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Post by thehoof on Mar 13, 2021 18:22:02 GMT
I don’t normally disagree with you, but you are totally wrong in your assessment of Mikel. What you are really saying is that we need better midfielders so that he can be protected, he would not control any game of football played at above walking pace. Salif Diao exerted way more influence than Mikel. There would be a massive queue of teams chasing him if we hadn’t got the option of extending for 12 months I’ll bet. O’Neill inherited a mess but his signings have not improved things at all. I'm not saying that at all but you are very naive if you think players don't need to play alongside others that compliment them. For example, for Nigeria, Mikel and Etebo played excellently together because one complimented the other. Whelan and N'Zonzi the same. It's not about protecting Mikel. It's about putting together a team that compliments each other, creating a whole that is better than the sum of its parts. Best example I can think of is Nigel Gleghorn. He was no more or less mobile than Mikel but when Lou put Ray Wallace alongside him, Gleghorn exerted huge influence in the middle of midfield even though he didn't have the "legs" to get about the pitch. Mikel has had some terrible games but he's playing in midfield on his own. I'd imagine that when the coaching staff analyse the game in the finest detail they'll see that Mikel did his job well and they'll also see that his weakness is that he doesn't have the legs, anymore, to cover the shortcomings of others. We should agree to disagree. I would much rather find midfield players that complement Clucas as an attacking midfielder ( like Gleghorn who was capable of 7 to 10 goals per season) than a slow moving Mikel. People say two goals have come on the break- Mikel doesn’t even appear in the frame, he just cannot get forward or back. If I wanted a player with no pace, I’d want someone who could still operate in a tight space- it’s too easy to pressurise him into making a sloppy pass. I really can’t think of any game where I’ve thought that Mikel has made any sort of noticeable difference. I don’t know enough about our u23’s to say whether we have anyone pushing for a start, but I’m not interested in what our coaches and management think about Mikel- our last 20 results are enough to question their competence. If we start next year with Allen and Mikel in midfield, it will be a very difficult season; we may get a couple of million for Allen, we would get zero for Mikel. No other team seems to want to make him an offer?
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Post by tosh on Mar 13, 2021 18:24:16 GMT
O'Neill : "Harry's got do better in that situation" regarding 2nd goal Getting to the stage now with O’Neil that I’d have Rowette back in a flash. Get out of the club O’Neil Agree on that one (Not sure about the Rowett bit though .) Souttar was the only player he criticised by name, one of our few players who are good enough, and one of our most promising prospects, that we don’t want to lose. He also made the point about our young players finding it difficult to cope. He presumably thinks the older players are fine and being let down?
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Post by dirtygary69 on Mar 13, 2021 18:26:33 GMT
We’ve probably played worse overall and got something from games but when you don’t take your opportunities and defend badly resulting in two goal deficits, you’re going to struggle. I’m still looking at what’s available and wondering what we could be doing differently. Thompson would be the obvious one, how he’s not got on the pitch I don’t know, but let’s not pretend we’d be sweeping teams away with him in the team. Yet again, we were without Campbell, Collins, Clucas, McClean, Fox and now Cousins on top of that. 4 of those are probably the better players in our squad who can have an impact when on form. We’ve started well and completely fucked it by having a 20 minute meltdown before half time. Don’t know why I bothered with the second half, we were never getting back into that. We were good for the first ten mins then they changed their system as Warnock said and played great for 70min It’s fair. I think when you go 2-0 down in the first half, you can play as well as you can after that and often it won’t matter because you’re too far behind. We probably were a bit naff in the second half but because we had plenty of the ball, it didn’t feel terrible.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2021 18:43:36 GMT
We were good for the first ten mins then they changed their system as Warnock said and played great for 70min It’s fair. I think when you go 2-0 down in the first half, you can play as well as you can after that and often it won’t matter because you’re too far behind. We probably were a bit naff in the second half but because we had plenty of the ball, it didn’t feel terrible. It did. Put it into context of the last 22 games, it was wank, again. Forget "ooohh possession, ooohh better team", we got spunked all over 3-0. Wank players, put out there by a drowning, clueless manager, aimlessly fumbling around the pitch, and getting taught a lesson, week in, week out, by bog-average sides.
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Post by stokie1947 on Mar 13, 2021 18:45:46 GMT
we are fecking useless i'll give him 6 games top next season if no improvement piss him off
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Post by dirtygary69 on Mar 13, 2021 18:46:38 GMT
It’s fair. I think when you go 2-0 down in the first half, you can play as well as you can after that and often it won’t matter because you’re too far behind. We probably were a bit naff in the second half but because we had plenty of the ball, it didn’t feel terrible. It did. Put it into context of the last 22 games, it was wank, again. Forget "ooohh possession, ooohh better team", we got spunked all over 3-0. Wank players, put out there by a drowning, clueless manager, aimlessly fumbling around the pitch, and getting taught a lesson, week in, week out, by bog-average sides. Our squad today was more bog average than theirs. Look at their subs compared to ours, for one.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Mar 13, 2021 18:49:51 GMT
When are people going to stop talking about injuries??? Every team has them. We've probably got the biggest squad in the league..it's not about injuries..its about fuckin shit players and unfortunately we've got loads of them and our manager keeps playing them!! Look at our bench and come back to me. We’ve got about 6-7 really good players, and 3-4 of those are injured. Yes, all sides have injuries, but do their injuries mean they’re without their best players for months? I doubt any team in the league has a worse injury record than us this season and for the size of our squad, it isn’t half a shit one once you dig beneath the surface.
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Post by karl on Mar 13, 2021 19:12:59 GMT
We start well with plan a then the opposition then find a solution and change but we stick to plan a but may bring on different players. We have no plan b. The worrying thing is that the starting 11 next season will not be much different than this.
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Post by karl on Mar 13, 2021 19:22:41 GMT
We could end up with a worst points total than last season. Is that progress?
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Post by limb1956 on Mar 13, 2021 21:31:12 GMT
There really are some idiots on this site... if you can’t see the positives O’Neil has brought to this club over the last 18 months you shouldn’t e let near the Bet 365 ...
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Post by thehoof on Mar 13, 2021 21:55:50 GMT
There really are some idiots on this site... if you can’t see the positives O’Neil has brought to this club over the last 18 months you shouldn’t e let near the Bet 365 ... If you want to talk progress have a look at Barnsley who stayed up by winning their last game of the season at Brentford to stay up. Look at them now, so strapped for cash they had to unload Jacob Brown to us for £2m. They play with pace, with a small squad and give the impression of being scared of no one. Then look at us- a manager who insists on picking people who haven’t played well for ages, and in today’s comments the only person picked out for criticism is the potential player of the year. No mention of a right back who was hopelessly out of position most of the game, no mention of the totally non- creative midfield pairing of Mikel and Allen, and all that he could say about a forward line that consists of a CF who needs to be wrapped in cotton wool and two wide men one of who couldn’t control a bag of cement while the other does tidy work 10 yards either side of the half way line, is that we need to be sharper? I think you would do well to really look at what M O’n has achieved this season, and if you don’t think that we are quite a bit worse than what he showed us last season, then I’d suggest you will accept any shit for football.
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Post by swampySCFC on Mar 13, 2021 22:26:09 GMT
There really are some idiots on this site... if you can’t see the positives O’Neil has brought to this club over the last 18 months you shouldn’t e let near the Bet 365 ... If you want to talk progress have a look at Barnsley who stayed up by winning their last game of the season at Brentford to stay up. Look at them now, so strapped for cash they had to unload Jacob Brown to us for £2m. They play with pace, with a small squad and give the impression of being scared of no one. Then look at us- a manager who insists on picking people who haven’t played well for ages, and in today’s comments the only person picked out for criticism is the potential player of the year. No mention of a right back who was hopelessly out of position most of the game, no mention of the totally non- creative midfield pairing of Mikel and Allen, and all that he could say about a forward line that consists of a CF who needs to be wrapped in cotton wool and two wide men one of who couldn’t control a bag of cement while the other does tidy work 10 yards either side of the half way line, is that we need to be sharper? I think you would do well to really look at what M O’n has achieved this season, and if you don’t think that we are quite a bit worse than what he showed us last season, then I’d suggest you will accept any shit for football. Fair comment. I looked at Barnsley recently, producing results whilst we whither on the vine. MON says we are like a F1 club limited to 30 mph. Certainly seems like that. At the moment we are nothing more than bland and show no signs of changing it. I never expected promotion this season and I didnt expect relegation but I have been casting an eye at the bottom feeders and we are definitely drifting lower table. Always next year. Club has been mis managed at the top, pissing away parachute payments and going from a successful Premier League outfit to one that is looking up at Rowett's Milwall
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2021 22:27:50 GMT
When are people going to stop talking about injuries??? Every team has them. We've probably got the biggest squad in the league..it's not about injuries..its about fuckin shit players and unfortunately we've got loads of them and our manager keeps playing them!! Look at our bench and come back to me. We’ve got about 6-7 really good players, and 3-4 of those are injured. Yes, all sides have injuries, but do their injuries mean they’re without their best players for months? I doubt any team in the league has a worse injury record than us this season and for the size of our squad, it isn’t half a shit one once you dig beneath the surface. Who are the 3-4 really good players we've got injured? Its a serious question, I can't think of them, and I definitely can't be arsed to look. I'm going....Campbell, then...err...hmmm I'm not giving you Collins, because as good a player as he is, he's not a Right Back in a million years. Which is where he plays. And - he's been a big part of this last 22-game run.
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Post by stokeykez on Mar 13, 2021 22:34:49 GMT
Feels like tomorrow will never come. Keep saying we are hamstrung, it will never get any better when the big earners fall off the books they will be replaced with the shit, weak signings like the ones oneill is making now.
We are stumped all roads round. As a fan I would not mind if the club were honest but when you get each manager wheeling out the bullshit of we have a huge squad, we know where we want to be, we should be in top 6, anything less is failure. To then make the fundamental errors such as not sign a striker before letting one leave, constantly picking the big earners to play before those who merit selection, pointless loan signings and now even worse is the manager is being cloned into the last 4 that have failed.
I despair I really do, there feels yet again a wave of pure apathy thats being allowed to fester, especially without the pressure of fans around the club.
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Post by silsdenstokie on Mar 13, 2021 22:48:45 GMT
There really are some idiots on this site... if you can’t see the positives O’Neil has brought to this club over the last 18 months you shouldn’t e let near the Bet 365 ... If you want to talk progress have a look at Barnsley who stayed up by winning their last game of the season at Brentford to stay up. Look at them now, so strapped for cash they had to unload Jacob Brown to us for £2m. They play with pace, with a small squad and give the impression of being scared of no one. Then look at us- a manager who insists on picking people who haven’t played well for ages, and in today’s comments the only person picked out for criticism is the potential player of the year. No mention of a right back who was hopelessly out of position most of the game, no mention of the totally non- creative midfield pairing of Mikel and Allen, and all that he could say about a forward line that consists of a CF who needs to be wrapped in cotton wool and two wide men one of who couldn’t control a bag of cement while the other does tidy work 10 yards either side of the half way line, is that we need to be sharper? I think you would do well to really look at what M O’n has achieved this season, and if you don’t think that we are quite a bit worse than what he showed us last season, then I’d suggest you will accept any shit for football. This...in a nutshell
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 13, 2021 23:30:16 GMT
shyte
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Post by iglugluk on Mar 14, 2021 0:33:19 GMT
Getting to the stage now with O’Neil that I’d have Rowette back in a flash. Get out of the club O’Neil Agree on that one (Not sure about the Rowett bit though .) Souttar was the only player he criticised by name, one of our few players who are good enough, and one of our most promising prospects, that we don’t want to lose. He also made the point about our young players finding it difficult to cope. He presumably thinks the older players are fine and being let down? I've made the point after previous poor matches that I've noticed MoN often openly criticises players in post match interviews.. particularly young players. I can't remember him being as likely to point the finger at his more established pros. It seems somewhat contradictory and unfair.
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Post by nott1 on Mar 14, 2021 8:55:45 GMT
Vokes Fletcher and Brown should never wear our shirt again. Could not hit Mount Everest from two yards out never mind the goal.Plenty of chances to win this match today....pathetic. Rediculously harsh on Fletcher who had to keep dropping back into midfield to try and win the ball such was the dearth of quality in midfield If ever he starts scoring I'll eat my words, but he is supposed to be a striker...........he isn't!
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Post by Fred Ferret on Mar 14, 2021 9:00:33 GMT
There really are some idiots on this site... if you can’t see the positives O’Neil has brought to this club over the last 18 months you shouldn’t e let near the Bet 365 ... If you want to talk progress have a look at Barnsley who stayed up by winning their last game of the season at Brentford to stay up. Look at them now, so strapped for cash they had to unload Jacob Brown to us for £2m. They play with pace, with a small squad and give the impression of being scared of no one. Then look at us- a manager who insists on picking people who haven’t played well for ages, and in today’s comments the only person picked out for criticism is the potential player of the year. No mention of a right back who was hopelessly out of position most of the game, no mention of the totally non- creative midfield pairing of Mikel and Allen, and all that he could say about a forward line that consists of a CF who needs to be wrapped in cotton wool and two wide men one of who couldn’t control a bag of cement while the other does tidy work 10 yards either side of the half way line, is that we need to be sharper? I think you would do well to really look at what M O’n has achieved this season, and if you don’t think that we are quite a bit worse than what he showed us last season, then I’d suggest you will accept any shit for football. So true. Barnsley have effectively put us to shame. We have lost some key players, not just some - half a team. The MON effect, sadly, does seem to have evaporated and the performances of Smith, Brown, a restricted Allen, and a hot and cold Mikel have proved too much for him. Why was a completely unfit Doughty signed? That has helped in no way at all. We have sufficient points, why not do what Burnley did long ago and played their youngsters. Their rise up the league at the time was quite phenomenal. It would at least provide some potential excitement by throwing the dice. We only need 3/4 points for security.
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Post by steve66 on Mar 14, 2021 10:41:40 GMT
Not read all of this thread but in my opinion with the squad we have MON is shooting himself in the foot by playing two wingers who can’t help out defensive wise enough, think we should go 4-4-2 with Powell the playmaker amongst those 4 in midfield, and here’s where I’m at a loss as we then need two at least to get in front of Powell to join two up top and then get back when moves break down, defenders also need to get out quicker to push the midfield higher up the pitch and again able get back when moves break down!!!!
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Post by wearestoke80 on Mar 14, 2021 12:28:51 GMT
There really are some idiots on this site... if you can’t see the positives O’Neil has brought to this club over the last 18 months you shouldn’t e let near the Bet 365 ... What positives did he bring yesterday? Absolutely fuck all and not for the first time.
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Post by rambo61 on Mar 14, 2021 16:29:59 GMT
As a team we are going backwards. We score fuck all ..we create fuck all and we score fuck all!!! If anyone actually thinks things are getting better watch the highlights of the Hull match before lockdown...we have become a turgid,boring football team who havent got a clue!!!
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Post by peterpan1 on Mar 14, 2021 19:12:42 GMT
When are people going to stop talking about injuries??? Every team has them. We've probably got the biggest squad in the league..it's not about injuries..its about fuckin shit players and unfortunately we've got loads of them and our manager keeps playing them!! He keeps playing the tossers because he has no plan B or C Every team will undoubtedly have injuries as its been pointed out. Its how you then manage the assets you have available to you. Unfortunately, he hasn't been able to get a tune out of the massive squad he has at his disposal.
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Post by hardcastle on Mar 15, 2021 7:48:10 GMT
The game was won by Boro's defence.
Boro successfully defended our 16 attempts on goal, our defenders were unable to keep 3 of Boro's 8 attempts out of our net.
Poor. But we've played worse and picked up points.
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Post by malteser68 on Mar 16, 2021 4:38:54 GMT
The only cure for the malaise at our club is a complete overhaul.
Scholes out. O’Neill out to be replaced by a young continental manager not some other British dinosaur. Then we let the new manager cut and chop and make a couple of additions bringing in a flair player or two from the continent and bleeding in some youngsters whiċst shedding off a good chunk of the players we have who are way past their sell-by date and moulding the team into a fast pacey outfit capable of playing football.
But perhaps the problem is that with tje Coates and their record this is never going to happen
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