|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 29, 2020 22:02:59 GMT
Not according to their deputy leader from the Evening Standard:
Angela Rayner said it was time to “get real” about the scale of the problem and warned that “thousands and thousands” could be reprimanded if they fail to do so, Labour List reported.
Addressing the Jewish Labour Movement one-day conference on Sunday morning, Ms Rayner said: “Our members need to get real about this.
“If they don’t think anti-Semitism is within the Labour Party and that there are problems now, then there’s really no place for them in the Labour Party.”
From the horses mouth so to speak oh dear nasty racist element it appears not surprising their hero Marx was anti Semitic.
|
|
|
Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 29, 2020 22:42:41 GMT
Not according to their deputy leader from the Evening Standard:
Angela Rayner said it was time to “get real” about the scale of the problem and warned that “thousands and thousands” could be reprimanded if they fail to do so, Labour List reported.
Addressing the Jewish Labour Movement one-day conference on Sunday morning, Ms Rayner said: “Our members need to get real about this.
“If they don’t think anti-Semitism is within the Labour Party and that there are problems now, then there’s really no place for them in the Labour Party.”
From the horses mouth so to speak oh dear nasty racist element it appears not surprising their hero Marx was anti Semitic.
I'm not sure how anybody can find amusement in the levels of anti-semitism or racism that has infected one of Britain's 2 major parties, but as it's you I suppose nobody should be surprised. The last leader and his leadership team have been castigated by the utterly damning report last month. His responce after the report was released tells you how completely unfit for office he was, and the damage his own disgusting views have infected the Party with will take years to fully eradicate. The mural, the foreword to the book was all there in plain sight but his cult-like following will continue to be blind and fail to educate themselves.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 29, 2020 22:47:03 GMT
Not according to their deputy leader from the Evening Standard:
Angela Rayner said it was time to “get real” about the scale of the problem and warned that “thousands and thousands” could be reprimanded if they fail to do so, Labour List reported.
Addressing the Jewish Labour Movement one-day conference on Sunday morning, Ms Rayner said: “Our members need to get real about this.
“If they don’t think anti-Semitism is within the Labour Party and that there are problems now, then there’s really no place for them in the Labour Party.”
From the horses mouth so to speak oh dear nasty racist element it appears not surprising their hero Marx was anti Semitic.
I'm not sure how anybody can find amusement in the levels of anti-semitism or racism that has infected one of Britain's 2 major parties, but as it's you I suppose nobody should be surprised. The last leader and his leadership team have been castigated by the utterly damning report last month. His responce after the report was released tells you how completely unfit for office he was, and the damage his own disgusting views have infected the Party with will take years to fully eradicate. The mural, the foreword to the book was all there in plain sight but his cult-like following will continue to be blind and fail to educate themselves. This is what happens when you pretend you want to tackle racism, but you're not actually interested in it really.......
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 29, 2020 23:16:22 GMT
|
|
|
Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 30, 2020 8:59:28 GMT
I'm not sure how anybody can find amusement in the levels of anti-semitism or racism that has infected one of Britain's 2 major parties, but as it's you I suppose nobody should be surprised. The last leader and his leadership team have been castigated by the utterly damning report last month. His responce after the report was released tells you how completely unfit for office he was, and the damage his own disgusting views have infected the Party with will take years to fully eradicate. The mural, the foreword to the book was all there in plain sight but his cult-like following will continue to be blind and fail to educate themselves. This is what happens when you pretend you want to tackle racism, but you're not actually interested in it really....... Like night follows day.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 30, 2020 9:28:51 GMT
This is what happens when you pretend you want to tackle racism, but you're not actually interested in it really....... Like night follows day. Would you like to comment on the piece from the Jewish lady in the clip? Or the comments from Mandleson that go against the EHRC’s own findings? Or what was antisemitic about the statement in question, which is the new narrative. Or would you rather just pretend you have the moral high ground and give a shit a bit antisemitism. You haven't even read or understood the EHRC report have you, admit it? When was the last time you and your kids kids spent the whole day scrubbing and cleaning graffiti off a Jewish cemetery, the last time you went to a synagogue and sorted clothes and food for a homeless charity, the last bar mitzvah you went to for the son of friends who agree totally that the “crisis” has been totally exaggerated? Save your faux outrage......
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 30, 2020 11:11:31 GMT
Would you like to comment on the piece from the Jewish lady in the clip? Or the comments from Mandleson that go against the EHRC’s own findings? Or what was antisemitic about the statement in question, which is the new narrative. Or would you rather just pretend you have the moral high ground and give a shit a bit antisemitism. You haven't even read or understood the EHRC report have you, admit it? When was the last time you and your kids kids spent the whole day scrubbing and cleaning graffiti off a Jewish cemetery, the last time you went to a synagogue and sorted clothes and food for a homeless charity, the last bar mitzvah you went to for the son of friends who agree totally that the “crisis” has been totally exaggerated? Save your faux outrage...... I don't want to get involved in the thread Prestwich, mainly because I see it as a Labour internal issue. Obviously important and may have implications for Labour electorally. But a London based Jewish friend of mine did say prior to the last election that if Labour won his family and other Jewish friends of his were seriously considering moving to Canada or Australia....his family are far from stupid, nor do they over react, but that is how they felt. ( Personally I don't consider Corbyn to be antisemitic, although sometimes I'm not sure, but my friend did have real fear).
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 30, 2020 11:26:32 GMT
Would you like to comment on the piece from the Jewish lady in the clip? Or the comments from Mandleson that go against the EHRC’s own findings? Or what was antisemitic about the statement in question, which is the new narrative. Or would you rather just pretend you have the moral high ground and give a shit a bit antisemitism. You haven't even read or understood the EHRC report have you, admit it? When was the last time you and your kids kids spent the whole day scrubbing and cleaning graffiti off a Jewish cemetery, the last time you went to a synagogue and sorted clothes and food for a homeless charity, the last bar mitzvah you went to for the son of friends who agree totally that the “crisis” has been totally exaggerated? Save your faux outrage...... I don't want to get involved in the thread Prestwich, mainly because I see it as a Labour internal issue. Obviously important and may have implications for Labour electorally. But a London based Jewish friend of mine did say prior to the last election that if Labour won his family and other Jewish friends of his were seriously considering moving to Canada or Australia....his family are far from stupid, nor do they over react, but that is how they felt. ( Personally I don't consider Corbyn to be antisemitic, although sometimes I'm not sure, but my friend did have real fear). I know a couple that said exactly the same mate, I know several Jewish families who I would call friends and they are split down the middle on this issue. What were they specifically fearful of though John? Because when public perception is that 33% of Labour members (I'm not a Labour member although I know many) are antisemitic instead of 0.3% then of course people will be fearful, that would be absolutely horrific. And by the way it was my Jewish neighbour that specifically asked another Jewish neighbour that in not so diplomatic terms, that there was nothing to be fearful of aside from obviously the small pockets of antisemitism that exist in both the Labour Party as well as society as a whole and he was falling for an extremely worrying narrative. Fast forward to the reaction of Starmer, the NEC and MP's trying to ride roughshod over CLP members engaging in debate on the issue of Corbyn and essentially free speech, and I wonder who's the actual "Stalinist" here. The more I read up on it, the more I see an extremely decent (flawed like the rest of us) man who has been vilified by the press, his PLP MP's and let's be blunt organisations like the BoD and the Labour Friends of Israel who wanted Corbyn out of the way above everything. I'm not even interested what people think of his politics it's irrelevant, I'd say the same if it was William Hague if he had suffered the same fate as ex-leader of the Tories. It's about right and wrong, and if that puts me in the minority then so be it......
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 30, 2020 11:43:56 GMT
I don't want to get involved in the thread Prestwich, mainly because I see it as a Labour internal issue. Obviously important and may have implications for Labour electorally. But a London based Jewish friend of mine did say prior to the last election that if Labour won his family and other Jewish friends of his were seriously considering moving to Canada or Australia....his family are far from stupid, nor do they over react, but that is how they felt. ( Personally I don't consider Corbyn to be antisemitic, although sometimes I'm not sure, but my friend did have real fear). I know a couple that said exactly the same mate, I know several Jewish families who I would call friends and they are split down the middle on this issue. What were they specifically fearful of though John? Because when public perception is that 33% of Labour members (I'm not a Labour member although I know many) are antisemitic instead of 0.3% then of course people will be fearful, that would be absolutely horrific. And by the way it was my Jewish neighbour that specifically asked another Jewish neighbour that in not so diplomatic terms, that there was nothing to be fearful of aside from obviously the small pockets of antisemitism that exist in both the Labour Party as well as society as a whole and he was falling for an extremely worrying narrative. Fast forward to the reaction of Starmer, the NEC and MP's trying to ride roughshod over CLP members engaging in debate on the issue of Corbyn and essentially free speech, and I wonder who's the actual "Stalinist" here. The more I read up on it, the more I see an extremely decent (flawed like the rest of us) man who has been vilified by the press, his PLP MP's and let's be blunt organisations like the BoD and the Labour Friends of Israel who wanted Corbyn out of the way above everything. I'm not even interested what people think of his politics it's irrelevant, I'd say the same if it was William Hague if he had suffered the same fate as ex-leader of the Tories. It's about right and wrong, and if that puts me in the minority then so be it...... It may well be a case of perception/ reality/ media/ internal politics/ external politics....unfortunately though what is true is that Labour does seem to get itself involved in this infighting and their opponents love it.....in the meantime they are unable to say ( or to get across) anything decisive or significant on issues that do concern the majority of the population ....in my opinion of course. As an aside I'm all for equality, equal opportunity, anti-racism , anti discrimination......but I wonder if Labour need to also think about what the majority might want/ need?
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 30, 2020 11:51:01 GMT
I know a couple that said exactly the same mate, I know several Jewish families who I would call friends and they are split down the middle on this issue. What were they specifically fearful of though John? Because when public perception is that 33% of Labour members (I'm not a Labour member although I know many) are antisemitic instead of 0.3% then of course people will be fearful, that would be absolutely horrific. And by the way it was my Jewish neighbour that specifically asked another Jewish neighbour that in not so diplomatic terms, that there was nothing to be fearful of aside from obviously the small pockets of antisemitism that exist in both the Labour Party as well as society as a whole and he was falling for an extremely worrying narrative. Fast forward to the reaction of Starmer, the NEC and MP's trying to ride roughshod over CLP members engaging in debate on the issue of Corbyn and essentially free speech, and I wonder who's the actual "Stalinist" here. The more I read up on it, the more I see an extremely decent (flawed like the rest of us) man who has been vilified by the press, his PLP MP's and let's be blunt organisations like the BoD and the Labour Friends of Israel who wanted Corbyn out of the way above everything. I'm not even interested what people think of his politics it's irrelevant, I'd say the same if it was William Hague if he had suffered the same fate as ex-leader of the Tories. It's about right and wrong, and if that puts me in the minority then so be it...... It may well be a case of perception/ reality/ media/ internal politics/ external politics....unfortunately though what is true is that Labour does seem to get itself involved in this infighting and their opponents love it.....in the meantime they are unable to say ( or to get across) anything decisive or significant on issues that do concern the majority of the population ....in my opinion of course. As an aside I'm all for equality, equal opportunity, anti-racism , anti discrimination......but I wonder if Labour need to also think about what the majority might want/ need? You didn't answer my question John what were they specifically fearful of? What Labour do internally is none of my business, I just comment on what I see. On current evidence this Starmer led party certainly doesn't represent me though I'm happy to put that on record......
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 30, 2020 11:56:23 GMT
It may well be a case of perception/ reality/ media/ internal politics/ external politics....unfortunately though what is true is that Labour does seem to get itself involved in this infighting and their opponents love it.....in the meantime they are unable to say ( or to get across) anything decisive or significant on issues that do concern the majority of the population ....in my opinion of course. As an aside I'm all for equality, equal opportunity, anti-racism , anti discrimination......but I wonder if Labour need to also think about what the majority might want/ need? You didn't answer my question John what were they specifically fearful of? What Labour do internally is none of my business, I just comment on what I see. On current evidence this Starmer led party certainly doesn't represent me though I'm happy to put that on record...... Missed your question His answer was " A Labour government ". I didn't go into specifics but they saw Labour as antisemitic and therefore were in fear that it would give encouragement to antisemites. His synagogue has concrete bollards in front of it and is guarded during the sabbath meetings, as many are.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 30, 2020 12:07:01 GMT
You didn't answer my question John what were they specifically fearful of? What Labour do internally is none of my business, I just comment on what I see. On current evidence this Starmer led party certainly doesn't represent me though I'm happy to put that on record...... Missed your question His answer was " A Labour government ". I didn't go into specifics but they saw Labour as antisemitic and therefore were in fear that it would give encouragement to antisemites. His synagogue has concrete bollards in front of it and is guarded during the sabbath meetings, as many are. All the synagogues around here have security when open for worship or meetings. It's pathetic and very sad that they need to but it's always been the case long before anyone knew who Corbyn was.......
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 30, 2020 12:32:17 GMT
Missed your question His answer was " A Labour government ". I didn't go into specifics but they saw Labour as antisemitic and therefore were in fear that it would give encouragement to antisemites. His synagogue has concrete bollards in front of it and is guarded during the sabbath meetings, as many are. All the synagogues around here have security when open for worship or meetings. It's pathetic and very sad that they need to but it's always been the case long before anyone knew who Corbyn was....... True.....if people think a bit different from the establishment they can become targets. I guess that Corbyn's past dialogue with Hamas hasn't helped. Farage suffers similar treatment in respect of refugees through simply wanting to control our own borders.
|
|
|
Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 30, 2020 16:40:37 GMT
The recent rise in use of the IHRA definition of anti semitism is a huge part of the problem. Despite never being used by the EU, for who is was written, and the reservations of its use by the person who wrote it, it has been seized upon by people wishing to conflate criticism of Israel with anti semitism. In the US the Trump administration is also trying to make support for BDS an indication of antisemitism. Boycott is passive protest, if passive protest is ruled out, what options does that leave the Palestinians? Palestinian and Arab academics, journalists and intellectuals have signed a declaration of their concern. Israel is treading a fine line with this, it might appear to work in the short term, but will it erode support in the longer term? Just as their endless occupation/ settlement/ non definition of borders/ annexation plan seems on a collision course with a one state solution, it's a sort term win with big long term risks. www.theguardian.com/news/2020/nov/29/palestinian-rights-and-the-ihra-definition-of-antisemitism?fbclid=IwAR1xc95vTb7bX8uI3qIDBLRLzLEUOiPf1eDaKu_SEWAUrhWkRlWox8anvYQ
|
|
|
Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 30, 2020 17:49:23 GMT
Would you like to comment on the piece from the Jewish lady in the clip? Or the comments from Mandleson that go against the EHRC’s own findings? Or what was antisemitic about the statement in question, which is the new narrative. Or would you rather just pretend you have the moral high ground and give a shit a bit antisemitism. You haven't even read or understood the EHRC report have you, admit it? When was the last time you and your kids kids spent the whole day scrubbing and cleaning graffiti off a Jewish cemetery, the last time you went to a synagogue and sorted clothes and food for a homeless charity, the last bar mitzvah you went to for the son of friends who agree totally that the “crisis” has been totally exaggerated? Save your faux outrage...... This blind loyalty and failure to accept the utterly abysmal leadership that the Labour Party has been under is absolutely staggering. More concerning is the points you use for defence of it are similar to that of Covid nutters and anti-vaxxers; lo and behold all of which centres around links to social media. Firstly here is the Contents page to the report I have allegedly not read, this in itself would normally send shockwaves through the electorate so if we have to go into all the individual finding let me know. Attachment DeletedPossibly the most damning is page 100. Failure of leadership. '... our analysis points to a culture within the party which at best did not do enough to prevent anti-semitism and at worst could be seen to accept it' Now as for your predictable posts from social media to back up your own points, similar to right wing media outlets finding a black man or woman to disagree with BLM, or an Asian man or woman to defend Islamaphobic stereotyping, I personally much prefer to keep out of the echo chamber and look at overwhelming majority* view. *(overwhelming majority being something the last leadership gifted to the Conservative Party as it was so unpalatable) I'm more than happy to listen to any arguments where you feel the past incumbent was able to improve Labour's Jewish vote, or how his own handling made MP's feel safe and not want to leave the party, or how his past musings would mean there actually isn't a problem. But I think ill be waiting a long time... Your final and somewhat disgusting remarks about cleaning graffiti of a synagogue or cemeteries is the final desperate straw to balance an arguement on. Along the lines of the tried and tested, 'why don't you pay for school dinners of kids who aren't your own' or even, 'if you want to help refugees why don't you look after them in your spare bedroom' it is a lazy and weak arguement designed to spread division. My expectation is that the high offices of this land deliver fairness and equality for all . I do not expect a breeding ground for racist tropes. I can also acknowledge when something is clearly wrong and needs improvement, fortunately the Labour Party now has a Leader who recognises that too.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 30, 2020 17:53:26 GMT
Would you like to comment on the piece from the Jewish lady in the clip? Or the comments from Mandleson that go against the EHRC’s own findings? Or what was antisemitic about the statement in question, which is the new narrative. Or would you rather just pretend you have the moral high ground and give a shit a bit antisemitism. You haven't even read or understood the EHRC report have you, admit it? When was the last time you and your kids kids spent the whole day scrubbing and cleaning graffiti off a Jewish cemetery, the last time you went to a synagogue and sorted clothes and food for a homeless charity, the last bar mitzvah you went to for the son of friends who agree totally that the “crisis” has been totally exaggerated? Save your faux outrage...... My expectation is that the high offices of this land deliver fairness and equality for all . And you're backing Starmer?!
|
|
|
Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 30, 2020 18:32:03 GMT
My expectation is that the high offices of this land deliver fairness and equality for all . And you're backing Starmer?! Depends how you would define backing? I'm not a member of any politcal party. If you squeezed me hard enough I would lean left. Corbyn got some 'policies' wrong for my liking but I could accept a Socialist candidate in the same way I could accept a moderate Conservative candidate - I don't feel bound by a particular allegiance but more by more what feels right at the time. He failed because it was 'him' and his completely unfit leadership for high office as outlined above, by the EHRC and most importantly the electorate. He has a somewhat cult following who now seem to want to attack his successor as some sort of political self harm, and for those who want to see an end to this type of Conservative government it's baffling. Is he really worth dying on a hill for? With all the evidence? Absolutely not, and I voted Labour in the last 2 elections. They had no chance with Corbyn and a strong chance with Starmer, simple as that really.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 30, 2020 19:28:08 GMT
Would you like to comment on the piece from the Jewish lady in the clip? Or the comments from Mandleson that go against the EHRC’s own findings? Or what was antisemitic about the statement in question, which is the new narrative. Or would you rather just pretend you have the moral high ground and give a shit a bit antisemitism. You haven't even read or understood the EHRC report have you, admit it? When was the last time you and your kids kids spent the whole day scrubbing and cleaning graffiti off a Jewish cemetery, the last time you went to a synagogue and sorted clothes and food for a homeless charity, the last bar mitzvah you went to for the son of friends who agree totally that the “crisis” has been totally exaggerated? Save your faux outrage...... This blind loyalty and failure to accept the utterly abysmal leadership that the Labour Party has been under is absolutely staggering. More concerning is the points you use for defence of it are similar to that of Covid nutters and anti-vaxxers; lo and behold all of which centres around links to social media. Firstly here is the Contents page to the report I have allegedly not read, this in itself would normally send shockwaves through the electorate so if we have to go into all the individual finding let me know. View AttachmentPossibly the most damning is page 100. Failure of leadership. '... our analysis points to a culture within the party which at best did not do enough to prevent anti-semitism and at worst could be seen to accept it' Now as for your predictable posts from social media to back up your own points, similar to right wing media outlets finding a black man or woman to disagree with BLM, or an Asian man or woman to defend Islamaphobic stereotyping, I personally much prefer to keep out of the echo chamber and look at overwhelming majority* view. *(overwhelming majority being something the last leadership gifted to the Conservative Party as it was so unpalatable) I'm more than happy to listen to any arguments where you feel the past incumbent was able to improve Labour's Jewish vote, or how his own handling made MP's feel safe and not want to leave the party, or how his past musings would mean there actually isn't a problem. But I think ill be waiting a long time... Your final and somewhat disgusting remarks about cleaning graffiti of a synagogue or cemeteries is the final desperate straw to balance an arguement on. Along the lines of the tried and tested, 'why don't you pay for school dinners of kids who aren't your own' or even, 'if you want to help refugees why don't you look after them in your spare bedroom' it is a lazy and weak arguement designed to spread division. My expectation is that the high offices of this land deliver fairness and equality for all . I do not expect a breeding ground for racist tropes. I can also acknowledge when something is clearly wrong and needs improvement, fortunately the Labour Party now has a Leader who recognises that too. My loyalty is to my family and friends not Corbyn, Starmer or the Labour Party. And I’m not sure what’s conspiracy theorist about the current Labour Party classing pro-Palestinian or anti Israel comments as antisemitic and shutting down debate, or an example of Peter Mandelson at an event that Starmer was at going against what was explicitly discussed in the EHRC report. Nearly 60 Labour Party constituencies have currently passed motions supporting Corbyn’s reinstatement but more importantly challenging Starmer and David Evans around the current tactic of suppressing free speech, 22 of which supported Starmer’s leadership campaign. I’m well aware of the failure of leadership angle of the report, and not once have I ever said Corbyn’s administration haven’t made mistakes, but what you also fail to acknowledge is that the biggest issues from a disciplinary perspective were under Ian McNicol and that after Jenny Formby took over it improved dramatically, that’s on record. Have you even looked at Corbyn’s record in champion Jewish causes, the motion to offer refuge to Yemeni Jews, the campaigning to keep open a Jewish cemetery, a Jewish radio station etc etc, his relationship with thousands of secular and Haredi Jews both in his constituency and beyond. I’m not sure what’s disgusting about making a comment about cleaning graffiti from a Jewish cemetery? I was making the point that despite your obvious dog whistling about me being part of a cult, some mad conspiracy theorist, a racist, I have done all of those things as someone who lives in the largest Jewish area in Britain outside London. So forgive me for getting narked by some faceless internet no no mark telling me what is and isn’t racist. Starmer has done zero to tackle antisemitism yet, not a bean. He’s talked a lot, then hoped the issue would go away, and now he’s tying him self in procedural knots. So time will tell whether he is the man to take the party forward.......
|
|
|
Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 30, 2020 19:37:22 GMT
And you're backing Starmer?! Depends how you would define backing? I'm not a member of any politcal party. If you squeezed me hard enough I would lean left. Corbyn got some 'policies' wrong for my liking but I could accept a Socialist candidate in the same way I could accept a moderate Conservative candidate - I don't feel bound by a particular allegiance but more by more what feels right at the time. He failed because it was 'him' and his completely unfit leadership for high office as outlined above, by the EHRC and most importantly the electorate. He has a somewhat cult following who now seem to want to attack his successor as some sort of political self harm, and for those who want to see an end to this type of Conservative government it's baffling. Is he really worth dying on a hill for? With all the evidence? Absolutely not, and I voted Labour in the last 2 elections. They had no chance with Corbyn and a strong chance with Starmer, simple as that really. Even in 2019 Corbyn got more votes than 2015, 2010 and 2005. Over 2017 and 2019 he averaged more votes than Blair in his 3 wins 1997, 2001 and 2005. This with the majority of his own plp undermining him, without a deal with Murdoch and with Milliband having lost Scotland. To say there was no chance with him but a chance with Starmer might projecting your own feelings, which are clearly very strong, onto the situation. We'll see how Starmer does, but without Scotland he's up against it. Without Labour activists and the fees of a big membership he's also up against it. I've no idea what policy he's going to have to come up with to make enough groups happy and not alienate soft right. Whether that policy engages the under 40's in the unprecedented way Corbyns did we'll see soon enough. I cant help thinking he's throwing the baby out with the bath water.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 30, 2020 19:45:57 GMT
Depends how you would define backing? I'm not a member of any politcal party. If you squeezed me hard enough I would lean left. Corbyn got some 'policies' wrong for my liking but I could accept a Socialist candidate in the same way I could accept a moderate Conservative candidate - I don't feel bound by a particular allegiance but more by more what feels right at the time. He failed because it was 'him' and his completely unfit leadership for high office as outlined above, by the EHRC and most importantly the electorate. He has a somewhat cult following who now seem to want to attack his successor as some sort of political self harm, and for those who want to see an end to this type of Conservative government it's baffling. Is he really worth dying on a hill for? With all the evidence? Absolutely not, and I voted Labour in the last 2 elections. They had no chance with Corbyn and a strong chance with Starmer, simple as that really. Even in 2019 Corbyn got more votes than 2015, 2010 and 2005. Over 2017 and 2019 he averaged more votes than Blair in his 3 wins 1997, 2001 and 2005. This with the majority of his own plp undermining him, without a deal with Murdoch and with Milliband having lost Scotland. To say there was no chance with him but a chance with Starmer might projecting your own feelings, which are clearly very strong, onto the situation. We'll see how Starmer does, but without Scotland he's up against it. Without Labour activists and the fees of a big membership he's also up against it. I've no idea what policy he's going to have to come up with to make enough groups happy and not alienate soft right. Whether that policy engages the under 40's in the unprecedented way Corbyns did we'll see soon enough. I cant help thinking he's throwing the baby out with the bath water. People always conveniently forgot the two election pre-2015. But I’ve said this previously, it wouldn’t surprise me if Starmer is successful as I still believe he may end up getting the backing of the Murdoch press. Because ultimately they don’t care whether red or blue in charge, only that the status quo remains. If they decide to turn in him at any point however he’ll be toast, I guess we’ll see......
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 30, 2020 21:55:25 GMT
Missed your question His answer was " A Labour government ". I didn't go into specifics but they saw Labour as antisemitic and therefore were in fear that it would give encouragement to antisemites. His synagogue has concrete bollards in front of it and is guarded during the sabbath meetings, as many are. All the synagogues around here have security when open for worship or meetings. It's pathetic and very sad that they need to but it's always been the case long before anyone knew who Corbyn was....... Wow sounds a lovely area to bring up a family, that's shocking who are the Jewish people so afraid of any particular community in particular ? can't imagine there are that many Nazi type's in such a diverse area is it because it is or was a Labour stronghold full of far left Marxist types ? sad that they have to live in so much fear given what their ancestors have been through.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 30, 2020 22:14:05 GMT
All the synagogues around here have security when open for worship or meetings. It's pathetic and very sad that they need to but it's always been the case long before anyone knew who Corbyn was....... Wow sounds a lovely area to bring up a family, that's shocking who are the Jewish people so afraid of any particular community in particular ? can't imagine there are that many Nazi type's in such a diverse area is it because it is or was a Labour stronghold full of far left Marxist types ? sad that they have to live in so much fear given what their ancestors have been through. It's a perfectly pleasant place to bring up a family. Synagogues all over the UK and mainland Europe unfortunately need security this area is not unique, if you think that's because of "left Marxist types" you have a worse grasp of history than I ever imagined......
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 30, 2020 22:24:24 GMT
Wow sounds a lovely area to bring up a family, that's shocking who are the Jewish people so afraid of any particular community in particular ? can't imagine there are that many Nazi type's in such a diverse area is it because it is or was a Labour stronghold full of far left Marxist types ? sad that they have to live in so much fear given what their ancestors have been through. It's a perfectly pleasant place to bring up a family. Synagogues all over the UK and mainland Europe unfortunately need security this area is not unique, if you think that's because of "left Marxist types" you have a worse grasp of history than I ever imagined...... Which community do they fear will attack them ? France in particular appears to have has issues with barbaric attacks but they seem to be from the followers a particular religion couldn't be the same problem all over the UK and mainland Europe could it ? what is the history link could you expand as obviously you are up to speed on racist attacks on the Jewish community ? have the Nazi Party reformed or has another barbaric entity taken their place.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 30, 2020 22:28:16 GMT
You'd have thought that through Crapslinger's great understanding of Wikipedia History that he would know that the spiritual home of Jewish persecution is the right of Politics wouldn't you. I mean it's almost as if he doesn't give to shiny fucks about anti-Semitism at all.
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 30, 2020 22:43:56 GMT
You'd have thought that through Crapslinger's great understanding of Wikipedia History that he would know that the spiritual home of Jewish persecution is the right of Politics wouldn't you. I mean it's almost as if he doesn't give to shiny fucks about anti-Semitism at all. Which right wing politics are threatening the Jewish people currently Mo ? which communities are they afraid of ? come on enlighten me you left wing woke libtards seem to have a handle on the current threat to the Jewish community don't be shy.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 30, 2020 22:58:29 GMT
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 30, 2020 23:40:29 GMT
It's a perfectly pleasant place to bring up a family. Synagogues all over the UK and mainland Europe unfortunately need security this area is not unique, if you think that's because of "left Marxist types" you have a worse grasp of history than I ever imagined...... Which community do they fear will attack them ? France in particular appears to have has issues with barbaric attacks but they seem to be from the followers a particular religion couldn't be the same problem all over the UK and mainland Europe could it ? what is the history link could you expand as obviously you are up to speed on racist attacks on the Jewish community ? have the Nazi Party reformed or has another barbaric entity taken their place. What the hell are you gibbering on about?
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 30, 2020 23:51:59 GMT
Which community do they fear will attack them ? France in particular appears to have has issues with barbaric attacks but they seem to be from the followers a particular religion couldn't be the same problem all over the UK and mainland Europe could it ? what is the history link could you expand as obviously you are up to speed on racist attacks on the Jewish community ? have the Nazi Party reformed or has another barbaric entity taken their place. What the hell are you gibbering on about? Grow a pair answer the questions it isn't rocket science
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 30, 2020 23:56:26 GMT
Which community is the biggest threat to he Jewish community in the UK Mo ? simple enough question I know you don't like questions especially if you know the answer man up Mo for once in your life answer the question.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 1, 2020 0:00:24 GMT
Which community is the biggest threat to he Jewish community in the UK Mo ? simple enough question I know you don't like questions especially if you know the answer man up Mo for once in your life answer the question. I knew I should have posted a copy of the Beano up there rather then introduce anything else for you to read. If you're asking me what do Jewish communities have to fear most in terms of physical attack and violence in the UK and across Europe then it is (as it has been for centuries), undoubtedly, the far right.
|
|