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Post by chiswickpotter on Nov 5, 2021 11:10:11 GMT
Our overall performances have better since he left, but that might be a coincidence. Our midfield three is the least well defined area of the preferred 3-5-2 formation and adding another player might further complicate the situation. However, we do need someone with Mikkel’s experience to play behind the two number 8s and in front of the back three. I have made no secret of the fact that I don’t rate Allen as a player or a leader, and I’d take Mikkel over Allen in that position any day of the week. MON has made it clear he doesn’t want a defensive midfield player like Whelan so bringing back Mikkel might appeal to him as an alternative to Allen. Both Allen and Mikkel have the same years of experience but Mikkel was a regular in some very good sides and he knows what a disciplined well organized team is supposed to look like. Allen has never held down a regular spot in a very good team and he doesn’t seem to have acquired self-discipline to stay in position, which is essential when playing in front of a back three whose flanks are exposed if the wing backs push too far forward. That’s exactly how we lost four games in a row and nearly lost a fifth because the opposition exposed that weakness to great effect, got behind Smith and Tymon and fired balls into the danger area. I can think of a goal in the last 5 games, Allen was remotely at fault for. The central midfield player is not the one to cover the wing backs that is the job of the right centre back and right midfielder in the right and simile on the left. Mikel never tracked back and would be a retrograde step defensively. Last thing we need |
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Post by silverdollar on Nov 5, 2021 11:14:15 GMT
Sometimes I wonder how much football people like yourself have ever watched! It is mind blowing how two such good quality players such as Mikel and Allen can be castigated. In the last 50 years our midfield heroes at the club have included Eastham, Violet, Skeels, O'Connor, Whelan, Hudson, Eustace and of course the very best was NZonzi. There may be more who slip my mind at this very moment but I would argue that in terms of those players the previously mentioned Mikel and Allen compare favourably with the majority of them and we are most unlikely to bring in another NZonzi in a hurry. Please remember that at present we are a mediocre Championship team! We are also unable to spend much money! Nzonzi was very good. But he was no where near Alan Hudson Alan Hudson was a tremendous player in his time but those times were much different than the present day. Alan Hudson lacked discipline and drank like a fish. So did the players he came up against! NZonzi was an athlete in his prime and also a tremendous player. It is impossible to constuctively come to a conclusion about who was the better player! Two totally different eras! |
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Nov 5, 2021 11:19:52 GMT
No way, the player did not want to play for us, he made that clear so why have a old player back when we are looking for the future, just hope Allen goes next hes another player living on past club fame Sometimes I wonder how much football people like yourself have ever watched! It is mind blowing how two such good quality players such as Mikel and Allen can be castigated. In the last 50 years our midfield heroes at the club have included Eastham, Violet, Skeels, O'Connor, Whelan, Hudson, Eustace and of course the very best was NZonzi. There may be more who slip my mind at this very moment but I would argue that in terms of those players the previously mentioned Mikel and Allen compare favourably with the majority of them and we are most unlikely to bring in another NZonzi in a hurry. Please remember that at present we are a mediocre Championship team! We are also unable to spend much money! Mikel and Allen? Good quality players? Are you taking the piss? |
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Post by banksisgod on Nov 5, 2021 11:24:06 GMT
If MO'N could resist the temptation to start JOM, bringing him on instead after, say, 65 minutes to shore up the middle, and calm things down, I can't really see a downside. Had he been there to bring on in these circumstances against Cardiff, for example, I don't think there is any chance we'd have dropped those two points. You could make the same argument for the games where we led and ultimately lost.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 5, 2021 11:27:36 GMT
Sometimes I wonder how much football people like yourself have ever watched! It is mind blowing how two such good quality players such as Mikel and Allen can be castigated. In the last 50 years our midfield heroes at the club have included Eastham, Violet, Skeels, O'Connor, Whelan, Hudson, Eustace and of course the very best was NZonzi. There may be more who slip my mind at this very moment but I would argue that in terms of those players the previously mentioned Mikel and Allen compare favourably with the majority of them and we are most unlikely to bring in another NZonzi in a hurry. Please remember that at present we are a mediocre Championship team! We are also unable to spend much money! Mikel and Allen? Good quality players? Are you taking the piss? Mikel in his day was for sure. But not for us. |
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Post by zerps on Nov 5, 2021 11:30:02 GMT
No way, the player did not want to play for us, he made that clear so why have a old player back when we are looking for the future, just hope Allen goes next hes another player living on past club fame Sometimes I wonder how much football people like yourself have ever watched! It is mind blowing how two such good quality players such as Mikel and Allen can be castigated. In the last 50 years our midfield heroes at the club have included Eastham, Violet, Skeels, O'Connor, Whelan, Hudson, Eustace and of course the very best was NZonzi. There may be more who slip my mind at this very moment but I would argue that in terms of those players the previously mentioned Mikel and Allen compare favourably with the majority of them and we are most unlikely to bring in another NZonzi in a hurry. Please remember that at present we are a mediocre Championship team! We are also unable to spend much money! Mikel the player that’s just been released by Kuwait after playing zero league games? |
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Post by kustokie on Nov 5, 2021 11:38:02 GMT
Our overall performances have better since he left, but that might be a coincidence. Our midfield three is the least well defined area of the preferred 3-5-2 formation and adding another player might further complicate the situation. However, we do need someone with Mikkel’s experience to play behind the two number 8s and in front of the back three. I have made no secret of the fact that I don’t rate Allen as a player or a leader, and I’d take Mikkel over Allen in that position any day of the week. MON has made it clear he doesn’t want a defensive midfield player like Whelan so bringing back Mikkel might appeal to him as an alternative to Allen. Both Allen and Mikkel have the same years of experience but Mikkel was a regular in some very good sides and he knows what a disciplined well organized team is supposed to look like. Allen has never held down a regular spot in a very good team and he doesn’t seem to have acquired self-discipline to stay in position, which is essential when playing in front of a back three whose flanks are exposed if the wing backs push too far forward. That’s exactly how we lost four games in a row and nearly lost a fifth because the opposition exposed that weakness to great effect, got behind Smith and Tymon and fired balls into the danger area. I can think of a goal in the last 5 games, Allen was remotely at fault for. The central midfield player is not the one to cover the wing backs that is the job of the right centre back and right midfielder in the right and simile on the left. Mikel never tracked back and would be a retrograde step defensively. Last thing we need His job is not to cover the wingback per se, but if he gets out of position a space in front of the back three is created for a through ball between two of the center backs for the opposition wingbacks to run onto if the our wingbacks get too far forward. |
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Post by kustokie on Nov 5, 2021 11:52:22 GMT
No way, the player did not want to play for us, he made that clear so why have a old player back when we are looking for the future, just hope Allen goes next hes another player living on past club fame Sometimes I wonder how much football people like yourself have ever watched! It is mind blowing how two such good quality players such as Mikel and Allen can be castigated. In the last 50 years our midfield heroes at the club have included Eastham, Violet, Skeels, O'Connor, Whelan, Hudson, Eustace and of course the very best was NZonzi. There may be more who slip my mind at this very moment but I would argue that in terms of those players the previously mentioned Mikel and Allen compare favourably with the majority of them and we are most unlikely to bring in another NZonzi in a hurry. Please remember that at present we are a mediocre Championship team! We are also unable to spend much money! Nzonzi was a moody player who didn’t stick around very long long and couldn’t hold a candle to George Eastman or Alan Hudson. On player you left out was Peter Dobing who was unplayable when he could be bothered because he preferred fishing to football. Waddo’s master stroke was to make him captain. I’ll go to my grave recalling the pass he made TC who the best goal I ever saw at the old Vic in the game we beat Arsenal 5-0 in the year Arsenal won the double which hadn’t been done for 10 years. I know we oldies bang on to much about the Waddington years but it was a special time. I often recall a fairly recent interview with Eastham who spoke of how special that group of players was and it would cost a fortune to build that team today. It was a magical time, especially for a youngster like me who grew in that time. |
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Post by pez75 on Nov 5, 2021 11:57:55 GMT
I can think of a goal in the last 5 games, Allen was remotely at fault for. The central midfield player is not the one to cover the wing backs that is the job of the right centre back and right midfielder in the right and simile on the left. Mikel never tracked back and would be a retrograde step defensively. Last thing we need His job is not to cover the wingback per se, but if he gets out of position a space in front of the back three is created for a through ball between two of the center backs for the opposition wingbacks to run onto if the our wingbacks get too far forward. Strange, for a player who according to the Oatcake illuninati is so often out of position or impersonating a 'headless chicken' he does seem to be strangely popular with all his managers for both club and country? |
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Post by Gods on Nov 5, 2021 12:31:23 GMT
Can anyone make head or tail of this which is given as the reason for his sacking? >>According to totorinews, Mikel John Obi had refused to compensate the Nigerian youth, Michael Okafor, who linked him to the Kuwaiti premiership club. He has been sacked for refusing to pay an agent? Either way there's not a snow balls chance in hell we would have him back, he talked a good game but turned out to be a compete waster. Why is it so obvious we wouldn’t have him back? Oneil liked him. Made him captain several times. Triggered his contract for him to be with us this season. He left amicably after a gentleman’s agreement. Wouldn’t be such definite that we wouldn’t entertain the idea of him coming back. My mistake, I should have said I wouldn't have him back! |
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Post by silverdollar on Nov 5, 2021 12:34:08 GMT
Sometimes I wonder how much football people like yourself have ever watched! It is mind blowing how two such good quality players such as Mikel and Allen can be castigated. In the last 50 years our midfield heroes at the club have included Eastham, Violet, Skeels, O'Connor, Whelan, Hudson, Eustace and of course the very best was NZonzi. There may be more who slip my mind at this very moment but I would argue that in terms of those players the previously mentioned Mikel and Allen compare favourably with the majority of them and we are most unlikely to bring in another NZonzi in a hurry. Please remember that at present we are a mediocre Championship team! We are also unable to spend much money! Mikel and Allen? Good quality players? Are you taking the piss? I don't mind constructive argument to your reasoning but perhaps your response reflects your level of intelligence! |
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Post by mattythestokie on Nov 5, 2021 12:38:38 GMT
Why is it so obvious we wouldn’t have him back? Oneil liked him. Made him captain several times. Triggered his contract for him to be with us this season. He left amicably after a gentleman’s agreement. Wouldn’t be such definite that we wouldn’t entertain the idea of him coming back. My mistake, I should have said I wouldn't have him back! Yeah i agree with that then. He’s not what we need and we certainly don’t need any more squad filling central midfielders. |
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Post by silverdollar on Nov 5, 2021 12:42:45 GMT
Sometimes I wonder how much football people like yourself have ever watched! It is mind blowing how two such good quality players such as Mikel and Allen can be castigated. In the last 50 years our midfield heroes at the club have included Eastham, Violet, Skeels, O'Connor, Whelan, Hudson, Eustace and of course the very best was NZonzi. There may be more who slip my mind at this very moment but I would argue that in terms of those players the previously mentioned Mikel and Allen compare favourably with the majority of them and we are most unlikely to bring in another NZonzi in a hurry. Please remember that at present we are a mediocre Championship team! We are also unable to spend much money! Nzonzi was a moody player who didn’t stick around very long long and couldn’t hold a candle to George Eastman or Alan Hudson. On player you left out was Peter Dobing who was unplayable when he could be bothered because he preferred fishing to football. Waddo’s master stroke was to make him captain. I’ll go to my grave recalling the pass he made TC who the best goal I ever saw at the old Vic in the game we beat Arsenal 5-0 in the year Arsenal won the double which hadn’t been done for 10 years. I know we oldies bang on to much about the Waddington years but it was a special time. I often recall a fairly recent interview with Eastham who spoke of how special that group of players was and it would cost a fortune to build that team today. It was a magical time, especially for a youngster like me who grew in that time. You might have brilliant memories of previous Stoke City stars but statement concerning candles is just ridiculous. Athletic performance of top footballers has moved on tremendously in the last thirty years. You just cannot realistically compare footballer from different eras. |
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Nov 5, 2021 13:04:45 GMT
Mikel and Allen? Good quality players? Are you taking the piss? I don't mind constructive argument to your reasoning but perhaps your response reflects your level of intelligence! My level of intelligence is quite clearly superior to someone who thinks Joe Allen & John Obi Mikel were anything other than an abject disaster for this football club. |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Nov 5, 2021 13:11:28 GMT
Nzonzi was very good. But he was no where near Alan Hudson Alan Hudson was a tremendous player in his time but those times were much different than the present day. Alan Hudson lacked discipline and drank like a fish. So did the players he came up against! NZonzi was an athlete in his prime and also a tremendous player. It is impossible to constuctively come to a conclusion about who was the better player! Two totally different eras! Mate I agree with your sentiment but you’re wrong over Hudson. Did you see the pitches Hudson performed his magic on? Games would be abandoned today if a pitch was like the one at the Vic and most of the others at that time. Hudson floated over the morass and was simply a genius. Nzonzi was a great player but not in the same league. |
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Post by OldStokie on Nov 5, 2021 14:46:59 GMT
Alan Hudson was a tremendous player in his time but those times were much different than the present day. Alan Hudson lacked discipline and drank like a fish. So did the players he came up against! NZonzi was an athlete in his prime and also a tremendous player. It is impossible to constuctively come to a conclusion about who was the better player! Two totally different eras! Mate I agree with your sentiment but you’re wrong over Hudson. Did you see the pitches Hudson performed his magic on? Games would be abandoned today if a pitch was like the one at the Vic and most of the others at that time. Hudson floated over the morass and was simply a genius. Nzonzi was a great player but not in the same league. Although I know where silverdollar is coming from regarding athleticism etc in today's modern game, those views are at best, spurious. In my over 70 years of watching Stoke, nobody has even come close to the genius of Hudson as a midfielder. And the argument that you can't compare yesterday's players with today's falls flat when you mention such names as Maradonna, Pele, Cruyf, Puskas, Mathews, Best, Greaves, Banks, Yashin, Franklin etc. Is anyone seriously suggesting they wouldn't still be top world class players today? Seriously? OS. |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Nov 5, 2021 15:27:12 GMT
Mate I agree with your sentiment but you’re wrong over Hudson. Did you see the pitches Hudson performed his magic on? Games would be abandoned today if a pitch was like the one at the Vic and most of the others at that time. Hudson floated over the morass and was simply a genius. Nzonzi was a great player but not in the same league. Although I know where silverdollar is coming from regarding athleticism etc in today's modern game, those views are at best, spurious. In my over 70 years of watching Stoke, nobody has even come close to the genius of Hudson as a midfielder. And the argument that you can't compare yesterday's players with today's falls flat when you mention such names as Maradonna, Pele, Cruyf, Puskas, Mathews, Best, Greaves, Banks, Yashin, Franklin etc. Is anyone seriously suggesting they wouldn't still be top world class players today? Seriously? OS. Agree mate. I think Hudson would be even better today because of the carpets they play on just as I’m sure Nzonzi would have been a great player back in the day as well. |
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Post by silverdollar on Nov 5, 2021 16:02:18 GMT
I don't mind constructive argument to your reasoning but perhaps your response reflects your level of intelligence! My level of intelligence is quite clearly superior to someone who thinks Joe Allen & John Obi Mikel were anything other than an abject disaster for this football club. I thought so! Look at both your responses! I will refrain from embarrassing you further. |
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Nov 5, 2021 16:22:01 GMT
Sometimes I wonder how much football people like yourself have ever watched! It is mind blowing how two such good quality players such as Mikel and Allen can be castigated. In the last 50 years our midfield heroes at the club have included Eastham, Violet, Skeels, O'Connor, Whelan, Hudson, Eustace and of course the very best was NZonzi. There may be more who slip my mind at this very moment but I would argue that in terms of those players the previously mentioned Mikel and Allen compare favourably with the majority of them and we are most unlikely to bring in another NZonzi in a hurry. Please remember that at present we are a mediocre Championship team! We are also unable to spend much money! On player you left out was Peter Dobing who was unplayable when he could be bothered because he preferred fishing to football. Waddo’s master stroke was to make him captain. I’ll go to my grave recalling the pass he made TC who the best goal I ever saw at the old Vic in the game we beat Arsenal 5-0 in the year Arsenal won the double which hadn’t been done for 10 years. I know we oldies bang on to much about the Waddington years but it was a special time. I often recall a fairly recent interview with Eastham who spoke of how special that group of players was and it would cost a fortune to build that team today. It was a magical time, especially for a youngster like me who grew in that time. Nzonzi was at Stoke for 3 seasons (100+ league games, more than he's played for any other club), as was Hudson until he returned at the end of his career and didn't play all that much. |
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Post by robwahlmann on Nov 5, 2021 16:27:39 GMT
I really thought Mikel was finding his feet in our team! I still think a short term contract till the summer would be a good move for both us and him.  |
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Nov 5, 2021 16:36:39 GMT
My level of intelligence is quite clearly superior to someone who thinks Joe Allen & John Obi Mikel were anything other than an abject disaster for this football club. I thought so! Look at both your responses! I will refrain from embarrassing you further. You're the one who's filling his knickers full of piss at two nothing posts. Grow up. |
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Post by potterfox1011 on Nov 5, 2021 17:15:13 GMT
Sometimes I wonder how much football people like yourself have ever watched! It is mind blowing how two such good quality players such as Mikel and Allen can be castigated. In the last 50 years our midfield heroes at the club have included Eastham, Violet, Skeels, O'Connor, Whelan, Hudson, Eustace and of course the very best was NZonzi. There may be more who slip my mind at this very moment but I would argue that in terms of those players the previously mentioned Mikel and Allen compare favourably with the majority of them and we are most unlikely to bring in another NZonzi in a hurry. Please remember that at present we are a mediocre Championship team! We are also unable to spend much money! Nzonzi was very good. But he was no where near Alan Hudson Alan Hudson was just a magical player who had every thing.anyone who thinks there was a better stoke player get on you tube look at the old games.he was unbelievable |
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Nov 5, 2021 17:49:28 GMT
Any better than Allen? Yes or no? Yes? Get him in
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Post by chad on Nov 5, 2021 17:49:35 GMT
Although I know where silverdollar is coming from regarding athleticism etc in today's modern game, those views are at best, spurious. In my over 70 years of watching Stoke, nobody has even come close to the genius of Hudson as a midfielder. And the argument that you can't compare yesterday's players with today's falls flat when you mention such names as Maradonna, Pele, Cruyf, Puskas, Mathews, Best, Greaves, Banks, Yashin, Franklin etc. Is anyone seriously suggesting they wouldn't still be top world class players today? Seriously? OS. Agree mate. I think Hudson would be even better today because of the carpets they play on just as I’m sure Nzonzi would have been a great player back in the day as well. Hudson did himself no favours with his lifestyle and yet was still a genius With today’s stricter regimes he really could have been one of the worlds best. For those who were never privileged to see him it’s difficult to get across just how good he was I’ve been going for 57 years and he was without doubt the best Stoke player I ever saw |
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Post by kustokie on Nov 5, 2021 18:02:27 GMT
His job is not to cover the wingback per se, but if he gets out of position a space in front of the back three is created for a through ball between two of the center backs for the opposition wingbacks to run onto if the our wingbacks get too far forward. Strange, for a player who according to the Oatcake illuninati is so often out of position or impersonating a 'headless chicken' he does seem to be strangely popular with all his managers for both club and country? I don’t get it either, but there it is. |
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Post by ceejays on Nov 5, 2021 19:29:37 GMT
Hudson was head and shoulders THE best ever player I’ve seen in 63 years of support. As someone said above he played on ploughed fields. Played Souness off the park on his debut. Then played Germany off the park at Wembley. Just so many memories of truly great player. When u think we had our Gordon too in and around that era we were blessed. Greenhouse Jack knife headed at Sheffield Wednesday sticks in my mind. One of the great pictures ever taken. Dobing was lightening quick. Probably the fastest I’ve seen . In the modern era skill wise Arnie was up there. Could kill a ball on a sixpence. But Hudson gave me more memories than any player. I remember watching him at Stafford Rangers in some friendly. I could hear every word said on the pitch and he just was brilliant to listen to as he played his passes. Of course it was virtually a no contact game but brilliant just the same. Never be another like him
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Post by cheadlestokie on Nov 5, 2021 20:30:44 GMT
For me no one was better than Hudson.
But what I can say for sure is that I wish we could have both Hudson and Nzonzi playing in the current team.
They would be something to watch
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Post by spoton on Nov 5, 2021 21:37:16 GMT
No way, the player did not want to play for us, he made that clear so why have a old player back when we are looking for the future, just hope Allen goes next hes another player living on past club fame Sometimes I wonder how much football people like yourself have ever watched! It is mind blowing how two such good quality players such as Mikel and Allen can be castigated. In the last 50 years our midfield heroes at the club have included Eastham, Violet, Skeels, O'Connor, Whelan, Hudson, Eustace and of course the very best was NZonzi. There may be more who slip my mind at this very moment but I would argue that in terms of those players the previously mentioned Mikel and Allen compare favourably with the majority of them and we are most unlikely to bring in another NZonzi in a hurry. Please remember that at present we are a mediocre Championship team! We are also unable to spend much money! Think you are losing it ALLEN and MIKEL couldn't lace their boots both over rated by you they have not and did not played well consistently for us ,dont you wonder how much football ive watched, I wonder what rubbish you will come out with next, you seem to have rose-coloured glasses on regarding these two mediocre players ,have we really missed MIKEL i dont think so and we wont miss ALLEN either |
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Post by greenhoff on Nov 5, 2021 22:48:05 GMT
Nzonzi was a moody player who didn’t stick around very long long and couldn’t hold a candle to George Eastman or Alan Hudson. On player you left out was Peter Dobing who was unplayable when he could be bothered because he preferred fishing to football. Waddo’s master stroke was to make him captain. I’ll go to my grave recalling the pass he made TC who the best goal I ever saw at the old Vic in the game we beat Arsenal 5-0 in the year Arsenal won the double which hadn’t been done for 10 years. I know we oldies bang on to much about the Waddington years but it was a special time. I often recall a fairly recent interview with Eastham who spoke of how special that group of players was and it would cost a fortune to build that team today. It was a magical time, especially for a youngster like me who grew in that time. Nzonzi was at Stoke for 3 seasons (100+ league games, more than he's played for any other club), as was Hudson until he returned at the end of his career and didn't play all that much. Didn't play that much. Hudson was the sole reason we didn't get relegated. When he returned we were in deep shit. We went on a fine run of form culminating in beating Wolves 4 nil. |
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Post by miltonstokienew on Nov 5, 2021 23:57:21 GMT
He loved him so he might be. Worrying. Rat |
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