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Jimmy.
Jan 13, 2020 23:26:42 GMT
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 13, 2020 23:26:42 GMT
I would imagine that every team we play will be charged at this rate and I’d imagine Millwall will be the latest team after last Saturday It's an interesting one. I don't know exactly what was chanted at Barnsley, which has led to the FA charge, and it will be interesting to see if an FA Commission finds it in breach of the relevant FA rule which outlaws ‘abusive and/or insulting’ language referring to ‘nationality and/or religion and/or beliefs’. If the chanting was just a reference to the IRA it's a moot point whether it breaches the regulation given that the IRA is an organisation, not a religion, nationality or belief. That is also why reference to it alone is unlikely to lead to criminal charges. Most ground regulations explicitly prohibit discriminatory language and it becomes a matter of interpretation whether these chants are in breach of such regulations, the enforcement of which lies with the home club, not the FA or the courts.
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Jimmy.
Jan 13, 2020 23:37:32 GMT
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 13, 2020 23:37:32 GMT
There was incidentally another (very popular) Stoke player who refused to stand for the national anthem but this went completely under the radar. Missed that. Who was it? Actually, Rawli, perhaps I shouldn't have posted that, because it was something I witnessed at Wembley as his companions tried to pull him to his feet to avoid a scene, which hasn't as far as I know entered the public domain and it isn't really my place to do so. Sorry !
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Jimmy.
Jan 14, 2020 0:01:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by rawli on Jan 14, 2020 0:01:57 GMT
Actually, Rawli, perhaps I shouldn't have posted that, because it was something I witnessed at Wembley as his companions tried to pull him to his feet to avoid a scene, which hasn't as far as I know entered the public domain and it isn't really my place to do so. Sorry ! Ok. Respect that.
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Jimmy.
Jan 14, 2020 1:09:41 GMT
Post by spitthedog on Jan 14, 2020 1:09:41 GMT
He turned his back on the National Anthem at a football match.He brought his politics into football, you can't have it both ways. H Not condoning anything or trying to take sides, but couldn't you argue that playing national anthems before kick off is already bringing politics into football? Yes agreed.
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Jimmy.
Jan 14, 2020 6:21:08 GMT
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Post by RAF on Jan 14, 2020 6:21:08 GMT
He turned his back on the National Anthem at a football match.He brought his politics into football, you can't have it both ways. H Actually, he didn't. He faced forward in the same direction looking at the main stand as the line of players had done since they entered the playing area. He didn't turn 90 degrees as the others did when the anthems was played, but he didn't turn his back on anyone or anything. This was a friendly club match in the USA. Why on earth was the national anthem being played anyway in such a fixture ? WBA were not England. There was incidentally another (very popular) Stoke player who refused to stand for the national anthem but this went completely under the radar. If you quote someone you are indicating that you agree with that quote, not that you agree with everything else that person has ever said or done. Chanting at McLean about the IRA has nothing to do with football; fails to acknowledge that following the good Friday agreement 20+ years ago the provisional IRA and their counterparts on the unionist side have thankfully not pursued a violent solution or that throughout Irish history there have been different branches of the IRA with very different views on violence. I don't know exactly what has happened to this thread, but the person I quoted is not the one that is showing. It's happened a few times now. My view is he has shown disrespect to an anthem of a country he is happy to be paid handsomely in whilst showing his disdain for it. The bloke for me is a hypocrite of the highest order. I have always said there is no room in football for sectarian chants or songs, if you ever care to go back in my post history you will find this to be true years and years before McClean came on the scene. Quoting Bobby Sands was a a fucking ridiculous thing to do, so even though I don't condone it you can see why he gets special attention. H
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 14, 2020 7:04:30 GMT
Actually, he didn't. He faced forward in the same direction looking at the main stand as the line of players had done since they entered the playing area. He didn't turn 90 degrees as the others did when the anthems was played, but he didn't turn his back on anyone or anything. This was a friendly club match in the USA. Why on earth was the national anthem being played anyway in such a fixture ? WBA were not England. There was incidentally another (very popular) Stoke player who refused to stand for the national anthem but this went completely under the radar. If you quote someone you are indicating that you agree with that quote, not that you agree with everything else that person has ever said or done. Chanting at McLean about the IRA has nothing to do with football; fails to acknowledge that following the good Friday agreement 20+ years ago the provisional IRA and their counterparts on the unionist side have thankfully not pursued a violent solution or that throughout Irish history there have been different branches of the IRA with very different views on violence. I don't know exactly what has happened to this thread, but the person I quoted is not the one that is showing. It's happened a few times now. My view is he has shown disrespect to an anthem of a country he is happy to be paid handsomely in whilst showing his disdain for it. The bloke for me is a hypocrite of the highest order. I have always said there is no room in football for sectarian chants or songs, if you ever care to go back in my post history you will find this to be true years and years before McClean came on the scene. Quoting Bobby Sands was a a fucking ridiculous thing to do, so even though I don't condone it you can see why he gets special attention. H Staying true to his beliefs and making a discreet, personal stand when he’s blindsided by a ridiculous decision to play an anthem at a meaningless friendly. You could argue that’s the opposite to hypocrisy.
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Jimmy.
Jan 14, 2020 8:05:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by RAF on Jan 14, 2020 8:05:48 GMT
I don't know exactly what has happened to this thread, but the person I quoted is not the one that is showing. It's happened a few times now. My view is he has shown disrespect to an anthem of a country he is happy to be paid handsomely in whilst showing his disdain for it. The bloke for me is a hypocrite of the highest order. I have always said there is no room in football for sectarian chants or songs, if you ever care to go back in my post history you will find this to be true years and years before McClean came on the scene. Quoting Bobby Sands was a a fucking ridiculous thing to do, so even though I don't condone it you can see why he gets special attention. H Staying true to his beliefs and making a discreet, personal stand when he’s blindsided by a ridiculous decision to play an anthem at a meaningless friendly. You could argue that’s the opposite to hypocrisy. If he stayed true to his beliefs he wouldn't be taking the English coin and living in England. It's his right to do so but but hypocritical none the less. H
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 14, 2020 8:29:39 GMT
Staying true to his beliefs and making a discreet, personal stand when he’s blindsided by a ridiculous decision to play an anthem at a meaningless friendly. You could argue that’s the opposite to hypocrisy. If he stayed true to his beliefs he wouldn't be taking the English coin and living in England. It's his right to do so but but hypocritical none the less. H He's Northern Irish, which the last time I looked was part of the UK and he's taking the UK coin. He's as entitled to the UK coin as you or I. At what point did being a legitimate UK citizen involve unilateral support for a particular political view? We're not a fascist dictatorship. Yet. I actually agree with many of his views - in particular the state sponsored murder of Northern Irish Catholics. And I'm English and take the English coin. Does that make me an hypocrite or a traitor? Or just another UK citizen with an unpopular political opinion?
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Jimmy.
Jan 14, 2020 8:33:11 GMT
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Post by Waggy on Jan 14, 2020 8:33:11 GMT
I must say i think this quoting Sands, turning back on the national anthem etc is at the end of the day a very stupid thing to do plying your trade in the country the IRA despise. It's obvious people will target you. Ok he plays for Stoke and gives it his all but you can see why he gets targeted and a lot bought on by himself. I can't recall another catholic Northern Ireland player having such abuse. Also i’m from England and was not in the city that British soldiers opened fire on it’s people, so don't know what is like but having lived in England and seen the devastation the IRA have caused here and killing of innocent victims ( and over in NI from both sides) i can see the subject is still raw. Having read about bloody Sunday in Derry where McClean is from and quotes from McClean eg says Martin Mcguinnes is his ‘hero’ , yet Martin Mcguiness admitted he opened fire on the British soldiers that day and had the support of MP Bernadette Devlin who was present. The British soldiers were also to blame according to this book as they killed innocent people.BUT i have never been in a situation like that on either side. End of the day like it or not Jimmy has made a rod for his own back on a few occasions but for a lot of Stoke fans ( maybe those who are not old enough to see on the news the ‘ troubles’ ) he plays with his heart for the club and we need to move on from the past. I would love football to draw a line under this but i’m afraid it will carry on until he retires or leaves English football. God help him if he went to Celtic as the Rangers fans will give five times the abuse he gets here.
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Jimmy.
Jan 14, 2020 8:56:36 GMT
via mobile
RAF likes this
Post by rawli on Jan 14, 2020 8:56:36 GMT
Actually, he didn't. He faced forward in the same direction looking at the main stand as the line of players had done since they entered the playing area. He didn't turn 90 degrees as the others did when the anthems was played, but he didn't turn his back on anyone or anything. This was a friendly club match in the USA. Why on earth was the national anthem being played anyway in such a fixture ? WBA were not England. There was incidentally another (very popular) Stoke player who refused to stand for the national anthem but this went completely under the radar. If you quote someone you are indicating that you agree with that quote, not that you agree with everything else that person has ever said or done. Chanting at McLean about the IRA has nothing to do with football; fails to acknowledge that following the good Friday agreement 20+ years ago the provisional IRA and their counterparts on the unionist side have thankfully not pursued a violent solution or that throughout Irish history there have been different branches of the IRA with very different views on violence. I don't know exactly what has happened to this thread, but the person I quoted is not the one that is showing. It's happened a few times now. My view is he has shown disrespect to an anthem of a country he is happy to be paid handsomely in whilst showing his disdain for it. The bloke for me is a hypocrite of the highest order. I have always said there is no room in football for sectarian chants or songs, if you ever care to go back in my post history you will find this to be true years and years before McClean came on the scene. Quoting Bobby Sands was a a fucking ridiculous thing to do, so even though I don't condone it you can see why he gets special attention. H I know plenty of people who've worked in the middle east and taken the coin who don't believe in the emancipation of women or gays. Probably makes them hypocrites too. Difference to here is if they don't tow the party line they'd be in real trouble.
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Post by lifelong on Jan 14, 2020 9:26:42 GMT
"james mclaen he's one of own"!
and I' d be happy to sing it at the next game
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Post by lifelong on Jan 14, 2020 9:27:25 GMT
sorry "he's one of our own"
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Jimmy.
Jan 14, 2020 9:37:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by Cast no shadow on Jan 14, 2020 9:37:57 GMT
sorry "he's one of our own" Stoke isn't in Londonderry.
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Post by RAF on Jan 14, 2020 9:45:13 GMT
If he stayed true to his beliefs he wouldn't be taking the English coin and living in England. It's his right to do so but but hypocritical none the less. H He's Northern Irish, which the last time I looked was part of the UK and he's taking the UK coin. He's as entitled to the UK coin as you or I. At what point did being a legitimate UK citizen involve unilateral support for a particular political view? We're not a fascist dictatorship. Yet. I actually agree with many of his views - in particular the state sponsored murder of Northern Irish Catholics. And I'm English and take the English coin. Does that make me an hypocrite or a traitor? Or just another UK citizen with an unpopular political opinion? What part of 'it's his right to do so' did you not understand? I just happen to think his disdain for the UK establishment is well documented. If he is such a proud Northern Ireland man why doesn't he play football for them? It's political no doubt. Now it's amazing how many people state there is no room for politics in football unless it's of course defending the views of one of our footballers who thinks it's ok quoting Bobby Sands. Do I think you are a traitor? Why the fuck would you care? You quite clearly don't respect my opinion but expect me to respect McCleans and your own. H
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Jimmy.
Jan 14, 2020 16:13:36 GMT
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Post by Gifton on Jan 14, 2020 16:13:36 GMT
He turned his back on the National Anthem at a football match.He brought his politics into football, you can't have it both ways. H Actually, he didn't. He faced forward in the same direction looking at the main stand as the line of players had done since they entered the playing area. He didn't turn 90 degrees as the others did when the anthems was played, but he didn't turn his back on anyone or anything. This was a friendly club match in the USA. Why on earth was the national anthem being played anyway in such a fixture ? WBA were not England. There was incidentally another (very popular) Stoke player who refused to stand for the national anthem but this went completely under the radar. If you quote someone you are indicating that you agree with that quote, not that you agree with everything else that person has ever said or done. Chanting at McLean about the IRA has nothing to do with football; fails to acknowledge that following the good Friday agreement 20+ years ago the provisional IRA and their counterparts on the unionist side have thankfully not pursued a violent solution or that throughout Irish history there have been different branches of the IRA with very different views on violence. Here here Malcolm.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 14, 2020 16:53:33 GMT
sorry "he's one of our own" Stoke isn't in Londonderry. It isn’t in Derry either.
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Jimmy.
Jan 14, 2020 16:55:16 GMT
via mobile
Post by foxysgloves on Jan 14, 2020 16:55:16 GMT
He's Northern Irish, which the last time I looked was part of the UK and he's taking the UK coin. He's as entitled to the UK coin as you or I. At what point did being a legitimate UK citizen involve unilateral support for a particular political view? We're not a fascist dictatorship. Yet. I actually agree with many of his views - in particular the state sponsored murder of Northern Irish Catholics. And I'm English and take the English coin. Does that make me an hypocrite or a traitor? Or just another UK citizen with an unpopular political opinion? What part of 'it's his right to do so' did you not understand? I just happen to think his disdain for the UK establishment is well documented. If he is such a proud Northern Ireland man why doesn't he play football for them? It's political no doubt. Now it's amazing how many people state there is no room for politics in football unless it's of course defending the views of one of our footballers who thinks it's ok quoting Bobby Sands. Do I think you are a traitor? Why the fuck would you care? You quite clearly don't respect my opinion but expect me to respect McCleans and your own. H I think he’s a proud Irish man as opposed to a proud Northern Irish man. That’s why he declared for the Republic not NI. Unless I’m mistaken which is highly possible.
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Jimmy.
Jan 14, 2020 17:33:17 GMT
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 14, 2020 17:33:17 GMT
What part of 'it's his right to do so' did you not understand? I just happen to think his disdain for the UK establishment is well documented. If he is such a proud Northern Ireland man why doesn't he play football for them? It's political no doubt. Now it's amazing how many people state there is no room for politics in football unless it's of course defending the views of one of our footballers who thinks it's ok quoting Bobby Sands. Do I think you are a traitor? Why the fuck would you care? You quite clearly don't respect my opinion but expect me to respect McCleans and your own. H I think he’s a proud Irish man as opposed to a proud Northern Irish man. That’s why he declared for the Republic not NI. Unless I’m mistaken which is highly possible. I'm sure you are not mistaken. Under the Good Friday agreement citizens born in NI can opt for British citizenship; Irish citizenship or both. Given that he believes in a united Ireland it's no surprise that he opted to play for Ireland, neither is it anything to criticise him for. It's his choice. Marc Wilson did the same, as have others.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 14, 2020 19:21:08 GMT
I think he’s a proud Irish man as opposed to a proud Northern Irish man. That’s why he declared for the Republic not NI. Unless I’m mistaken which is highly possible. I'm sure you are not mistaken. Under the Good Friday agreement citizens born in NI can opt for British citizenship; Irish citizenship or both. Given that he believes in a united Ireland it's no surprise that he opted to play for Ireland, neither is it anything to criticise him for. It's his choice. Marc Wilson did the same, as have others. Absolutely. If only our ancestors had thought a little more about the long term impacts of their quest to claim ownership of every piece of land they could find. Then again they were probably too busy counting their profits to think about anything else.
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Jimmy.
Jan 14, 2020 19:33:50 GMT
Post by richardparker on Jan 14, 2020 19:33:50 GMT
Some people like a good belt out of the National Anthem ... others don't. I'd include myself in the latter grouping and that has always been the case. (It's possibly the worse song ever and means absolutely nothing at all to me). I'm kind of English (born here to mixed parentage) ... but not particularly proud of my English heritage anymore.
I still work and earn a living here. Does that make me a hypocrite?
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Post by RAF on Jan 14, 2020 19:36:02 GMT
I think he’s a proud Irish man as opposed to a proud Northern Irish man. That’s why he declared for the Republic not NI. Unless I’m mistaken which is highly possible. I'm sure you are not mistaken. Under the Good Friday agreement citizens born in NI can opt for British citizenship; Irish citizenship or both. Given that he believes in a united Ireland it's no surprise that he opted to play for Ireland, neither is it anything to criticise him for. It's his choice. Marc Wilson did the same, as have others. He played for Northern Ireland and so did Marc Wilson, just not the senior team. Maybe he was using them as a stepping stone like he accused Declan Rice of doing? Sounds like a bit more hypocrisy to me. H
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Post by RAF on Jan 14, 2020 20:07:44 GMT
Some people like a good belt out of the National Anthem ... others don't. I'd include myself in the latter grouping and that has always been the case. (It's possibly the worse song ever and means absolutely nothing at all to me). I'm kind of English (born here to mixed parentage) ... but not particularly proud of my English heritage anymore. I still work and earn a living here. Does that make me a hypocrite? The stock answer will always be ' It is your right 'until the person you are discussing this with doesn't believe you have a right to an alternate view but demands respect for theirs. I respect that people think differently than me, my opinion just differs as is 'My Right'. H
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 14, 2020 20:13:37 GMT
I'm sure you are not mistaken. Under the Good Friday agreement citizens born in NI can opt for British citizenship; Irish citizenship or both. Given that he believes in a united Ireland it's no surprise that he opted to play for Ireland, neither is it anything to criticise him for. It's his choice. Marc Wilson did the same, as have others. He played for Northern Ireland and so did Marc Wilson, just not the senior team. Maybe he was using them as a stepping stone like he accused Declan Rice of doing? Sounds like a bit more hypocrisy to me. H It's just opting for an opportunity which is available to you and which you prefer because you think it is consistent with your wider personal identity. As foxygloves said above, I think hypocrisy, which is pretending to hold views which you don't, is one thing you can't reasonably accuse him of. Quite the reverse. He makes no secret of his beliefs and it is precisely that which attracts abuse.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 14, 2020 20:41:34 GMT
I must say i think this quoting Sands, turning back on the national anthem etc is at the end of the day a very stupid thing to do plying your trade in the country the IRA despise. It's obvious people will target you. Ok he plays for Stoke and gives it his all but you can see why he gets targeted and a lot bought on by himself. I can't recall another catholic Northern Ireland player having such abuse. Also i’m from England and was not in the city that British soldiers opened fire on it’s people, so don't know what is like but having lived in England and seen the devastation the IRA have caused here and killing of innocent victims ( and over in NI from both sides) i can see the subject is still raw. Having read about bloody Sunday in Derry where McClean is from and quotes from McClean eg says Martin Mcguinnes is his ‘hero’ , yet Martin Mcguiness admitted he opened fire on the British soldiers that day and had the support of MP Bernadette Devlin who was present. The British soldiers were also to blame according to this book as they killed innocent people.BUT i have never been in a situation like that on either side. End of the day like it or not Jimmy has made a rod for his own back on a few occasions but for a lot of Stoke fans ( maybe those who are not old enough to see on the news the ‘ troubles’ ) he plays with his heart for the club and we need to move on from the past. I would love football to draw a line under this but i’m afraid it will carry on until he retires or leaves English football. God help him if he went to Celtic as the Rangers fans will give five times the abuse he gets here. The irony of all this from a Stoke fans perspective is that there is no evidence that the abuse has a negative effect on his performance, if anything the reverse. On that basis perhaps we should encourage opposing fans to carry on !! I don't think that, but the abuse, if it has any effect at all, does appear to be counter-productive. He certainly appears tough enough to live with it, which is perhaps not surprising when you read about his childhood. The Sands quote was quite relevant as a response to the abuse he had just received. That certainly doesn't mean that he (or me) agree with everything Bobby Sands MP ( the fact that he was elected as an MP from prison was a very significant political factor) did or said. Far from it. But the actions of McLean and those Irish people who share his views, Sands, McGuiness and everyone else who was involved in those terrible conflicts, some of whom did indeed do some awful things, have to be assessed in the context of the history of Ireland, and the actions of the British there, including bloody Sunday for which the British Government have formally apologised. Neither does it help to exaggerate or misrepresent actions (like saying he turned his back on the national anthem). Thankfully we have now had two decades of near peace following the Good Friday agreement and only yesterday we had the good news of the restoration of devolved Government in NI under the power sharing agreement. You are right that we should move on from the past, which is why chanting about the IRA is irrelevant in a football context.
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Jimmy.
Jan 14, 2020 20:44:29 GMT
via mobile
Post by madnellie on Jan 14, 2020 20:44:29 GMT
I'm sure you are not mistaken. Under the Good Friday agreement citizens born in NI can opt for British citizenship; Irish citizenship or both. Given that he believes in a united Ireland it's no surprise that he opted to play for Ireland, neither is it anything to criticise him for. It's his choice. Marc Wilson did the same, as have others. He played for Northern Ireland and so did Marc Wilson, just not the senior team. Maybe he was using them as a stepping stone like he accused Declan Rice of doing? Sounds like a bit more hypocrisy to me. H I don't think either had a choice did they? I might be wrong but I believe the rules only changed about ten years or so ago to allow those born in N.I. to play for the Republic.
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Jimmy.
Jan 14, 2020 21:01:20 GMT
via mobile
Post by foxysgloves on Jan 14, 2020 21:01:20 GMT
I must say i think this quoting Sands, turning back on the national anthem etc is at the end of the day a very stupid thing to do plying your trade in the country the IRA despise. It's obvious people will target you. Ok he plays for Stoke and gives it his all but you can see why he gets targeted and a lot bought on by himself. I can't recall another catholic Northern Ireland player having such abuse. Also i’m from England and was not in the city that British soldiers opened fire on it’s people, so don't know what is like but having lived in England and seen the devastation the IRA have caused here and killing of innocent victims ( and over in NI from both sides) i can see the subject is still raw. Having read about bloody Sunday in Derry where McClean is from and quotes from McClean eg says Martin Mcguinnes is his ‘hero’ , yet Martin Mcguiness admitted he opened fire on the British soldiers that day and had the support of MP Bernadette Devlin who was present. The British soldiers were also to blame according to this book as they killed innocent people.BUT i have never been in a situation like that on either side. End of the day like it or not Jimmy has made a rod for his own back on a few occasions but for a lot of Stoke fans ( maybe those who are not old enough to see on the news the ‘ troubles’ ) he plays with his heart for the club and we need to move on from the past. I would love football to draw a line under this but i’m afraid it will carry on until he retires or leaves English football. God help him if he went to Celtic as the Rangers fans will give five times the abuse he gets here. The irony of all this from a Stoke fans perspective is that there is no evidence that the abuse has a negative effect on his performance, if anything the reverse. On that basis perhaps we should encourage opposing fans to carry on !! I don't think that, but the abuse, if it has any effect at all, does appear to be counter-productive. He certainly appears tough enough to live with it, which is perhaps not surprising when you read about his childhood. The Sands quote was quite relevant as a response to the abuse he had just received. That certainly doesn't mean that he (or me) agree with everything Bobby Sands MP ( the fact that he was elected as an MP from prison was a very significant political factor) did or said. Far from it. But the actions of McLean and those Irish people who share his views, Sands, McGuiness and everyone else who was involved in those terrible conflicts, some of whom did indeed do some awful things, have to be assessed in the context of the history of Ireland, and the actions of the British there, including bloody Sunday for which the British Government have formally apologised. Neither does it help to exaggerate or misrepresent actions (like saying he turned his back on the national anthem). Thankfully we have now had two decades of near peace following the Good Friday agreement and only yesterday we had the good news of the restoration of devolved Government in NI under the power sharing agreement. You are right that we should move on the past, which is why chanting about the IRA is irrelevant in a football context. Says what I’d like to say much more clearly than I ever could.
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Jimmy.
Jan 15, 2020 4:00:45 GMT
via mobile
Post by RAF on Jan 15, 2020 4:00:45 GMT
He played for Northern Ireland and so did Marc Wilson, just not the senior team. Maybe he was using them as a stepping stone like he accused Declan Rice of doing? Sounds like a bit more hypocrisy to me. H It's just opting for an opportunity which is available to you and which you prefer because you think it is consistent with your wider personal identity. As foxygloves said above, I think hypocrisy, which is pretending to hold views which you don't, is one thing you can't reasonably accuse him of. Quite the reverse. He makes no secret of his beliefs and it is precisely that which attracts abuse. Which is exactly what Declan Rice has done and has been castigated by McClean. He's a hypocrite in my opinion.I respect your view just politely decline to agree with you H
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Post by norniron on Jan 15, 2020 4:32:35 GMT
He played for Northern Ireland and so did Marc Wilson, just not the senior team. Maybe he was using them as a stepping stone like he accused Declan Rice of doing? Sounds like a bit more hypocrisy to me. H I don't think either had a choice did they? I might be wrong but I believe the rules only changed about ten years or so ago to allow those born in N.I. to play for the Republic. I'm not going to get into the middle of your James McClean conversation, but players from NI have always been allowed to play for the ROI, it has only been within the last 20 years that players started switching, and alot of that was down to the Jack Charlton effect, up until the 1988 Euros and then the 1990 World Cup NI were the superior team on the island and the ROI weren't thought of as a football country, after that kids in NI from an Irish background started watching their games as they had a decent team and some started supporting them and then grew up wanting to play for them, this combined with an aggresive recruitment policy from the FAI is what led to a significant number of young players switching, however in this last 3-4 years it has slowed right down to no more than 2 or 3 who have switched. As for James McClean and Marc Wilson, you couldn't find two more different situations, Marc Wilson made it clear from he was a kid that he had no interest in playing for NI at any level and no one connected to NI has an issue with him as he didn't waste anyone's time or money, James McClean however played at every age level right up to u21 level before switching, he then did a couple of interviews which did him no favours, in the first he said that he didn't have a good experience playing for NI at Windsor Park, the only problem for James was he had never played at Windsor Park for NI at any level and when challenged he had to backtrack and say that he imagined he wouldn't enjoy the experience, his second interview was even worse when he publically admitted he had no intention of ever playing for NI and had used the NI setup to get noticed and didn't care what anyone thought about it. As i said at the start i will stay out of your conversation about him, but i wanted to present the facts of his switch.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jan 15, 2020 4:48:46 GMT
I don't think either had a choice did they? I might be wrong but I believe the rules only changed about ten years or so ago to allow those born in N.I. to play for the Republic. I'm not going to get into the middle of your James McClean conversation, but players from NI have always been allowed to play for the ROI, it has only been within the last 20 years that players started switching, and alot of that was down to the Jack Charlton effect, up until the 1988 Euros and then the 1990 World Cup NI were the superior team on the island and the ROI weren't thought of as a football country, after that kids in NI from an Irish background started watching their games as they had a decent team and some started supporting them and then grew up wanting to play for them, this combined with an aggresive recruitment policy from the FAI is what led to a significant number of young players switching, however in this last 3-4 years it has slowed right down to no more than 2 or 3 who have switched. As for James McClean and Marc Wilson, you couldn't find two more different situations, Marc Wilson made it clear from he was a kid that he had no interest in playing for NI at any level and no one connected to NI has an issue with him as he didn't waste anyone's time or money, James McClean however played at every age level right up to u21 level before switching, he then did a couple of interviews which did him no favours, in the first he said that he didn't have a good experience playing for NI at Windsor Park, the only problem for James was he had never played at Windsor Park for NI at any level and when challenged he had to backtrack and say that he imagined he wouldn't enjoy the experience, his second interview was even worse when he publically admitted he had no intention of ever playing for NI and had used the NI setup to get noticed and didn't care what anyone thought about it. As i said at the start i will stay out of your conversation about him, but i wanted to present the facts of his switch. Don't come on here with facts!
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Post by madnellie on Jan 15, 2020 5:11:46 GMT
I'm not going to get into the middle of your James McClean conversation, but players from NI have always been allowed to play for the ROI, it has only been within the last 20 years that players started switching, and alot of that was down to the Jack Charlton effect, up until the 1988 Euros and then the 1990 World Cup NI were the superior team on the island and the ROI weren't thought of as a football country, after that kids in NI from an Irish background started watching their games as they had a decent team and some started supporting them and then grew up wanting to play for them, this combined with an aggresive recruitment policy from the FAI is what led to a significant number of young players switching, however in this last 3-4 years it has slowed right down to no more than 2 or 3 who have switched. As for James McClean and Marc Wilson, you couldn't find two more different situations, Marc Wilson made it clear from he was a kid that he had no interest in playing for NI at any level and no one connected to NI has an issue with him as he didn't waste anyone's time or money, James McClean however played at every age level right up to u21 level before switching, he then did a couple of interviews which did him no favours, in the first he said that he didn't have a good experience playing for NI at Windsor Park, the only problem for James was he had never played at Windsor Park for NI at any level and when challenged he had to backtrack and say that he imagined he wouldn't enjoy the experience, his second interview was even worse when he publically admitted he had no intention of ever playing for NI and had used the NI setup to get noticed and didn't care what anyone thought about it. As i said at the start i will stay out of your conversation about him, but i wanted to present the facts of his switch. Don't come on here with facts! Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true. Facts schmacts.
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