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Post by dirtclod on Feb 19, 2022 20:04:20 GMT
We are too inconsistent to try to guess our finishing position, so for my own sanity I've been concentrating on HOW we play from here on in.
If we're going to give goals away, the least we could do is attack more consistently, not in 10-minute frenzies. Have subs ready to sustain that attack. If we're up 3-0 then it's okay to go all defensive, but doing so with a 1-goal lead isn't going to get it done.
Agree that there are red flags with MON, agree on giving him the summer and I appreciate that he has improved so many things. Also agree that he's added a lot of value to our squad. But no, we can't be sitting in the bottom half next Christmas. I don't believe we will be, but time will tell.
MoN needs to go to a few coaching clinics in the offseason, go to Vegas, change whiskeys, jump the wife more often, whatever it takes to add flexibility to his approach. He looks like a man who cares to the point of beating himself down. He needs to counter it with some wild fun - just stay away from Rooney, he always gets caught. And in a nod to the nickname thread - to avoid the shipping of goals, we need a "Chainsaw" in the midfield. Someone to consistently ruin momentum of the enemy's buildup play.
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Post by nonameface on Feb 19, 2022 20:12:09 GMT
We are too inconsistent to try to guess our finishing position, so for my own sanity I've been concentrating on HOW we play from here on in. If we're going to give goals away, the least we could do is attack more consistently, not in 10-minute frenzies. Have subs ready to sustain that attack. If we're up 3-0 then it's okay to go all defensive, but doing so with a 1-goal lead isn't going to get it done. Agree that there are red flags with MON, agree on giving him the summer and I appreciate that he has improved so many things. Also agree that he's added a lot of value to our squad. But no, we can't be sitting in the bottom half next Christmas. I don't believe we will be, but time will tell. MoN needs to go to a few coaching clinics in the offseason, go to Vegas, change whiskeys, jump the wife more often, whatever it takes to add flexibility to his approach. He looks like a man who cares to the point of beating himself down. He needs to counter it with some wild fun - just stay away from Rooney, he always gets caught. And in a nod to the nickname thread - to avoid the shipping of goals, we need a "Chainsaw" in the midfield. Someone to consistently ruin momentum of the enemy's buildup play. jump the wife more often? what more than just birthdays? He does give the impression he needs a little bit more wild, but last thing we went is for it to go all Nathan Jones.. For me if we can get a decent ball playing cdm, as you say a chainsaw, in the summer or an equivalent to Baker and we are fortunate to only have average injuries we get to the play offs. With few injuries we could get automatic. Campbell before his injury was our best player, Souttar before his injury was our best player and Powell before his injury was our best player. Baker must be next. But proper spot on post.
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Post by somersetstokie on Feb 19, 2022 20:13:10 GMT
We're certainly going to take everybody by surprise when we make our late dramatic run for the play offs!
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Post by Ex-term-oat-cake on Feb 19, 2022 20:29:43 GMT
We know 3 points at home and a point away is what is required from here on. Maybe we will do it the other way round with our home form so patchy.
Nevertheless we have lost our best players to injury. Again. And so a finish around 8th might be reasonable when we might finish top 4 if they had all stayed fit.
So overall, we are OK and whilst we now have zero room for slip ups this season if we want playoffs, I think we look strong for next season. The work to improve must continue however because even if Fulham Bournemouth and Forest go up, next season we still have to compete with Norwich, Watford, Burnley, West Brom, QPR, Boro, Huddersfield and a couple more no doubt. The Championship has a lot of teams within 20% of each other. Stoke definitely are in the mix.
Yes we need a midfield enforcer but what a better position to be in now than 12 months ago when we clearly needed 4-5 key players.
And we will need to keep the loanees or find similar quality replacements if we are to keep going next season.
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Post by dirtclod on Feb 19, 2022 20:38:22 GMT
We are too inconsistent to try to guess our finishing position, so for my own sanity I've been concentrating on HOW we play from here on in. If we're going to give goals away, the least we could do is attack more consistently, not in 10-minute frenzies. Have subs ready to sustain that attack. If we're up 3-0 then it's okay to go all defensive, but doing so with a 1-goal lead isn't going to get it done. Agree that there are red flags with MON, agree on giving him the summer and I appreciate that he has improved so many things. Also agree that he's added a lot of value to our squad. But no, we can't be sitting in the bottom half next Christmas. I don't believe we will be, but time will tell. MoN needs to go to a few coaching clinics in the offseason, go to Vegas, change whiskeys, jump the wife more often, whatever it takes to add flexibility to his approach. He looks like a man who cares to the point of beating himself down. He needs to counter it with some wild fun - just stay away from Rooney, he always gets caught. And in a nod to the nickname thread - to avoid the shipping of goals, we need a "Chainsaw" in the midfield. Someone to consistently ruin momentum of the enemy's buildup play. jump the wife more often? what more than just birthdays?He does give the impression he needs a little bit more wild, but last thing we went is for it to go all Nathan Jones..For me if we can get a decent ball playing cdm, as you say a chainsaw, in the summer or an equivalent to Baker and we are fortunate to only have average injuries we get to the play offs. With few injuries we could get automatic. Campbell before his injury was our best player, Souttar before his injury was our best player and Powell before his injury was our best player. Baker must be next. But proper spot on post. Choked on my drink when I read that And thanks for the mental image of a MON/Nathan mash-up, which sobered me up immediately. But the BEST image is your entire third paragraph, speaking of spot-on.
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Post by JoeinOz on Feb 20, 2022 4:10:11 GMT
Two points down the shithole after being ahead again. Ace!
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Post by stokie1947 on Feb 20, 2022 11:14:33 GMT
i agree to a point but the board won't sack him so he needs a good transfer window in summer like the last one we really need our defence strengthening i am looking forward to who goes also should be interesting
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Post by GoBoks on Feb 20, 2022 11:33:38 GMT
Of course we carry on with O'Neill. He's taken a few years to build us from a team that was "not fit to wear the shirt" to a team that is almost, almost there. I'm not willing to throw the progress we've made away to start over and repeat the process. I'd love to see some of you investing on the stock market ...... Crap my shares are down. let's sell! Aaaah that share over there has gone up. Let's buy! Quick way to go bankrupt. You select your stocks (manager/players) carefully based on fundamentals. If there's a bump in the road, you keep patient/invest further. If fundamentals change dramatically - get out. If not, you will reap the rewards over time. A very old-fashioned approach that hardly any clubs go with any more. MON is one of the longest-serving managers in the division. “Old Fashioned” implies antiquated or outdated. I prefer “tried and true”! After all, unless you have a ton of money to throw at the problem, the “new fashioned” way hasn’t worked very well for most clubs.
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Post by GoBoks on Feb 20, 2022 11:36:13 GMT
Crap result, but at the end of the day we started 6 points off playoffs, we're still 6 points off playoffs and we have 15 games to play. We're not doing ourselves any favours, but it's still very doable! I would sooo like you to be right. 👍 I am right! I’m not saying we will do it, just that it’s doable! But, I echo your sentiment and also sooooo hope we do do it!
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Post by GoBoks on Feb 20, 2022 11:54:36 GMT
It’s a tricky one as it’s a work in progress with MON, but there is something I can’t put my finger on that suggests to me he isn’t the right man. Next season we have to be going up, I don’t care whether that is unrealistic pressure, the club must aspire to promotion. If it was stick or twist now, I’d be twisting. he needs to take a look at how Huddersfield, boro and Forest 'work in progress' changes get implemented. I prefer that timeline to make material changes. Sure he gets the summer but not sure it will make any difference. Our players either have a glaring error in them every game or cannot be improved by this coaching set up. Same song different names. In 2004 some prominent posters on here were saying “We should look at how Norwich City are rub”. A few years later, no one was wishing we were like Norwich. And the list goes on and on. Yes, we stuffed up our recovery from relegation big time. Yes, that’s caused us problems. But IMO, we are vastly improved from where we were and in the next year or 2 other teams fans will be singing the same song using our name, just as they did for several years while we were in the prem.
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 20, 2022 14:43:29 GMT
A very old-fashioned approach that hardly any clubs go with any more. MON is one of the longest-serving managers in the division. “Old Fashioned” implies antiquated or outdated. I prefer “tried and true”! After all, unless you have a ton of money to throw at the problem, the “new fashioned” way hasn’t worked very well for most clubs. I’m sure there are pros and cons to both approaches but it’s easy to see why clubs want to move away from putting all their eggs in the basket of one managerial appointment and finding themselves back at square one when it inevitably goes pear-shaped. (Exactly like us) Anyway it was more a point about you mocking supposed short termism when in fact MON has already had a much longer tenure than most managers get.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2022 18:12:16 GMT
he needs to take a look at how Huddersfield, boro and Forest 'work in progress' changes get implemented. I prefer that timeline to make material changes. Sure he gets the summer but not sure it will make any difference. Our players either have a glaring error in them every game or cannot be improved by this coaching set up. Same song different names. In 2004 some prominent posters on here were saying “We should look at how Norwich City are rub”. A few years later, no one was wishing we were like Norwich. And the list goes on and on. Yes, we stuffed up our recovery from relegation big time. Yes, that’s caused us problems. But IMO, we are vastly improved from where we were and in the next year or 2 other teams fans will be singing the same song using our name, just as they did for several years while we were in the prem. Weren't Plymouth the blueprint then Bristol City?
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Post by dirtclod on Feb 20, 2022 18:48:59 GMT
Two points down the shithole after being ahead again. Ace! Yep I hear you. Not to beat a dead horse, but we've contrived to throw away so many points this season. At least it tempers my enthusiasm so I won't end up delusional like so many other clubs fans are. Banging on about winning a couple of trophies during the Bronze Age...
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Post by somersetstokie on Feb 20, 2022 20:30:30 GMT
Two points down the shithole after being ahead again. Ace! Yep I hear you. Not to beat a dead horse, but we've contrived to throw away so many points this season. At least it tempers my enthusiasm so I won't end up delusional like so many other clubs fans are. Banging on about winning a couple of trophies during the Bronze Age... Probably one of the Club's greatest achievements.
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Post by houstonsteve on Feb 20, 2022 21:03:19 GMT
he needs to take a look at how Huddersfield, boro and Forest 'work in progress' changes get implemented. I prefer that timeline to make material changes. Sure he gets the summer but not sure it will make any difference. Our players either have a glaring error in them every game or cannot be improved by this coaching set up. Same song different names. In 2004 some prominent posters on here were saying “We should look at how Norwich City are rub”. A few years later, no one was wishing we were like Norwich. And the list goes on and on. Yes, we stuffed up our recovery from relegation big time. Yes, that’s caused us problems. But IMO, we are vastly improved from where we were and in the next year or 2 other teams fans will be singing the same song using our name, just as they did for several years while we were in the prem. respectfully -I did not say anything about how the clubs were run. I was alluding to how certain managers can get a tune out of squads without needing 3 years to do it. And on another post Wilder and Copper have a career statistic of elite points per game and it looks like the Huddersfield guy is heading in that direction. i.e. some blokes have it and some don't (we should probably change that to be gender neutral but thats for another day). Sadly MON is average and his record doesn't even hint at getting into the playoffs let alone automatic promotion. anyway its all opinions isn't it. Cheers.
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Post by JoeinOz on Feb 20, 2022 23:18:12 GMT
Two points down the shithole after being ahead again. Ace! Yep I hear you. Not to beat a dead horse, but we've contrived to throw away so many points this season. At least it tempers my enthusiasm so I won't end up delusional like so many other clubs fans are. Banging on about winning a couple of trophies during the Bronze Age... 22 points lost from winning positions this season
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Post by GoBoks on Feb 21, 2022 13:08:16 GMT
“Old Fashioned” implies antiquated or outdated. I prefer “tried and true”! After all, unless you have a ton of money to throw at the problem, the “new fashioned” way hasn’t worked very well for most clubs. I’m sure there are pros and cons to both approaches but it’s easy to see why clubs want to move away from putting all their eggs in the basket of one managerial appointment and finding themselves back at square one when it inevitably goes pear-shaped. (Exactly like us) Anyway it was more a point about you mocking supposed short termism when in fact MON has already had a much longer tenure than most managers get. Firstly, Who are the best managers Stoke have ever had? How long did they serve? How soon after initial appointment were they delivering success? How many of them inherited the potential disaster of premier wages, filed super spending for 2nd tier, and players that by and large were “not fit to wear the shirt? Secondly, How long has MON really had? What is success? In the first half of a season to save a team sleepwalking to relegation = Sucess! In the first full season, to deal with the financial implications of the first 2 years of financial, player morale and skill, playing behind closed doors and dealing with covid and yet still have a decent mid table season = Success! In his second season to have the team challenging for the playoff, purged the toxic elements and having reinstalled belief in fans and players that this team is a few tweaks from being the real deal = Success! Thirdly, Even given the absence of some of the crippling factors that MON has had to deal with, which Stoke managers have accomplished more than MON in their first 26 months in the job? Finally, what percentage of managers win a trophy or even promotion within their first 24 months at a club that has not won a trophy in the past 20 years? What percentage of managers do it after 24 months? Which Stoke City Managers have done it? The defense rests.
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Post by GoBoks on Feb 21, 2022 13:16:04 GMT
Same song different names. In 2004 some prominent posters on here were saying “We should look at how Norwich City are rub”. A few years later, no one was wishing we were like Norwich. And the list goes on and on. Yes, we stuffed up our recovery from relegation big time. Yes, that’s caused us problems. But IMO, we are vastly improved from where we were and in the next year or 2 other teams fans will be singing the same song using our name, just as they did for several years while we were in the prem. Weren't Plymouth the blueprint then Bristol City? I think it started with the first cow in the world looking at the grass on the other side of the fence.
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Post by GoBoks on Feb 21, 2022 13:42:43 GMT
Same song different names. In 2004 some prominent posters on here were saying “We should look at how Norwich City are rub”. A few years later, no one was wishing we were like Norwich. And the list goes on and on. Yes, we stuffed up our recovery from relegation big time. Yes, that’s caused us problems. But IMO, we are vastly improved from where we were and in the next year or 2 other teams fans will be singing the same song using our name, just as they did for several years while we were in the prem. respectfully -I did not say anything about how the clubs were run. I was alluding to how certain managers can get a tune out of squads without needing 3 years to do it. And on another post Wilder and Copper have a career statistic of elite points per game and it looks like the Huddersfield guy is heading in that direction. i.e. some blokes have it and some don't (we should probably change that to be gender neutral but thats for another day). Sadly MON is average and his record doesn't even hint at getting into the playoffs let alone automatic promotion. anyway its all opinions isn't it. Cheers. Also respectfully, fellow Texan and Stokie, refer to my post above. MON hasn’t had 3 years and has accomplished significant progress since taking over.. Do you know how manny “winning seasons” Stoke has had since WW2? 24 or about 1 every 3.8 years! Do you know how many winning seasons in the last 20 years? 4 or 1 every 5 years. MON is on track to make it 1 out of 2 full seasons! Do you know how many times Stoke have finished with a positive goal difference since WW2? 27, how many times in past 20 years? 4 times. Anyone who can’t see that progress is being made simply does not want to see! And to preempt those who say winning seasons and GD don’t win you any prizes, do you know how many promotions or <rueful chuckle> league titles we’ve won since WW2? 5. Last 20 years? 1! And yet somehow this is the same team you expect to go from sleepwalking relegation certainties to dead cert promotion team in just 26 months? The season is not over. We are still in with a shout, and even if we fail, have a positive platform to build a challenge next year. Let’s get our heads out of our own delude arses and support our team which is undergoing a revival!
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 21, 2022 15:25:50 GMT
I’m sure there are pros and cons to both approaches but it’s easy to see why clubs want to move away from putting all their eggs in the basket of one managerial appointment and finding themselves back at square one when it inevitably goes pear-shaped. (Exactly like us) Anyway it was more a point about you mocking supposed short termism when in fact MON has already had a much longer tenure than most managers get. Firstly, Who are the best managers Stoke have ever had? How long did they serve? How soon after initial appointment were they delivering success? How many of them inherited the potential disaster of premier wages, filed super spending for 2nd tier, and players that by and large were “not fit to wear the shirt? Secondly, How long has MON really had? What is success? In the first half of a season to save a team sleepwalking to relegation = Sucess! In the first full season, to deal with the financial implications of the first 2 years of financial, player morale and skill, playing behind closed doors and dealing with covid and yet still have a decent mid table season = Success! In his second season to have the team challenging for the playoff, purged the toxic elements and having reinstalled belief in fans and players that this team is a few tweaks from being the real deal = Success! Thirdly, Even given the absence of some of the crippling factors that MON has had to deal with, which Stoke managers have accomplished more than MON in their first 26 months in the job? Finally, what percentage of managers win a trophy or even promotion within their first 24 months at a club that has not won a trophy in the past 20 years? What percentage of managers do it after 24 months? Which Stoke City Managers have done it? The defense rests. The first half-season was a resounding success. This season and last season have been complete underachievements. We're going absolutely nowhere.
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Post by GoBoks on Feb 21, 2022 15:46:12 GMT
Firstly, Who are the best managers Stoke have ever had? How long did they serve? How soon after initial appointment were they delivering success? How many of them inherited the potential disaster of premier wages, filed super spending for 2nd tier, and players that by and large were “not fit to wear the shirt? Secondly, How long has MON really had? What is success? In the first half of a season to save a team sleepwalking to relegation = Sucess! In the first full season, to deal with the financial implications of the first 2 years of financial, player morale and skill, playing behind closed doors and dealing with covid and yet still have a decent mid table season = Success! In his second season to have the team challenging for the playoff, purged the toxic elements and having reinstalled belief in fans and players that this team is a few tweaks from being the real deal = Success! Thirdly, Even given the absence of some of the crippling factors that MON has had to deal with, which Stoke managers have accomplished more than MON in their first 26 months in the job? Finally, what percentage of managers win a trophy or even promotion within their first 24 months at a club that has not won a trophy in the past 20 years? What percentage of managers do it after 24 months? Which Stoke City Managers have done it? The defense rests. The first half-season was a resounding success. This season and last season have been complete underachievements. We're going absolutely nowhere. So with no logic, you simply avoid the questions and state “We’re going nowhere”. As I have said previously anyone who Can/will not see any positives in our current situation needs to visit either an ophthalmologist and/or a psychiatrist! We have won more league games than we have lost, which if we end the season like that will be only the fifth time in the last 20 years. We will also have ended the season on a positive GD, again only done 4 times in the past 20 years before this season. In 26 months, he has turned us from a team sleepwalking into oblivion into a team that is starting to push for top 6! No small achievement! Excluding the year we were relegated to Div3N and bounced straight back up, in the last 100 years, how many times have we been promoted when the immediately preceding season we had a losing record? ZERO! But this manager is expected to do it? Same time period and exclusion, how many times were we promoted following a season with a negative GD? 1. But you maintain that this manager has failed? Any reasonable, logical analysis would disagree with your conclusions.
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