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Post by RedandWhite90 on Jan 14, 2020 19:08:52 GMT
The best way to look at world oil and US influence: 1. Venezuela - US sanctions (17.9%) 2. Saudi Arabia - Aramco (Arab America Company) (15.7%) 3. Canada - heavily targeted by US environmental groups and Hollywood Celebs to stop the oil and gas getting to tidewater. These groups are funded by the Rockerfeller's. One major customer only, the US (10%) 4. Iran - US sanctions (9.3%) 5. Iraq - Chaos (8.8%) 6. Russia - No win (6.3%) 7. Kuwait - US friendly (6%) 8. UAE - US friendly (5.8%) 9. US (2.9%) 10. Libya - Chaos (2.9%) 85.6% of proven oil reserves on the planet are listed above. It ain't rocket science. Canada is a huge player for US petroleum approx 45% of US import!
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Post by serpico on Jan 14, 2020 19:31:23 GMT
The invasion of Iraq in 91 was a set up, the Americans pretty much oked the Kuwait incursion and then used it as an excuse to invade, stopping short of going to Baghdad. That war was all about having a successful military intervention to erase “Vietnam syndrome” as bush called it. Like I say Serps, depends what you read/believe and where you get your news from. I'm not a huge subscriber to these set up theories but there is evidence to support some of the claims. With it involving a coalition of over 30 different countries and not just America being involved I would say this one is a bit of a stretch. But in relation to your original point oil and it's export makes up s large % of the US obsession. Well worth a read about the back and forth struggle in Iran since the 50s though including where we were involved, certainly an eye opener. I think it was US ambassador April Glaspie who told saddam that the US had no opinion on their dispute with Kuwait, pretty much giving him the nod to go in, at least that’s what he took it to mean. www.nytimes.com/1990/09/23/world/confrontation-in-the-gulf-us-gave-iraq-little-reason-not-to-mount-kuwait-assault.html
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Post by CalgaryPotter on Jan 14, 2020 19:41:33 GMT
The best way to look at world oil and US influence: 1. Venezuela - US sanctions (17.9%) 2. Saudi Arabia - Aramco (Arab America Company) (15.7%) 3. Canada - heavily targeted by US environmental groups and Hollywood Celebs to stop the oil and gas getting to tidewater. These groups are funded by the Rockerfeller's. One major customer only, the US (10%) 4. Iran - US sanctions (9.3%) 5. Iraq - Chaos (8.8%) 6. Russia - No win (6.3%) 7. Kuwait - US friendly (6%) 8. UAE - US friendly (5.8%) 9. US (2.9%) 10. Libya - Chaos (2.9%) 85.6% of proven oil reserves on the planet are listed above. It ain't rocket science. Canada is a huge player for US petroleum approx 45% of US import! Yep and we sell in from the Western Canadian Sedimentary basin at a USD20 discount per barrel and our refineries in the East buys from Saudi Arabia and the US at full price
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Jan 14, 2020 19:43:02 GMT
Like I say Serps, depends what you read/believe and where you get your news from. I'm not a huge subscriber to these set up theories but there is evidence to support some of the claims. With it involving a coalition of over 30 different countries and not just America being involved I would say this one is a bit of a stretch. But in relation to your original point oil and it's export makes up s large % of the US obsession. Well worth a read about the back and forth struggle in Iran since the 50s though including where we were involved, certainly an eye opener. I think it was US ambassador April Glaspie who told saddam that the US had no opinion on their dispute with Kuwait, pretty much giving him the nod to go in, at least that’s what he took it to mean. www.nytimes.com/1990/09/23/world/confrontation-in-the-gulf-us-gave-iraq-little-reason-not-to-mount-kuwait-assault.htmlNow that is interesting. I would be more inclined to agree with your final sentence than the US giving them the nod to go in. It also appears that there have been multiple publications of what was said which as you would expect vary quite broadly and she has also testified on the matter. From a bit of quick reading my favourite quote on Saddam is "we foolishly did not realise he was stupid" 😬 Certainly adds some meat at least to the bones of an American set up theory but I'm still not totally convinced
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Jan 14, 2020 19:44:47 GMT
Canada is a huge player for US petroleum approx 45% of US import! Yep and we sell in from the Western Canadian Sedimentary basin at a USD20 discount per barrel and our refineries in the East buys from Saudi Arabia and the US at full price Have you considered a referendum on the matter? 😁
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Post by CalgaryPotter on Jan 14, 2020 19:48:01 GMT
Yep and we sell in from the Western Canadian Sedimentary basin at a USD20 discount per barrel and our refineries in the East buys from Saudi Arabia and the US at full price Have you considered a referendum on the matter? 😁 #WEXIT
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Post by serpico on Jan 14, 2020 19:48:57 GMT
Apparently trump has dropped 44,000 bombs per year he’s been in office, pretty amazing that this is just the new normal now and most of these bombings don’t even get reported on widely. I don’t know what makes someone a warmonger but surely dropping bombs on average of one every 12 minutes of your time in office leaves you open to the accusation.
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Post by serpico on Jan 14, 2020 21:27:12 GMT
Now that is interesting. I would be more inclined to agree with your final sentence than the US giving them the nod to go in. It also appears that there have been multiple publications of what was said which as you would expect vary quite broadly and she has also testified on the matter. From a bit of quick reading my favourite quote on Saddam is "we foolishly did not realise he was stupid" 😬 Certainly adds some meat at least to the bones of an American set up theory but I'm still not totally convinced If you’re being generous you could say it’s foolishly ambiguous, she could have made it clear that there would be foreign policy consequences if he attacked Kuwait, imo I think they laid a trap for him.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Jan 14, 2020 22:39:22 GMT
Now that is interesting. I would be more inclined to agree with your final sentence than the US giving them the nod to go in. It also appears that there have been multiple publications of what was said which as you would expect vary quite broadly and she has also testified on the matter. From a bit of quick reading my favourite quote on Saddam is "we foolishly did not realise he was stupid" 😬 Certainly adds some meat at least to the bones of an American set up theory but I'm still not totally convinced If you’re being generous you could say it’s foolishly ambiguous, she could have made it clear that there would be foreign policy consequences if he attacked Kuwait, imo I think they laid a trap for him. I suppose none of us will ever know. I still find it a bit too far-fetched that based on a statement that was 'loosely worded' it gave the OK from America for Saddam Hussain to invade Kuwait. There are also too many variations of the actual wording across multiple reports to purely say that the NYTimes article was 100% correct and even if it was, again I don't see it as a full green light. However, I must thank you as it has given me some decent and interesting reading on events I hadn't read before and I can certainly see how things like this can fan the flames for conspiracy theories. I would never wish to change your own opinion on the matter but for me it just doesn't quite add up.
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Post by serpico on Jan 14, 2020 23:19:57 GMT
If you’re being generous you could say it’s foolishly ambiguous, she could have made it clear that there would be foreign policy consequences if he attacked Kuwait, imo I think they laid a trap for him. I suppose none of us will ever know. I still find it a bit too far-fetched that based on a statement that was 'loosely worded' it gave the OK from America for Saddam Hussain to invade Kuwait. There are also too many variations of the actual wording across multiple reports to purely say that the NYTimes article was 100% correct and even if it was, again I don't see it as a full green light. However, I must thank you as it has given me some decent and interesting reading on events I hadn't read before and I can certainly see how things like this can fan the flames for conspiracy theories. I would never wish to change your own opinion on the matter but for me it just doesn't quite add up. Fair enough, I am a cynical bastard when it comes to this type of thing, I just have a hard time giving them the benefit of the doubt, also remember the whole “babies from incubators” story that came after it, it all seemed very orchestrated.
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Post by serpico on Jan 15, 2020 9:55:51 GMT
Well, at least he’s talking about a deal.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Jan 15, 2020 11:33:25 GMT
There is a 3 letter word that Iran has roughly a 10% total share of in the entire world which explains why America (and the rest of the west for that matter) is so obsessed by Iran. Do the Americans ever actually get the oil though ? And at what cost ? The Iraq war cost The US trillions of dollars, they could have bought all the oil in Iraq for that much! Apart from the more obvious benefits of securing oil, (which may not end up in the US), when "coalition" forces go into these conflicts, it's the victors that get to decide which companies will restore the infrastructure such as capping well and installing new ones, new pipelines and refineries (US oil companies plus BP for us and Total for France), and the private security required to keep the workers safe. As for as the military cost, that's simply money being put back into the arms making economies. It's very easy to point the finger at huge US military spending, but we do it too along with France etc. As for the other coalition counties, there will be favours given and favours to be repaid. Governments exist to allow big business to prosper and take their tax revenue in return and it's been going on since The East India Company. War is great business and we practically invented modern commercial warfare with our Empire.
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Post by serpico on Jan 15, 2020 11:57:10 GMT
Do the Americans ever actually get the oil though ? And at what cost ? The Iraq war cost The US trillions of dollars, they could have bought all the oil in Iraq for that much! Apart from the more obvious benefits of securing oil, (which may not end up in the US), when "coalition" forces go into these conflicts, it's the victors that get to decide which companies will restore the infrastructure such as capping well and installing new ones, new pipelines and refineries (US oil companies plus BP for us and Total for France), and the private security required to keep the workers safe. As for as the military cost, that's simply money being put back into the arms making economies. It's very easy to point the finger at huge US military spending, but we do it too along with France etc. As for the other coalition counties, there will be favours given and favours to be repaid. Governments exist to allow big business to prosper and take their tax revenue in return and it's been going on since The East India Company. War is great business and we practically invented modern commercial warfare with our Empire. Oh yeh, war is huge business, it’s not just weapons manufacturers and big oil either, when they went into Iraq they built those huge bases some of them had golf courses in them so even a golf equipment manufacturer is making money from war, think of all the other stuff you need to kit out bases that house 10s of thousands of troops. It’s pretty futile to think these wars will ever end with such colossal amounts of money to be made, but it’s all essentially paid for by the tax payer, so it’s not really a net benefit for your average US or UK citizen, just narrow sections of the business class. www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/01/pentagon-military-golf-courses-map/
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Jan 15, 2020 12:00:26 GMT
Apart from the more obvious benefits of securing oil, (which may not end up in the US), when "coalition" forces go into these conflicts, it's the victors that get to decide which companies will restore the infrastructure such as capping well and installing new ones, new pipelines and refineries (US oil companies plus BP for us and Total for France), and the private security required to keep the workers safe. As for as the military cost, that's simply money being put back into the arms making economies. It's very easy to point the finger at huge US military spending, but we do it too along with France etc. As for the other coalition counties, there will be favours given and favours to be repaid. Governments exist to allow big business to prosper and take their tax revenue in return and it's been going on since The East India Company. War is great business and we practically invented modern commercial warfare with our Empire. Oh yeh, war is huge business, it’s not just weapons manufacturers and big oil either, when they went into Iraq they built those huge bases some of them had golf courses in them so even a golf equipment manufacturer is making money from war, think of all the other stuff you need to kit out bases that house 10s of thousands of troops. It’s pretty futile to think these wars will ever end with such colossal amounts of money to be made, but it’s all essentially paid for by the tax payer, so it’s not really a net benefit for your average US or UK citizen, just narrow sections of the business class. www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/01/pentagon-military-golf-courses-map/That's pretty much the point I'm making, governments exist for business, not its people. The people need to be kept happy enough, otherwise it all falls down.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Jan 15, 2020 19:56:27 GMT
I suppose none of us will ever know. I still find it a bit too far-fetched that based on a statement that was 'loosely worded' it gave the OK from America for Saddam Hussain to invade Kuwait. There are also too many variations of the actual wording across multiple reports to purely say that the NYTimes article was 100% correct and even if it was, again I don't see it as a full green light. However, I must thank you as it has given me some decent and interesting reading on events I hadn't read before and I can certainly see how things like this can fan the flames for conspiracy theories. I would never wish to change your own opinion on the matter but for me it just doesn't quite add up. Fair enough, I am a cynical bastard when it comes to this type of thing, I just have a hard time giving them the benefit of the doubt, also remember the whole “babies from incubators” story that came after it, it all seemed very orchestrated. Nothing wrong with being a cynical bastard at all, especially when it comes to wars! I quite enjoyed the conversation and I learned quite a lot last night that I wouldn't have done if you had simply agreed with everything I said. 'Healthy debate' is massively under appreciated and I'm looking forward to crossing swords again soon! 👊👌
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Post by serpico on Jan 16, 2020 14:27:33 GMT
Fair enough, I am a cynical bastard when it comes to this type of thing, I just have a hard time giving them the benefit of the doubt, also remember the whole “babies from incubators” story that came after it, it all seemed very orchestrated. Nothing wrong with being a cynical bastard at all, especially when it comes to wars! I quite enjoyed the conversation and I learned quite a lot last night that I wouldn't have done if you had simply agreed with everything I said. 'Healthy debate' is massively under appreciated and I'm looking forward to crossing swords again soon! 👊👌 Just for the record this is what I was referring to with “babies from incubators” a paid actor giving testimony, used to sell the war on a reluctant US population.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 9:15:20 GMT
We just can't trust the Iranians, they're mentally unstable.....
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Post by serpico on Jan 17, 2020 9:40:21 GMT
We just can't trust the Iranians, they're mentally unstable..... What is the context for that comment ? Something to do with the trade deal with China maybe ? ...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 9:53:12 GMT
We just can't trust the Iranians, they're mentally unstable..... What is the context for that comment ? Something to do with the trade deal with China maybe ? ... Sometimes context isn't required fella.....
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Post by serpico on Jan 17, 2020 9:57:10 GMT
What is the context for that comment ? Something to do with the trade deal with China maybe ? ... Sometimes context isn't required fella..... He can’t just be randomly talking about dishwashers, can he ? Was it a metaphor ? ... maybe them rumours about him getting high on cough syrup are true ?
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jan 17, 2020 9:58:59 GMT
TDS.
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Post by serpico on Jan 17, 2020 10:00:22 GMT
Trump dishwasher service ?
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Post by serpico on Jan 17, 2020 10:09:46 GMT
Trump dishwasher service ? Maybe that was trumps plan all along, run for president then use the platform to sell dishwashers, he’s left it 3 years before rolling out his sale pitch so as not to make the scheme obvious.
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Post by mrcoke on Feb 28, 2020 21:58:14 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Feb 28, 2020 22:10:34 GMT
The president is discussing with his advisers a conflict in the Middle East, and he says: “my daughter had a teacher named Mister Pordy who had no interest in nuance. He asked why there is always conflict in the Middle East. My daughter raised her hand and said, “It’s a centuries-old religious conflict involving land and suspicion and culture.” “Wrong”, Mister Pordy said. “It’s because it’s incredibly hot and there’s no water.”
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 3, 2020 20:49:35 GMT
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Post by franklin66 on Mar 3, 2020 20:58:22 GMT
Thank fuck we're an island and wont be contributing to that.
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Post by CalgaryPotter on Mar 11, 2020 4:36:50 GMT
Russia & Saudi oil price war. It’s a race to the bottom for them and the US.
I fear the shit is about to hit the fan!
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Post by tuum on Mar 11, 2020 5:29:04 GMT
Russia & Saudi oil price war. It’s a race to the bottom for them and the US. I fear the shit is about to hit the fan! It is for me too (a race to the bottom). I am invested heavily in oil at $60 per barrel. Only thing I can do now is keep digging (investing) and hope to make up the losses on the rebound.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Mar 11, 2020 7:29:45 GMT
Thank fuck we're an island and wont be contributing to that. Weren’t turkey given €6b to stem migration into the EU 2 years ago? That worked well
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