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Post by southernish on Oct 5, 2020 10:31:31 GMT
Norwich had a shocking start to their campaign 2 years ago and went and won the title. This is a league of strong finishes, not of strong starts so anyone and everyone is still in the mix.
Remember a few years back when Forest had Stuart Pearce and had a brilliant opening to the season? They won nothing again until well after Christmas. Too early to write us off.
UTMP
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Oct 5, 2020 10:37:47 GMT
I don't see how people see going up as realistic until we get a settled squad and overcome FFP , just had four bad seasons and money is tight and we still have far too many players that are no good earning big money .
The best we can hope for is to get into mid table and play the loan market well in January and see if we can push for 6th but I'd say that's a long shot
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 10:50:47 GMT
Norwich had a shocking start to their campaign 2 years ago and went and won the title. This is a league of strong finishes, not of strong starts so anyone and everyone is still in the mix. Remember a few years back when Forest had Stuart Pearce and had a brilliant opening to the season? They won nothing again until well after Christmas. Too early to write us off. UTMP Well that argument, used continously for a few months last season, did neither Jones nor us any favours... That said I agree that everyone is still in the mix and will continue to be until right after the holiday season.
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Post by scfc75 on Oct 5, 2020 10:50:49 GMT
To not start the season as wankly as we did last season is a start. MON will be the first to admit that he’s probably gone too defensive as he thought we conceded too many last season. He’ll fine tune things as we go. The main thing is that we’re still competitive (not slugging it out at the bottom) by halfway, then we’ll still have a chance of a tilt at the playoffs. I think realistically that’s the expectation this season. 5pts from 4 games isn’t a disaster, we haven’t looked terrible and we know that these players can score goals in the right set up. Give him time, I’m confident he’ll get things right.
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Post by ab61 on Oct 5, 2020 10:54:59 GMT
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Oct 5, 2020 10:58:47 GMT
Posters who say we don’t score enough goals are spot on! Every promoted team scores for fun and our average goal per match is ca. 1? We’ve had this problem for donkey’s years and even the donkey wants the monkey off it’s back before the tide comes in and the donkey gets crabs around it’s balls?!
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Post by franklin on Oct 5, 2020 11:33:49 GMT
I'm very unhappy with out current form not so much results but the general league performances. This league should be one we could and should easily compete in. My fear is if it doesn't work itself out and quickly our lack of creativity and propensity for giving soft goals away will result in another long hard slog and reduce our ability to compete for years to come.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 11:47:13 GMT
If he persists on playing that negative at home against any team in this league then you are right! Needs to grow a pair He does seem to go through these spells. I think he has a tendency to set teams up a certain way, focussing on discipline and structure. Then he unshackles them a bit after a few bad performances, and they do better. It was like that after the Barnsley game at the start of his tenure and at the restart from Covid. Perhaps it will be the case now. I have no problems with the 3-5-2 away from home. It causes problems on the counter when teams are pressing on you. When another team comes here to set up shop though, its not the answer.
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 5, 2020 12:12:23 GMT
Great thread... full of Nostradamus wannabes.
Any chance of the Lottery numbers?
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Post by Uttoxstokie on Oct 5, 2020 12:53:57 GMT
If he persists on playing that negative at home against any team in this league then you are right! Needs to grow a pair He does seem to go through these spells. I think he has a tendency to set teams up a certain way, focussing on discipline and structure. Then he unshackles them a bit after a few bad performances, and they do better. It was like that after the Barnsley game at the start of his tenure and at the restart from Covid. Perhaps it will be the case now. I have no problems with the 3-5-2 away from home. It causes problems on the counter when teams are pressing on you. When another team comes here to set up shop though, its not the answer. He does, thats what so fustrating about it. It was plain to see after at half time yesterday we needed campbell, powell and brown on the pitch to give us more creativity and pace going forward but he left it right until after they scored.
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Post by dirtclod on Oct 5, 2020 14:18:31 GMT
I don't see how people see going up as realistic until we get a settled squad and overcome FFP , just had four bad seasons and money is tight and we still have far too many players that are no good earning big money . The best we can hope for is to get into mid table and play the loan market well in January and see if we can push for 6th but I'd say that's a long shot This...exactly. For this year, would accept being at mid table plus bonuses: Steadily improving squad, established formations/style coupled with a massive loss of overpaids putting us in line with FFP and a plan to get us into top 6 the following year. Oh and had to add this: Going up this quickly into the PL? We'd be the T-bone steak in a pool of piranha.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 5, 2020 14:41:25 GMT
Posters who say we don’t score enough goals are spot on! Every promoted team scores for fun and our average goal per match is ca. 1? We’ve had this problem for donkey’s years and even the donkey wants the monkey off it’s back before the tide comes in and the donkey gets crabs around it’s balls?! After MO'N arrived last season Stoke were the equal 3rd highest scorers in the Championship. We were the 8th best team in terms of points won. The reason we did not get more points and were not placed higher is because we conceded a lot of goals. MO'N is addressing that issue by bringing a LB, defensive MF, and going to 5 at the back. He is succeeding in stopping us shipping loads of goals, because all successful teams defend well, and build on a solid foundation. I doubt MO'N is going throw out all that has been achieved. He will retain sound defensive football and work out a way to start scoring more. Powell and Clucas are not hitting the form they are capable of. Fletcher has not yet got going. Campbell runs out of steam too quickly. Vokes, Gregory, McClean have given 100% but are not good enough. Afobe and Ince have been given plenty of opportunities but are not producing goals or assists and have been discarded. Hopefully MO'N will work this out. If Powell and Clucas hit form we will have a much improved side. I'm confident Fletcher will start scoring but equally sure Vokes and Gregory won't get many. It would be nice if we can pick up a young striker on loan from one of the big clubs who wants to set the workd on fire, but that is not going to happen unless we ship out at least Ince and one other. MO'N has turned our club around from a year ago when we were steaming towards relegation. He has not got going full steam ahead yet but we have to be patient and allow him time to sort out the attack. He was an attacker himself and I'm confident he knows what needs to be done, he just needs the time and support to deliver.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 5, 2020 14:55:29 GMT
Posters who say we don’t score enough goals are spot on! Every promoted team scores for fun and our average goal per match is ca. 1? We’ve had this problem for donkey’s years and even the donkey wants the monkey off it’s back before the tide comes in and the donkey gets crabs around it’s balls?! After MO'N arrived last season Stoke were the equal 3rd highest scorers in the Championship. We were the 8th best team in terms of points won. The reason we did not get more points and were not placed higher is because we conceded a lot of goals. MO'N is addressing that issue by bringing a LB, defensive MF, and going to 5 at the back. He is succeeding in stopping us shipping loads of goals, because all successful teams defend well, and build on a solid foundation. I doubt MO'N is going throw out all that has been achieved. He will retain sound defensive football and work out a way to start scoring more. Powell and Clucas are not hitting the form they are capable of. Fletcher has not yet got going. Campbell runs out of steam too quickly. Vokes, Gregory, McClean have given 100% but are not good enough. Afobe and Ince have been given plenty of opportunities but are not producing goals or assists and have been discarded. Hopefully MO'N will work this out. If Powell and Clucas hit form we will have a much improved side. I'm confident Fletcher will start scoring but equally sure Vokes and Gregory won't get many. It would be nice if we can pick up a young striker on loan from one of the big clubs who wants to set the workd on fire, but that is not going to happen unless we ship out at least Ince and one other. MO'N has turned our club around from a year ago when we were steaming towards relegation. He has not got going full steam ahead yet but we have to be patient and allow him time to sort out the attack. He was an attacker himself and I'm confident he knows what needs to be done, he just needs the time and support to deliver. Again, where has this idea come from that we were absolutely leaking goals to such an extent that we had to completely change a way of playing that had us producing play-off form?
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Post by peterpan1 on Oct 5, 2020 18:39:56 GMT
Maybe going up isn't going to happen this season, however this will probably be the strangest season anyone can remember. Look at yesterday's Prem results.
Our match against Brum was a game we would have lost 12months ago. Likewise not many people would have fancied us to beat Preston away. The Bristol result was disappointing but home and away games are arguably one and the same at the moment with no fans.
So onto Nathan Jones's mad hatters and hopefully another away win.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 6, 2020 11:21:38 GMT
After MO'N arrived last season Stoke were the equal 3rd highest scorers in the Championship. We were the 8th best team in terms of points won. The reason we did not get more points and were not placed higher is because we conceded a lot of goals. MO'N is addressing that issue by bringing a LB, defensive MF, and going to 5 at the back. He is succeeding in stopping us shipping loads of goals, because all successful teams defend well, and build on a solid foundation. I doubt MO'N is going throw out all that has been achieved. He will retain sound defensive football and work out a way to start scoring more. Powell and Clucas are not hitting the form they are capable of. Fletcher has not yet got going. Campbell runs out of steam too quickly. Vokes, Gregory, McClean have given 100% but are not good enough. Afobe and Ince have been given plenty of opportunities but are not producing goals or assists and have been discarded. Hopefully MO'N will work this out. If Powell and Clucas hit form we will have a much improved side. I'm confident Fletcher will start scoring but equally sure Vokes and Gregory won't get many. It would be nice if we can pick up a young striker on loan from one of the big clubs who wants to set the workd on fire, but that is not going to happen unless we ship out at least Ince and one other. MO'N has turned our club around from a year ago when we were steaming towards relegation. He has not got going full steam ahead yet but we have to be patient and allow him time to sort out the attack. He was an attacker himself and I'm confident he knows what needs to be done, he just needs the time and support to deliver. Again, where has this idea come from that we were absolutely leaking goals to such an extent that we had to completely change a way of playing that had us producing play-off form? I think that is a good question that needs exploring. Firstly I would challenge your view that MO'N had us producing play-off form. Yes we were scoring regularly, but on 3rd July with 6 games to go, Stoke were still in a relegation position, with a difficult remaining schedule, and the teams around us improving and having easier schedules. We were still in serious danger of being relegated, not in play-off form. A late flourish secured our position, but we had been inconsistent. Although MO'N substantially improved us, our defending was still very fragile and on 4 occasions teams stuck 3 or more goals past us. If we were to be serious contenders for the play-offs, we needed to significantly improve our defending. You may be of the view that signing Fox and Mikel was sufficient, but clearly MO'N does not. My theory is that he wants to bring youth into the side to replace the older players. Budget restrictions and the long pay roll prevent us going out and buying a team. (We were lucky to snap up Brown.) The young players are CBs and wide or MF players apart from Campbell. (MO'N has clearly ruled out Edwards.) It is logical therefore for him to gradually introduce the young CBs with older heads with them in a 3 CB formation Tymon has played himself into the side by some excellent performances. We are now rock solid at the back IMO, apart from the regular error by Chester. Personally I would rather have Collins in the team, and accept he occasionally has rushes of blood and makes an error. The problem now is scoring. That I believe is more due to Powell and Clucas's lack of form, than it is the system. Plus the strikers are not putting away their chances. This is the issue that needs to be addressed not changing the system. Personally I think Clucas needs dropping. He is not producing and it did not go well with him and Tymon in the team. While Clucas is clearly one of our most talented players, he plays for himself, rather than the other players. That is OK with me if you are scoring, but he isn't. You may be right to say ditch the system, but I think it is too soon to abandon a system that has made us very secure. I think we need to be patient and wait for Powell, Mikel, and Clucas to get into their best form (plus Allen maybe) then we would have a true play-off performances.
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Post by Ex-term-oat-cake on Oct 6, 2020 11:32:48 GMT
Depends what happens when Allen and Verlinden are fit...
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 6, 2020 11:40:15 GMT
Again, where has this idea come from that we were absolutely leaking goals to such an extent that we had to completely change a way of playing that had us producing play-off form? I think that is a good question that needs exploring. Firstly I would challenge your view that MO'N had us producing play-off form. Yes we were scoring regularly, but on 3rd July with 6 games to go, Stoke were still in a relegation position, with a difficult remaining schedule, and the teams around us improving and having easier schedules. We were still in serious danger of being relegated, not in play-off form. A late flourish secured our position, but we had been inconsistent. Although MO'N substantially improved us, our defending was still very fragile and on 4 occasions teams stuck 3 or more goals past us. If we were to be serious contenders for the play-offs, we needed to significantly improve our defending. You may be of the view that signing Fox and Mikel was sufficient, but clearly MO'N does not. My theory is that he wants to bring youth into the side to replace the older players. Budget restrictions and the long pay roll prevent us going out and buying a team. (We were lucky to snap up Brown.) The young players are CBs and wide or MF players apart from Campbell. (MO'N has clearly ruled out Edwards.) It is logical therefore for him to gradually introduce the young CBs with older heads with them in a 3 CB formation Tymon has played himself into the side by some excellent performances. We are now rock solid at the back IMO, apart from the regular error by Chester. Personally I would rather have Collins in the team, and accept he occasionally has rushes of blood and makes an error. The problem now is scoring. That I believe is more due to Powell and Clucas's lack of form, than it is the system. Plus the strikers are not putting away their chances. This is the issue that needs to be addressed not changing the system. Personally I think Clucas needs dropping. He is not producing and it did not go well with him and Tymon in the team. While Clucas is clearly one of our most talented players, he plays for himself, rather than the other players. That is OK with me if you are scoring, but he isn't. You may be right to say ditch the system, but I think it is too soon to abandon a system that has made us very secure. I think we need to be patient and wait for Powell, Mikel, and Clucas to get into their best form (plus Allen maybe) then we would have a true play-off performances. Has it made us very secure? At home we've almost conceded as many in two games as we did last season between January and the end of the season? Powell and Clucas are affected by the system, so I'm not sure how we can say it's all on them and the system isn't a factor? I don't think the play-off form is up for debate is it? Since his arrival, our form extrapolated was literally reported as having us in a play-off place, I haven't made that up?
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Post by wilcopotter on Oct 6, 2020 12:52:01 GMT
Early days, we certainly need to find the net more, but I think this will happen. Only concern I have we seem to be tinkering with the first XI. Get it’s a long season and games thick and fast, but can’t believe Gregory is the first starter by choice.
Players need a run to excel ie Davies.
Anyway, in MON I trust👍. Without him we’d be playing Peterborough now.
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Post by gingerninja on Oct 6, 2020 13:43:12 GMT
Way too early to say that, we will improve, players will get better and we now have a fine crop of young, talented and motivated players. It may be a season too soon for us, but give him another 2 windows and we might again be right up there.
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Post by mattythestokie on Oct 6, 2020 14:06:04 GMT
From what I remember, there weren’t any signs that we would get promoted in the first two months of the 2007-08 season. In fact, we didn’t really start to put any kind of consistent form together until after Christmas. I feel that we have a good squad at this level, certainly no worse than the better half of the division. It’s a sticky start like every other Stoke start but we are still mid table. The defence is relatively solid. The goals will come and then we’ll climb the table. We were never out of the top 8 in the 07/08 season. We were always in and around the business end of the table. If we can find a way to make it click for a positive second half of the season and a decent push for top 6 then I’ll be happy.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2020 15:07:05 GMT
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Post by wearestoke80 on Oct 6, 2020 18:22:49 GMT
Why do idiots always get their hopes every year ? I’ll be happy if we stay up never mind
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