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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 19:33:03 GMT
It is if you direct it at a muslim player, yes. Are the Taliban or Isis a race or terrorists confused .com Would it be fine to direct those chants at a muslim player?
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jan 1, 2020 19:33:22 GMT
Well it's not racist, it could arguably be seen as xenophobic but I don't think it is. I also don't think it's particularly sectarian. There are tons of Irish players and tons of Catholic players who don't get the chants.
The reality is that for opposition fans, he's an easy target. He made himself an easy target, it's not inherently due to his Irishness or Catholicism that provoke that chanting, it's purely because his poppy views make him very easily identifiable and memorable.
Football fans pick on stuff all the time. It is to do with football because McClean uses his position as a footballer to air his stance. I think it's a bit sensitive to call it offensive, too.
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Post by Robo10 on Jan 1, 2020 19:36:33 GMT
Well it's not racist, it could arguably be seen as xenophobic but I don't think it is. I also don't think it's particularly sectarian. There are tons of Irish players and tons of Catholic players who don't get the chants. The reality is that for opposition fans, he's an easy target. He made himself an easy target, it's not inherently due to his Irishness or Catholicism that provoke that chanting, it's purely because his poppy views make him very easily identifiable and memorable. Football fans pick on stuff all the time. It is to do with football because McClean uses his position as a footballer to air his stance. I think it's a bit sensitive to call it offensive, too. But we dont know what was said? It could have been vile for all we know, for the ref to get involved I doubt it was the usual banter/songs One of OUR players gets abused to the point of the match being stopped, and a lot of our fans defend the opposition supporters! Unbelievable
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 19:36:36 GMT
Well it's not racist, it could arguably be seen as xenophobic but I don't think it is. I also don't think it's particularly sectarian. There are tons of Irish players and tons of Catholic players who don't get the chants. The reality is that for opposition fans, he's an easy target. He made himself an easy target, it's not inherently due to his Irishness or Catholicism that provoke that chanting, it's purely because his poppy views make him very easily identifiable and memorable. Football fans pick on stuff all the time. It is to do with football because McClean uses his position as a footballer to air his stance. I think it's a bit sensitive to call it offensive, too. How would you feel if every time you went to do something at your job you got linked with a terrorist organisation and verbally abused by people. Especially by people in the country that massacred innocent people on your streets a few decades ago?
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Post by zerps on Jan 1, 2020 19:39:13 GMT
Is fuck the ira racist? I’m not condoning anything but every team sings it at him don’t they? All he has ever done is to ask people to educate themselves as to why he has made his choice not to wear the poppy. The Northern Ireland conflict is as complicated as it gets, but there are 2 sides to every story and it is a very chequered but also fascinating history. It is quite possible given his upbringing and location/religion that anybody in his position would make the same choice There are some decent explanations and a starter for 10 on the thread below; www.quora.com/What-was-the-conflict-between-England-and-Ireland-about-How-was-it-solved I understand mate, my grandma was from Belfast. My point is it’s not racist and it’s been going on for years, so why do the media / referee decide to pick up on it today?
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 1, 2020 19:40:15 GMT
Are the Taliban or Isis a race or terrorists confused .com Would it be fine to direct those chants at a muslim player? No would it be racist ?
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Post by samba :) on Jan 1, 2020 19:40:44 GMT
That commonly known race "terrorist sympathiser"
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 1, 2020 19:53:36 GMT
Well it's not racist, it could arguably be seen as xenophobic but I don't think it is. I also don't think it's particularly sectarian. There are tons of Irish players and tons of Catholic players who don't get the chants. The reality is that for opposition fans, he's an easy target. He made himself an easy target, it's not inherently due to his Irishness or Catholicism that provoke that chanting, it's purely because his poppy views make him very easily identifiable and memorable. Football fans pick on stuff all the time. It is to do with football because McClean uses his position as a footballer to air his stance. I think it's a bit sensitive to call it offensive, too. But we dont know what was said? It could have been vile for all we know, for the ref to get involved I doubt it was the usual banter/songs One of OUR players gets abused to the point of the match being stopped, and a lot of our fans defend the opposition supporters! Unbelievable Stoke fans by awaysection reacted angrily to the abuse before any announcement was made. It was more than the usual, yet ridiculous, IRA chant
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 1, 2020 19:59:04 GMT
Well it's not racist, it could arguably be seen as xenophobic but I don't think it is. I also don't think it's particularly sectarian. There are tons of Irish players and tons of Catholic players who don't get the chants. The reality is that for opposition fans, he's an easy target. He made himself an easy target, it's not inherently due to his Irishness or Catholicism that provoke that chanting, it's purely because his poppy views make him very easily identifiable and memorable. Football fans pick on stuff all the time. It is to do with football because McClean uses his position as a footballer to air his stance. I think it's a bit sensitive to call it offensive, too. How would you feel if every time you went to do something at your job you got linked with a terrorist organisation and verbally abused by people. Especially by people in the country that massacred innocent people on your streets a few decades ago? He has chosen to carry out his job in England as a footballer, he quote's a dead IRA terrorist who plotted if was not directly involved in murdering British Soldiers and civilians many of them English, if he doesn't want sectarian abuse do you think he has gone the right way about it ?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 20:01:28 GMT
No, not even close. Last time I checked the IRA weren't a race or a religion but dont tell the precious brigade on here that, they love rallying against common sense. At a push you could say it's unkind to Catholicism and/or the pope, It's only really the former of those that apply here. Again not racist. It's been done to death on here over JM sharing quotes from XYZ so I won't get into it. 'they're not a race or religion so it's absolutely fine to publicly connect a professional footballer with a terrorist organisation and abuse him as if he was a part of it' It's discriminatory abuse. That quote came out of thin air didn't it, I certainly didn't write it. Discriminatory abuse being different to discriminating on the usual amount of abuse players get for being shit? or having shit hair? You have to discriminate to target those things too. All abuse is discriminatory. I didn't want to wade into the quotes he shared, but when you take all of it into account, it's not abuse towards catholicism. I'm sure a few will give dogs abuse to catholic players but not many. No, It's a different level of abuse because of all his actions combined. I think if you share such quotes and make public statements about poppies (etc etc to boredom) then you open yourself up to it. Playing the victim when you hear an anti IRA song is just a bit silly because it's not JUST to do with Catholicism is it - It's the rest on top...
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Jan 1, 2020 20:01:46 GMT
I would be surprised if the usual "Fuck the IRA" chant was what triggered the stoppage.
I wouldn't class this as Racist or even sectarian. Poor taste? maybe. But so is chanting about someone's oversized teeth or eyes. I hate the word 'banter' but there is dark humour to certain chants that is more commonly accepted at football.
More to the point I dont actually think the 'Fuck the IRA' chant particularly bothers McClean from his reaction or lack of towards it.
In his outspoken Instagram post last year it was more the use of the word Fenian that I found more as a spark so that would lead me to believe it was something closer to religion that has triggered today's announcement more so than that of a chant used to poke fun at a previous terrorist organisation.
More importantly though McClean is winning his own fans over, me included and long may it continue.
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Post by boothenboys1863 on Jan 1, 2020 20:02:44 GMT
I never heard anything over the tannoy?
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Post by blackpoolred on Jan 1, 2020 20:05:25 GMT
All he has ever done is to ask people to educate themselves as to why he has made his choice not to wear the poppy. The Northern Ireland conflict is as complicated as it gets, but there are 2 sides to every story and it is a very chequered but also fascinating history. It is quite possible given his upbringing and location/religion that anybody in his position would make the same choice There are some decent explanations and a starter for 10 on the thread below; www.quora.com/What-was-the-conflict-between-England-and-Ireland-about-How-was-it-solved I understand mate, my grandma was from Belfast. My point is it’s not racist and it’s been going on for years, so why do the media / referee decide to pick up on it today? It may not be defined as racist as such, but it is abuse. It is only recently that refs/clubs have started to pick up on these things, so I think this is the start of things to come. Also, I think it was quite bad in the Sheff Wed match - therefore probably reported by SCFC officials and the ref was probably made aware to keep an eye on it before the game today
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 20:14:37 GMT
Would it be fine to direct those chants at a muslim player? No would it be racist ? Yes!
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Post by boothenconvert on Jan 1, 2020 20:16:00 GMT
Personally, I’ve never had a problem with James McClean as he is probably one of the few who gives a shit about the club performances. The last few games, he has been amazing, putting in a shift and trying to make a difference. Whatever his political views, let him be. I might not agree with his non poppy wearing, but I will always applaud him for his efforts on the pitch. Seeing his reaction after that third goal going in by running to the fans, shows he cares.
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 1, 2020 20:18:07 GMT
I understand mate, my grandma was from Belfast. My point is it’s not racist and it’s been going on for years, so why do the media / referee decide to pick up on it today? It may not be defined as racist as such, but it is abuse. It is only recently that refs/clubs have started to pick up on these things, so I think this is the start of things to come. Also, I think it was quite bad in the Sheff Wed match - therefore probably reported by SCFC officials and the ref was probably made aware to keep an eye on it before the game today How do you stand on chants about where you live ie Stoke is a shit hole, or you fat bastard, bald headed bastard etc. are we going to be having warnings on those ? should we have them ? this could go on at infinitum, Mc Clean has invited a lot of this on to himself now it seems he is playing the victim.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 20:22:56 GMT
It may not be defined as racist as such, but it is abuse. It is only recently that refs/clubs have started to pick up on these things, so I think this is the start of things to come. Also, I think it was quite bad in the Sheff Wed match - therefore probably reported by SCFC officials and the ref was probably made aware to keep an eye on it before the game today How do you stand on chants about where you live ie Stoke is a shit hole, or you fat bastard, bald headed bastard etc. are we going to be having warnings on those ? should we have them ? this could go on at infinitum, Mc Clean has invited a lot of this on to himself now it seems he is playing the victim. Tell me, what has he done to invite it on himself, not wear a poppy? Give me a break.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jan 1, 2020 20:35:20 GMT
Well it's not racist, it could arguably be seen as xenophobic but I don't think it is. I also don't think it's particularly sectarian. There are tons of Irish players and tons of Catholic players who don't get the chants. The reality is that for opposition fans, he's an easy target. He made himself an easy target, it's not inherently due to his Irishness or Catholicism that provoke that chanting, it's purely because his poppy views make him very easily identifiable and memorable. Football fans pick on stuff all the time. It is to do with football because McClean uses his position as a footballer to air his stance. I think it's a bit sensitive to call it offensive, too. But we dont know what was said? It could have been vile for all we know, for the ref to get involved I doubt it was the usual banter/songs One of OUR players gets abused to the point of the match being stopped, and a lot of our fans defend the opposition supporters! Unbelievable I don't see where I've defended them? Merely pointed out the reasons for the chants aren't racist. Although you are right that we don't know what any individual might have shouted.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jan 1, 2020 20:37:22 GMT
Well it's not racist, it could arguably be seen as xenophobic but I don't think it is. I also don't think it's particularly sectarian. There are tons of Irish players and tons of Catholic players who don't get the chants. The reality is that for opposition fans, he's an easy target. He made himself an easy target, it's not inherently due to his Irishness or Catholicism that provoke that chanting, it's purely because his poppy views make him very easily identifiable and memorable. Football fans pick on stuff all the time. It is to do with football because McClean uses his position as a footballer to air his stance. I think it's a bit sensitive to call it offensive, too. How would you feel if every time you went to do something at your job you got linked with a terrorist organisation and verbally abused by people. Especially by people in the country that massacred innocent people on your streets a few decades ago? Well I don't use my job to share quotes from convicted terrorists so that situation wouldn't occur. If I did use my job to do that and found myself, remarkably, still employed, then I wouldn't have any grounds to argue against the rights of people to berate me for it.
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 1, 2020 20:38:14 GMT
Have you bothered to read the context of this ? please read what lilfraise had posted earlier in the thread then wind your neck in a bit.
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 1, 2020 20:40:03 GMT
How do you stand on chants about where you live ie Stoke is a shit hole, or you fat bastard, bald headed bastard etc. are we going to be having warnings on those ? should we have them ? this could go on at infinitum, Mc Clean has invited a lot of this on to himself now it seems he is playing the victim. Tell me, what has he done to invite it on himself, not wear a poppy? Give me a break. I take it you haven't seen or read the Bobby Sands quotation from a certain James Mc Clean.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 20:42:02 GMT
Have you bothered to read the context of this ? please read what lilfraise had posted earlier in the thread then wind your neck in a bit. Yes I have read the context of this. It would be identifying a player purely because of his race and directing a chant at him about a terrorist organisation that has roots from people of that race - regardless of whether they actually identify with that religion or not. It would not be racist towards the terrorist organisation, but by the fact that you have taken somebody purely because of their race and chanted at them - yes, it would be racist to the player. So... Yes! and you can wind your neck in bit before telling others to do the same. Seriously...you ask a question and then write that silly bollocks when somebody answers in a way you dont like.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 1, 2020 20:42:33 GMT
It may not be defined as racist as such, but it is abuse. It is only recently that refs/clubs have started to pick up on these things, so I think this is the start of things to come. Also, I think it was quite bad in the Sheff Wed match - therefore probably reported by SCFC officials and the ref was probably made aware to keep an eye on it before the game today How do you stand on chants about where you live ie Stoke is a shit hole, or you fat bastard, bald headed bastard etc. are we going to be having warnings on those ? should we have them ? this could go on at infinitum, Mc Clean has invited a lot of this on to himself now it seems he is playing the victim. You mean he's had friends and family killed and maimed by the British Armed Forces and has the audacity to speak out about it by refusing to wear a poppy and not join in the uncritical celebration of British state sponsored violence against a minority community? The British Army have done some absolutely heroic deeds for which we should all be eternally grateful. However uncritical acceptance of your nations actions has a name. It's called Fascism.
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Post by adi on Jan 1, 2020 20:44:24 GMT
Is fuck the ira racist? I’m not condoning anything but every team sings it at him don’t they? If every team does then is it not racist?
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 1, 2020 20:44:28 GMT
Is fuck the ira racist? I’m not condoning anything but every team sings it at him don’t they? No, not even close. Last time I checked the IRA weren't a race or a religion but dont tell the precious brigade on here that, they love rallying against common sense. At a push you could say it's unkind to Catholicism and/or the pope, It's only really the former of those that apply here. Again not racist. It's been done to death on here over JM sharing quotes from XYZ so I won't get into it. At a push it’s unkind to the Pope? F**k the Pope and the IRA. I’d hate to hear what you consider very unkind!
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 1, 2020 20:46:19 GMT
Have you bothered to read the context of this ? please read what lilfraise had posted earlier in the thread then wind your neck in a bit. Yes I have read the context of this. It would be identifying a player purely because of his race and directing a chant at him about a terrorist organisation that has roots from people of that race - regardless of whether they actually identify with that religion or not. It would not be racist towards the terrorist organisation, but by the fact that you have taken somebody purely because of their race and chanted at them - yes, it would be racist to the player. So... Yes! and you can wind your neck in bit before telling others to do the same I see all members of Isis are from the same race, therefore it would be racist
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Post by thicknthin on Jan 1, 2020 20:47:31 GMT
Probably player of the season so far isn't he? Clucas imo as he’s been on it for most of the season. McClean is second though. 2 good games wouldn’t normally make you player of the season??
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 1, 2020 20:49:39 GMT
Clucas imo as he’s been on it for most of the season. McClean is second though. 2 good games wouldn’t normally make you player of the season?? Top scorer would though. He’s been very good on the whole and from the get go. McClean has had a good month and long may that continue.
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Post by kjpt140v on Jan 1, 2020 20:54:37 GMT
Is fuck the ira racist? I’m not condoning anything but every team sings it at him don’t they? It is racist in that it is stereotyping a a race. Just because it's done all the time doesnt make it right.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 20:56:15 GMT
Yes I have read the context of this. It would be identifying a player purely because of his race and directing a chant at him about a terrorist organisation that has roots from people of that race - regardless of whether they actually identify with that religion or not. It would not be racist towards the terrorist organisation, but by the fact that you have taken somebody purely because of their race and chanted at them - yes, it would be racist to the player. So... Yes! and you can wind your neck in bit before telling others to do the same I see all members of Isis are from the same race, therefore it would be racist Now you're just not making sense at all and being childish.
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