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Post by thicknthin on Jan 1, 2020 21:01:14 GMT
2 good games wouldn’t normally make you player of the season?? Top scorer would though. He’s been very good on the whole and from the get go. McClean has had a good month and long may that continue. He has had a good month and yes long may it continue..... Let’s face it though, this last month aside he has largely been really shit and not worth the fee, the hassle or the large wage! As a wide forward in a 3 you need 10+ goals and a similar number of assists. He isn’t the player for the job he was bought in to to do. No his fault, but he is a huge reason of why we have been shit!!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 1, 2020 21:02:52 GMT
Top scorer would though. He’s been very good on the whole and from the get go. McClean has had a good month and long may that continue. He has had a good month and yes long may it continue..... Let’s face it though, this last month aside he has largely been really shit and not worth the fee, the hassle or the large wage! As a wide forward in a 3 you need 10+ goals and a similar number of assists. He isn’t the player that he was bought in to to do the job to do. No his fault, but he is a huge reason of why we have been shit!! You could be on about either of them there. I think it’s fair x 2 😂
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Post by kjpt140v on Jan 1, 2020 21:04:18 GMT
If I sing fuck the taliban/ fuck the isis is that racist? No Depends on circumstances
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Post by thicknthin on Jan 1, 2020 21:06:55 GMT
He has had a good month and yes long may it continue..... Let’s face it though, this last month aside he has largely been really shit and not worth the fee, the hassle or the large wage! As a wide forward in a 3 you need 10+ goals and a similar number of assists. He isn’t the player that he was bought in to to do the job to do. No his fault, but he is a huge reason of why we have been shit!! You could be on about either of them there. I think it’s fair x 2 😂 True, and pound for pound Ince is still worse, at least in Jimmies favour we are seeing an improvement. He is ok left of a 4
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Post by zerps on Jan 1, 2020 21:14:08 GMT
Is fuck the ira racist? I’m not condoning anything but every team sings it at him don’t they? If every team does then is it not racist? It’s not racist whoever sings it. But that’s not what I said.
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Post by bornscfcdiescfc on Jan 1, 2020 21:15:23 GMT
Are people actually implying that singing "Fuck the IRA" is racist/sectarian? Think its all bollocks and there is no need for it, I bet a fair few who sing it have no idea why they are singing it. Most of their fans were 18 or under to the side of us so agree as my 15 son doesn’t get the gist of Sunday Bloody Sunday
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 21:16:59 GMT
Is fuck the ira racist? I’m not condoning anything but every team sings it at him don’t they? It is racist in that it is stereotyping a a race. Just because it's done all the time doesnt make it right. Correct. I'm sure I've seen Stoke have clarified the issue by saying that it was sectarian abuse and that McClean is being encouraged (assuming by the club) to report it. So many things happen where it is crying out for those affected by things to report things so it can be out in the open and make a start on tackling the issue. "It's not racist - it's sectarian" "Would it be racist to chant anti-Isis songs" "It happens everywhere/It has been going on for years so why make a fuss now?" "He gives stick back so he deserves it" etc etc etc All pathetic attempts to justify and validate unacceptable behaviour which the vast majority of folk throughout the sport all agree has no place in the game. The Stoke fans who are on that side of the fence - it says far more about you than it does the person you are directing the chants at. The sooner this is rooted out and tackled the better.
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Post by zerps on Jan 1, 2020 21:18:35 GMT
It is racist in that it is stereotyping a a race. Just because it's done all the time doesnt make it right. Correct. I'm sure I've seen Stoke have clarified the issue by saying that it was sectarian abuse and that McClean is being encouraged (assuming by the club) to report it. So many things happen where it is crying out for those affected by things to report things so it can be out in the open and make a start on tackling the issue. "It's not racist - it's sectarian" "Would it be racist to chant anti-Isis songs" "It happens everywhere/It has been going on for years so why make a fuss now?" "He gives stick back so he deserves it" etc etc etc All pathetic attempts to justify and validate unacceptable behaviour which the vast majority of folk throughout the sport all agree has no place in the game. The Stoke fans who are on that side of the fence - it says far more about you than it does the person those people are directing their chants at. The sooner this is rooted out and tackled the better. Who ate all the pies is aimed at you. How does that make you feel?
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Post by zerps on Jan 1, 2020 21:19:24 GMT
It is racist in that it is stereotyping a a race. Just because it's done all the time doesnt make it right. Correct. I'm sure I've seen Stoke have clarified the issue by saying that it was sectarian abuse and that McClean is being encouraged (assuming by the club) to report it. So many things happen where it is crying out for those affected by things to report things so it can be out in the open and make a start on tackling the issue. "It's not racist - it's sectarian" "Would it be racist to chant anti-Isis songs" "It happens everywhere/It has been going on for years so why make a fuss now?" "He gives stick back so he deserves it" etc etc etc All pathetic attempts to justify and validate unacceptable behaviour which the vast majority of folk throughout the sport all agree has no place in the game. The Stoke fans who are on that side of the fence - it says far more about you than it does the person you are directing the chants at. The sooner this is rooted out and tackled the better. Also, joking about stalking someone is frankly disgraceful.
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 1, 2020 21:20:27 GMT
I see all members of Isis are from the same race, therefore it would be racist Now you're just not making sense at all and being childish. Are all terrorists fighting for or supporting Isis from the same race ?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 21:21:01 GMT
Yawn
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Post by bornscfcdiescfc on Jan 1, 2020 21:23:45 GMT
It’s a bandwagon that gets jumped on and unfortunately we at stoke have done the same in the past...
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jan 1, 2020 21:24:25 GMT
He’s getting more abuse coz he’s starting to cause teams problems, they were almost applauding him at left back.
He’s been excellent since he’s been taken outta mad Naths experiment.
One of first names on team sheet for me now, if you said that to me in September/October I’d a laughed in your face 😳
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 1, 2020 21:31:56 GMT
It is racist in that it is stereotyping a a race. Just because it's done all the time doesnt make it right. Correct. I'm sure I've seen Stoke have clarified the issue by saying that it was sectarian abuse and that McClean is being encouraged (assuming by the club) to report it. So many things happen where it is crying out for those affected by things to report things so it can be out in the open and make a start on tackling the issue. "It's not racist - it's sectarian" "Would it be racist to chant anti-Isis songs" "It happens everywhere/It has been going on for years so why make a fuss now?" "He gives stick back so he deserves it" etc etc etc All pathetic attempts to justify and validate unacceptable behaviour which the vast majority of folk throughout the sport all agree has no place in the game. The Stoke fans who are on that side of the fence - it says far more about you than it does the person you are directing the chants at. The sooner this is rooted out and tackled the better. Where do you stand on Celtic fans chanting sectarian songs at protestant's or their vile chants about the death of Lee Rigby at the hands of terrorists on British soil ? same with the anti English chants from ROI fans ? racist, sectarian or are those acceptable ?
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 1, 2020 21:33:02 GMT
Tired old mon get thesen off to bed duck.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jan 1, 2020 21:42:03 GMT
It is racist in that it is stereotyping a a race. Just because it's done all the time doesnt make it right. Correct. I'm sure I've seen Stoke have clarified the issue by saying that it was sectarian abuse and that McClean is being encouraged (assuming by the club) to report it. So many things happen where it is crying out for those affected by things to report things so it can be out in the open and make a start on tackling the issue. "It's not racist - it's sectarian""Would it be racist to chant anti-Isis songs" "It happens everywhere/It has been going on for years so why make a fuss now?" "He gives stick back so he deserves it" etc etc etc All pathetic attempts to justify and validate unacceptable behaviour which the vast majority of folk throughout the sport all agree has no place in the game.The Stoke fans who are on that side of the fence - it says far more about you than it does the person you are directing the chants at. The sooner this is rooted out and tackled the better. How? Language is important and when you call something by an improper name you trivialise it. There's no inherent attampt to justify or defend something by simply expressing that it's false to call a cat a dog. There are also very important differences between the connotations of "racism" and "sectarianism". A simple way of looking at it would be to say that it doesn't matter because it's still discrimination, but then that logic dictates that any abuse is unacceptable. If that's a genuine view then totally fine: but the subtle yet key moral difference between racism and sectarianism is that one discriminates against something that cannot be helped vs something that is a free choice. If you say religion is exempt from abuse then all choices should be exempt from abuse. This isn't a defence of anyone, this is merely to show that language matters.
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 1, 2020 21:50:06 GMT
Correct. I'm sure I've seen Stoke have clarified the issue by saying that it was sectarian abuse and that McClean is being encouraged (assuming by the club) to report it. So many things happen where it is crying out for those affected by things to report things so it can be out in the open and make a start on tackling the issue. "It's not racist - it's sectarian""Would it be racist to chant anti-Isis songs" "It happens everywhere/It has been going on for years so why make a fuss now?" "He gives stick back so he deserves it" etc etc etc All pathetic attempts to justify and validate unacceptable behaviour which the vast majority of folk throughout the sport all agree has no place in the game.The Stoke fans who are on that side of the fence - it says far more about you than it does the person you are directing the chants at. The sooner this is rooted out and tackled the better. How? Language is important and when you call something by an improper name you trivialise it. There's no inherent attampt to justify or defend something by simply expressing that it's false to call a cat a dog. There are also very important differences between the connotations of "racism" and "sectarianism". A simple way of looking at it would be to say that it doesn't matter because it's still discrimination, but then that logic dictates that any abuse is unacceptable. If that's a genuine view then totally fine: but the subtle yet key moral difference between racism and sectarianism is that one discriminates against something that cannot be helped vs something that is a free choice. If you say religion is exempt from abuse then all choices should be exempt from abuse. This isn't a defence of anyone, this is merely to show that language matters. Sir, logical, factual and bang on the money.
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 1, 2020 21:58:16 GMT
If I sing fuck the taliban/ fuck the isis is that racist? No Depends on circumstances What circumstances would that be ?
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Post by blackpoolred on Jan 1, 2020 22:07:06 GMT
It may not be defined as racist as such, but it is abuse. It is only recently that refs/clubs have started to pick up on these things, so I think this is the start of things to come. Also, I think it was quite bad in the Sheff Wed match - therefore probably reported by SCFC officials and the ref was probably made aware to keep an eye on it before the game today How do you stand on chants about where you live ie Stoke is a shit hole, or you fat bastard, bald headed bastard etc. are we going to be having warnings on those ? should we have them ? this could go on at infinitum, Mc Clean has invited a lot of this on to himself now it seems he is playing the victim. First of all, I would like to know how you know I am bald-headed and indeed a bastard Also by that logic, all SCFC female fans with a name of Delilah have reason to be offended by our anthem Is it not time though that we bring football into the 21st century, would England fans start chanting IRA songs at a rugby match. When I went to watch Stoke in Valencia, it was the Stoke fans that were singing Stoke is a shit hole we want to live here - it may have offended people who were having a beer down that lovely stretch leading to the ground, but it is not abusing or singling out a player. I am betting the stout Wycombe striker gets a bit of a ribbing for his size and probably doesn't mind it, but it would be abuse if somebody called him a fat black b^stard - there is a fairly clear line McClean is proud of where he was born and his heritage just like, more than likely, you are. Is that a sin - NO, is it stupid - YES, but we are all built the same way with our stupid little prejudices which we defend no matter what - it is part of being human
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 1, 2020 22:18:31 GMT
How do you stand on chants about where you live ie Stoke is a shit hole, or you fat bastard, bald headed bastard etc. are we going to be having warnings on those ? should we have them ? this could go on at infinitum, Mc Clean has invited a lot of this on to himself now it seems he is playing the victim. First of all, I would like to know how you know I am bald-headed and indeed a bastard Also by that logic, all SCFC female fans with a name of Delilah have reason to be offended by our anthem Is it not time though that we bring football into the 21st century, would England fans start chanting IRA songs at a rugby match. When I went to watch Stoke in Valencia, it was the Stoke fans that were singing Stoke is a shit hole we want to live here - it may have offended people who were having a beer down that lovely stretch leading to the ground, but it is not abusing or singling out a player. I am betting the stout Wycombe striker gets a bit of a ribbing for his size and probably doesn't mind it, but it would be abuse if somebody called him a fat black b^stard - there is a fairly clear line McClean is proud of where he was born and his heritage just like, more than likely, you are. Is that a sin - NO, is it stupid - YES, but we are all built the same way with our stupid little prejudices which we defend no matter what - it is part of being human Very good one flaw he is that proud of where he was born he plays for another country, I was born in England my dad came from Scottish ancestry my mum from Welsh ancestry, if I had been good enough to play international football who would I have chosen to represent by the way are you fat ?
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Post by blackpoolred on Jan 1, 2020 23:57:05 GMT
First of all, I would like to know how you know I am bald-headed and indeed a bastard Also by that logic, all SCFC female fans with a name of Delilah have reason to be offended by our anthem Is it not time though that we bring football into the 21st century, would England fans start chanting IRA songs at a rugby match. When I went to watch Stoke in Valencia, it was the Stoke fans that were singing Stoke is a shit hole we want to live here - it may have offended people who were having a beer down that lovely stretch leading to the ground, but it is not abusing or singling out a player. I am betting the stout Wycombe striker gets a bit of a ribbing for his size and probably doesn't mind it, but it would be abuse if somebody called him a fat black b^stard - there is a fairly clear line McClean is proud of where he was born and his heritage just like, more than likely, you are. Is that a sin - NO, is it stupid - YES, but we are all built the same way with our stupid little prejudices which we defend no matter what - it is part of being human Very good one flaw he is that proud of where he was born he plays for another country, I was born in England my dad came from Scottish ancestry my mum from Welsh ancestry, if I had been good enough to play international football who would I have chosen to represent by the way are you fat ? Well if you were born in England, your dad was from Scotland and your mum was Welsh then you would almost certainly play for the Republic of Ireland too I am not saying I am fat, but I set myself a goal of losing 20lbs this month - I still have 28lbs to go - apparently having a diet coke with 4 cheeseburgers does not do the trick.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 0:01:35 GMT
Yes I have read the context of this. It would be identifying a player purely because of his race and directing a chant at him about a terrorist organisation that has roots from people of that race - regardless of whether they actually identify with that religion or not. It would not be racist towards the terrorist organisation, but by the fact that you have taken somebody purely because of their race and chanted at them - yes, it would be racist to the player. So... Yes! and you can wind your neck in bit before telling others to do the same I see all members of Isis are from the same race, therefore it would be racist You're arguing semantics about abusing a bloke because he doesn't wear a poppy. Classic. 'But it's not racist because technically...' can get in the fucking bin.
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 2, 2020 6:57:58 GMT
I see all members of Isis are from the same race, therefore it would be racist You're arguing semantics about abusing a bloke because he doesn't wear a poppy. Classic. 'But it's not racist because technically...' can get in the fucking bin. "It's not racist because factually it isn't racist", you are teaching kids it's frightening.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 16:27:49 GMT
Had a look at the thread because some reprobate on the main board was accusing people of being a bit wet behind the ears.
Safe to say the only person getting upset is the Oatcake’s resident fascist (shock).
Whilst we are on the subject matter, here’s a red hot snowflake take. I don’t like singing ‘I put my dick in her hand’ anymore cause it’s a bit fucking rapey. Think we should all change it.
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Post by vokeswagen on Jan 2, 2020 19:19:02 GMT
You're arguing semantics about abusing a bloke because he doesn't wear a poppy. Classic. 'But it's not racist because technically...' can get in the fucking bin. "It's not racist because factually it isn't racist", you are teaching kids it's frightening. All due respect mate, on the subject of racism, I don't think many posters would exactly flock to you for intelligent, balanced analysis. You'd get more of that off Zippy from fucking Rainbow
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Post by Cast no shadow on Jan 2, 2020 22:53:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 10:22:25 GMT
You're arguing semantics about abusing a bloke because he doesn't wear a poppy. Classic. 'But it's not racist because technically...' can get in the fucking bin. "It's not racist because factually it isn't racist", you are teaching kids it's frightening. You're a big fan of mentioning my profession. I'm not sure why. It's abuse and it's discriminatory. Language changes over time and it tends to be that nowadays discrimination against someone for religion, race, nationality etc. is termed 'racist'. That's what the general meaning is now. You're defending the discriminatory abuse against a Stoke City player by saying 'oh but it's a different type of horrific abuse' as if that makes any difference.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jan 3, 2020 11:54:13 GMT
"It's not racist because factually it isn't racist", you are teaching kids it's frightening. You're a big fan of mentioning my profession. I'm not sure why. It's abuse and it's discriminatory. Language changes over time and it tends to be that nowadays discrimination against someone for religion, race, nationality etc. is termed 'racist'. That's what the general meaning is now. You're defending the discriminatory abuse against a Stoke City player by saying 'oh but it's a different type of horrific abuse' as if that makes any difference. Language changes over time, yes, but this is a case of almost Orwellian Newspeak with an intention to eliminate words and lump everything together: just as you have even explained in your own post. If discrimination is discrimination, and in your view, all discrimination is equal, that is a totally acceptable opinion. It doesn't, however, justify misusing the term "racism". Silly little half-xenophobic, half-sectarian, but not-really-fully-meant chants like "Fuck the IRA" being called "racism" when "discrimination" will do, not only weakens your argument, but is grossly offensive to centuries' worth of systemic oppression and genocide of millions of people. It's not "not technically racism", it's straight up not fucking racism in any guise, any way, any shape, any form. I'm not arguinh dodgy semantics, I'm presenting you with a dictionary defined, inarguable fact.
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Post by vokeswagen on Jan 3, 2020 12:46:31 GMT
You're a big fan of mentioning my profession. I'm not sure why. It's abuse and it's discriminatory. Language changes over time and it tends to be that nowadays discrimination against someone for religion, race, nationality etc. is termed 'racist'. That's what the general meaning is now. You're defending the discriminatory abuse against a Stoke City player by saying 'oh but it's a different type of horrific abuse' as if that makes any difference. Language changes over time, yes, but this is a case of almost Orwellian Newspeak with an intention to eliminate words and lump everything together: just as you have even explained in your own post. If discrimination is discrimination, and in your view, all discrimination is equal, that is a totally acceptable opinion. It doesn't, however, justify misusing the term "racism". Silly little half-xenophobic, half-sectarian, but not-really-fully-meant chants like "Fuck the IRA" being called "racism" when "discrimination" will do, not only weakens your argument, but is grossly offensive to centuries' worth of systemic oppression and genocide of millions of people. It's not "not technically racism", it's straight up not fucking racism in any guise, any way, any shape, any form. I'm not arguinh dodgy semantics, I'm presenting you with a dictionary defined, inarguable fact. It seems fairly clear that you are arguing semantics mate. In fact ironically, arguing the meaning of the word "racism" is the dictionary definition of an argument over "semantics", which is defined in the dictionary as the meaning of words Back on topic, I'm not sure why it's such an affront to you to call this behaviour racist. If people had chanted "Fuck Islamic State" at Ramadan, or "Hoorah for the potato famine" (catchy chant ) at Glenn Whelan, I'd have called it racist.
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Post by heyzeus on Jan 3, 2020 12:49:20 GMT
You're a big fan of mentioning my profession. I'm not sure why. It's abuse and it's discriminatory. Language changes over time and it tends to be that nowadays discrimination against someone for religion, race, nationality etc. is termed 'racist'. That's what the general meaning is now. You're defending the discriminatory abuse against a Stoke City player by saying 'oh but it's a different type of horrific abuse' as if that makes any difference. Language changes over time, yes, but this is a case of almost Orwellian Newspeak with an intention to eliminate words and lump everything together: just as you have even explained in your own post. If discrimination is discrimination, and in your view, all discrimination is equal, that is a totally acceptable opinion. It doesn't, however, justify misusing the term "racism". Silly little half-xenophobic, half-sectarian, but not-really-fully-meant chants like "Fuck the IRA" being called "racism" when "discrimination" will do, not only weakens your argument, but is grossly offensive to centuries' worth of systemic oppression and genocide of millions of people. It's not "not technically racism", it's straight up not fucking racism in any guise, any way, any shape, any form. I'm not arguinh dodgy semantics, I'm presenting you with a dictionary defined, inarguable fact. What if James McClean can't help where he is from (like me) or what his faith is (like me )? Also, James might get abuse for being a catholic when he doesn't actually believe (I think he does ). Did you choose to be a Stoke City fan, or are there a whole raft of social and cultural factors that have led to this, such that your agency is somewhat removed from the situation?
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