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Post by Laughing Gravy on Dec 22, 2021 20:49:39 GMT
Joking aside, how fucking sinister is it that he makes a point of saying he's forwarded the letter to the police. Can you imagine that a few years ago? It would be the recipient with a mind to contact the police about the matter, not the sender of the letter.. the fact that he feels confident enough in his righteousness that he can inform the authorities about it and presumably count on their backing is, in my opinion, a symptom of our cultural climate and a by-product of the long-running police crackdown on speech and "offence". But maybe that's a discussion for another day. Either way it looks pretty shocking. Is the FSA on this Malcolm Clarke? Unless they've committed a criminal offence what are the police going to do? Are they really going to be interested in a Twatter spat? Plus it's down to the police to apply for a banning order (I think) not the club. The club can ban anyone they want from their property but they can't stop them watching footy elsewhere. ie at away grounds. Unless they've committed a criminal offence and the courts ban them.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Dec 22, 2021 21:37:14 GMT
Joking aside, how fucking sinister is it that he makes a point of saying he's forwarded the letter to the police. Can you imagine that a few years ago? It would be the recipient with a mind to contact the police about the matter, not the sender of the letter.. the fact that he feels confident enough in his righteousness that he can inform the authorities about it and presumably count on their backing is, in my opinion, a symptom of our cultural climate and a by-product of the long-running police crackdown on speech and "offence". But maybe that's a discussion for another day. Either way it looks pretty shocking. Is the FSA on this Malcolm Clarke? Yes we are. We have issued a statement about it and our caseworker is working with the fans involved. As you say trying to bring the police into what is a civil not criminal matter is sinister but we have too much experience to be phased by that and will advise the fans accordingly.
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 22, 2021 22:07:20 GMT
Joking aside, how fucking sinister is it that he makes a point of saying he's forwarded the letter to the police. Can you imagine that a few years ago? It would be the recipient with a mind to contact the police about the matter, not the sender of the letter.. the fact that he feels confident enough in his righteousness that he can inform the authorities about it and presumably count on their backing is, in my opinion, a symptom of our cultural climate and a by-product of the long-running police crackdown on speech and "offence". But maybe that's a discussion for another day. Either way it looks pretty shocking. Is the FSA on this Malcolm Clarke? Unless they've committed a criminal offence what are the police going to do? Are they really going to be interested in a Twatter spat? Plus it's down to the police to apply for a banning order (I think) not the club. The club can ban anyone they want from their property but they can't stop them watching footy elsewhere. ie at away grounds. Unless they've committed a criminal offence and the courts ban them. The club’s answer to that was that they wouldn’t sell him away tickets and would share his details with away clubs (bringing up potential data protection issues). On the police, yeah it wasn’t so much a fear of what they might do (although police forces do spend time investigating “non-crime”) as a comment on the attitude of the sender of the letter. Reassuring to see Malcolm’s response above
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Dec 22, 2021 22:21:26 GMT
Unless they've committed a criminal offence what are the police going to do? Are they really going to be interested in a Twatter spat? Plus it's down to the police to apply for a banning order (I think) not the club. The club can ban anyone they want from their property but they can't stop them watching footy elsewhere. ie at away grounds. Unless they've committed a criminal offence and the courts ban them. The club’s answer to that was that they wouldn’t sell him away tickets and would share his details with away clubs (bringing up potential data protection issues). On the police, yeah it wasn’t so much a fear of what they might do (although police forces do spend time investigating “non-crime”) as a comment on the attitude of the sender of the letter. Reassuring to see Malcolm’s response above Agree mate. Good to see Malcolm's response. I haven't actually seen what the 3 are alleged to have said?
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Dec 22, 2021 22:28:18 GMT
Joking aside, how fucking sinister is it that he makes a point of saying he's forwarded the letter to the police. Can you imagine that a few years ago? It would be the recipient with a mind to contact the police about the matter, not the sender of the letter.. the fact that he feels confident enough in his righteousness that he can inform the authorities about it and presumably count on their backing is, in my opinion, a symptom of our cultural climate and a by-product of the long-running police crackdown on speech and "offence". But maybe that's a discussion for another day. Either way it looks pretty shocking. Is the FSA on this Malcolm Clarke? I think it is with regards to police enforcing banning orders, which I believe they do. The reason for the ban is ridiculous though I’ll agree. The police will enforce a judicial banning order imposed by the courts but this is a private club ban.
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Post by a on Dec 22, 2021 22:37:24 GMT
I think it is with regards to police enforcing banning orders, which I believe they do. The reason for the ban is ridiculous though I’ll agree. The police will enforce a judicial banning order imposed by the courts but this is a private club ban. I wonder then Malcom, whether this GM knows this? Or perhaps he just thinks he can instruct the police to stop this person(s) from entering?
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Post by Squeekster on Dec 22, 2021 22:53:47 GMT
The police will enforce a judicial banning order imposed by the courts but this is a private club ban. I wonder then Malcom, whether this GM knows this? Or perhaps he just thinks he can instruct the police to stop this person(s) from entering? You'd like to think so but this is GMP and just like the MET they think they can do what they want.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Dec 22, 2021 22:55:15 GMT
The police will enforce a judicial banning order imposed by the courts but this is a private club ban. I wonder then Malcom, whether this GM knows this? Or perhaps he just thinks he can instruct the police to stop this person(s) from entering? Well who knows, a. I never cease to be amazed by the ignorance of some of those who own , and even in some cases are executive staff in, our football clubs.
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Post by lordb on Dec 22, 2021 23:03:51 GMT
I wonder then Malcom, whether this GM knows this? Or perhaps he just thinks he can instruct the police to stop this person(s) from entering? Well who knows, a. I never cease to be amazed by the ignorance of some of those who own , and even in some cases are executive staff in, our football clubs. Never underestimate stupidity
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Post by a on Dec 22, 2021 23:06:51 GMT
I wonder then Malcom, whether this GM knows this? Or perhaps he just thinks he can instruct the police to stop this person(s) from entering? You'd like to think so but this is GMP and just like the MET they think they can do what they want. It’s not like GMP have responded with glee at the opportunity to have to look for and eject someone 😂
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Post by a on Dec 22, 2021 23:07:38 GMT
I wonder then Malcom, whether this GM knows this? Or perhaps he just thinks he can instruct the police to stop this person(s) from entering? Well who knows, a. I never cease to be amazed by the ignorance of some of those who own , and even in some cases are executive staff in, our football clubs. I’m sure there are some representatives of clubs who haven’t got the first clue. This could be an example of that!
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Post by Boothen on Dec 22, 2021 23:13:39 GMT
You'd like to think so but this is GMP and just like the MET they think they can do what they want. It’s not like GMP have responded with glee at the opportunity to have to look for and eject someone 😂 Could they actually eject somebody though? Trespass is civil, not criminal.
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Post by a on Dec 22, 2021 23:17:30 GMT
It’s not like GMP have responded with glee at the opportunity to have to look for and eject someone 😂 Could they actually eject somebody though? Trespass is civil, not criminal. If it is aggravated then yes I believe so. It is a sticky area. If someone walked into your house then refused to leave I dare bet it’d be a case of removing them or calling the police, you’re unlikely to go through the courts.
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Post by thevoid on Dec 23, 2021 8:50:48 GMT
Can we do it with Hyadick? Do Vale fans actually watch Stoke? Probably not. Based on the 'Fail Crowd to Work Colleague Ratio' most of them don't watch the Fail either.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Dec 23, 2021 11:12:52 GMT
Could they actually eject somebody though? Trespass is civil, not criminal. If it is aggravated then yes I believe so. It is a sticky area. If someone walked into your house then refused to leave I dare bet it’d be a case of removing them or calling the police, you’re unlikely to go through the courts. It is a bit of grey area. If the fans decided to try to get in and were stopped at the turnstile, or got in and were then spotted, the police could become involved if the fan tried to force their way in or resisted ejection, and it became a public order issue. Otherwise they have no role. But sometimes there is an unhealthily close relationship between a Club and the police. We had a case a couple of years ago where a Club held a hearing which didn't involve any suggestion of criminality, and had the police liaiason officer sitting in on the hearing !, which is intimidating to the accused and completely unnecessary. Even worse, there was previously a case where a club's letter banning a fan was actually hand delivered to the house where he lived with his mother by a police officer, which upset the lad's mother. In our view this was an attempt to intimidate and a totally improper and unnecessary use of police resources, which we communicated to the Chief Constable. Legally, a club has the right to refuse admission without giving a reason, just like pub landlords, private club owners etc. We want to see that changed in football rules, so that public disagreement with the way a club is being run, taking part in peaceful protests about that etc. are not allowable as reasons for a club ban. And we want to see clubs being required to adopt proper procedures in accordance with the principles of natural justice for hearing cases of alleged misbehaviour which might justify a fan being banned. At the moment, the route for these fans and others is to go to the Independent Football Ombudsman. The problem is that it can take literally months for the IFO to conclude his investigation and produce his report and, although in theory the IFO's ruling is supposed to be adopted, in practice sometimes clubs simply ignore his recommendation and nothing happens to them for doing so. Tracey Crouch's Fan-led review report, and the proposed club licensing system, offers a route for improving practices in this area. In fairness, by no means all clubs have poor practice in this area.
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Post by Gob Bluth on Dec 23, 2021 11:48:45 GMT
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Post by lordb on Dec 23, 2021 12:15:04 GMT
If it is aggravated then yes I believe so. It is a sticky area. If someone walked into your house then refused to leave I dare bet it’d be a case of removing them or calling the police, you’re unlikely to go through the courts. It is a bit of grey area. If the fans decided to try to get in and were stopped at the turnstile, or got in and were then spotted, the police could become involved if the fan tried to force their way in or resisted ejection, and it became a public order issue. Otherwise they have no role. But sometimes there is an unhealthily close relationship between a Club and the police. We had a case a couple of years ago where a Club held a hearing which didn't involve any suggestion of criminality, and had the police liaiason officer sitting in on the hearing !, which is intimidating to the accused and completely unnecessary. Even worse, there was previously a case where a club's letter banning a fan was actually hand delivered to the house where he lived with his mother by a police officer, which upset the lad's mother. In our view this was an attempt to intimidate and a totally improper and unnecessary use of police resources, which we communicated to the Chief Constable. Legally, a club has the right to refuse admission without giving a reason, just like pub landlords, private club owners etc. We want to see that changed in football rules, so that public disagreement with the way a club is being run, taking part in peaceful protests about that etc. are not allowable as reasons for a club ban. And we want to see clubs being required to adopt proper procedures in accordance with the principles of natural justice for hearing cases of alleged misbehaviour which might justify a fan being banned. At the moment, the route for these fans and others is to go to the Independent Football Ombudsman. The problem is that it can take literally months for the IFO to conclude his investigation and produce his report and, although in theory the IFO's ruling is supposed to be adopted, in practice sometimes clubs simply ignore his recommendation and nothing happens to them for doing so. Tracey Crouch's Fan-led review report, and the proposed club licensing system, offers a route for improving practices in this area. In fairness, by no means all clubs have poor practice in this area. 'We had a case a couple of years ago where a Club held a hearing which didn't involve any suggestion of criminality, and had the police liaiason officer sitting in on the hearing' in what capacity were they there? were they there during work time or their own time? were they in uniform? abuse of the role surely?
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Dec 23, 2021 12:38:09 GMT
It is a bit of grey area. If the fans decided to try to get in and were stopped at the turnstile, or got in and were then spotted, the police could become involved if the fan tried to force their way in or resisted ejection, and it became a public order issue. Otherwise they have no role. But sometimes there is an unhealthily close relationship between a Club and the police. We had a case a couple of years ago where a Club held a hearing which didn't involve any suggestion of criminality, and had the police liaiason officer sitting in on the hearing !, which is intimidating to the accused and completely unnecessary. Even worse, there was previously a case where a club's letter banning a fan was actually hand delivered to the house where he lived with his mother by a police officer, which upset the lad's mother. In our view this was an attempt to intimidate and a totally improper and unnecessary use of police resources, which we communicated to the Chief Constable. Legally, a club has the right to refuse admission without giving a reason, just like pub landlords, private club owners etc. We want to see that changed in football rules, so that public disagreement with the way a club is being run, taking part in peaceful protests about that etc. are not allowable as reasons for a club ban. And we want to see clubs being required to adopt proper procedures in accordance with the principles of natural justice for hearing cases of alleged misbehaviour which might justify a fan being banned. At the moment, the route for these fans and others is to go to the Independent Football Ombudsman. The problem is that it can take literally months for the IFO to conclude his investigation and produce his report and, although in theory the IFO's ruling is supposed to be adopted, in practice sometimes clubs simply ignore his recommendation and nothing happens to them for doing so. Tracey Crouch's Fan-led review report, and the proposed club licensing system, offers a route for improving practices in this area. In fairness, by no means all clubs have poor practice in this area. 'We had a case a couple of years ago where a Club held a hearing which didn't involve any suggestion of criminality, and had the police liaiason officer sitting in on the hearing' in what capacity were they there? were they there during work time or their own time? were they in uniform? abuse of the role surely? In uniform, and in work time. At the very least you can say it was an inappropriate use of scarce police resources, just as it was (different club) to have a police officer delivering letters for a football club !! I suspect that the top brass of the police may well agree which is why we wrote to the Chief Constable ( I think probably in both cases, although I'd have to check with our caseworker). But I'm sure that in both cases the intention of the club was to frighten the fans.
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Post by a on Dec 23, 2021 12:48:31 GMT
'We had a case a couple of years ago where a Club held a hearing which didn't involve any suggestion of criminality, and had the police liaiason officer sitting in on the hearing' in what capacity were they there? were they there during work time or their own time? were they in uniform? abuse of the role surely? In uniform, and in work time. At the very least you can say it was an inappropriate use of scarce police resources, just as it was (different club) to have a police officer delivering letters for a football club !! I suspect that the top brass of the police may well agree which is why we wrote to the Chief Constable ( I think probably in both cases, although I'd have to check with our caseworker). But I'm sure that in both cases the intention of the club was to frighten the fans. That officer would’ve been instructed to attend, which if they were t there for any other reason is both unnecessary and improper. Was there nothing else taking place which warranted their attendance? If not then the duty sgt/inspector directing their staff needs a kick in the arse.
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Post by dirtclod on Dec 23, 2021 14:57:13 GMT
Ban a fan for being negative. This is such a rare and special brand of stupidity that we simply must take a moment to stare at it in wonder. The legalities are enough to make a decent solicitor wealthy. What will the local Police Dept. do when they get that letter? (Hopefully collapse in derisive laughter) Wonder how much the facial recognition software will set them back? Will they seek help from the military? Park a tank astraddle the front gate on match days? A return of the horse-mounted head-bangers? I have a nomination for first name on the list. A person who is attempting great harm not just to Oldham, but to the whole game of football. Arsene Wenger. Given the "Taliban-like" nature of this, when is the first execution for "sedition" scheduled and will it be televised? Or will the fans go on the march - an "Oldham Spring" if you will. Now it gets even better - he's agreeing to "lift the ban" if they apologize! LOL www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/oldham-owner-reverse-fan-ban-25768149Submit to a public caning and you will be forgiven. Edit: Sorry - am determined to enjoy the holidays and couldn't resist.
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Post by thestatusquo on Dec 23, 2021 15:41:46 GMT
It’s a good job they didn’t lose 7 nil at home to Birmingham!!
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Dec 23, 2021 15:46:43 GMT
Ban a fan for being negative. This is such a rare and special brand of stupidity that we simply must take a moment to stare at it in wonder. The legalities are enough to make a decent solicitor wealthy. What will the local Police Dept. do when they get that letter? (Hopefully collapse in derisive laughter) Wonder how much the facial recognition software will set them back? Will they seek help from the military? Park a tank astraddle the front gate on match days? A return of the horse-mounted head-bangers? I have a nomination for first name on the list. A person who is attempting great harm not just to Oldham, but to the whole game of football. Arsene Wenger. Given the "Taliban-like" nature of this, when is the first execution for "sedition" scheduled and will it be televised? Or will the fans go on the march - an "Oldham Spring" if you will. Now it gets even better - he's agreeing to "lift the ban" if they apologize! LOL www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/oldham-owner-reverse-fan-ban-25768149Submit to a public caning and you will be forgiven. Edit: Sorry - am determined to enjoy the holidays and couldn't resist. I enjoyed that, dirtclod. Our caseworker who is helping the fans is now on leave, so I haven't spoken to her, it's their decision but I would be very surprised if they agreed to apologise - neither should they have to. On facial recognition, you may remember some years ago that Paul Scally at Gillingham banned lifelong fan Alan Liptropp for, of all things, refusing to sell the club a domain name !!. All Alan wanted was recognition for the supporters' club in return. Alan did succesfully adopt a variety of disguises - false beards, flat caps, glasses etc. until one day an alert steward spotted him and out he went. He also went to away games, including at the Brit. The Gills fans hired a plane with a banner to fly over the matches on more than one occasion. These fans were there long before the current owner appeared and will be there long after he's gone.
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Post by dirtclod on Dec 23, 2021 15:55:17 GMT
Imagine having to wear a disguise! Tinker, Tailor Soldier Spy.
You've reminded me of something: An energized (or enraged) fanbase CAN move a mountain once in a while.
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Post by ohbottom on Dec 23, 2021 16:06:34 GMT
Ey, Is that cultural appropriation?! 😂 It's allowed, it's only Australia The convicts probably nicked it in the first place
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 24, 2021 18:19:56 GMT
This will not end well for the owner. His own board obviously don't even agree with him What an absolute prick. To be fair to Scholsey he could of had me and hundreds of others on here banned here for chucking pelters at him. But to be fair he took the criticism on board and took our advice to collect his golden p45. Tarra Tony.
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Post by dirtclod on Dec 25, 2021 2:34:31 GMT
Seeing that... Only thing I can come up with is choking noises and a possible fart. [But that's an hour into the future]
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Post by marrer on Dec 25, 2021 6:33:35 GMT
Joking aside, how fucking sinister is it that he makes a point of saying he's forwarded the letter to the police. Can you imagine that a few years ago? It would be the recipient with a mind to contact the police about the matter, not the sender of the letter.. the fact that he feels confident enough in his righteousness that he can inform the authorities about it and presumably count on their backing is, in my opinion, a symptom of our cultural climate and a by-product of the long-running police crackdown on speech and "offence". But maybe that's a discussion for another day. Either way it looks pretty shocking. Is the FSA on this Malcolm Clarke? Unless they've committed a criminal offence what are the police going to do? Are they really going to be interested in a Twatter spat? Plus it's down to the police to apply for a banning order (I think) not the club. The club can ban anyone they want from their property but they can't stop them watching footy elsewhere. ie at away grounds. Unless they've committed a criminal offence and the courts ban them. My dad found a porno mag (fairly explicit in the day with Mary Millington) when I was about 14. He was so shocked he took it to the police. Not sure it was a criminal matter, bless him, but I think the police enjoyed it.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Dec 25, 2021 9:14:30 GMT
Unless they've committed a criminal offence what are the police going to do? Are they really going to be interested in a Twatter spat? Plus it's down to the police to apply for a banning order (I think) not the club. The club can ban anyone they want from their property but they can't stop them watching footy elsewhere. ie at away grounds. Unless they've committed a criminal offence and the courts ban them. My dad found a porno mag (fairly explicit in the day with Mary Millington) when I was about 14. He was so shocked he took it to the police. Not sure it was a criminal matter, bless him, but I think the police enjoyed it. 🤣🤣🤣
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 25, 2021 9:54:59 GMT
Good grief this is a truly harrowing story. It's like some creepy dictatorship.
What's next? Fans banned for swearing?
The management at Oldham should be called out for the disgrace it is.
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Post by tejstokie on Dec 26, 2021 17:55:36 GMT
Mini Hitler's everywhere since covid, people have lost the plot. Won't be long until you have to ask permission to shit or leave your domicile.
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