|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Mar 27, 2020 13:05:26 GMT
Let us at least base our views on facts, not fake news. He did not turn his back on the national anthem. As an aside I've no idea why the UK national anthem was being played at all in club friendly in the USA. We don't even play it before club games in this country. WBA were not representing England or the UK, and of course had non-UK players. He was lined up facing the main stand with the other players. They then turned 90 degrees to face the stars and stripes during the anthems. He remained in the same position. He didn't turn his back on anything. He didn't turn at all. As another aside, I was at Wembley when I saw another very popular Stoke player refuse to stand for the national anthem in the corporate seats, despite other Stoke players trying to pull him to his feet, but of course that doesn't get reported to the media. There are of course different perspectives about Bobby Sands. But the key point is that if you quote someone it doesn't mean that you thereby agree with everything else they have said or done. I'd be in trouble if that were the case I was at the City Ground in November 2018 when McLean linked arms with all the other Stoke players during the pre-match minutes remembrance silence. It's wearing a poppy which he won't do, for reasons which he has articulately explained and which is exercising the freedom of choice we value so much in this country and which my father's generation fought in the war to preserve. I'm not sure what you mean by "hates the system". He's an Irish nationalist, as are many others. He hates some of the things which in the past the British Army has done in Ireland, including Bloody Sunday in his home City, for which the British Government have apologised. We are all the products of our backgrounds to some extent, and it's no surprise he holds the views he does on a united Ireland. But that doesn't mean he isn't entitled, either morally or legally, to earn a living in the UK or that he's hypocritical to do so. That's like saying I don't like Hitler but I'll still happily take a good quote of his. Doesn't wash with me. We are all entitled to our opinion on the matter, I'll crack open a bottle of champagne when he does go. Of course it isn't. You can't legitimately refute the general point by finding just about the most extreme example anyone could ever think of. You are of course entitled to your opinion, just like James McLean. But you are not entitled to say things which aren't true.
|
|
|
Post by PotteringThrough on Mar 27, 2020 13:13:59 GMT
Godwins Law - Page 4, or was it sooner?
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Mar 27, 2020 13:14:19 GMT
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 27, 2020 13:19:39 GMT
I don't get the fuss. I thought it was quite funny & clever. He's taking the pee out of the situation and the perception of him. I find it strange that people are so keen to be so easily offended. That's exactly how I took it. It's a piss take of the image he's got within football. I agree to a degree, probably a great gag/bit of satire with trusted friends, family and colleagues. On a public social network platform though?! Dumb as fuck is being kind!
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Mar 27, 2020 13:26:11 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 13:26:30 GMT
Aye, just seen. Deleting his instagram and fined two weeks wages.
Seems quite reasonable really, the joke was in poor taste. The kids inclusion was what made it hard to defend imo.
|
|
|
Post by neckender78 on Mar 27, 2020 13:32:06 GMT
Like why it's funny to dress up like a terrorist in front of his young kids? What he does with his kids is his own business and he aint dressed up has a terrorist for fucks sake he has a balaclava on and how do you know he aint teaching them about the troubles and was making a point about why people call him a terrorist sympathiser, people are just been silly now, leave the guy alone, so he made a ibad call , i have more going on in my life to worry about then a guy in a balaclava What he does with his kids is his own business... Correct But not when you share it with thousands on social media what many will interpret as pro Republican terrorism. He's a complete bellend again with no thought for those who pay his wages. All you who want to keep defending him fine your choice but as those defenders who keep saying he has the right to his beliefs then by that rationale please dont be offended by other Stoke fans who find his beliefs and behaviour abhorrent along with a large section of fans of other clubs in the country. Bored of him and the conflict in our supporter base because of him the sooner he fucks off the better
|
|
|
Post by Pretty Little Boother on Mar 27, 2020 13:32:41 GMT
I don't get the fuss. I thought it was quite funny & clever. He's taking the pee out of the situation and the perception of him. I find it strange that people are so keen to be so easily offended. That's exactly how I took it. It's a piss take of the image he's got within football. He moans his sack off about abuse, but because he's had no attention for a month or two because of his injury and then coronavirus, he decides to whip the whole thing up again totally unprovoked. It only works as satire if it's a current event, it was totally dormant until he brought it up for literally no reason. He's a total bell-end and totally not worth the mither. Stupid purchase, stupid man, stupid attention seeker.
|
|
|
Post by Pretty Little Boother on Mar 27, 2020 13:37:32 GMT
He just completely loses any expectation of support against abuse when the thick fucking prick drags up a totally dormant issue.
He deserves worse than he gets to be honest.
|
|
|
Post by onepara on Mar 27, 2020 13:40:24 GMT
He just completely loses any expectation of support against abuse when the thick fucking prick drags up a totally dormant issue. He deserves worse than he gets to be honest. I don't have an Instagram account. What was it that he did?
|
|
|
Post by Pretty Little Boother on Mar 27, 2020 13:48:02 GMT
He just completely loses any expectation of support against abuse when the thick fucking prick drags up a totally dormant issue. He deserves worse than he gets to be honest. I don't have an Instagram account. What was it that he did? He had an IRA style balaclava on and was sitting with his kids, the picture had "Today's history lesson!" with an emoji as the caption. It's on the "When's McClean Back" thread. Far from being offensive imo but it totally undermines his own whiny-little-bitchness when he pisses his knickers complaining about sectarianism.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 13:49:12 GMT
Let us at least base our views on facts, not fake news. He did not turn his back on the national anthem. As an aside I've no idea why the UK national anthem was being played at all in club friendly in the USA. We don't even play it before club games in this country. WBA were not representing England or the UK, and of course had non-UK players. He was lined up facing the main stand with the other players. They then turned 90 degrees to face the stars and stripes during the anthems. He remained in the same position. He didn't turn his back on anything. He didn't turn at all. As another aside, I was at Wembley when I saw another very popular Stoke player refuse to stand for the national anthem in the corporate seats, despite other Stoke players trying to pull him to his feet, but of course that doesn't get reported to the media. There are of course different perspectives about Bobby Sands. But the key point is that if you quote someone it doesn't mean that you thereby agree with everything else they have said or done. I'd be in trouble if that were the case I was at the City Ground in November 2018 when McLean linked arms with all the other Stoke players during the pre-match minutes remembrance silence. It's wearing a poppy which he won't do, for reasons which he has articulately explained and which is exercising the freedom of choice we value so much in this country and which my father's generation fought in the war to preserve. I'm not sure what you mean by "hates the system". He's an Irish nationalist, as are many others. He hates some of the things which in the past the British Army has done in Ireland, including Bloody Sunday in his home City, for which the British Government have apologised. We are all the products of our backgrounds to some extent, and it's no surprise he holds the views he does on a united Ireland. But that doesn't mean he isn't entitled, either morally or legally, to earn a living in the UK or that he's hypocritical to do so. That's like saying I don't like Hitler but I'll still happily take a good quote of his. Doesn't wash with me. We are all entitled to our opinion on the matter, I'll crack open a bottle of champagne when he does go. βThe man who has no sense of history, is like a man who has no ears or eyesβ β Adolf Hitler A decent enough quote that, a sentiment I totally agree with. Hitler was an objectively abhorrent individual, arguably the worst the world has ever seen and he was responsible for untold suffering and terrible acts. Sure I would never use it because to quote Adolf Hitler would make me uncomfortable on a personal level, but if I were to it would not be one and the same as supporting him or anything he has ever done. I would only be supporting that individual quote. Isn't the whole beauty of a quote that it stands alone, the author's relevance is only to give them credit. One quote could mean totally different things to different people, it's not a quote but a great example is the song 'Respect', Otis Reading had written it in regards to one thing and when Aretha Franklin covered it almost identically but having it take on a totally different meaning.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 13:56:49 GMT
He just completely loses any expectation of support against abuse when the thick fucking prick drags up a totally dormant issue. He deserves worse than he gets to be honest. The thick fucking prick ..know him do you? Bet you wouldn't say boo to him πππ
|
|
|
Post by StaffordPotter on Mar 27, 2020 14:06:12 GMT
That's like saying I don't like Hitler but I'll still happily take a good quote of his. Doesn't wash with me. We are all entitled to our opinion on the matter, I'll crack open a bottle of champagne when he does go. βThe man who has no sense of history, is like a man who has no ears or eyesβ β Adolf Hitler A decent enough quote that, a sentiment I totally agree with. Hitler was an objectively abhorrent individual, arguably the worst the world has ever seen and he was responsible for untold suffering and terrible acts. Sure I would never use it because to quote Adolf Hitler would make me uncomfortable on a personal level, but if I were to it would not be one and the same as supporting him or anything he has ever done. I would only be supporting that individual quote. Isn't the whole beauty of a quote that it stands alone, the author's relevance is only to give them credit.Β One quote could mean totally different things to different people, it's not a quote but a great example is the song 'Respect', Otis Reading had written it in regards to one thing and when Aretha Franklin covered it almost identically but having it take on a totally different meaning.Β Which is actually a good quote to use for this instance. He knows the history and what that balaclava represents to many folks. No excusing it, he's totally out of order for this. A two weeks fine and deleting his account is a joke of a punishment. But that's my last say on it. I'll let the happy clappers and those blinded by our red and white stripes stick up for this tosser.
|
|
|
Post by Pretty Little Boother on Mar 27, 2020 14:16:18 GMT
He just completely loses any expectation of support against abuse when the thick fucking prick drags up a totally dormant issue. He deserves worse than he gets to be honest. The thick fucking prick ..know him do you? Bet you wouldn't say boo to him πππ If he's not thick enough to realise how inappropriate this is, then the alternative is that he knowingly holds SCFC in total contempt. And I probably wouldn't cause he's clearly harder than me, don't see what relevance that has though?
|
|
|
Post by foxysgloves on Mar 27, 2020 14:22:40 GMT
The fact that people are actually sticking up for him over this idiotic post is baffling to me. Here is a bloke who is a complete hypocrite (hates the system but quite happy to take the money off that system), turns his back on our national anthem whilst playing for West Brom, quotes Bobby Sands on Twitter AND then sits down during the Rememberance minutes silence. How anyone can keep defending this fucking moron is beyond me. I can't wait for the day this poisonous arsehole leaves our club. Let us at least base our views on facts, not fake news. He did not turn his back on the national anthem. As an aside I've no idea why the UK national anthem was being played at all in club friendly in the USA. We don't even play it before club games in this country. WBA were not representing England or the UK, and of course had non-UK players. He was lined up facing the main stand with the other players. They then turned 90 degrees to face the stars and stripes during the anthems. He remained in the same position. He didn't turn his back on anything. He didn't turn at all. As another aside, I was at Wembley when I saw another very popular Stoke player refuse to stand for the national anthem in the corporate seats, despite other Stoke players trying to pull him to his feet, but of course that doesn't get reported to the media. There are of course different perspectives about Bobby Sands. But the key point is that if you quote someone it doesn't mean that you thereby agree with everything else they have said or done. I'd be in trouble if that were the case I was at the City Ground in November 2018 when McLean linked arms with all the other Stoke players during the pre-match minutes remembrance silence. It's wearing a poppy which he won't do, for reasons which he has articulately explained and which is exercising the freedom of choice we value so much in this country and which my father's generation fought in the war to preserve. I'm not sure what you mean by "hates the system". He's an Irish nationalist, as are many others. He hates some of the things which in the past the British Army has done in Ireland, including Bloody Sunday in his home City, for which the British Government have apologised. We are all the products of our backgrounds to some extent, and it's no surprise he holds the views he does on a united Ireland. But that doesn't mean he isn't entitled, either morally or legally, to earn a living in the UK or that he's hypocritical to do so. Excellent post Malcolm. The problem is, thereβs no black and white in regard to McLeans situation. Itβs multilayered and complex. As he seems to be individually. I donβt like some of the things he says or does. I feel at times he unnecessarily fans the flames of the hatred he then experiences and rightly complains about. But then I have the utmost respect for how he deals with that hatred on a Saturday afternoon and channels his obvious anger into incredibly committed performances. Above and beyond all else though, I havenβt lived the life that he has. My perception of the British government, the British army and the British population is therefore very different to his. Growing up in Derry as he did and experiencing the conflict there at first hand must have an impact and play a direct part in what he does and says today. If we could put everything and everyone into one box for right and one box for wrong then situations like this would be far more simple. But then thatβs not real life.
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Mar 27, 2020 14:24:41 GMT
βThe man who has no sense of history, is like a man who has no ears or eyesβ β Adolf Hitler A decent enough quote that, a sentiment I totally agree with. Hitler was an objectively abhorrent individual, arguably the worst the world has ever seen and he was responsible for untold suffering and terrible acts. Sure I would never use it because to quote Adolf Hitler would make me uncomfortable on a personal level, but if I were to it would not be one and the same as supporting him or anything he has ever done. I would only be supporting that individual quote. Isn't the whole beauty of a quote that it stands alone, the author's relevance is only to give them credit.Β One quote could mean totally different things to different people, it's not a quote but a great example is the song 'Respect', Otis Reading had written it in regards to one thing and when Aretha Franklin covered it almost identically but having it take on a totally different meaning.Β Which is actually a good quote to use for this instance. He knows the history and what that balaclava represents to many folks. No excusing it, he's totally out of order for this. A two weeks fine and deleting his account is a joke of a punishment. But that's my last say on it. I'll let the happy clappers and those blinded by our red and white stripes stick up for this tosser. You can of course argue the history point on both sides of this particular debate. To dismiss those who take a different, more nuanced, view of it to yourself as happy clappers and blinded by red and white stripes is as patronisingly arrogant as it is simply wrong.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 14:26:59 GMT
The thick fucking prick ..know him do you? Bet you wouldn't say boo to him πππ If he's not thick enough to realise how inappropriate this is, then the alternative is that he knowingly holds SCFC in total contempt. And I probably wouldn't cause he's clearly harder than me, don't see what relevance that has though? Very brave calling someone names from behind a keyboard and agree not his smartest moment but the fella doesn't hold the club in total contempt at all so making things up and insulting them anonymously makes you sound ever so smart . You see these idiots yelling abuse at him week in week out and realise what utter cowards they are , almost as much as personally insulting him on a computer. I know you wouldn't dare say a word to him personally you're right, just from your living room. Anyway been done to death and will always be the brave souls on here and in the safety of row K abusing people who really are the thick fucking pricks to quote yourself.
|
|
|
Post by Pretty Little Boother on Mar 27, 2020 14:42:37 GMT
If he's not thick enough to realise how inappropriate this is, then the alternative is that he knowingly holds SCFC in total contempt. And I probably wouldn't cause he's clearly harder than me, don't see what relevance that has though? Very brave calling someone names from behind a keyboard and agree not his smartest moment but the fella doesn't hold the club in total contempt at all so making things up and insulting them anonymously makes you sound ever so smart . You see these idiots yelling abuse at him week in week out and realise what utter cowards they are , almost as much as personally insulting him on a computer. I know you wouldn't dare say a word to him personally you're right, just from your living room. Anyway been done to death and will always be the brave souls on here and in the safety of row K abusing people who really are the thick fucking pricks to quote yourself. Self isolation getting to you, mate?
|
|
|
Post by f1rew0rks on Mar 27, 2020 14:50:36 GMT
The thick fucking prick ..know him do you? Bet you wouldn't say boo to him πππ If he's not thick enough to realise how inappropriate this is, then the alternative is that he knowingly holds SCFC in total contempt. And I probably wouldn't cause he's clearly harder than me, don't see what relevance that has though? clearly!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 14:51:17 GMT
Very brave calling someone names from behind a keyboard and agree not his smartest moment but the fella doesn't hold the club in total contempt at all so making things up and insulting them anonymously makes you sound ever so smart . You see these idiots yelling abuse at him week in week out and realise what utter cowards they are , almost as much as personally insulting him on a computer. I know you wouldn't dare say a word to him personally you're right, just from your living room. Anyway been done to death and will always be the brave souls on here and in the safety of row K abusing people who really are the thick fucking pricks to quote yourself. Self isolation getting to you, mate? Quite enjoying it. I'm not the one making things up about people and abusing them...that sounds like someone struggling with more than self isolation π. All been said in the previous post I guess. Be well.
|
|
|
Post by Pretty Little Boother on Mar 27, 2020 14:51:54 GMT
Self isolation getting to you, mate? Quite enjoying it. I'm not the one making things up about people and abusing them...that sounds like someone struggling with more than self isolation π. All been said in the previous post I guess. Be well. We'll get through it.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 15:04:40 GMT
βThe man who has no sense of history, is like a man who has no ears or eyesβ β Adolf Hitler A decent enough quote that, a sentiment I totally agree with. Hitler was an objectively abhorrent individual, arguably the worst the world has ever seen and he was responsible for untold suffering and terrible acts. Sure I would never use it because to quote Adolf Hitler would make me uncomfortable on a personal level, but if I were to it would not be one and the same as supporting him or anything he has ever done. I would only be supporting that individual quote. Isn't the whole beauty of a quote that it stands alone, the author's relevance is only to give them credit. One quote could mean totally different things to different people, it's not a quote but a great example is the song 'Respect', Otis Reading had written it in regards to one thing and when Aretha Franklin covered it almost identically but having it take on a totally different meaning. Which is actually a good quote to use for this instance. He knows the history and what that balaclava represents to many folks. No excusing it, he's totally out of order for this. A two weeks fine and deleting his account is a joke of a punishment. But that's my last say on it. I'll let the happy clappers and those blinded by our red and white stripes stick up for this tosser. Yes, a good quote to use in this instance, you don't care that Adolf Hitler was the author. Just like McClean may have felt his quote good for his scenario, and may not have cared Bobby Sands was the author. I think that's a bit of a pathetic and childish attempt to get the last word on the matter, which is usually the response of someone struggling to defend their argument. I hope you think on it all, and can comeback and maybe just recognise that there's atleast some nuance to McClean's situation and do your best to put yourself in the shoes of James McClean and many of the other Irish. Worth also everyone remembering this is not something that began with the IRA, Irish racism had existed for hundreds of years and it's no wonder why so many have such strong feelings towards the British. At the end of the day you don't have to agree with someone's stance to try and understand their mindset. Surely what is more important is not who thinks this, and who thinks that, but why the respective parties think this or that. It's never as simple as you are acting like it is.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 27, 2020 15:07:16 GMT
He's basically just shat on any moral high ground and widespread understanding that he had amongst most reasonable people.
This is all grist to the mill for Billy from Barnsley, Harry from Huddersfield and all the other boneheads who will now feel fully justified in their previous actions.
He's a fucking idiot.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 15:07:40 GMT
No matter where your views stand on James McClean, something that cannot be argued, is that he is nowhere near good enough as a footballer to be worth all the ridiculous baggage he brings with him.
|
|
|
Post by kronkie on Mar 27, 2020 15:19:33 GMT
No matter where your views stand on James McClean, something that cannot be argued, is that he is nowhere near good enough as a footballer to be worth all the ridiculous baggage he brings with him. I dont see him being in MON plans for next season, he just isn't good enough, so get rid. Hes bought enough bad publicity to our club.
|
|
|
Post by pottersrule on Mar 27, 2020 15:21:53 GMT
That's exactly how I took it. It's a piss take of the image he's got within football. I agree to a degree, probably a great gag/bit of satire with trusted friends, family and colleagues. On a public social network platform though?! Dumb as fuck is being kind! Yes he has certainly type cast himself as the proverbial Paddy!
|
|
|
Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 27, 2020 15:23:53 GMT
I agree to a degree, probably a great gag/bit of satire with trusted friends, family and colleagues. On a public social network platform though?! Dumb as fuck is being kind! Yes he has certainly type cast himself as the proverbial Paddy! Racist!
|
|
|
Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 27, 2020 15:27:34 GMT
No matter where your views stand on James McClean, something that cannot be argued, is that he is nowhere near good enough as a footballer to be worth all the ridiculous baggage he brings with him. I dont see him being in MON plans for next season, he just isn't good enough, so get rid. Hes bought enough bad publicity to our club. On the contrary - as a footballer I think he's right up MON's street.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 15:29:59 GMT
No matter where your views stand on James McClean, something that cannot be argued, is that he is nowhere near good enough as a footballer to be worth all the ridiculous baggage he brings with him. I don't see him as carrying any baggage that concerns me whatsoever. Seems to get on well with everyone on the team, works undeniably hard and has had a good relationship with all of our managers. If your idea of 'baggage' is a few weapons on the oatcake not liking him then somehow I can look past that.
|
|