toad
Academy Starlet
Posts: 159
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Post by toad on Jan 20, 2021 10:48:08 GMT
He's trying too hard at the minute. Trying to force it and therefore making the wrong decisions on when to dribble or pass. Too early to write him off yet, his pace makes us a different proposition to defend against and creates space for others.
That being said, Clarke looks more ready to make an impact at this level.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jan 20, 2021 10:58:45 GMT
Diouf scored 11 goals in the PL one season! I'd say that is more than just running around! Then missed 103 sitters after that So also the ability to get into good positions, I knew there was something more there!
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Post by Mr Ron Agent on Jan 20, 2021 11:04:07 GMT
My goodness me there’s some shameful stuff on here tonight. Are we really writing this kid off already? What were people actually expecting? For a player with 30 appearances in the Bundesliga, a level higher than we are in, people were expecting him to have much more of an impact. Instead he was a passenger. Granted he is very young and in a new environment which may take time for him to settle into. But if Stoke have ambitions to make the play offs this season they don’t have the luxury to afford him time to ease in gently. It’s just another of the manager’s inexplicable decisions to give him two consecutive starts when he could just as easily have given starts to Verlinden who I think is a much better player and who most certainly couldn’t have been any worse than Matondo.
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Post by meirman61 on Jan 20, 2021 11:05:05 GMT
Diouf scored 11 goals in the PL one season! I'd say that is more than just running around! Then missed 103 sitters after that I wouldn't mind someone missing 103 sitters its better than no attempts at all like we've been getting
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Post by mickstupp on Jan 20, 2021 11:07:40 GMT
My goodness me there’s some shameful stuff on here tonight. Are we really writing this kid off already? What were people actually expecting? For a player with 30 appearances in the Bundesliga, a level higher than we are in, people were expecting him to have much more of an impact. Instead he was a passenger. Granted he is very young and in a new environment which may take time for him to settle into. But if Stoke have ambitions to make the play offs this season they don’t have the luxury to afford him time to ease in gently. It’s just another of the manager’s inexplicable decisions to give him two consecutive starts when he could just as easily have given starts to Verlinden who I think is a much better player and who most certainly couldn’t have been any worse than Matondo. He’s played two senior games of English football. I’m not expecting miracles from the lad but to write him off already is silly. How many times have you seen Verlinden play? What qualities does he have that Rabbi doesn’t?
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Post by bgreen13 on Jan 20, 2021 11:11:02 GMT
Looked off the pace but they were a well drilled no nonsense team.
Clarke looked good though after they had tired.
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Post by onepara on Jan 20, 2021 11:19:11 GMT
Anyone who follows football can usually see, after watching a player after a few minutes whether he can play or not. The fact that he is only 20, as some say, is neither here nor there. If he can't play now, he never will. He should be showing a level of ability. He looks as if he would struggle at Kidsgrove Athletic. I don't see any pace either. Clarke has played for the Spurs team. That shows the difference, & why he looks like a footballer.
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 20, 2021 11:40:28 GMT
Anyone who follows football can usually see, after watching a player after a few minutes whether he can play or not. The fact that he is only 20, as some say, is neither here nor there. If he can't play now, he never will. He should be showing a level of ability. He looks as if he would struggle at Kidsgrove Athletic. I don't see any pace either. Clarke has played for the Spurs team. That shows the difference, & why he looks like a footballer. Any decent scout would have seen what level he was at after the first 15 mins. God in only knows who scouts our transfer targets, is this one down to the manager as they usually are if they aren't fit for purpose the whole process needs scrapping and starting again with a decent transfer team and a new board or at least a new CEO.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 20, 2021 11:47:24 GMT
Anyone who follows football can usually see, after watching a player after a few minutes whether he can play or not. The fact that he is only 20, as some say, is neither here nor there. If he can't play now, he never will. He should be showing a level of ability. He looks as if he would struggle at Kidsgrove Athletic. I don't see any pace either. Clarke has played for the Spurs team. That shows the difference, & why he looks like a footballer. Any decent scout would have seen what level he was at after the first 15 mins. God in only knows who scouts our transfer targets, is this one down to the manager as they usually are if they aren't fit for purpose the whole process needs scrapping and starting again with a decent transfer team and a new board or at least a new CEO. We have 'started again' with the transfer team haven't we? Isn't that what the boy wonder from Millwall was for? Isn't that what Andy Cousins is for?
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Post by deadwait on Jan 20, 2021 11:51:35 GMT
Headless chicken comes to mind !
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Post by cheadlestokie on Jan 20, 2021 12:00:03 GMT
At the moment off the ball he looks lost and has no positional sense.
On the ball his first movement is too slow and the first tackle tends to win the ball off him.
However, early days and someone has hopefully seen something more positive.
Clarke does seem to be a much more grown up footballer from what both have shown so far.
Hate to criticise after only two games but I can only speak as to what I have seen so far.
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Post by Mr Ron Agent on Jan 20, 2021 13:13:10 GMT
For a player with 30 appearances in the Bundesliga, a level higher than we are in, people were expecting him to have much more of an impact. Instead he was a passenger. Granted he is very young and in a new environment which may take time for him to settle into. But if Stoke have ambitions to make the play offs this season they don’t have the luxury to afford him time to ease in gently. It’s just another of the manager’s inexplicable decisions to give him two consecutive starts when he could just as easily have given starts to Verlinden who I think is a much better player and who most certainly couldn’t have been any worse than Matondo. He’s played two senior games of English football. I’m not expecting miracles from the lad but to write him off already is silly. How many times have you seen Verlinden play? What qualities does he have that Rabbi doesn’t? That is a very good question. I’ve regularly watched the U23s over the last few years and Thibaud certainly caught the eye playing for them from age 16/17 onwards. He showed great skill on both wings having pace and tenacity and the ability to beat a player and get a good cross in. He also had an eye for a goal. He has, however, been most unfortunate with injuries having a long term back injury around the time he was with St Pauli. After recovering from that injury and had a very promising loan spell with Bolton in league one for the first part of last season. So much so that the management at Stoke decided to recall him from that loan in January and he went straight into the squad making a number of decent substitute appearances before injuring his cruciate. He is now fit and once again looked impressive in the U23s and eventually got back into the match day squad but strangely (at least to me) his only appearance has been a brief cameo against QPR where as others have already said he looked very lively and provided more crosses in ten minutes than anyone else in the entire match. I just don’t get why the manager isn’t giving him the chances that in my opinion I think he deserves.
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Post by mickstupp on Jan 20, 2021 13:20:26 GMT
He’s played two senior games of English football. I’m not expecting miracles from the lad but to write him off already is silly. How many times have you seen Verlinden play? What qualities does he have that Rabbi doesn’t? That is a very good question. I’ve regularly watched the U23s over the last few years and Thibaud certainly caught the eye playing for them from age 16/17 onwards. He showed great skill on both wings having pace and tenacity and the ability to beat a player and get a good cross in. He also had an eye for a goal. He has, however, been most unfortunate with injuries having a long term back injury around the time he was with St Pauli. After recovering from that injury and had a very promising loan spell with Bolton in league one for the first part of last season. So much so that the management at Stoke decided to recall him from that loan in January and he went straight into the squad making a number of decent substitute appearances before injuring his cruciate. He is now fit and once again looked impressive in the U23s and eventually got back into the match day squad but strangely (at least to me) his only appearance has been a brief cameo against QPR where as others have already said he looked very lively and provided more crosses in ten minutes than anyone else in the entire match. I just don’t get why the manager isn’t giving him the chances that in my opinion I think he deserves. With all due respect, watching him play in the under 23’s is a million miles detached from performing week in and week out in the Championship. I remember his debut, at home to Reading, where he did ok and showed some nice touches in a pretty drab 0-0 draw. Other than that, I’ve seen him come on as a sub a few times and do very little. I don’t understand the fan fare if I’m honest. If he was so good then why would the manager, who lives and dies by his results, not pick him? Also, with him clearly out of favour and available, why have no other clubs come in yet in the window to sign him?
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Post by pottersrule on Jan 20, 2021 13:23:18 GMT
He’s played two senior games of English football. I’m not expecting miracles from the lad but to write him off already is silly. How many times have you seen Verlinden play? What qualities does he have that Rabbi doesn’t? That is a very good question. I’ve regularly watched the U23s over the last few years and Thibaud certainly caught the eye playing for them from age 16/17 onwards. He showed great skill on both wings having pace and tenacity and the ability to beat a player and get a good cross in. He also had an eye for a goal. He has, however, been most unfortunate with injuries having a long term back injury around the time he was with St Pauli. After recovering from that injury and had a very promising loan spell with Bolton in league one for the first part of last season. So much so that the management at Stoke decided to recall him from that loan in January and he went straight into the squad making a number of decent substitute appearances before injuring his cruciate. He is now fit and once again looked impressive in the U23s and eventually got back into the match day squad but strangely (at least to me) his only appearance has been a brief cameo against QPR where as others have already said he looked very lively and provided more crosses in ten minutes than anyone else in the entire match. I just don’t get why the manager isn’t giving him the chances that in my opinion I think he deserves. 👍 Alright there Bayern!
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Post by shakermaker on Jan 20, 2021 14:02:25 GMT
My goodness me there’s some shameful stuff on here tonight. Are we really writing this kid off already? What were people actually expecting? For a player with 30 appearances in the Bundesliga, a level higher than we are in, people were expecting him to have much more of an impact. Instead he was a passenger. Granted he is very young and in a new environment which may take time for him to settle into. But if Stoke have ambitions to make the play offs this season they don’t have the luxury to afford him time to ease in gently. It’s just another of the manager’s inexplicable decisions to give him two consecutive starts when he could just as easily have given starts to Verlinden who I think is a much better player and who most certainly couldn’t have been any worse than Matondo. I don't think he pulled up any trees in the Bundesliga either, aside from two good games. Scored a couple of goals and no assists, only started 11 games last season. I'm not sure why he was supposedly arousing interest from Premier League teams to be honest. At least we can bin him at the end of the season if he doesn't come good, but any further appearances this season should be as a sub and not be considered again for a starting berth until he has shown some quality in the minutes he plays when he comes on.
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Post by onepara on Jan 20, 2021 14:10:17 GMT
He’s played two senior games of English football. I’m not expecting miracles from the lad but to write him off already is silly. How many times have you seen Verlinden play? What qualities does he have that Rabbi doesn’t? That is a very good question. I’ve regularly watched the U23s over the last few years and Thibaud certainly caught the eye playing for them from age 16/17 onwards. He showed great skill on both wings having pace and tenacity and the ability to beat a player and get a good cross in. He also had an eye for a goal. He has, however, been most unfortunate with injuries having a long term back injury around the time he was with St Pauli. After recovering from that injury and had a very promising loan spell with Bolton in league one for the first part of last season. So much so that the management at Stoke decided to recall him from that loan in January and he went straight into the squad making a number of decent substitute appearances before injuring his cruciate. He is now fit and once again looked impressive in the U23s and eventually got back into the match day squad but strangely (at least to me) his only appearance has been a brief cameo against QPR where as others have already said he looked very lively and provided more crosses in ten minutes than anyone else in the entire match. I just don’t get why the manager isn’t giving him the chances that in my opinion I think he deserves. Maybe we'll see him soon. The Manager said in an interview with Ange, when asked why Verlinden wasn't being played, that the formation that was being forced on the team, not having a left back, didn't suit his style of play. But now we have one, lets see.
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Post by baystokie on Jan 20, 2021 16:16:28 GMT
Anyone who follows football can usually see, after watching a player after a few minutes whether he can play or not. The fact that he is only 20, as some say, is neither here nor there. If he can't play now, he never will. He should be showing a level of ability. He looks as if he would struggle at Kidsgrove Athletic. I don't see any pace either. Clarke has played for the Spurs team. That shows the difference, & why he looks like a footballer. 'Anyone who follows football can judge a player after a few minutes' - what absolute cobblers. It was presumably why Jamie Vardy spent a while in non-league football because people could see, after a few minutes. that he couldn't play (until later in his career). The majority of those who 'follow' football have very little knowledge of what it takes to make a professional footballer - they just like to THINK they do. It's always amusing to see the opinions expressed during a match where almost every player is instantly judged, good or bad, depending on his last pass/shot/tackle.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 20, 2021 16:26:58 GMT
Anyone who follows football can usually see, after watching a player after a few minutes whether he can play or not. The fact that he is only 20, as some say, is neither here nor there. If he can't play now, he never will. He should be showing a level of ability. He looks as if he would struggle at Kidsgrove Athletic. I don't see any pace either. Clarke has played for the Spurs team. That shows the difference, & why he looks like a footballer. 'Anyone who follows football can judge a player after a few minutes' - what absolute cobblers. It was presumably why Jamie Vardy spent a while in non-league football because people could see, after a few minutes. that he couldn't play (until later in his career). The majority of those who 'follow' football have very little knowledge of what it takes to make a professional footballer - they just like to THINK they do. It's always amusing to see the opinions expressed during a match where almost every player is instantly judged, good or bad, depending on his last pass/shot/tackle. I don't necessarily disagree (though there are instances where it's true - it was immediately clear Brek Shea and Pulis Jr weren't of the required standard), but equally I agree with Sheikh that you would expect to have seen at least a flash of something so far. Hopefully we see that on Friday.
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Post by Miles Offside on Jan 20, 2021 16:34:17 GMT
We lack cohesion as a team, especially between defence and midfield, and midfield and the forwards.
It'd help Rabbi, Clarke, Brown and the whole team if they focused on playing as a unit. Too many playing like individuals.
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Post by Gabrielzakuaniandjuliet on Jan 20, 2021 16:36:58 GMT
Deserves to be dropped but pace on the counter against Watford may save him
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Post by tqstokie on Jan 20, 2021 17:04:46 GMT
I think it is a little early to judge. It takes some time to get used to the players around you and what they are likely to do. I don't think we have been able to pass the ball inside the full back for him to run onto. I'm not sure that many of our players look to thread the ball so that he receives it running. He does carry a threat and the full back cannot give him time and space so is pinned somewhat. Clarke seems a little more accomplished at this moment.
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Post by tosh on Jan 20, 2021 17:50:02 GMT
Early days but I don’t think Man City will be gazumping us if we we want to take up the six million? pounds buy option. Clarke has so far made a much better first impression. Man City? I thought he was Schalke 04's player, they bought him from Man City for an eye watering 11 million pounds if wiki is to be believed? If you check your facts I think you’ll find that Man City have a buy back clause for over 40 million incredibly. They may also have first option to match any other offer when Schalke sell him. www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/man-utd-matondo-release-clause-18293670
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Post by datguy on Jan 20, 2021 17:58:14 GMT
Far too early to write him off.
Go back to HT vs Blackburn and there was a fair few of us praising his impact.
Blasphemy on this board but I think Tommy Smith behind him would help a lot. Collins is a good footballer but he's nowhere near a fullback.
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Post by Ron on Jan 20, 2021 18:24:33 GMT
Another one written off after 2 games... he’s looked poor though. Having seen him play for Schalke he has definitely got pace... but other than that still very very raw. As I’ve said on another threat I recall him scoring a well taken goal at Leipzig. He’s not pulled up trees there by any means. His development can’t have been helped by playing in a struggling side.
I
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Post by leicspotter on Jan 20, 2021 19:35:39 GMT
My goodness me there’s some shameful stuff on here tonight. Are we really writing this kid off already? What were people actually expecting? For a player with 30 appearances in the Bundesliga, a level higher than we are in, people were expecting him to have much more of an impact. Instead he was a passenger. Granted he is very young and in a new environment which may take time for him to settle into. But if Stoke have ambitions to make the play offs this season they don’t have the luxury to afford him time to ease in gently. It’s just another of the manager’s inexplicable decisions to give him two consecutive starts when he could just as easily have given starts to Verlinden who I think is a much better player and who most certainly couldn’t have been any worse than Matondo. One Bayern on this site is plenty too many
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Post by stokiejoe on Jan 21, 2021 10:39:47 GMT
I would need to see him on a decent pitch suitable for a speedy player before making comment. The two pitches so far have been unsuitable Blackburn was awful and Rotherham was affected by the weather. He is certainly quick and needs games to settle in. We should give young players a proper chance before criticising them.
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Post by lordb on Jan 21, 2021 10:48:38 GMT
Look to see him keep it simple, run at defenders, just keep going until a chance arises or win free kick, penalty, corner.
Keep him away from Ince in training
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Post by LGH87 on Jan 21, 2021 11:31:59 GMT
The comments on this thread are frankly a fucking disgrace.
Standard Stoke fans writing off a young player after 2 games, both of which played in awful conditions away from home against two tough sides.
Let's go and spunk more millions on "established" players like Ince ay?
The fuckwittery amongst our fanbase never ceases to amaze me.
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Post by gingerninja on Jan 21, 2021 11:40:01 GMT
Precisely, he is at a new club, new surroundings in difficult times. MON will have seen him in training for a week now and obviously has seen enough to warrant him starting. Yes it hasn't translated to what we have seen so far, but let's give the lad a chance. It was always going to be somewhat of a gamble, but I would rather have this type then spending millions again on wasters.
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Post by pez75 on Jan 21, 2021 11:46:12 GMT
Far too early to write him off. Go back to HT vs Blackburn and there was a fair few of us praising his impact. Blasphemy on this board but I think Tommy Smith behind him would help a lot. Collins is a good footballer but he's nowhere near a fullback. Collins is a centre half and that is where I want to see him play, but he's still a better fullback than Smith.
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