that our owners definitely won't take, regardless of any Verruca Salt episodes in the stands. I'd say its more a positive for a new man than a negative, he'll have more space to implement his own style/system by being able to get the right players in, its not as if we'd be losing half a top six team.
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Post by theonlooker on Apr 1, 2022 16:40:52 GMT
Don't forget the very short off season turnaround coupled with the high volume of churn we'll have in the squad again, with contracts running out etc. That will weigh heavily on the owners minds also. Changing manager coupled with a high number of out of contract players and loan returns is a different type of risk that our owners definitely won't take, regardless of any Verruca Salt episodes in the stands. I'd say its more a positive for a new man than a negative, he'll have more space to implement his own style/system by being able to get the right players in, its not as if we'd be losing half a top six team. He'd have half the time to do it though, which is why if they were going to twist it was this last international break, to give a new man a chance to either plan at close quarters on the job or from a distance with caretakers at the coal face. By sticking now they've essentially committed to MON through the summer and into next season come what may, else they risk completely destabilising the club. During a normal summer I'd agree with your view.
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Post by jokker on Apr 1, 2022 16:42:15 GMT
No. He is safe unless some disaster happens. No manager survives the fans turning on them. I think you are overestimating the power of Stoke fans against the sturdy hand of the board. Possibly because there's a belief among a section of the fanbase that they got Rowett sacked. I don't think they did. Of course Rowett acted stupidly and did not have a friend in ST4 by the end of it. But it was the fight he started with the board which made them act. Now I don't claim to know the truth of this or for that matter much else. However this is what I believe in this matter. The board are overjoyed with the management of Michael O'Neill for reasons I've listed in other threads, so I'll spare you this time. What would be bad for the brand is if Stoke played in L1 next season. Any other storm can be weathered.
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Post by thevoid on Apr 1, 2022 16:43:01 GMT
I'm sure they're desperate to keep MON - but they were with Jones too. Coming off our form since October, and particularly January, there's no way he could survive 8 losses to see the season out, though, is there? And if you accept that as a starting point, there must be a set of results short of that that leaves him in a vulnerable grey zone, particularly with the fan feeling that would accompany the continuation of that run to see the season out I think maybe 10-11 more points would be enough for them to tough out any disquiet. Any more than that, and we can all look forward to next season with more optimism - but anything short of 10-11 more points and I'm not sure they could keep him, coming off this long 6-7 months of near-relegation form for the second successive season If we lost eight matches in the manner that we've lost other matches this season (except the whipping from Fulham), i.e. narrow one goal defeats with plausible excuses at hand, then the board being rational people wouldn't hold those results against him. If one other hand we lose 8 heavily with players getting themselves sent off and little effort made to set fight back, then we'll have entered that nasty territory where it might be suggested that the players were playing against the manager. Then we should probably sack the players, but as that is impossible given the nature of modern contracts, the manager would be the next to go. It could be said that there was some degree of such games and results under Jones, but I don't think we've seen any games where a whole team were guilty in this sense under O'Neill. We've had players like Ince, Surridge, and maybe other individuals who displayed a suspect attitude, but O'Neill has got rid of them to his credit. Of course an event can occur which will make players turn against a manager, but it just hasn't happened, as far as I know. So if we lost eight games 0-1 he'll be safe?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2022 16:46:36 GMT
ok that is sorted o Neil is manager next season.
Where is everyone going on their summer holiday?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 1, 2022 16:48:48 GMT
No manager survives the fans turning on them. I think you are overestimating the power of Stoke fans against the sturdy hand of the board. Possibly because there's a belief among a section of the fanbase that they got Rowett sacked. I don't think they did. Of course Rowett acted stupidly and did not have a friend in ST4 by the end of it. But it was the fight he started with the board which made them act. Now I don't claim to know the truth of this or for that matter much else. However this is what I believe in this matter. The board are overjoyed with the management of Michael O'Neill for reasons I've listed in other threads, so I'll spare you this time. What would be bad for the brand is if Stoke played in L1 next season. Any other storm can be weathered. No manager survives the fans turning on them. I think you are overestimating the power of Stoke fans against the sturdy hand of the board. Possibly because there's a belief among a section of the fanbase that they got Rowett sacked. I don't think they did. Of course Rowett acted stupidly and did not have a friend in ST4 by the end of it. But it was the fight he started with the board which made them act. Now I don't claim to know the truth of this or for that matter much else. However this is what I believe in this matter. The board are overjoyed with the management of Michael O'Neill for reasons I've listed in other threads, so I'll spare you this time. What would be bad for the brand is if Stoke played in L1 next season. Any other storm can be weathered. The timing of Rowett’s exit made it clear that it was the fans turning that meant the end for him. The ‘fight with the board’ is just gossip, don’t think there’s anything concrete and that supposedly happened (and I’m not convinced it did) at the start of the season. The Bolton and Bristol City games were what did for him. No manager survives it apart from maybe Steve Bruce at Newcastle, and our owners certainly aren’t as bloody minded as Mike Ashley. You can see it this season at other clubs. Benitez didn’t. Nuno didn’t.
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Post by Gods on Apr 1, 2022 17:04:12 GMT
Press Conference: Sheffield United About 6 weeks ago the started removing George Andrew's questions from the video at the end of the pre-match press conference along with that dude, 'Dave' is it?, who always used to get one question at the very end. I wonder, is this an editorial decision or do the other 2 just not pitch up anymore?
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