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Post by Eggybread on Feb 20, 2020 12:02:00 GMT
Depends is a very loose term.I do not employ anyone on minimum wage and we do offer job benefits (bonus,health care,paid sick).I cannot speak for my customers or suppliers which my company also (depends on). Changes WILL be made and everyone will be kicking and stamping when they realise that we do need immigration and as unemployment is at a low we haven't seen for decades I will again say that the UK does not have the people to fill the job gaps taken up by immigrants.Its not rocket science is it. Reading between the lines, you've benefitted from the availability of people from a large pool who by the large numbers supress the wages by keeping them low, probably not much above the minimum wage The UK may not have all the numbers to fill the gap, but with the right advice, training they may be able to move up into better jobs and the lower skilled jobs, (and I don't count all hospitals, care home jobs etc. in that) be filled with immigrants I would like to know how you think I have benefited as you say from a large pool when you dont even know what pool Im fishing in. You can read between the lines as much as you like,but you dont know and Im afraid it wont fit your agenda. And no we dont pay just above minimum wage.This has been talked about before on here and Im not prepared to divulge anything else about pay other than what I have just mentioned.
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Post by Eggybread on Feb 20, 2020 12:02:43 GMT
May have to think twice about going abroad as there is no way I would get 70 points to get back in. ! ! 🥺 Your British passport doesn't require any points to get back in does it ?
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 20, 2020 12:09:01 GMT
Circumstances change I remember a mortgage interest rate of 15.75 or thereabouts it was a while ago 👴 which accounted for about two weeks wages alone to pay. People lose jobs and have to get two to maintain where they were. In a perfect world I agree one job if enough for anyone but if a person wants or needs to do more than one job then that's a positive not a negative. I would agree with you in respect of people needing to take extra work on if absolutely necessary due to circumstances. I also remember the 15% interest rate and the hardship it caused. My point is we've got a generation who want and expect everything now rather than sitting down, look at what they can afford and then plan sensibly for their future hopefully avoiding getting to a point where they are living beyond their limits. I'm not saying everyone is like this but in my experience from what I've seen at work there's a lot who are. I agree and I've made the same point to live within your means, but it does change with circumstances. I'm a massive advocate of planning for retirement and I bang on all the time to my boys. So far so good neither are chasing luxury but enjoyment and life.
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Post by Eggybread on Feb 20, 2020 12:09:33 GMT
Why three jobs?That is what you must be asking.No one should have to do more than one job to make ends meet.Again people seem to defend this as though its something to be proud of. The engineering strikes early 80's, we were only working three days a week thanks to the Trade Unions! we eventually went back we gained the best part of fcuk all, needs must you find a way to pay the bills it's called having a work ethic. We got through by the skin of our teeth thanks to hard work foregoing holidays, cars etc. I am proud of what I did to fucking right I am, would I do it again for my family again to damn right I would. Why were you on strike? Plus if you hate unions so much why didnt you walk through ,the miners did (some of them).
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 20, 2020 12:10:27 GMT
Reading between the lines, you've benefitted from the availability of people from a large pool who by the large numbers supress the wages by keeping them low, probably not much above the minimum wage The UK may not have all the numbers to fill the gap, but with the right advice, training they may be able to move up into better jobs and the lower skilled jobs, (and I don't count all hospitals, care home jobs etc. in that) be filled with immigrants I would like to know how you think I have benefited as you say from a large pool when you dont even know what pool Im fishing in. You can read between the lines as much as you like,but you dont know and Im afraid it wont fit your agenda. And no we dont pay just above minimum wage.This has been talked about before on here and Im not prepared to divulge anything else about pay other than what I have just mentioned.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 20, 2020 12:12:27 GMT
The engineering strikes early 80's, we were only working three days a week thanks to the Trade Unions! we eventually went back we gained the best part of fcuk all, needs must you find a way to pay the bills it's called having a work ethic. We got through by the skin of our teeth thanks to hard work foregoing holidays, cars etc. I am proud of what I did to fucking right I am, would I do it again for my family again to damn right I would. Why were you on strike? Plus if you hate unions so much why didnt you walk through ,the miners did (some of them). Errrmmm for better pay did we get it with the lost wages not a fcuking chance, would you walk through a picket line at the age of 20 ?
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Post by Eggybread on Feb 20, 2020 12:14:59 GMT
Why were you on strike? Plus if you hate unions so much why didnt you walk through ,the miners did (some of them). Errrmmm for better pay did we get it with the lost wages not a fcuking chance, would you walk through a picket line at the age of 20 ? So your beef should be with the bosses shit pay not the unions.Plus yes I would have walked through at twenty, if it was a choice between my family and work mates.As you say family every time,(and proud of it) Family at 20 ,mortgage?
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Post by Eggybread on Feb 20, 2020 12:16:04 GMT
I would like to know how you think I have benefited as you say from a large pool when you dont even know what pool Im fishing in. You can read between the lines as much as you like,but you dont know and Im afraid it wont fit your agenda. And no we dont pay just above minimum wage.This has been talked about before on here and Im not prepared to divulge anything else about pay other than what I have just mentioned. Not arsed but what is that supposed to mean ? Something not to your liking so you just dismiss it.
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 20, 2020 12:17:13 GMT
Errrmmm for better pay did we get it with the lost wages not a fcuking chance, would you walk through a picket line at the age of 20 ? So your beef should be with the bosses shit pay not the unions.Plus yes I would have walked through at twenty, if it was a choice between my family and work mates.As you say family every time. I cant help this but isn't that a rather selfish attitude for somebody who cares for the poor 😁
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Post by Eggybread on Feb 20, 2020 12:19:51 GMT
So your beef should be with the bosses shit pay not the unions.Plus yes I would have walked through at twenty, if it was a choice between my family and work mates.As you say family every time. I cant help this but isn't that a rather selfish attitude for somebody who cares for the poor 😁 I was in craps mind. But Im right.
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 20, 2020 12:21:25 GMT
I cant help this but isn't that a rather selfish attitude for somebody who cares for the poor 😁 I was in craps mind. But Im right. I'm not sure now I think your political view is moving to the "dark" side 🤔
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Post by thequietman on Feb 20, 2020 12:36:16 GMT
To add to the debate I'll suggest lowering the retirement age to imho 60. It gives workers a life after work to enjoy it frees up jobs and encourages employment as there is a realistic life after. Most folk pop their clogs within a relatively short time after retirement. Voluntary not compulsory but for a person just starting out to know they cant retire until 67 or so is sole destroying. Now to pay for this requires pension provision and I know there will be concerns about how but increase % contribution for all. It's just a thought not a fully costed plan. Blimey Franklin, you've cheered me up. Here I was thinking retirement was a decade away. Now you suggest I can retire in just 5 years but not to worry that I'll shuffle off this mortal coil soon afterwards.
Talk about giving & taking in the same breath !
Being serious, there's some benefit to lower retirement age freeing up jobs down the chain for younger people.
Unemployment figures fall, possibly the ecomony gets stronger. Good for everyone.
But there's major disadvantages too: The youngsters would probably be on significantly lower salaries than the retiring oldsters were. So the government get much less in tax & NI income. Pension & benefits payouts to the elderly would increase significantly.
What you gain on the swings, you lose on the roundabouts.
There's been countless policies to reduce unemployment over the decades. Some worked better than others, all of them ultimately cost money although do produce some benefits.
Sadly I'm no expert and don't have a sensible answer. I'll just continue to deride all politicians for not thinking their policies through properly. And I mean all, regardless of their political flavour.
Maybe I'll email Priti and suggest that anyone on unemployment benefit for 6 months has to do a 3 month spell of national service ***. Instantly they're taken out of the unemployment figures. Some of them might even prove their mettle and join the forces permanently. Most would learn skills and become more employable.
*** subject to a maximum age limit of, say, 35 for health & risk reasons. That gives me a safe margin of 20 years should I ever lose my job & have to go on benefits.
Of course, I'll deny all culpability when someone with more sense than me looks into the implications & the brown stuff hits the fan. You didn't hear it here first.
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Post by Northy on Feb 20, 2020 12:46:10 GMT
To add to the debate I'll suggest lowering the retirement age to imho 60. It gives workers a life after work to enjoy it frees up jobs and encourages employment as there is a realistic life after. Most folk pop their clogs within a relatively short time after retirement. Voluntary not compulsory but for a person just starting out to know they cant retire until 67 or so is sole destroying. Now to pay for this requires pension provision and I know there will be concerns about how but increase % contribution for all. It's just a thought not a fully costed plan. Or make it 55 and give us a £1m to spend in the UK
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 20, 2020 12:48:32 GMT
To add to the debate I'll suggest lowering the retirement age to imho 60. It gives workers a life after work to enjoy it frees up jobs and encourages employment as there is a realistic life after. Most folk pop their clogs within a relatively short time after retirement. Voluntary not compulsory but for a person just starting out to know they cant retire until 67 or so is sole destroying. Now to pay for this requires pension provision and I know there will be concerns about how but increase % contribution for all. It's just a thought not a fully costed plan. Blimey Franklin, you've cheered me up. Here I was thinking retirement was a decade away. Now you suggest I can retire in just 5 years but not to worry that I'll shuffle off this mortal coil soon afterwards.
Talk about giving & taking in the same breath !
Being serious, there's some benefit to lower retirement age freeing up jobs down the chain for younger people.
Unemployment figures fall, possibly the ecomony gets stronger. Good for everyone.
But there's major disadvantages too: The youngsters would probably be on significantly lower salaries than the retiring oldsters were. So the government get much less in tax & NI income. Pension & benefits payouts to the elderly would increase significantly.
What you gain on the swings, you lose on the roundabouts.
There's been countless policies to reduce unemployment over the decades. Some worked better than others, all of them ultimately cost money although do produce some benefits.
Sadly I'm no expert and don't have a sensible answer. I'll just continue to deride all politicians for not thinking their policies through properly. And I mean all, regardless of their political flavour.
Maybe I'll email Priti and suggest that anyone on unemployment benefit for 6 months has to do a 3 month spell of national service ***. Instantly they're taken out of the unemployment figures. Some of them might even prove their mettle and join the forces permanently. Most would learn skills and become more employable.
*** subject to a maximum age limit of, say, 35 for health & risk reasons. That gives me a safe margin of 20 years should I ever lose my job & have to go on benefits.
Of course, I'll deny all culpability when someone with more sense than me looks into the implications & the brown stuff hits the fan. You didn't hear it here first.
Dont worry your the exception to the rule I'm sure you'll be fine. It is true though mate 67 is too high. For state pension 35years of NI contribution is the max in my understanding. So anything above that is of no direct benefit to the worker. I'm not 100% but that's my thoughts, so why would or should anyone be expected to pay to a pension that is complete after 35years. So in theory 35 years of full contribution and your pension is sorted. So should NI be reduced at 35 years to allow private contributions to top up the state pension or just for a few extra quid per month in your pocket. 🤷♂️
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 20, 2020 12:49:05 GMT
Errrmmm for better pay did we get it with the lost wages not a fcuking chance, would you walk through a picket line at the age of 20 ? So your beef should be with the bosses shit pay not the unions.Plus yes I would have walked through at twenty, if it was a choice between my family and work mates.As you say family every time,(and proud of it) Family at 20 ,mortgage? If you were faced with that situation and you as the brave man you are had crossed those lines I can assure you that a) you would have had a right kicking and b) would be looking for another job, and yes a family and mortgage at 19 actually is there something wrong with that ? it was safer and easier to get two other part time jobs than be a scab, by the way we had no help from the state again I am proud of what I did and would do the same again.
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 20, 2020 13:49:16 GMT
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Post by musik on Feb 20, 2020 14:19:54 GMT
See it as the transfer window
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 20, 2020 19:26:19 GMT
If you were rating it out of 10? I'll judge them at the next GE and cast my vote accordingly. Keeping your powder dry, I like it.
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 20, 2020 19:36:10 GMT
I'll judge them at the next GE and cast my vote accordingly. Keeping your powder dry, I like it. That's what matters is it not I cant influence anything other than where I put my X. "New Labour" won in part due to Blair being upbeat and positive this current bunch of Labour no Mark's make me want to reach for the fluoxetine.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 20, 2020 19:42:00 GMT
Keeping your powder dry, I like it. That's what matters is it not I cant influence anything other than where I put my X. "New Labour" won in part due to Blair being upbeat and positive this current bunch of Labour no Mark's make me want to reach for the fluoxetine. Bliar is now suggesting that Labour should join forces with the Lib Dems. to sand a chance against the Tories, desperate, desperate stuff, here's a radical idea maybe they should start listening to their "grass roots" historical voters and their concerns and act in their best interests.
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 20, 2020 19:45:40 GMT
That's what matters is it not I cant influence anything other than where I put my X. "New Labour" won in part due to Blair being upbeat and positive this current bunch of Labour no Mark's make me want to reach for the fluoxetine. Bliar is now suggesting that Labour should join forces with the Lib Dems. to sand a chance against the Tories, desperate, desperate stuff, here's a radical idea maybe they should start listening to their "grass roots" historical voters and their concerns and act in their best interests. Labour are finished I cant see them ever forming a majority government. They have traditionally needed Scotland and that's gone. Not a cat in hells chance will they govern again unless it's a hung parliament in a coalition. The tories would need to cluster fuck this country into armagedon to lose to them.
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Post by vokeswagen on Feb 20, 2020 19:50:43 GMT
Bliar is now suggesting that Labour should join forces with the Lib Dems. to sand a chance against the Tories, desperate, desperate stuff, here's a radical idea maybe they should start listening to their "grass roots" historical voters and their concerns and act in their best interests. Labour are finished I cant see them ever forming a majority government. They have traditionally needed Scotland and that's gone. Not a cat in hells chance will they govern again unless it's a hung parliament in a coalition. The tories would need to cluster fuck this country into armagedon to lose to them. This is exactly what people said about the Tories from 1997 to about 2006. People have short memories.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 20, 2020 19:54:09 GMT
Bliar is now suggesting that Labour should join forces with the Lib Dems. to sand a chance against the Tories, desperate, desperate stuff, here's a radical idea maybe they should start listening to their "grass roots" historical voters and their concerns and act in their best interests. Labour are finished I cant see them ever forming a majority government. They have traditionally needed Scotland and that's gone. Not a cat in hells chance will they govern again unless it's a hung parliament in a coalition. The tories would need to cluster fuck this country into armagedon to lose to them. Agree mate they will never appeal to a majority on their own again, their Marxist policies appealed to a minority of weirdo's, freaks, libtard celebrities, champagne socialists and the under class's, the rest of their historical voters have turned their backs on them possibly forever, oh well never mind, the swilled eyed loons will continue to make all the noise, empty vessels make most sound whilst the majority of us ignore their bluster and carry on. Priti is doing pretty well thus far let's hope she continues rooting out the illegals and getting the work shy off their arses.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Feb 20, 2020 19:55:59 GMT
Labour are finished I cant see them ever forming a majority government. They have traditionally needed Scotland and that's gone. Not a cat in hells chance will they govern again unless it's a hung parliament in a coalition. The tories would need to cluster fuck this country into armagedon to lose to them. This is exactly what people said about the Tories from 1997 to about 2006. People have short memories. You are exactly right. People are fickle and end up with complete amnesia over their own 180's.
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 20, 2020 19:58:22 GMT
This is exactly what people said about the Tories from 1997 to about 2006. People have short memories. You are exactly right. People are fickle and end up with complete amnesia over their own 180's. With one big difference the SNP, Scotland are lost to them now.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Feb 20, 2020 20:03:04 GMT
You are exactly right. People are fickle and end up with complete amnesia over their own 180's. With one big difference the SNP, Scotland are lost to them now. And in that respect you are likely right. Although again people said that in 2015 in and 2017 the SNP lost a load of seats. Still acoalition government and long overdue electoral reform and the Tories will struggle to form a government of any kind until the the major parties split. Which probably wouldnt be long.
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Post by vokeswagen on Feb 20, 2020 20:03:17 GMT
You are exactly right. People are fickle and end up with complete amnesia over their own 180's. With one big difference the SNP, Scotland are lost to them now. The entire landscape has changed. London wasn't so Labour in 1997, Scotland had some Tories... The point remains that it's short sighted to say Labour will never be elected again, based on past history. It's unpredictable. EDIT: actually the Tories won no seats outside England! Misremembered that. Still goes to show how things can change...
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 20, 2020 20:12:53 GMT
With one big difference the SNP, Scotland are lost to them now. And in that respect you are likely right. Although again people said that in 2015 in and 2017 the SNP lost a load of seats. Still acoalition government and long overdue electoral reform and the Tories will struggle to form a government of any kind until the the major parties split. Which probably wouldnt be long. Loads is a bit extreme but again Labour need most of their seats unless the tories completely fuck it up. So unless the SNP are wiped out Labour will struggle in the rest of the uk to govern alone.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 20, 2020 20:13:26 GMT
This is exactly what people said about the Tories from 1997 to about 2006. People have short memories. You are exactly right. People are fickle and end up with complete amnesia over their own 180's. Yet despite 10 years in opposition to some shit government they have gone backwards into 1930's loss territory , they have lost the trust of natural Labour voters with their outdated Marxist policies, they have betrayed the wishes of voters over the Brexit vote, there will have to be a monumental shift in ordinary peoples opinions if they are ever to regain government, yet they are still refusing to accept the reality of their situation. They are the original Norwegian Blue dead only on the perch because it has been nailed to it, momentum and the Unions have rooted themselves deep within the Party if they are not removed their influence will continue pushing them even further left.
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Post by vokeswagen on Feb 20, 2020 20:16:34 GMT
You are exactly right. People are fickle and end up with complete amnesia over their own 180's. Yet despite 10 years in opposition to some shit government they have gone backwards into 1930's loss territory , they have lost the trust of natural Labour voters with their outdated Marxist policies, they have betrayed the wishes of voters over the Brexit vote, there will have to be a monumental shift in ordinary peoples opinions if they are ever to regain government, yet they are still refusing to accept the reality of their situation. They are the original Norwegian Blue dead only on the perch because it has been nailed to it, momentum and the Unions have rooted themselves deep within the Party if they are not removed their influence will continue pushing them even further left. To reiterate. In 2007, after 10 years of New Labour, there wasn't an obvious way back for the Tories. Then there was. Things change.
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