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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 30, 2021 10:52:21 GMT
I don't see it Rob. Maybe I'm thinking of years gone by with better players but I just don't see these guys as being remotely exciting players. I'm not denying Powell is an excellent player for us but he's not played as an AM in that role where he can pick the ball up in those areas, drive forward and make things happen. More often than not we lump it up to him. Thankfully he's pretty good in the air and he's scored a shit load of headers. Frankly, Campbell is a complete unknown at the moment. Clearly he's been nowhere in the cameos we've seen so far but we need to give him game time and see if he can get anywhere close to the performances of last year. So is it more in terms of what you'd like to see aesthetically than what we actually need, Nick? Because it was working pretty well with those players, certainly with Powell in the side? I think Powell's headers have come from good balls from out wide and set pieces rather than 'lumping it up'. We weren't doing that at the start of the season and if anything we should be doing it more at the moment because we don't have any presence in midfield. It's both mate. You know I've always loved a flair player but I do think we are crying out for an out an out attacking mid with flair, directness, pace and someone who can pick it up in those tight areas. I mean I'd argue we should be playing with wingers too but that's kind of irrelevent because he's not going to do that. You can get the most amazing defensive midfielder on the planet, but he's still not going to transform Joe Allen, Thompson, Sawyers, Vrancic etc into guys who can play in the hole and do the above. Having a player like Dembele (just as an example) would make a world of difference to our home performances in my opinion.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 30, 2021 10:54:51 GMT
Isn't that exactly what Vrancic is? I don't think he gets into our best XI (Powell does) but in tight spaces up the pitch he's excellent. I've been pretty disappointed with Vrancic. I was never expecting him to be an exciting player but I thought he'd be one of the first names on the team sheet, particularly with our crap midfield. I think he's been ok. He's not consistent enough but then if he was he wouldn't be at Stoke. Good back up to Powell and good for starting 15ish games for me. I do think people have gone ott about him though. But overall he's been fine and can see the space and play the pass. But I think at the moment he's just been used too much, is knackered and we don't have the players behind him to give him the platform to play from.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 30, 2021 10:55:22 GMT
So is it more in terms of what you'd like to see aesthetically than what we actually need, Nick? Because it was working pretty well with those players, certainly with Powell in the side? I think Powell's headers have come from good balls from out wide and set pieces rather than 'lumping it up'. We weren't doing that at the start of the season and if anything we should be doing it more at the moment because we don't have any presence in midfield. It's both mate. You know I've always loved a flair player but I do think we are crying out for an out an out attacking mid with flair, directness, pace and someone who can pick it up in those tight areas. I mean I'd argue we should be playing with wingers too but that's kind of irrelevent because he's not going to do that. You can get the most amazing defensive midfielder on the planet, but he's still not going to transform Joe Allen, Thompson, Sawyers, Vrancic etc into guys who can play in the hole and do the above. Having a player like Dembele (just as an example) would make a world of difference to our home performances in my opinion. I think having one would transform things to be honest mate as again, we've already shown we're capable of creating chances with a double pivot providing a bit of protection. Our best two performances of the season against Swansea and West Brom had that kind of mix. We just need to get back to that.
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Post by femark on Nov 30, 2021 10:55:37 GMT
We have flair players and exciting players in Powell, Vrancic and Campbell. I think the OP is talking about the quick, skillful ball carriers that we don't have.
The bloke from Peterborough looks fancy enough but it never really got him anywhere...
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 30, 2021 11:02:33 GMT
It's both mate. You know I've always loved a flair player but I do think we are crying out for an out an out attacking mid with flair, directness, pace and someone who can pick it up in those tight areas. I mean I'd argue we should be playing with wingers too but that's kind of irrelevent because he's not going to do that. You can get the most amazing defensive midfielder on the planet, but he's still not going to transform Joe Allen, Thompson, Sawyers, Vrancic etc into guys who can play in the hole and do the above. Having a player like Dembele (just as an example) would make a world of difference to our home performances in my opinion. I think having one would transform things to be honest mate as again, we've already shown we're capable of creating chances with a double pivot providing a bit of protection. Our best two performances of the season against Swansea and West Brom had that kind of mix. We just need to get back to that. I do agree at Swansea and at home to West Brom we were very good those free flowing performances are starting to feel like the exception, not the norm. Dont get me wrong I'm absolutely all for us getting a decent DM as well, because our current options are crap. There is a guy who would have been perfect for us right now, who could get the crowd off their seat on those cold, wintery afternoons, gliding past cumbersome championship defenders at ease and picking up the ball in those tight areas. I think he's out in Japan 😉
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 11:03:49 GMT
I think we lack a boring player, a midfielder who breaks up the play, plays boring passes that always go to their intended target but doesn’t try anything too fancy, a player who rarely takes on his man, a player with a lot of stamina, a player who relies on his brain instead of blistering pace, a player who needs to offer nothing in the final third because that is not his job. Preferably one who is as angry as Roy Kent. 'Roy Kent'? It's Clark Kent we need right now! Clark Kent was extremely boring to be fair. Have you never read Action Comics #138?
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Post by gingerninja on Nov 30, 2021 11:07:40 GMT
Swansea away was the benchmark for me, at times a thrilling rode, swift pass and move, since then and probably West Brom, we've stuttered. We suddenly seem ponderous and slow moving again.
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Post by moon on Nov 30, 2021 11:08:01 GMT
I think we lack a boring player, a midfielder who breaks up the play, plays boring passes that always go to their intended target but doesn’t try anything too fancy, a player who rarely takes on his man, a player with a lot of stamina, a player who relies on his brain instead of blistering pace, a player who needs to offer nothing in the final third because that is not his job. Preferably one who is as angry as Roy Kent. Really?! Absolutely, I love watching flair players but I don't think it is what we need right now.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Nov 30, 2021 11:14:11 GMT
I thought Rothwell was their stand out player by some distance.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 30, 2021 11:31:10 GMT
I think having one would transform things to be honest mate as again, we've already shown we're capable of creating chances with a double pivot providing a bit of protection. Our best two performances of the season against Swansea and West Brom had that kind of mix. We just need to get back to that. I do agree at Swansea and at home to West Brom we were very good those free flowing performances are starting to feel like the exception, not the norm. Dont get me wrong I'm absolutely all for us getting a decent DM as well, because our current options are crap. There is a guy who would have been perfect for us right now, who could get the crowd off their seat on those cold, wintery afternoons, gliding past cumbersome championship defenders at ease and picking up the ball in those tight areas. I think he's out in Japan 😉 How's he getting on there?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 30, 2021 11:40:19 GMT
I do agree at Swansea and at home to West Brom we were very good those free flowing performances are starting to feel like the exception, not the norm. Dont get me wrong I'm absolutely all for us getting a decent DM as well, because our current options are crap. There is a guy who would have been perfect for us right now, who could get the crowd off their seat on those cold, wintery afternoons, gliding past cumbersome championship defenders at ease and picking up the ball in those tight areas. I think he's out in Japan 😉 How's he getting on there? Excellent until he got injured 😂
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 11:41:47 GMT
Understand your point mate and I'm not saying we don't need a competent holding midfielder, but I still don't feel Vrancic and Sawyers would ever be those guys. Frankly I don't rate Sawyers at all. Vrancic is clearly a fairly competent midfielder but I still don't see him as your midfielder for tight spaces, who will leave players for dead and open things up for the front men. The guys 33 next season and has struggled to hold his place down at times this season. Powell's not really been utilised by O'Neil in that attacking midfield role so again, even if we had that strong defensive mid, we're still going to end up with his hapless gap between the front men and the rest of the side. And to the point, an unexciting (albeit at times efficient) team. I don't think that's actually what we've seen though this season mate, when Powell's been fit and we've had that balance. We were up there with the top chance creators in the division in August and September up to an including the West Brom game at the start of October. Get Powell, Campbell and one of Vrancic/Sawyers into the side in roles that suit them and with some protection and I think this is quite an exciting, front-foot team. Agreed. We've already seen it this season. Some people have very, very short memories.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 30, 2021 11:45:08 GMT
How's he getting on there? Excellent until he got injured 😂 He seems to have only started one game?
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Post by NassauDave on Nov 30, 2021 12:09:16 GMT
I think we lack a boring player, a midfielder who breaks up the play, plays boring passes that always go to their intended target but doesn’t try anything too fancy, a player who rarely takes on his man, a player with a lot of stamina, a player who relies on his brain instead of blistering pace, a player who needs to offer nothing in the final third because that is not his job. Preferably one who is as angry as Roy Kent. 'Roy Kent'? It's Clark Kent we need right now! Or his brother Fackin.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Nov 30, 2021 12:19:47 GMT
We lack mobility. It's still a massive problem for us. Other than Tymon and Campbell, there is nobody remotely pacey (there's Doughty but he doesn't play). What Blackburn had was players who had the ability to just change pace and break the lines, in particular Joe Rothwell just blistered past our midfield a few times.
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Post by adamsson on Nov 30, 2021 12:37:28 GMT
I think we lack a boring player, a midfielder who breaks up the play, plays boring passes that always go to their intended target but doesn’t try anything too fancy, a player who rarely takes on his man, a player with a lot of stamina, a player who relies on his brain instead of blistering pace, a player who needs to offer nothing in the final third because that is not his job. Preferably one who is as angry as Roy Kent. I suppose Allen is supposed to do this but...
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Post by PotterLog on Nov 30, 2021 12:38:24 GMT
A spine of Bursik, Souttar, Powell and Campbell is certainly exciting when they're all fit, but alas that hasn't yet happened....... Pretty depressing seeing that list like that. Arguably our four best players and not one of them really fit for a starting XI. Will we ever see them all in the same team? That’s probably the reason the OP feels we need dynamism more than anything else.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 12:51:54 GMT
I think we're crying out to have our injured players back as a match for anyone with a full 11. Sadly it seems such a long time since we've had that option. I don't think is an exciting player we need in Jan, in fact the complete opposite for me. Someone to do the dirty work.
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Post by potterburt on Nov 30, 2021 13:07:21 GMT
So it seems the general consensus is that we actually do have exciting players at the club, what we actually need is some grit behind them to allow them the freedom to go and be exciting.
And all this hyperbole with out even addressing the glaringly obvious gleaming elephant in the room that the pitfall in the idea of just ‘going and getting an exciting player’ is that we have had zero money to spend while having to overhaul a squad of reprobates.
Does any championship club just go and get an ‘exciting’ player? Who else has recently been and got got, that fits that label? Few and far between, I’m sure every acquisition of a vague attacking nature is made with the intention that they will be somewhat ‘exciting’.
It’s a bit basic to just say that an ‘exciting’ player is all that we need. I think more importantly it would be for fans to adjust their overtly grandiose expectations of our club, squad and situation.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 13:45:52 GMT
So it seems the general consensus is that we actually do have exciting players at the club, what we actually need is some grit behind them to allow them the freedom to go and be exciting. And all this hyperbole with out even addressing the glaringly obvious gleaming elephant in the room that the pitfall in the idea of just ‘going and getting an exciting player’ is that we have had zero money to spend while having to overhaul a squad of reprobates. Does any championship club just go and get an ‘exciting’ player? Who else has recently been and got got, that fits that label? Few and far between, I’m sure every acquisition of a vague attacking nature is made with the intention that they will be somewhat ‘exciting’. It’s a bit basic to just say that an ‘exciting’ player is all that we need. I think more importantly it would be for fans to adjust their overtly grandiose expectations of our club, squad and situation. And also learn to cope with defeats when they inevitably happen.
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Post by klingon on Nov 30, 2021 14:23:00 GMT
I'll say it again - what about that youth from Fleetwood?
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Post by gingerninja on Nov 30, 2021 14:32:18 GMT
MON is a massive fan of Rothwell, I was surprised we didn't make a move for him in the summer.
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Post by lordb on Nov 30, 2021 14:51:56 GMT
Powell, Vrancic and Campbell? Are there three more exciting or better in their respective positions in the division? Really? Sorry but Vrancic is absolutely not an "exciting player". He's a fairly solid championship midfielder but he's hardly the guy to get you off your seat. Powell is a top player for us and definitely as close to a flair as anything we have but I'd say he's extremely efficient over exciting. Campbell looks all over the place at the moment. this didn't get you off your seat?
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Post by somersetstokie on Nov 30, 2021 15:11:34 GMT
"We are crying out for an exciting player"
We have got Tom Ince apparently being kept in a cupboard somewhere! And D'Margio Wright-Phillips.
Together with Alfie Doughty they do offer a few options in the maverick player department.
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Post by stokecitytalke on Nov 30, 2021 16:38:28 GMT
'Roy Kent'? It's Clark Kent we need right now! Or his brother Fackin. I once worked with a chap called Hugh Kent, I think his middle name was Fackin.
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Post by boweryboy on Nov 30, 2021 16:40:39 GMT
Out of all the players that are injured that we are supposed to be missing, only two were permanent starters,Suttar and Powell,the rest have been in and out under O'Neill.
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Post by stokecitytalke on Nov 30, 2021 16:43:07 GMT
MON is a massive fan of Rothwell, I was surprised we didn't make a move for him in the summer. Maybe this summer? 'On 22 June 2018, Rothwell joined Blackburn Rovers for an undisclosed fee. He signed a three-year deal'
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Nov 30, 2021 16:48:05 GMT
Isn't that exactly what Vrancic is? I don't think he gets into our best XI (Powell does) but in tight spaces up the pitch he's excellent. I've been pretty disappointed with Vrancic. I was never expecting him to be an exciting player but I thought he'd be one of the first names on the team sheet, particularly with our crap midfield. Yeah hugely disappointing, I mean he’s only been involved in the majority of goals we’ve scored so far this season. WTF would be good enough for you?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 30, 2021 16:53:06 GMT
I've been pretty disappointed with Vrancic. I was never expecting him to be an exciting player but I thought he'd be one of the first names on the team sheet, particularly with our crap midfield. Yeah hugely disappointing, I mean he’s only been involved in the majority of goals we’ve scored so far this season. WTF would be good enough for you? What? No he hasn't. 😂
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 30, 2021 16:54:23 GMT
Really? Sorry but Vrancic is absolutely not an "exciting player". He's a fairly solid championship midfielder but he's hardly the guy to get you off your seat. Powell is a top player for us and definitely as close to a flair as anything we have but I'd say he's extremely efficient over exciting. Campbell looks all over the place at the moment. this didn't get you off your seat? Mate you can't just pull out one random game where we played well and say "there you go....we're exciting"... Completely dismissing the past two years of largely turgid stuff 😂😂
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