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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 31, 2021 18:17:22 GMT
Bursik
Smith Ostigard Souttar Wilmot Tymon
Thompson Vrancic Sawyers
Campbell Fletch
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 31, 2021 18:18:19 GMT
We really can't persist with 3 at the back. He has to change it. The problem is he's built a squad that doesn't really fit anything else with the lack of fullbacks.
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Post by numpty40 on Oct 31, 2021 18:22:06 GMT
I honestly don’t think we can keep 3 at the back. There are just too many issues with it. We have the same issues with four at the back though don’t we? It neutered the strengths of the wing backs and places more responsibility on them to defend, which they’re pretty bad at. Yesterday Smith and Tymon were absolutely awful defending and going forward. MON can't keep just hoping things will change, we've been sussed and neither Smith nor Tymon are good enough to adapt to that.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 31, 2021 18:23:37 GMT
We have the same issues with four at the back though don’t we? It neutered the strengths of the wing backs and places more responsibility on them to defend, which they’re pretty bad at. Yesterday Smith and Tymon were absolutely awful defending and going forward. MON can't keep just hoping things will change, we've been sussed and neither Smith nor Tymon are good enough to adapt to that. I’m not sure we have been sussed to be honest. We have problems but not sure that’s one of them. Tymon in particular is an atrocious full back, not sure what’s to be gained by playing him there.
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 31, 2021 18:26:24 GMT
I can only see us losing again. Something has gone wrong somewhere, it’s all gone completely tits up.
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Post by numpty40 on Oct 31, 2021 18:28:45 GMT
We really can't persist with 3 at the back. He has to change it. The problem is he's built a squad that doesn't really fit anything else with the lack of fullbacks. The wing backs aren't doing anything well at the moment and are a liability. Would Ostigard or Duhaney be any worse defensively than Smith in a back 4? Would Tymon be any worse as an out and out left back until Fox is fit? That's supposed to be his natural position and where he went through the ranks.
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Post by Trouserdog on Oct 31, 2021 18:29:57 GMT
Bursik
Smith Ostigard Souttar Wilmot Tymon
Thompson Sawyers Vrancic
Brown Campbell
I'd rather we go to a back 4 but can't imagine the horror of Tymon at LB. Back 5 again but don't play them as high as they were against Cardiff- it was suicide. Drop Allen and Chester and I think we remove two major issues.
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Post by maninasuitcase on Oct 31, 2021 18:32:27 GMT
Three keepers in one bag. Select one.
22 players in the other bag. Select 10.
Place names on table
Make 3-5-2 formation from your selection.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Oct 31, 2021 18:41:37 GMT
Joe/Adam Butland (not fussed which)
Smith Wilmot Batth Ostigard Tymon
Allen Thompson Sawyers Brown Sima (Fletcher it he can handle it)
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Post by stokesaint1 on Oct 31, 2021 19:05:17 GMT
Does anybody know how far off fitness Morgan Fox actually is? Does it even matter? He'll be back out injured again in no time. Seems to miss far more than he plays and is he really an upgrade on what we've got or just us hoping he'd make a difference? IF O'Neill is going to persist with this playing formation, then he needs to do what's been needed for several years here and that's to get two proper wing backs, rather than making do with players in those positions who can't defend and only on the odd occasion perform in the attacking part of the role.
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Post by dirtclod on Oct 31, 2021 19:07:15 GMT
A 3-0 lead blown in 5 minutes. I don't need to tell anyone on here that putting our fans through something like that is inexcusable. I'd stage the worst mass jowl-slapping session this place has ever seen. It's times like this when we need a Director of Football with an anger-management problem.
This is a professional football team. We need to start acting like one. Confidence my ass, you're being PAID very well to play a game while being supported by people who earn their living. It's not all rewards, there are also consequences. If your mindset is so fragile that you can't withstand an ass-chewing, then you're no professional athlete - you are a child and you're worthless to Stoke.
The Championship is "adults only," it's no day-care. Rant Over.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 31, 2021 23:16:42 GMT
The problem is he's built a squad that doesn't really fit anything else with the lack of fullbacks. The wing backs aren't doing anything well at the moment and are a liability. Would Ostigard or Duhaney be any worse defensively than Smith in a back 4? Would Tymon be any worse as an out and out left back until Fox is fit? That's supposed to be his natural position and where he went through the ranks. I think Tymon is much better suited as a wing back, at least then he is offering something, I just don't think he's good enough defensivly to be relied upon as an out and out fullback. Duhaney could be okay but I'll be honest I've not seen enough of him either way. I just think given that MON has clearly built this squad to play three he needs to find a way to make it work, but I don't really think its the formation thats the problem.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 1, 2021 9:06:43 GMT
4231 for me so at least the roles are more clear
Bursic
Smith Soutter Batth Tymon
Thompson Willmott (he’s played DM before)
Campbell Vrancic (or Sawyers) Brown
Fletcher
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Post by misterj on Nov 1, 2021 10:06:30 GMT
Just watched the Cardiff goals again and normally I’d say three at the back too risky let’s go for four - but on the build up to Cardiff’s goals it looked like we had a flat back FIVE and it still wasn’t enough!! More like G/K mistakes, people not willing to put a foot in (tackle) and the midfield allowing opposition to just run through unchecked
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 1, 2021 10:49:26 GMT
Bursik
Ostigard Souttar Wilmott
Smith Allen Thompson Sawyers Tymon
Brown Fletcher
Subs: Davies, Duhaney, Batth, Vrancic, Campbell, Surridge, Sima.
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Post by gingerninja on Nov 1, 2021 10:53:26 GMT
As much as i would like a return to 4 2 3 1, I think he has too many centre halves to revert to that.
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Post by medwaypotter on Nov 1, 2021 11:24:58 GMT
Bursik Smith Ostigard Souttar Wilmot Tymon Thompson Vrancic Sawyers Campbell Fletch Why would you drop the best player from Saturday ?
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Post by independent on Nov 1, 2021 11:35:41 GMT
It seems very obvious what we need to do. Continue as we are , get a lead in the first half and then second half revert to closing up shop as we did last year. Put Sima and Campbell on at start of second half and play on the break. Both may even prevent the opposition defence from pushing up on us. More worrying is the fact that Souttar's globetrotting seems to be catching up with him. No training for him this week, just rest. Chester can't play every few days and Tymon should just get the first half of games. I don't think it is a coincidence that all our leads have been wiped out in the 2nd half.
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Post by independent on Nov 1, 2021 11:38:45 GMT
I must say that I wonder if our team are fit enough as we run out of steam almost every game.
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Post by nottsover60 on Nov 1, 2021 11:43:08 GMT
Does anybody know how far off fitness Morgan Fox actually is? The problem isn't when he'll be fit but can we risk changing to a system which needs him fit as he's the only player at the club who can play left back. If he came back next Saturday his fitness record here suggests he'll be out again in 3 weeks time.
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Post by nottsover60 on Nov 1, 2021 11:52:58 GMT
It's not the system that's the cause of our capitulation, it's the concentration and focusing on what their role should be. I think second half we got lulled into complacency and forgot that the main job in those last 20 minutes was to not concede a goal.
I think some of this was fatigue setting in for Thompson, Fletcher and Brown who were doing an excellent job at closing them down in their own half. This meant they suddenly had time to pick a pass. Substitutions should have happened 5 minutes earlier when all of a sudden having been penned back for the entire second half Cardiff suddenly started to threaten. I can't believe this was just because they decided to up their game in the last 25 minutes and had more to do with our performance levels dropping.
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Post by armitage21 on Nov 1, 2021 13:35:15 GMT
Does anybody know how far off fitness Morgan Fox actually is? Does it even matter? He'll be back out injured again in no time. Seems to miss far more than he plays and is he really an upgrade on what we've got or just us hoping he'd make a difference? IF O'Neill is going to persist with this playing formation, then he needs to do what's been needed for several years here and that's to get two proper wing backs, rather than making do with players in those positions who can't defend and only on the odd occasion perform in the attacking part of the role. Bit harsh on Tommy Smith that. Been one of our top three players this season.
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Post by blackpoolred on Nov 1, 2021 15:01:21 GMT
Has to try a back four and maybe bring Batth back in for his experience and endeavor. Tymon and Wilmot need to be rested.
Depressing we have so few options defensively and almost devoid of quality - how many years has it been like this now
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Post by nickstokefc on Nov 1, 2021 15:07:47 GMT
DAVIES HAS TO PLAY
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Post by southcoaststokie on Nov 1, 2021 15:20:57 GMT
Bursik Ostigard Souttar Wilmot Smith Doughty Thompson Sawyers Vrancic Campbell Surridge
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Post by klingon on Nov 1, 2021 15:27:43 GMT
Surely Doughty is worth a run out at LWB?
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Post by dirtclod on Nov 1, 2021 15:28:58 GMT
It seems very obvious what we need to do. Continue as we are , get a lead in the first half and then second half revert to closing up shop as we did last year. Put Sima and Campbell on at start of second half and play on the break. Both may even prevent the opposition defence from pushing up on us. More worrying is the fact that Souttar's globetrotting seems to be catching up with him. No training for him this week, just rest. Chester can't play every few days and Tymon should just get the first half of games. I don't think it is a coincidence that all our leads have been wiped out in the 2nd half. It's frustrating because earlier in the season, we'd try to close down too early when only up 1-0, giving the impetus to the opposition. But 3-0 ffs if there's EVER a time to do that...I guess I just don't understand. With matches coming thick & fast, substitutions are going to have to start making sense. Because right or wrong, our guys ARE playing hard and running out of gas. I read somewhere about a team that has a specific coach working closely with the gaffer who specializes in substitutions. They develop plans A-Z based upon the injury list, game situation & formation. Practices during the week are geared towards preparing these subs to enter a game & impact it. During matches, instead of letting them just walk around on the side line, checking out the girls, jawing with each other & kicking their legs like the Rockettes, this coach actually puts them through specific warm-up drills. Their reasoning is that the main manager has enough on his plate managing the players on the pitch as opposed to supervising subs warming up etc. It keeps one or more assistant coaches engaged and guards against a gaffer being caught up in the heat of the moment and making subs either out of emotion or just throwing a dart at a player-list. It guards against players coming in unprepared and at worst case, getting hurt because they weren't physically ready. It identifies which players are good substitutions vs. better at starting a game etc. You may laugh (I did at first) but to me this is just utilizing supporting coaches for something other than a rooting-section or hat-rack. It's the product of a club finding every way possible to win every match. (What a concept) We have enough coaching staff standing around over there that an existing coach could be doing this. Maybe they are, but it doesn't appear so to me.
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Post by jezzascfc on Nov 1, 2021 15:46:59 GMT
There is something seriously wrong with us right now and to just carry on and "trust in the process" (MON in post-match interview) is nonsensical.
We are folding like a pack of cards at the first hint of pressure and conceding sloppy goals, many originating from out wide. This means the opposition are getting behind the wing backs, who are playing far too high, and dragging out centre backs who struggle to defend on the flanks. Couple this with a midfield three who barely have a defensive bone in their bodies, and you can see how we have gotten ourselves into this mess.
This means we simply must revert to a back four and a more solid central midfield in an effort to stem the tide of easy goals. The absence of Fox means we must analyse who else can play left back - Tymon can, but badly, and Doughty can't, so it is either Clucas (if fit again, but will he be bothered?) or play a right footer there. Smith is our only fit and experienced full back by trade, but not by inclination - can we risk doing a Southgate/Trippier and play him on the left? In midfield, I would be tempted to try Wilmot as a holder, a physical presence in there who can shield the defence, win the ball and give it those in front of him who can play.
If we do go for a solid base, we must then put some attacking oomph into the forwards, so I'd play Campbell and Sima wide either side of Brown (rest Fletch for the weekend) with Mario pulling the strings.
For me:
Bursik (only just)
Duhaney Ostigard Souttar Smith
Wilmot Thompson
Campbell Vrancic Sima
Brown
Of course, MON will play his 352 and hope for the best.........
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Post by MilanStokie on Nov 1, 2021 16:40:40 GMT
We really can't persist with 3 at the back. He has to change it. I disagree. The 3 at the back suits this current squad more than any other formation, it has also been decent for most of the season thus far. But mainly because the 3 goals conceded vs Cardiff were not because of the formation but because of ridiculous individual errors. If Chester, Wilmot, Tymon and Bursik don't all switch off together during a 5 minute spell.... Bursik Smith Ostigard Souttar Wilmot Tymon Sawyers Allen Vrancic Brown Sima/Campbell
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Post by gingerninja on Nov 1, 2021 16:45:47 GMT
Fletcher has to start for me, Sima at present looks like a bit of a wasted loan slot.
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