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Post by mrcoke on Jan 15, 2020 9:36:08 GMT
Actually Jones was right about the Huddersfield match. We had most possession, passed well, had loads of shots, most of which Huddersfield blocked, and loads of corners. It was one of those matches where we failed to score and made a stupid error defending one of their few forays forward and we lost; it happens. I'm not trying to defend the guy, just stating facts, not opinion. MON is also suffering from our forwards failing to hit the target, and stupid defensive errors, but is getting more points with the same players. It isn't a fact that we weren't bad at home to Huddersfield Cokey, come on. That's opinion. Having sterile possession and loads of off-target shots that didn't give their keeper anything to worry about isn't the same as playing well. It was a dreadful game between two dreadful teams that nobody deserved to win but we nevertheless contrived to lose. I think you are putting words into your own mind toxic. (I once went on a communications course that gave all the usual stuff about "it isn't what is said, it's the way it's said, i.e. which words the speaker puts emphasis on", and the importance of body language. One of the things that was covered is we are all pre-programmed in communication on who is giving the message. For example if someone were to say "Margaret Thatcher said..........", no one listens to the following words we are pre-programmed in our heads as to the words we would expect to hear are put that interpretation on whatever she actually said.) Who said anything about playing well? Did I say there weren't lots of shots off target? Jones actually said the team "we didn't play too badly" not "played well" or even "weren't bad". We had loads of shots blocked and as Jones said 2 very good chances to score. I remember thinking (as usual) that I can see what is going to happen, we have dominated play and they are going to score. Our pass accuracy was high. On another day we would have won that match, we didn't gets shots on target and the defence made one silly error and we lost. Your conclusion is the manager is incompetent, which is a fair opinion, as a manager myself I feel for the guy when his employees let him down so badly. (That is not to say he was any good as a manager.) I am not defending his record, I am defending the fact that in Jones opinion we were unlucky to lose to Huddersfield, and in my opinion he is right.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 15, 2020 9:55:52 GMT
It isn't a fact that we weren't bad at home to Huddersfield Cokey, come on. That's opinion. Having sterile possession and loads of off-target shots that didn't give their keeper anything to worry about isn't the same as playing well. It was a dreadful game between two dreadful teams that nobody deserved to win but we nevertheless contrived to lose. I think you are putting words into your own mind toxic. (I once went on a communications course that gave all the usual stuff about "it isn't what is said, it's the way it's said, i.e. which words the speaker puts emphasis on", and the importance of body language. One of the things that was covered is we are all pre-programmed in communication on who is giving the message. For example if someone were to say "Margaret Thatcher said..........", no one listens to the following words we are pre-programmed in our heads as to the words we would expect to hear are put that interpretation on whatever she actually said.) Who said anything about playing well? Did I say there weren't lots of shots off target? Jones actually said the team "we didn't play too badly" not "played well" or even "weren't bad". We had loads of shots blocked and as Jones said 2 very good chances to score. I remember thinking (as usual) that I can see what is going to happen, we have dominated play and they are going to score. Our pass accuracy was high. On another day we would have won that match, we didn't gets shots on target and the defence made one silly error and we lost. Your conclusion is the manager is incompetent, which is a fair opinion, as a manager myself I feel for the guy when his employees let him down so badly. (That is not to say he was any good as a manager.) I am not defending his record, I am defending the fact that in Jones opinion we were unlucky to lose to Huddersfield, and in my opinion he is right. That's fair enough Cokey but again I have to wholeheartedly disagree. In my opinion we were rotten in that game and luck had absolutely nothing to do with it. We didn't do enough to trouble them at one end and were, again, punished for our incompetence at the other.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 10:21:21 GMT
The Huddersfield gamr was absolutely dreadful. Don't try and make out if was anything but that. They were possibly one of the worst sides I've ever seen and we never laid a glove on them. We went at them with all the force and attacking intent of Geoffrey Boycott at the crease. It was utterly toothless and absolutely pathetic.
By contrast, under MoN, we stuck 5 past the very same side away from home.
Jones was a shambolic manager.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 10:28:47 GMT
I'm fed up of people leaving the club and alluding to stuff without ever putting their finger on it. If the players were a horrible bunch of toe rags who were getting up to all sorts of mischief then name names and point to incidents instead of going all edgy and enigmatic. Lambert, Jones and some former players have all done that. If I've understood Jones' remarks properly, he's saying that he bought a bunch of duffers in the summer because he was more focused on bringing in characters than actually winning football games, which is staggering. Having said that, I'm going to don my tin hat and resume my role as the very last nutter in the 'Jones in' club. I think he's right in some senses. We really did have some outrageous misfortune earlier in the season. We went through a spell where absolutely every single mistake that we made led to a goal. It was every bit as astonishing as that year under Pulis where we had a Rob Styles away at Gillingham referee performance in every game for the first few months of the season, culminating in the downright peculiar Martin Atkinson show away at Sunderland. When your side is already low on confidence, it doesn't take too much bad luck to completely flatten you. For all of the mistakes that Jones did make, such as abandoning his diamond system too soon, I would still maintain that the fundamental issue was one of the players thinking 'I'm a Premier League footballer, why do I have to listen to this bloke from Luton?' It's a problem that has plagued us for years now. It was, of course, not helped by Tony Scholes telling Jones that he wasn't allowed to discipline Sam Clucas for a sending off in his preferred manner. We had one poster the other week saying that they'd spoken to Stephen Ward, who said that the players had all decided that the diamond was a waste of time and they didn't want to play it, which just about sums it all up. It's partly why I'm not yet exalting our new manager for getting results against the teams around us, as the players may yet just decide that they can't be bothered. In my opinion, every other issue with his management was second to this main problem. At the end of the day, his work at Luton didn't just happen by accident, and I think we're yet to hear the last of him. Much like Rowett, I think that he will still do a good job in the right circumstances. I have no doubt that, given the opportunity, he'll get himself another job at a Luton-style club and go storming through the leagues again. I just hope that we get our act together and make sure that his new team don't leapfrog past us. How many bottles did he sell you GD
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Post by nott1 on Jan 15, 2020 14:25:41 GMT
I have never known a worse manager in my long life time, and hope never to come across another in the short time I have left.Unless he's an Arsenal manager! You can't have been here for Chris Kamara or Alan Ball, they truly were the lowest moments of being a Stoke fan for me. I was "here" long before then, and he was worse!
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Post by stokie1947 on Jan 15, 2020 14:36:15 GMT
exactly
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Post by Dutchpeter on Jan 15, 2020 17:06:44 GMT
You can't have been here for Chris Kamara or Alan Ball, they truly were the lowest moments of being a Stoke fan for me. I was "here" long before then, and he was worse! One hundred percent true. There was a player signed by Graeme Souness for Southampton who conned then he was a footballer. He was brought on as a substitute, and was so shambolic he was substituted himself. I believe he said he was George Weah’s cousin. Nathan Jones was the managerial equivalent, a fraud and he conned us. The worst manager in my time (since 1978).
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Jan 17, 2020 9:54:11 GMT
I was "here" long before then, and he was worse! One hundred percent true. There was a player signed by Graeme Souness for Southampton who conned then he was a footballer. He was brought on as a substitute, and was so shambolic he was substituted himself. I believe he said he was George Weah’s cousin. Nathan Jones was the managerial equivalent, a fraud and he conned us. The worst manager in my time (since 1978). He has some extraordinary front NJ,implying that the job MON is currently doing is in some way down to the foundations and the chimerical and unquantifiable,much improved environment that he assures us he put in place. I still,even now,due to the mans unwavering conviction in his own abilities,can't work out whether he's as gifted a coach as he genuinely seems to believe and his time with us was just a temporary nadir on an otherwise upward managerial trajectory,or the most singularly deluded and deeply mendacious manager i've ever known us appoint. I notice Barcelona didn't come knocking either...😉😂
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jan 17, 2020 17:23:39 GMT
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Post by superpej on Jan 17, 2020 17:35:10 GMT
I fear Jones has further to fall psychologically if he remains this deluded - he can't move to a different place until he admits to himself his own failings
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 17:49:17 GMT
I dont particularly see what pej finds amusing, unless I'm misreading it.
Nathan Jones says what he wants and is then given a few options. He signs one...all the signings were wank so the options he were presented with were wank.
Those who hired him and implement the process are still here.
Signed some kid on the cheap probably on his say so...wow...cant stop smiling!
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Post by shakermaker on Feb 3, 2020 20:16:46 GMT
Being linked to the newly vacated Bradford job as a replacement for Gary Bowyer.
The right level for NJ, or is he likely to be a disaster wherever he goes?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 20:34:09 GMT
Being linked to the newly vacated Bradford job as a replacement for Gary Bowyer. The right level for NJ, or is he likely to be a disaster wherever he goes? I assume if he takes another job we get to stop paying his wages, assume he is on gardening leave right now.
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Post by werrington on Feb 4, 2020 6:43:48 GMT
Being linked to the newly vacated Bradford job as a replacement for Gary Bowyer. The right level for NJ, or is he likely to be a disaster wherever he goes? I assume if he takes another job we get to stop paying his wages, assume he is on gardening leave right now. He was sacked
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Post by mamasgloves on Feb 4, 2020 9:17:29 GMT
I assume if he takes another job we get to stop paying his wages, assume he is on gardening leave right now. He was sacked Yes, and as such is on 'gardening leave' as we are still paying him and he is without another job
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 4, 2020 9:20:10 GMT
Yes, and as such is on 'gardening leave' as we are still paying him and he is without another job Didn't he pass go and collect a million quid severance pay?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 9:24:14 GMT
Yes, and as such is on 'gardening leave' as we are still paying him and he is without another job Gardening leave is when you are still employed but they don't want you working for them but you can't work for anyone else. He was sacked,there would be a severence package as per his contract
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Post by sneydgreenstokie1 on Feb 4, 2020 9:36:27 GMT
Most packages are now based on still being paid for the job you were doing until you find another job. This was certainly the case with Pardew and Newcastle
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Post by Squeekster on Feb 4, 2020 9:40:33 GMT
Yes, and as such is on 'gardening leave' as we are still paying him and he is without another job Gardening leave is when you are still employed but they don't want you working for them but you can't work for anyone else. He was sacked,there would be a severence package as per his contract I thinks it's common practice for clubs to continue paying sacked managers their monthly wage in the hope they will get another job sooner rather than later so it keeps costs down, big clubs tend to give managers pay outs to sever all ties, Spurs are paying Pocc off in instalments but if he takes a job they stop although they are only tiered for 6 months.
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Post by Squeekster on Feb 4, 2020 9:41:56 GMT
Most packages are now based on still being paid for the job you were doing until you find another job. This was certainly the case with Pardew and Newcastle I think Leeds years ago were paying 3 managers, 2 sacked ones and the current one at the time, Graham was one.
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Post by Cast no shadow on Feb 4, 2020 10:08:39 GMT
Being linked to the newly vacated Bradford job as a replacement for Gary Bowyer. The right level for NJ, or is he likely to be a disaster wherever he goes? Stuart McCall to be re-appointed
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 10:31:01 GMT
Being linked to the newly vacated Bradford job as a replacement for Gary Bowyer. The right level for NJ, or is he likely to be a disaster wherever he goes? Stuart McCall to be re-appointed They'd be better off with Kamara than Jones 😁
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 12:11:36 GMT
I assume if he takes another job we get to stop paying his wages, assume he is on gardening leave right now. He was sacked That's how it typically works in France but not in England. He is employed my Stoke still he just isn't managing for us anymore, that is until he accepts a new job where his wages will then cease.
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Post by stokecitystar2011 on Feb 4, 2020 12:26:48 GMT
You can't have been here for Chris Kamara or Alan Ball, they truly were the lowest moments of being a Stoke fan for me. I was "here" long before then, and he was worse! 54 years a Stokie here, Ball and Kamara, possibly even Mills as well were the dark days for me - seemed worse than Jones in my opinion, which is remarkable being as Jones is fresh in mind. Maybe I cared a little more back then?
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Post by werrington on Feb 4, 2020 12:27:06 GMT
That's how it typically works in France but not in England. He is employed my Stoke still he just isn't managing for us anymore, that is until he accepts a new job where his wages will then cease. It is unless they came to an agreement at the point of termination?
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 13, 2020 18:33:17 GMT
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Post by redwhite on Feb 13, 2020 18:35:20 GMT
He looks worryingly unwell.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2020 18:43:02 GMT
Looks like his fellow countryman, Siadwell there.
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Post by Jimm on Feb 13, 2020 18:48:01 GMT
Haven't Blackpool fans already been through enough?!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2020 18:56:12 GMT
Haven't Blackpool fans already been through enough?! He might do ok. Perhaps his system will work again at that level but be a bit apprehensive if was a Blackpool fan.
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