|
Post by wagsastokie on Feb 19, 2022 20:58:56 GMT
So you admit it was a labour government that opened the country up for Russian money Blair was a Tory. What does that make his protege starmer
|
|
|
Post by hammered on Feb 19, 2022 23:05:31 GMT
|
|
|
Post by foster on Feb 19, 2022 23:05:41 GMT
What does that make his protege starmer Why don't you bore people with the Labour v Tory shit on one of the other threads that's actually related to that topic.
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on Feb 20, 2022 6:44:47 GMT
What does that make his protege starmer Why don't you bore people with the Labour v Tory shit on one of the other threads that's actually related to that topic. I could do when all the left wingers on here stop talking about the Tory’s and Russian money I’ll have no need to mention it was labour that let them in originally
|
|
|
Post by yeswilko on Feb 20, 2022 9:08:45 GMT
Why don't you bore people with the Labour v Tory shit on one of the other threads that's actually related to that topic. I could do when all the left wingers on here stop talking about the Tory’s and Russian money I’ll have no need to mention it was labour that let them in originally "Boris Johnson has admitted he did take part in a tennis match with the wife of a former Russian minister after she donated £160,000 to the Conservative party." 160k for a game of tennis with fat boy... seems legit!
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Feb 20, 2022 9:11:01 GMT
Why don't you bore people with the Labour v Tory shit on one of the other threads that's actually related to that topic. I could do when all the left wingers on here stop talking about the Tory’s and Russian money I’ll have no need to mention it was labour that let them in originally The issue of Russian money in Londongrad is pertinent. If it helps to clear up the party political point-scoring, it was indeed a Labour govt that introduced the golden visa scheme following the financial crisis in 2008, so probably Brown not Blair. Twelve years that the Conservatives have had to do something about that. I've not heard a peep from govt yet on any thoughts of freezing individual Russians' UK assets. That should be floated. Let's have a few private phone calls heading back from London to Putin from panicking wealthy oligarchs and see how keen Putin is to invade when people with the kind of money and power to make domestic life difficult for him start turning on him.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Feb 20, 2022 9:16:48 GMT
Will Russia invade Finland?
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on Feb 20, 2022 9:17:29 GMT
I could do when all the left wingers on here stop talking about the Tory’s and Russian money I’ll have no need to mention it was labour that let them in originally "Boris Johnson has admitted he did take part in a tennis match with the wife of a former Russian minister after she donated £160,000 to the Conservative party." 160k for a game of tennis with fat boy... seems legit! I’ve never said the way the Tory’s have dealt with the Russians has been acceptable Merely pointing out the starting point that rests with Blair who is unbelievably quite on the Ukraine situation As a previous poster stated shouldn’t we be discussing the megalomaniac in charge of Russia Rather than the bumbling idiot who will hopefully be out of a job shortly over here
|
|
|
Post by Gob Bluth on Feb 20, 2022 9:25:17 GMT
I could do when all the left wingers on here stop talking about the Tory’s and Russian money I’ll have no need to mention it was labour that let them in originally The issue of Russian money in Londongrad is pertinent. If it helps to clear up the party political point-scoring, it was indeed a Labour govt that introduced the golden visa scheme following the financial crisis in 2008, so probably Brown not Blair. Twelve years that the Conservatives have had to do something about that. I've not heard a peep from govt yet on any thoughts of freezing individual Russians' UK assets. That should be floated. Let's have a few private phone calls heading back from London to Putin from panicking wealthy oligarchs and see how keen Putin is to invade when people with the kind of money and power to make domestic life difficult for him start turning on him. Are we sure there’s a link between the Russia money and Putin’s foreign policy? Sometimes it sounds like strangling Russian’s personal wealth will control Putin’s behaviour, which at the point in time and with the history of the world wars feels like a leap. Not to suggest we shouldn’t be the lack of talk of force or mobilisation of troops suggest Europe might be under cooked.
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on Feb 20, 2022 9:47:51 GMT
The issue of Russian money in Londongrad is pertinent. If it helps to clear up the party political point-scoring, it was indeed a Labour govt that introduced the golden visa scheme following the financial crisis in 2008, so probably Brown not Blair. Twelve years that the Conservatives have had to do something about that. I've not heard a peep from govt yet on any thoughts of freezing individual Russians' UK assets. That should be floated. Let's have a few private phone calls heading back from London to Putin from panicking wealthy oligarchs and see how keen Putin is to invade when people with the kind of money and power to make domestic life difficult for him start turning on him. Are we sure there’s a link between the Russia money and Putin’s foreign policy? Sometimes it sounds like strangling Russian’s personal wealth will control Putin’s behaviour, which at the point in time and with the history of the world wars feels like a leap. Not to suggest we shouldn’t be the lack of talk of force or mobilisation of troops suggest Europe might be under cooked. A good point on lack of force If I was Ukrainian I wouldn’t be relying on Biden any time soon
|
|
|
Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 20, 2022 9:55:33 GMT
What does that make his protege starmer Electable. Also as a serial responder and deep thinker, you might have missed it but can you at least tell us who and what Government places the ex-KGB Russian Oligrach relative in the House of Lords? 😁
|
|
|
Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 20, 2022 9:56:56 GMT
So you admit it was a labour government that opened the country up for Russian money Blair was a Tory. Blue Labour 👌 The glorious centre.
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on Feb 20, 2022 10:04:33 GMT
Blue Labour 👌 The glorious centre. Unless you’re a Iraqi civilian British soldier Or a rather unfortunate inspector looking for alleged weapons of mass distraction Though I must admit they were rather good for bankers
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on Feb 20, 2022 10:05:06 GMT
What does that make his protege starmer Electable. Also as a serial responder and deep thinker, you might have missed it but can you at least tell us who and what Government places the ex-KGB Russian Oligrach relative in the House of Lords? 😁 A inept one
|
|
|
Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 20, 2022 10:30:14 GMT
Electable. Also as a serial responder and deep thinker, you might have missed it but can you at least tell us who and what Government places the ex-KGB Russian Oligrach relative in the House of Lords? 😁 A inept one Hear no arguments here. But just for clarity, and I think it will do you good, give us the name... 🤭😉
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Feb 20, 2022 10:39:36 GMT
What's Ukraine's own military like? Could they cause some damage to Russia's forces without the help of Nato? 60,000 deployed troops compared to Russia’s 1 million, a 6 billion euro defence budget compared to Russia’s 70 billion euros and a tiny fraction of the weaponry. In a full scale war they’d be annihilated…… Something similar was said about the Winter War. Same about Vietnam. Afghanistan (on more than one occasion). Recent years should have taught the big guys about the risks of asymmetric war. Overwhelming military power doesn’t necessarily result in a comprehensive victory. Of course, it brings devastation on the wee guy, but it can end in defeat and disaster for the big yin.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 20, 2022 10:45:11 GMT
60,000 deployed troops compared to Russia’s 1 million, a 6 billion euro defence budget compared to Russia’s 70 billion euros and a tiny fraction of the weaponry. In a full scale war they’d be annihilated…… Something similar was said about the Winter War. Same about Vietnam. Afghanistan (on more than one occasion). Recent years should have taught the big guys about the risks of asymmetric war. Overwhelming military power doesn’t necessarily result in a comprehensive victory. Of course, it brings devastation on the wee guy, but it can end in defeat and disaster for the big yin. The mobilisation of troops in this conflict is a different ball game to the likes of Vietnam though with the two countries bordering each other. It's the difference between being able to send wave upon wave of attacks with no let up compared to having to regroup and allow the opposition to do the same, and of course the terrain is a lot more forgiving. Ultimately modern day warfare isn't just about weapons and boots on the ground though with the increased nuclear strength of nations, cyber warfare etc. so I'm seriously hoping we never get to find out.......
|
|
|
Post by thevoid on Feb 20, 2022 10:46:54 GMT
Will Russia invade Finland? You laugh but Finland is a former member of the Russian Empire
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on Feb 20, 2022 10:49:23 GMT
60,000 deployed troops compared to Russia’s 1 million, a 6 billion euro defence budget compared to Russia’s 70 billion euros and a tiny fraction of the weaponry. In a full scale war they’d be annihilated…… Something similar was said about the Winter War. Same about Vietnam. Afghanistan (on more than one occasion). Recent years should have taught the big guys about the risks of asymmetric war. Overwhelming military power doesn’t necessarily result in a comprehensive victory. Of course, it brings devastation on the wee guy, but it can end in defeat and disaster for the big yin. If Russia invades they won’t have it all there own way and potentially thousands of Russians will be killed And there will be resistance for years to come The big negative for the Ukrainians is the lack of natural obstacles The Vietnamese had the jungle the Afghans the mountains
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 20, 2022 10:57:46 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Gob Bluth on Feb 20, 2022 11:04:23 GMT
Are we sure there’s a link between the Russia money and Putin’s foreign policy? Sometimes it sounds like strangling Russian’s personal wealth will control Putin’s behaviour, which at the point in time and with the history of the world wars feels like a leap. Not to suggest we shouldn’t be the lack of talk of force or mobilisation of troops suggest Europe might be under cooked. A good point on lack of force If I was Ukrainian I wouldn’t be relying on Biden any time soon I can also see a scenario where Trump runs under a campaign of completely withdrawing from Ukraine and NATO, winning, thus giving Russia the opportunity to completely reform the Soviet Union.
|
|
|
Post by OldStokie on Feb 20, 2022 12:00:59 GMT
A good point on lack of force If I was Ukrainian I wouldn’t be relying on Biden any time soon I can also see a scenario where Trump runs under a campaign of completely withdrawing from Ukraine and NATO, winning, thus giving Russia the opportunity to completely reform the Soviet Union. I agree. Trump exudes egotistical madness but his body language when he and Putin met most definitely placed him in the presence of a superior being. Putin will have Trump eating his crumbs from under the table. Biden may not be a 'Kennedy', but he's a far better bet than Trump. If Putin plays his cards right, leaves off this invasion and bides his time while he manages to get Trump elected again, he can break up any cohesion between the western powers. OS.
|
|
|
Post by terryconroysmagic on Feb 20, 2022 13:33:11 GMT
Biden wouldn’t want to get into the tarot reading business…
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Feb 20, 2022 13:37:09 GMT
60,000 deployed troops compared to Russia’s 1 million, a 6 billion euro defence budget compared to Russia’s 70 billion euros and a tiny fraction of the weaponry. In a full scale war they’d be annihilated…… Something similar was said about the Winter War. Same about Vietnam. Afghanistan (on more than one occasion). Recent years should have taught the big guys about the risks of asymmetric war. Overwhelming military power doesn’t necessarily result in a comprehensive victory. Of course, it brings devastation on the wee guy, but it can end in defeat and disaster for the big yin. Fundamental difference re terrain Ukraine is not as defendeable
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Feb 20, 2022 13:53:15 GMT
The issue of Russian money in Londongrad is pertinent. If it helps to clear up the party political point-scoring, it was indeed a Labour govt that introduced the golden visa scheme following the financial crisis in 2008, so probably Brown not Blair. Twelve years that the Conservatives have had to do something about that. I've not heard a peep from govt yet on any thoughts of freezing individual Russians' UK assets. That should be floated. Let's have a few private phone calls heading back from London to Putin from panicking wealthy oligarchs and see how keen Putin is to invade when people with the kind of money and power to make domestic life difficult for him start turning on him. Are we sure there’s a link between the Russia money and Putin’s foreign policy? Sometimes it sounds like strangling Russian’s personal wealth will control Putin’s behaviour, which at the point in time and with the history of the world wars feels like a leap. Not to suggest we shouldn’t be the lack of talk of force or mobilisation of troops suggest Europe might be under cooked. I doubt that there is a direct link between Russian money in London and Putin's foreign policy. The point I was making is that we could do with a few wealthy Russian oligarchs complaining to Putin about the fact that his actions have resulted in their assets being frozen. Remember that these are wealthy people who, like all wealthy people, yield a lot of power. Putin seems untouchable, but Russian (Soviet) leaders often do, before being deposed shortly afterwards. There will be people in high positions in Russia just waiting for Putin to make a mistake so that they can fulfil their own ambitions, and conversations with pissed off wealthy backers are nearly always part of that manoeuvring. It'd be nice if our govt had the balls to put that consideration into Putin's mind...the cosy ties between Londongrad money and the govt would suggest otherwise.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Feb 20, 2022 13:59:41 GMT
I’m sure the relatives of the 14,000 Ukrainians killed by Russians since 2014 would piss their pants laughing at that funny video.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Feb 20, 2022 14:01:42 GMT
Something similar was said about the Winter War. Same about Vietnam. Afghanistan (on more than one occasion). Recent years should have taught the big guys about the risks of asymmetric war. Overwhelming military power doesn’t necessarily result in a comprehensive victory. Of course, it brings devastation on the wee guy, but it can end in defeat and disaster for the big yin. Fundamental difference re terrain Ukraine is not as defendeable Wars are not just fought on the ground and in the air.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 20, 2022 14:03:06 GMT
I’m sure the relatives of the 14,000 Ukrainians killed by Russians since 2014 would piss their pants laughing at that funny video. I don't think they read the Oatcake.........
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Feb 20, 2022 14:04:03 GMT
Will Russia invade Finland? You laugh but Finland is a former member of the Russian Empire Part joke, part serious. The debate on Finland, and Sweden, joining NATO seems to be starting again.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Feb 20, 2022 14:05:35 GMT
I’m sure the relatives of the 14,000 Ukrainians killed by Russians since 2014 would piss their pants laughing at that funny video. I don't think they read the Oatcake......... Oh sorry. Arse licking Putin is completely fine then. Jolly good.
|
|