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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 24, 2021 9:51:39 GMT
I bet the PM had a difficult conversation with one of the Kings aides this morning. They didn’t buy billions of weapons of death and destruction off us to be embarrassed like this……..
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Post by potterburt on Oct 24, 2021 13:41:28 GMT
No I didn’t, I was questioning you, and your subsequent responses and immediate defensiveness has been telling enough. Move along please. You did mate. You’ve made yourself look a right twat there. I know exactly what I was thinking thanks. And your discourse here just shown what little thinking be happening over in Zerpiland Awww… bless. |
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Post by zerps on Oct 24, 2021 13:52:27 GMT
You did mate. You’ve made yourself look a right twat there. I know exactly what I was thinking thanks. And your discourse here just shown what little thinking be happening over in Zerpiland Awww… bless. Are you a 95 year old jamaican woman? |
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Post by potterburt on Oct 24, 2021 14:31:28 GMT
I know exactly what I was thinking thanks. And your discourse here just shown what little thinking be happening over in Zerpiland Awww… bless. Are you a 95 year old jamaican woman? I have no idea what your reference point is, what you trying to get at or why this sudden line of enquiry? Is it just the straight up casual character stereotyping to which it seems to be? But to answer, no I’m not. I have though just had lunch with a 72 year old Jamaican lady. |
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Post by zerps on Oct 24, 2021 14:58:56 GMT
Are you a 95 year old jamaican woman? I have no idea what your reference point is, what you trying to get at or why this sudden line of enquiry? Is it just the straight up casual character stereotyping to which it seems to be? But to answer, no I’m not. I have though just had lunch with a 72 year old Jamaican lady. That was me in disguise. |
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Oct 24, 2021 17:09:52 GMT
How can the Police get involved with that? Priti Patel will be along shortly to outlaw banners at football grounds. If her track record is anything to go by, she won't do a very good job of it!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2021 17:32:26 GMT
Happy to take oil/any other natural resource from these places, but God forbid that they buy a football club.
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Post by Veritas on Oct 24, 2021 17:39:21 GMT
Happy to take oil/any other natural resource from these places, but God forbid that they buy a football club. Some spending decisions have realistic alternatives. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2021 17:57:09 GMT
Happy to take oil/any other natural resource from these places, but God forbid that they buy a football club. Some spending decisions have realistic alternatives. Correct, deciding to protest a regime from buying a football club on the grounds that it is immoral is much easier than deciding to not use any of that regimes resources because you are actually outraged, particularly if those resources actually matter in your life. |
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Post by Veritas on Oct 24, 2021 17:58:50 GMT
Some spending decisions have realistic alternatives. Correct, deciding to protest a regime from buying a football club on the grounds that it is immoral is much easier than deciding to not use any of that regimes resources because you are actually outraged, particularly if those resources actually matter in your life. True but because it is difficult to protest about everything shouldn't mean you protest about nothing. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2021 18:03:37 GMT
Correct, deciding to protest a regime from buying a football club on the grounds that it is immoral is much easier than deciding to not use any of that regimes resources because you are actually outraged, particularly if those resources actually matter in your life. True but because it is difficult to protest about everything shouldn't mean you protest about nothing. Agreed. But when the grounds for protest are the same, it’s just blatant hypocrisy. It’s a very Western thing, to pretend to be upset about something that on the whole is largely inconsequential (buying a club) but then overlook a major reason why the Saudi Leadership stay in power (i.e. oil etc) because in doing the latter, someone would actually have to make a sacrifice in their own life. |
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Post by Boothen on Oct 24, 2021 18:36:11 GMT
Somebody ought to inform the idiots that authorised this police investigation that telling the truth is not actually a crime. Let's hope that a similar banner is displayed at every NUFC away game.
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Post by Veritas on Oct 24, 2021 18:56:28 GMT
Somebody ought to inform the idiots that authorised this police investigation that telling the truth is not actually a crime. Let's hope that a similar banner is displayed at every NUFC away game. If you read the quote from the police all they actually say is they will take any allegations of racism very seriously, what else would you expect? There has certainly been no indication of any investigation being launched. |
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Post by callas12 on Oct 24, 2021 19:27:02 GMT
Quite simply, can't have the new NUFC owners upset or offended now can we?!
The British Government also deal with Saudi Arabians aswell don't forget!
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Post by Boothen on Oct 24, 2021 20:08:39 GMT
There has certainly been no indication of any investigation being launched. Police investigating after Palace fans display banner at Newcastle match - The Guardian HeadlinePolice investigate Crystal Palace fans' banner criticising Newcastle's new owners - Sky Sports News headlinePolice investigate Crystal Palace fans' banner criticising Saudi Arabian deal - BBC Headline |
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Post by baystokie on Oct 24, 2021 20:32:32 GMT
Pretty well listed all the allegations against MBS and his cronies relating to the Kashoggi murder and other rights abuses, which have been levelled by the majority of Western intelligence agencies. Personally, given that there is no realistic prospect of MBS ever being put on trial, I don't see why Palace supporters, like the rest of us, should not be free to express their opinion. If the Premier League and the FA object to this sort of banner then they should have operated a sensible owners and directors test instead of the travesty of a test that they currently have. As a sort of 'Devil's Advocate' - what has been levelled against MBS and Co, as you say, are ALLEGATIONS. So does it not follow that until accusations are PROVEN, that everyone is basing any expressed opinion on unsubstantiated statements? - the fact that the majority of Western governments are co-accusers does not, in itself, verify the accuracy of such accusations. I hold no brief for any regime that abuses it's powers but it seems nowadays that if statements/opinions are expressed frequently enough, then they MUST be true and often become the accepted version of events. Guilty until proven innocent is a slippery slope. |
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Post by Boothen on Oct 24, 2021 20:47:03 GMT
As a sort of 'Devil's Advocate' - what has been levelled against MBS and Co, as you say, are ALLEGATIONS. So does it not follow that until accusations are PROVEN, that everyone is basing any expressed opinion on unsubstantiated statements? - the fact that the majority of Western governments are co-accusers does not, in itself, verify the accuracy of such accusations. I hold no brief for any regime that abuses it's powers but it seems nowadays that if statements/opinions are expressed frequently enough, then they MUST be true and often become the accepted version of events. Guilty until proven innocent is a slippery slope. What are your thoughts on Jimmy Savile? Remember, nothing has ever been proven and he was never arrested or tried for a single offence. So, innocent or guilty? |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 24, 2021 20:53:21 GMT
Pretty well listed all the allegations against MBS and his cronies relating to the Kashoggi murder and other rights abuses, which have been levelled by the majority of Western intelligence agencies. Personally, given that there is no realistic prospect of MBS ever being put on trial, I don't see why Palace supporters, like the rest of us, should not be free to express their opinion. If the Premier League and the FA object to this sort of banner then they should have operated a sensible owners and directors test instead of the travesty of a test that they currently have. As a sort of 'Devil's Advocate' - what has been levelled against MBS and Co, as you say, are ALLEGATIONS. So does it not follow that until accusations are PROVEN, that everyone is basing any expressed opinion on unsubstantiated statements? - the fact that the majority of Western governments are co-accusers does not, in itself, verify the accuracy of such accusations. I hold no brief for any regime that abuses it's powers but it seems nowadays that if statements/opinions are expressed frequently enough, then they MUST be true and often become the accepted version of events. Guilty until proven innocent is a slippery slope. As MBS is who he is (i.e. a crown prince and government minister and, effectively, acting Saudi Head of State) he isn't going to go on trial is he? Even if the International Criminal Court charged him he wouldn't turn up for any trial - nor would any Saudi based witnesses whom the prosecutors might wish to call - well not if they valued their lives! Hitler never stood trial for the Holocaust but I am perfectly willing to accuse him of instigating it. So anything I (or anyone outside Saudi Arabia) say isn't going to prejudice any case. So, in the same way that I believe (and am prepared to say so) that Russian agents used Novichok in Salisbury, I am quite prepared to say that I believe MBS is guilty of conspiracy to murder Jamal Kashoggi. My personal opinion, of course, but I am happy to voice it and reckon a lot of people feel the same way including many footy fans. |
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Post by Veritas on Oct 24, 2021 21:10:01 GMT
There has certainly been no indication of any investigation being launched. Police investigating after Palace fans display banner at Newcastle match - The Guardian HeadlinePolice investigate Crystal Palace fans' banner criticising Newcastle's new owners - Sky Sports News headlinePolice investigate Crystal Palace fans' banner criticising Saudi Arabian deal - BBC HeadlineRead below the headlines the stories often bear little resemblance to them. |
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Post by maine on Oct 24, 2021 21:14:45 GMT
Plus, whilst the Khashoggi'murder case' is clearly true if not 'proven' (for the reasons Lakeland mentions) others are unquestionably true. Specific civil rights infringements (Gender discrimination obviously) could be highlighted, but there's only so much space on a banner!
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Post by baystokie on Oct 24, 2021 21:32:12 GMT
As a sort of 'Devil's Advocate' - what has been levelled against MBS and Co, as you say, are ALLEGATIONS. So does it not follow that until accusations are PROVEN, that everyone is basing any expressed opinion on unsubstantiated statements? - the fact that the majority of Western governments are co-accusers does not, in itself, verify the accuracy of such accusations. I hold no brief for any regime that abuses it's powers but it seems nowadays that if statements/opinions are expressed frequently enough, then they MUST be true and often become the accepted version of events. Guilty until proven innocent is a slippery slope. As MBS is who he is (i.e. a crown prince and government minister and, effectively, acting Saudi Head of State) he isn't going to go on trial is he? Even if the International Criminal Court charged him he wouldn't turn up for any trial - nor would any Saudi based witnesses whom the prosecutors might wish to call - well not if they valued their lives! Hitler never stood trial for the Holocaust but I am perfectly willing to accuse him of instigating it. So anything I (or anyone outside Saudi Arabia) say isn't going to prejudice any case. So, in the same way that I believe (and am prepared to say so) that Russian agents used Novichok in Salisbury, I am quite prepared to say that I believe MBS is guilty of conspiracy to murder Jamal Kashoggi. My personal opinion, of course, but I am happy to voice it and reckon a lot of people feel the same way including many footy fans. Your personal opinion is yours to promulgate as you see fit. Had there been court proceedings/trial for the Salisbury incident and you had been called, I doubt if saying you believed the Russian agents guilty (and were prepared to say so) would have been accepted as prime facie evidence, merely opinion. Similarly, could you present evidence against MBS as opposed to your opinion? Unfortunately, not being privy to facts in either case other than those expressed in the media, I prefer not to comment on events of which I have little knowledge. I have no idea at all how many people feel the same way as I do as I have not asked. |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 24, 2021 21:44:34 GMT
As MBS is who he is (i.e. a crown prince and government minister and, effectively, acting Saudi Head of State) he isn't going to go on trial is he? Even if the International Criminal Court charged him he wouldn't turn up for any trial - nor would any Saudi based witnesses whom the prosecutors might wish to call - well not if they valued their lives! Hitler never stood trial for the Holocaust but I am perfectly willing to accuse him of instigating it. So anything I (or anyone outside Saudi Arabia) say isn't going to prejudice any case. So, in the same way that I believe (and am prepared to say so) that Russian agents used Novichok in Salisbury, I am quite prepared to say that I believe MBS is guilty of conspiracy to murder Jamal Kashoggi. My personal opinion, of course, but I am happy to voice it and reckon a lot of people feel the same way including many footy fans. Your personal opinion is yours to promulgate as you see fit. Had there been court proceedings/trial for the Salisbury incident and you had been called, I doubt if saying you believed the Russian agents guilty (and were prepared to say so) would have been accepted as prime facie evidence, merely opinion. Similarly, could you present evidence against MBS as opposed to your opinion? Unfortunately, not being privy to facts in either case other than those expressed in the media, I prefer not to comment on events of which I have little knowledge. I have no idea at all how many people feel the same way as I do as I have not asked. No, of course, I could not present evidence against MBS. If I could I wouldn't present it on a football message board. I am merely expressing an opinion on what I consider to be his involvement in Kashoggi's murder. If I thought there was a reasonable chance that he would come to trial I wouldn't be offering my opinion on his guilt - just as I never give an opinion on the guilt of people who are due to stand trial in British courts. Where there is a prospect of a trial I believe justice should be allowed to take its course without any implication of their guilt from me on social media - which is why most responsible moderators (like Oatie Admin) ask that people don't offer their opinion on the guilt of those accused who are likely to stand trial. |
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Post by PotteringThrough on Oct 24, 2021 21:54:33 GMT
Pretty well listed all the allegations against MBS and his cronies relating to the Kashoggi murder and other rights abuses, which have been levelled by the majority of Western intelligence agencies. Personally, given that there is no realistic prospect of MBS ever being put on trial, I don't see why Palace supporters, like the rest of us, should not be free to express their opinion. If the Premier League and the FA object to this sort of banner then they should have operated a sensible owners and directors test instead of the travesty of a test that they currently have. As a sort of 'Devil's Advocate' - what has been levelled against MBS and Co, as you say, are ALLEGATIONS. So does it not follow that until accusations are PROVEN, that everyone is basing any expressed opinion on unsubstantiated statements? - the fact that the majority of Western governments are co-accusers does not, in itself, verify the accuracy of such accusations. I hold no brief for any regime that abuses it's powers but it seems nowadays that if statements/opinions are expressed frequently enough, then they MUST be true and often become the accepted version of events. Guilty until proven innocent is a slippery slope. To play the devils “Devils Advocate” is it not the people with the banner who are under scrutiny here? The allegations link to an offensive banner that are believed to have: Any allegations of racist abuse will be taken very seriously. Can an organisation be classed as a race? |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 24, 2021 22:20:21 GMT
As a sort of 'Devil's Advocate' - what has been levelled against MBS and Co, as you say, are ALLEGATIONS. So does it not follow that until accusations are PROVEN, that everyone is basing any expressed opinion on unsubstantiated statements? - the fact that the majority of Western governments are co-accusers does not, in itself, verify the accuracy of such accusations. I hold no brief for any regime that abuses it's powers but it seems nowadays that if statements/opinions are expressed frequently enough, then they MUST be true and often become the accepted version of events. Guilty until proven innocent is a slippery slope. To play the devils “Devils Advocate” is it not the people with the banner who are under scrutiny here? The allegations link to an offensive banner that are believed to have: Any allegations of racist abuse will be taken very seriously. Can an organisation be classed as a race? Personally I can't see any racial implications as regards the banner. I'm sure the banner criticises MBS and the Saudis for what they believe they have done not because of their race, nationality or religion. |
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Post by PotteringThrough on Oct 24, 2021 22:27:08 GMT
To play the devils “Devils Advocate” is it not the people with the banner who are under scrutiny here? The allegations link to an offensive banner that are believed to have: Any allegations of racist abuse will be taken very seriously. Can an organisation be classed as a race? Personally I can't see any racial implications as regards the banner. I'm sure the banner criticises MBS and the Saudis for what they believe they have done not because of their race, nationality or religion. I’m of the same opinion. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 25, 2021 8:11:48 GMT
To play the devils “Devils Advocate” is it not the people with the banner who are under scrutiny here? The allegations link to an offensive banner that are believed to have: Any allegations of racist abuse will be taken very seriously. Can an organisation be classed as a race? Personally I can't see any racial implications as regards the banner. I'm sure the banner criticises MBS and the Saudis for what they believe they have done not because of their race, nationality or religion. Some have said the depiction of the Saudi is racist. But isn’t it just like a drawing a westerner in T-shirt and jeans? |
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Post by toppercorner on Oct 25, 2021 9:45:28 GMT
As a sort of 'Devil's Advocate' - what has been levelled against MBS and Co, as you say, are ALLEGATIONS. So does it not follow that until accusations are PROVEN, that everyone is basing any expressed opinion on unsubstantiated statements? - the fact that the majority of Western governments are co-accusers does not, in itself, verify the accuracy of such accusations. I hold no brief for any regime that abuses it's powers but it seems nowadays that if statements/opinions are expressed frequently enough, then they MUST be true and often become the accepted version of events. Guilty until proven innocent is a slippery slope. As MBS is who he is (i.e. a crown prince and government minister and, effectively, acting Saudi Head of State) he isn't going to go on trial is he? Even if the International Criminal Court charged him he wouldn't turn up for any trial - nor would any Saudi based witnesses whom the prosecutors might wish to call - well not if they valued their lives! Hitler never stood trial for the Holocaust but I am perfectly willing to accuse him of instigating it. So anything I (or anyone outside Saudi Arabia) say isn't going to prejudice any case. So, in the same way that I believe (and am prepared to say so) that Russian agents used Novichok in Salisbury, I am quite prepared to say that I believe MBS is guilty of conspiracy to murder Jamal Kashoggi. My personal opinion, of course, but I am happy to voice it and reckon a lot of people feel the same way including many footy fans. A 'psycopath' according to more unclassified US intelligence files released this morning. Even prepared to kill his own king www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/25/saudi-crown-prince-a-psychopath-says-exiled-intelligence-officer |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 25, 2021 14:59:37 GMT
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Oct 25, 2021 15:20:23 GMT
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Post by zerps on Oct 25, 2021 15:50:46 GMT
They tweeted that then ran off |
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