Whilst he wasn't as bad as the results made him out to be (especially as Butland's form/crazy period effectively pissed away 12 points, single handedly) his complete pursuit of the diamond bollocks without the players to suit it was his ultimate downfall. Whilst he had possible excuses in the form of players/genuine bad luck, the repeated flogging of the dead horse of formation/manic tactics undid pretty much every positive he might have achieved behind the scenes.
I get the Butland thing but he could have dropped him earlier
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 14, 2020 8:16:42 GMT
It's staggeringly naive and full-on delusional at times. It reads like he still has absolutely no idea what went wrong. I really wanted to like the bloke and bought what he was selling but Jesus Christ, we'd be pretty much as good as down now if he'd stayed.
It's staggeringly naive and full-on delusional at times. It reads like he still has absolutely no idea what went wrong. I really wanted to like the bloke and bought what we was selling but Jesus Christ, we'd be pretty much as good as down now if he'd stayed.
Instead of writing a journal to see where he went wrong, he should just read his opening gambit.
He thought he could come in a treat a bunch of failing wannabe premier league players in the same way he did luton towns aspiring league 2 players and worse still, Charlton youth players.
It's staggeringly naive and full-on delusional at times. It reads like he still has absolutely no idea what went wrong. I really wanted to like the bloke and bought what we was selling but Jesus Christ, we'd be pretty much as good as down now if he'd stayed.
Instead of writing a journal to see where he went wrong, he should just read his opening gambit.
He thought he could come in a treat a bunch of failing wannabe premier league players in the same way he did luton towns aspiring league 2 players and worse still, Charlton youth players.
Look no further nathan.
The thing I found scariest was that he genuinely thought even with hindsight that his summer signings solved a lot of the problems...
He had a solid back room team at Luton that he never had at stoke, I was skeptical when he came but was willing to give him a chance but it was disastrous, he got totally exposed I doubt he has much of a career unless he is at a club surrounded by some wise heads.
"England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution" George Orwell
Post by y_oh_y_delilah on Jan 14, 2020 9:16:00 GMT
I really really wanted Nath to succeed at Stoke. Loved his apparent passion and commitment, his chest thumping lunacy and as a mere fan, probably backed him far longer than I really should have. After all compared to, the infidelity better manager but monochrome MoN his craziness was like a breath of fresh air. Problem for Mr. Jones was he was many fathoms out of his depth and in charge of the playing affairs of a club far bigger than his talents as a manager.
It's staggeringly naive and full-on delusional at times. It reads like he still has absolutely no idea what went wrong. I really wanted to like the bloke and bought what he was selling but Jesus Christ, we'd be pretty much as good as down now if he'd stayed.
I really really wanted Nath to succeed at Stoke. Loved his apparent passion and commitment, his chest thumping lunacy and as a mere fan, probably backed him far longer than I really should have. After all compared to, the infidelity better manager but monochrome MoN his craziness was like a breath of fresh air. Problem for Mr. Jones was he was many fathoms out of his depth and in charge of the playing affairs of a club far bigger than his talents as a manager.
Totally agree with all of that.
I desperately wanted Jones to turn things round and succeed, every day he was at our club. I loved his passion, but in football you are judged by results, not the impression you make or how nice you are. I'm afraid he was an unmitigated disaster for us; not just in results but also the player legacy he left. Berahino was got rid of on his watch, but that was a case of Berahino sacking himself.
MON is more my style of manager, head down and get on with the job. He has a massive mess to sort out. Priority is to get rid of as many players as possible, survive in the Championship, if possible, (I doubt we will sign anyone, maybe a loan) and then start the rebuilding process in the summer.
Rebuilding is going to take at least 2 years till we have got rid of all the useless players. Along the way we are going to have to grin and bare seeing some of our best/young players being attracted away from the club. It will be a long painful process. We are not in a Millwall or Middlesbrough position where a quick fix can be achieved.
Today we just have to hope we don't follow Wigan, Blackburn, Sunderland etc. who all went from the Prem to League 1. MON will do well to avoid relegation this season with a reduced squad. Hopefully there will be enough Barnsley and Huddersfield performances to avoid the drop.
why the feck are we still posting about him one of the worst manager's in our history admin close this thread
Maybe he was fella but it ain’t up to you (or me) what people want to talk about on here. It’s Stoke related, and it’s relevant to where we are right now.
“We got some wonderful results, ironically against some of the bigger sides in the league – the Leedses and Fulhams and Swanseas."
For "the Leedses and Fulhams and Swanseas" read "against Leeds, Fulham and Swansea"
“We went into the first game and then that set the tone really.”
The opening day QPR home defeat absolutely knocked the stuffing out of us and gave the lie to the idea that pre-season had been a triumph and killed any momentum dead in the water.
“We got some wonderful results, ironically against some of the bigger sides in the league – the Leedses and Fulhams and Swanseas."
For "the Leedses and Fulhams and Swanseas" read "against Leeds, Fulham and Swansea"
“We went into the first game and then that set the tone really.”
The opening day QPR home defeat absolutely knocked the stuffing out of us and gave the lie to the idea that pre-season had been a triumph and killed any momentum dead in the water.
“We got some wonderful results, ironically against some of the bigger sides in the league – the Leedses and Fulhams and Swanseas."
For "the Leedses and Fulhams and Swanseas" read "against Leeds, Fulham and Swansea"
“We went into the first game and then that set the tone really.”
The opening day QPR home defeat absolutely knocked the stuffing out of us and gave the lie to the idea that pre-season had been a triumph and killed any momentum dead in the water.
I’m not sure how winning those 3 games was ironic in any way.
I really really wanted Nath to succeed at Stoke. Loved his apparent passion and commitment, his chest thumping lunacy and as a mere fan, probably backed him far longer than I really should have. After all compared to, the infidelity better manager but monochrome MoN his craziness was like a breath of fresh air. Problem for Mr. Jones was he was many fathoms out of his depth and in charge of the playing affairs of a club far bigger than his talents as a manager.
Totally agree with all of that.
I desperately wanted Jones to turn things round and succeed, every day he was at our club. I loved his passion, but in football you are judged by results, not the impression you make or how nice you are. I'm afraid he was an unmitigated disaster for us; not just in results but also the player legacy he left. Berahino was got rid of on his watch, but that was a case of Berahino sacking himself.
MON is more my style of manager, head down and get on with the job. He has a massive mess to sort out. Priority is to get rid of as many players as possible, survive in the Championship, if possible, (I doubt we will sign anyone, maybe a loan) and then start the rebuilding process in the summer.
Rebuilding is going to take at least 2 years till we have got rid of all the useless players. Along the way we are going to have to grin and bare seeing some of our best/young players being attracted away from the club. It will be a long painful process. We are not in a Millwall or Middlesbrough position where a quick fix can be achieved.
Today we just have to hope we don't follow Wigan, Blackburn, Sunderland etc. who all went from the Prem to League 1. MON will do well to avoid relegation this season with a reduced squad. Hopefully there will be enough Barnsley and Huddersfield performances to avoid the drop.
I honestly saw through him in a month NJ a total and unmitigated disaster, when his first signing was an overweight unfit slow CF for £9m he was exposed for what he was the man is a clueless chancer, the man who employed him should take the responsibility for this clusterfcuk.
why the feck are we still posting about him one of the worst manager's in our history admin close this thread
Whether he did some good or not, in his period here he made some far reaching decisions that is impacting the club now and will continue to do so.
More importantly we observed the dismantling, almost the coming apart at the seams, of a man that was generally well liked and had an interesting and promising career up until the point when he was named manager here.
What I would have liked to read was that Jones had moved on and was slowly but surely finding his way back towards his next job. It appears that he's not so far down the line yet, and may not apply until at the end of the season or even later.
No doubt a psychologist asked him to write the journal as part of a healing process. Keep wrriting but don't publish it, please.
Its an interesting article as it does confirm as many have thought that he was delusional about a) His capabilities and b) the shocking state the club got into under his watch.
This statement more than anything sums up his view through his rose tinted specs approach to the job about the Huddersfield at home game: "“We actually didn’t play too badly on the night. We were the better side. They had one chance after five minutes and one after 79 or whatever it was and that was it. We had all the play but couldn’t really make the breakthrough, couldn’t show our quality." That night was one of the most abject performaces I have ever seen from a Stoke side and I have seen us lose at Mansfield away!
The board fell for his PR and supposed reputation, I was genuinely excited at the prospect of an up and coming new coach, but it was clear from one month in he was a man promoted way beyond his pay grade and capability. Scholes (as ever) should shoulder most of the blame for allowing it to happen and not changing much sooner. I doubt Jones will ever get such a chance again, those "in the know" will recognise the deep levels of naievity and incompetence he showed in his time here.
We move onwards and upwards, a proper experienced manager now at the helm who will hopefully lead us back into a bit of normality again, albeit I expect it to be next season before I get any genuine hope.
why the feck are we still posting about him one of the worst manager's in our history admin close this thread
Maybe he was fella but it ain’t up to you (or me) what people want to talk about on here. It’s Stoke related, and it’s relevant to where we are right now.
BM
Quite right and why should there even be a need to justify a thread which is so blatantly Stoke related. Where else would you go?...Can’t think of an instance of anyone forcing me to open up a thread that I wasn’t interested in but I sympathise with anyone who has suffered such a fate.
Its an interesting article as it does confirm as many have thought that he was delusional about a) His capabilities and b) the shocking state the club got into under his watch.
This statement more than anything sums up his view through his rose tinted specs approach to the job about the Huddersfield at home game: "“We actually didn’t play too badly on the night. We were the better side. They had one chance after five minutes and one after 79 or whatever it was and that was it. We had all the play but couldn’t really make the breakthrough, couldn’t show our quality." That night was one of the most abject performaces I have ever seen from a Stoke side and I have seen us lose at Mansfield away!
The board fell for his PR and supposed reputation, I was genuinely excited at the prospect of an up and coming new coach, but it was clear from one month in he was a man promoted way beyond his pay grade and capability. Scholes (as ever) should shoulder most of the blame for allowing it to happen and not changing much sooner. I doubt Jones will ever get such a chance again, those "in the know" will recognise the deep levels of naievity and incompetence he showed in his time here.
We move onwards and upwards, a proper experienced manager now at the helm who will hopefully lead us back into a bit of normality again, albeit I expect it to be next season before I get any genuine hope.
Actually Jones was right about the Huddersfield match. We had most possession, passed well, had loads of shots, most of which Huddersfield blocked, and loads of corners. It was one of those matches where we failed to score and made a stupid error defending one of their few forays forward and we lost; it happens. I'm not trying to defend the guy, just stating facts, not opinion. MON is also suffering from our forwards failing to hit the target, and stupid defensive errors, but is getting more points with the same players.
never heard of him before he came and seemed like a cheap option to me but willing to give him a chance And support.i think he talked a good fight And that was about it
Its an interesting article as it does confirm as many have thought that he was delusional about a) His capabilities and b) the shocking state the club got into under his watch.
This statement more than anything sums up his view through his rose tinted specs approach to the job about the Huddersfield at home game: "“We actually didn’t play too badly on the night. We were the better side. They had one chance after five minutes and one after 79 or whatever it was and that was it. We had all the play but couldn’t really make the breakthrough, couldn’t show our quality." That night was one of the most abject performaces I have ever seen from a Stoke side and I have seen us lose at Mansfield away!
The board fell for his PR and supposed reputation, I was genuinely excited at the prospect of an up and coming new coach, but it was clear from one month in he was a man promoted way beyond his pay grade and capability. Scholes (as ever) should shoulder most of the blame for allowing it to happen and not changing much sooner. I doubt Jones will ever get such a chance again, those "in the know" will recognise the deep levels of naievity and incompetence he showed in his time here.
We move onwards and upwards, a proper experienced manager now at the helm who will hopefully lead us back into a bit of normality again, albeit I expect it to be next season before I get any genuine hope.
Actually Jones was right about the Huddersfield match. We had most possession, passed well, had loads of shots, most of which Huddersfield blocked, and loads of corners. It was one of those matches where we failed to score and made a stupid error defending one of their few forays forward and we lost; it happens. I'm not trying to defend the guy, just stating facts, not opinion. MON is also suffering from our forwards failing to hit the target, and stupid defensive errors, but is getting more points with the same players.
It isn't a fact that we weren't bad at home to Huddersfield Cokey, come on. That's opinion. Having sterile possession and loads of off-target shots that didn't give their keeper anything to worry about isn't the same as playing well.
It was a dreadful game between two dreadful teams that nobody deserved to win but we nevertheless contrived to lose.
I have never known a worse manager in my long life time, and hope never to come across another in the short time I have left.Unless he's an Arsenal manager!
I wanted NJ to do well. He didn’t and we were taught a valuable lesson.
It’s all well and good banging the drum and crying out for a young, fresh up and coming manager but this appointment shows just what a massive gamble that can be.
Great if it works out but all too often it doesn’t.
I have never known a worse manager in my long life time, and hope never to come across another in the short time I have left.Unless he's an Arsenal manager!
You can't have been here for Chris Kamara or Alan Ball, they truly were the lowest moments of being a Stoke fan for me.
Listened to the podcast today. Once again I thought he came across decent, and it’s clear that he really tried his best for this club, and still holds us in high regard. I wish the bloke well. The job was just too much for him at the time
I have never known a worse manager in my long life time, and hope never to come across another in the short time I have left.Unless he's an Arsenal manager!
You can't have been here for Chris Kamara or Alan Ball, they truly were the lowest moments of being a Stoke fan for me.
Low moments indeed mate but as bad as it was back then I’m strangely glad to have been there 😁
I'm fed up of people leaving the club and alluding to stuff without ever putting their finger on it. If the players were a horrible bunch of toe rags who were getting up to all sorts of mischief then name names and point to incidents instead of going all edgy and enigmatic. Lambert, Jones and some former players have all done that. If I've understood Jones' remarks properly, he's saying that he bought a bunch of duffers in the summer because he was more focused on bringing in characters than actually winning football games, which is staggering.
Having said that, I'm going to don my tin hat and resume my role as the very last nutter in the 'Jones in' club. I think he's right in some senses. We really did have some outrageous misfortune earlier in the season. We went through a spell where absolutely every single mistake that we made led to a goal. It was every bit as astonishing as that year under Pulis where we had a Rob Styles away at Gillingham referee performance in every game for the first few months of the season, culminating in the downright peculiar Martin Atkinson show away at Sunderland. When your side is already low on confidence, it doesn't take too much bad luck to completely flatten you.
For all of the mistakes that Jones did make, such as abandoning his diamond system too soon, I would still maintain that the fundamental issue was one of the players thinking 'I'm a Premier League footballer, why do I have to listen to this bloke from Luton?' It's a problem that has plagued us for years now. It was, of course, not helped by Tony Scholes telling Jones that he wasn't allowed to discipline Sam Clucas for a sending off in his preferred manner. We had one poster the other week saying that they'd spoken to Stephen Ward, who said that the players had all decided that the diamond was a waste of time and they didn't want to play it, which just about sums it all up. It's partly why I'm not yet exalting our new manager for getting results against the teams around us, as the players may yet just decide that they can't be bothered. In my opinion, every other issue with his management was second to this main problem.
At the end of the day, his work at Luton didn't just happen by accident, and I think we're yet to hear the last of him. Much like Rowett, I think that he will still do a good job in the right circumstances. I have no doubt that, given the opportunity, he'll get himself another job at a Luton-style club and go storming through the leagues again. I just hope that we get our act together and make sure that his new team don't leapfrog past us.
Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jan 14, 2020 23:05:45 GMT
I don't see the “Michael O’Neill now has a better environment and a culture than previous managers took over." and "mixed results" (for O'Neill) as that controversial. Jones was asked about the current situation so was stating fact with the latter (it goes without saying that's still way better than Jones' results). As for the former comment, Berahino, Wimmer, Imbula etc. aren't around, which helps.
Jones admits: “I got enough time. I should have got better results and it was difficult and I’ve learnt a lot from this experience."
This is true: "They [players] know certain things. It’s just when you keep getting rocked like that it does drain you because you’re half expecting things to go wrong."
It does come across that he hasn't learnt as much as he should, but there's time. Maybe that's why he didn't take the Bristol job:
“A learning curve for me. I needed to change that. Whether that was by playing more pragmatically or changing personnel, changing my approach, those are things I’m evaluating on and making sure I’m better for my next opportunity.”
He's also got it right that the connection between the players and fans needs work. Of course, that will naturally come with good results.
Edit: Just so you know, I did think it was past time to go. I couldn't see us staying up had Jones stayed.