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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 14:05:57 GMT
My problem with everyone who says re Wednesday's second goal ...it was a point blank header ...it was five yards out Is ...then why didn't he come for it ? It's got to the stage now , the opposition know if they put the ball in our six yard box , butland will stay on his line , all day long . So they put it in our six yard box ! I am sorry but that's not good enough for being Stoke city keeper Grant , sorro , crossley , Southall , used to come for balls across there six yard box , get hurt , and collect or punch clear the ball Sooner them , than me , I wouldn't fancy it But that's what's expected if you want to be goalie for Stoke city I am sorry but lacking confidence , lacking a bit of bottle , not wanting to get hurt , for every corner ,for every game , isn't good enough Southall??? He played about 3 games and got us relegated
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Post by cobhamstokey on Dec 27, 2019 14:11:55 GMT
I think my biggest issue is he’s made a lot of mistakes (not yesterday) and he gets his place back whereas Federici does nothing wrong and is dropped. Federici for me has a far better command of his box.
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Post by georgieboy52 on Dec 27, 2019 14:21:19 GMT
How is he in the team Wednesday's second goal is obviously a routine tip over the bar ...for federici, grant , sorro , simo etc But I would expect the youth team goalie to tip that over the bar It's straight at him !! And the first ten minutes? , what was he doing ?? Trying and almost succeeding in contriving an own goal , from the simple business of picking the ball up from the floor , with Danny baath shielding the ball for him , and looking at him as if to say ...' what are you doing mate ' Not a saleable asset anymore. Fumbler.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 14:27:52 GMT
I think my biggest issue is he’s made a lot of mistakes (not yesterday) and he gets his place back whereas Federici does nothing wrong and is dropped. Federici for me has a far better command of his box. Exactly the same as with Grant, he played a lot of games while butland was injured , made nowhere near as many mistakes as butland .Then as soon as butland is fit , Grant is dropped .
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Post by FbrgVaStkFan on Dec 27, 2019 15:20:48 GMT
It didn't really dawn on me how diminished his play has been until someone posted a highlight montage of all season games so far (some other thread) where you see the mistakes back-to-back-to-back... Of course, those issues probably look over-blown given that format.
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Post by Ryan_Shawjosh on Dec 27, 2019 16:52:26 GMT
I'm more than critical of him but think he did well with the second goal. Made a great initial save from a free header but unfortunately, the rebound was a free header. Defences fault for me, rather than Butland.
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Post by Davef on Dec 27, 2019 17:01:43 GMT
I think when he looks back at it, Ryan will be a bit disappointed that he didn't get anywhere near that big lump of a centre forward for the second goal. Quite why Tyrese Campbell was marking him and not one of our centre halves is a bit of a mystery.
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Post by larstoke on Dec 27, 2019 17:02:23 GMT
Waste of a thread this. Great win, butland played quite well, not at fault for either goal, Jesus christ.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 18:06:17 GMT
How is he in the team Wednesday's second goal is obviously a routine tip over the bar ...for federici, grant , sorro , simo etc But I would expect the youth team goalie to tip that over the bar It's straight at him !! And the first ten minutes? , what was he doing ?? Trying and almost succeeding in contriving an own goal , from the simple business of picking the ball up from the floor , with Danny baath shielding the ball for him , and looking at him as if to say ...' what are you doing mate ' So the first 10 minutes was certainly a bit of a cock up and he was lucky. I don't blame him for the second goal, it was sent at him with real pace and I've seen those fly in many times. He did well to get a hand to it given the time he had.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 18:09:57 GMT
I think when he looks back at it, Ryan will be a bit disappointed that he didn't get anywhere near that big lump of a centre forward for the second goal. Quite why Tyrese Campbell was marking him and not one of our centre halves is a bit of a mystery. Tyrese had just come on, possiblity a miscommunication about who was marking who... We should have delayed the substitution
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Post by Miles Offside on Dec 27, 2019 18:10:19 GMT
He's a very good keeper, but going through a time of low confidence.
Having Ryan back in front of him will help.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 18:11:34 GMT
I think there's been a decent amount of improvement since we've changed coaches. Nothing against Andy Quy but it could just be a change in voice that has kick started something in Jack again, although it could also be the January window that's done it.
Either way it looks like the baby steps towards his recovery have started and long may that continue.
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Post by Trouserdog on Dec 27, 2019 18:20:02 GMT
The first was a freak goal- the ball took a slight deflection off our defender's foot and sort of spun/looped into the far side of the net at a weird angle. Nothing Butland could do about that.
The second one I'm not so sure about. The ball was right on the edge of our 6 yard box and, for me, a decent keeper comes out and punches that away. The reflex save from the header was OK, but I thought he made a mistake in diving at the rebound like superman rather than rushing out and spreading his body Schmeichel-style. It was one of those situations where genuinely top-class keepers make sure their team don't concede.
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Post by wolfinsheepsclothing on Dec 27, 2019 18:45:52 GMT
First one he goes towards the near post with no need to as there is a defender there, flaps at the ball, then he’s out of position
The second one, the very best keepers push it further away or over.....he’s then slow to the second block
His confidence is all but shot.....his distribution shows panic more or less every time he’s challenged
Maybe, with a new goalkeeper coach, a more consistent defence including Ryan, he will get some confidence back. There’s a great keeper in there somewhere.
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Post by pavel on Dec 27, 2019 19:00:19 GMT
Wednesday's second goal is obviously a routine tip over the bar ...for federici, grant , sorro , simo etc
Frankly that’s utter bollox, did well to get to a point blank header and was unlucky. Butland has come back into form the last 3-4 games, and a goalie needs a settled defence to have any chance to shine, Butland has had a series of awful and ever changing defenders in front of him and he hasn’t known whether to come, stay or twist. No goalie thrives in those circumstances.
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Dec 27, 2019 19:00:21 GMT
Thought butland made a good save from the first save unfortunately he only managed to parry the ball out towards the attacker who Joe Allen forgot to mark inside the 6 yard box.
Great win though and hopefully a turning point.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 27, 2019 19:04:15 GMT
Thought butland made a good save from the first save unfortunately he only managed to parry the ball out towards the attacker who Joe Allen forgot to mark inside the 6 yard box. Great win though and hopefully a turning point. That is spot on Allen lost his player and failed to react when Butland pulled off a decent save tbf, can't blame Jack for that the sooner Allen is sold the better if we replace him with a decent player that is.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 19:31:23 GMT
How is he in the team Wednesday's second goal is obviously a routine tip over the bar ...for federici, grant , sorro , simo etc But I would expect the youth team goalie to tip that over the bar It's straight at him !! And the first ten minutes? , what was he doing ?? Trying and almost succeeding in contriving an own goal , from the simple business of picking the ball up from the floor , with Danny baath shielding the ball for him , and looking at him as if to say ...' what are you doing mate ' A bullet header from five yards is a "routine save"? Fuck me, BananaMan. I suppose Banks was just showboating against Pele was he.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 19:36:18 GMT
As we're being ridiculous, I'm disappointed he didn't score too. His celebration showed he's able to run the length of the pitch. Should have done it in the same play as the penalty shout. Butland steaming in, simple lay off from Clucas and blast in to top corner.
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Post by Godo on Dec 27, 2019 19:42:27 GMT
Give it a fucking rest...…………..
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 27, 2019 19:46:16 GMT
Personally I feel Butland is actually regaining some form people just look at every goal conceded as a potential issue
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Post by Scrotnig on Dec 27, 2019 19:49:55 GMT
Personally I feel Butland is actually regaining some form people just look at every goal conceded as a potential issue The problem is, he does concede rather a lot - way too many in fact - and so even when they aren't his fault he is going to get the brunt of it. He is not even one quarter of the 'keeper he once was.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 20:23:20 GMT
How is he in the team Wednesday's second goal is obviously a routine tip over the bar ...for federici, grant , sorro , simo etc But I would expect the youth team goalie to tip that over the bar It's straight at him !! And the first ten minutes? , what was he doing ?? Trying and almost succeeding in contriving an own goal , from the simple business of picking the ball up from the floor , with Danny baath shielding the ball for him , and looking at him as if to say ...' what are you doing mate ' Football is about opinions, I suspect you will be in the minority with this one, nothing more Jack could do with the goals. The written and tv press quote an excellent save from Jack for the second. Liam said on radio Stoke it was a good save, where were the defenders? I am definitely in the minority , it's true !! Which is surprising me . Imo federici and grant were both more consistent than butland, less error prone and didn't deserve to be dropped I am in the minority , but I still think we are asking for trouble sticking with a goalie who stays on his line , when a ball comes across his 6 yard box . Clearly the majority are prepared to let this slide , but I think its asking for trouble . If was the opposition manager , I would tell my players to whip the ball across his 6 yard box all day long . He aint comming for it , so there is a 50 per cent chance you will score Staying on your line , for every corner , every ball across your 6 yard box ,is kids football ,not professional football People will say Banks wouldn't have kept it out Shilton , sorro , wouldn't have saved it blah blah And I say , no , they used to go for balls across their six yard box and take them or punch them clear , not stay on their line all the time But you are right , I am in the minority , a lot of Stoke fans are happy with him staying on his line
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 20:23:46 GMT
My problem with everyone who says re Wednesday's second goal ...it was a point blank header ...it was five yards out Is ...then why didn't he come for it ? It's got to the stage now , the opposition know if they put the ball in our six yard box , butland will stay on his line , all day long . So they put it in our six yard box ! I am sorry but that's not good enough for being Stoke city keeper Grant , sorro , crossley , Southall , used to come for balls across there six yard box , get hurt , and collect or punch clear the ball Sooner them , than me , I wouldn't fancy it But that's what's expected if you want to be goalie for Stoke city I am sorry but lacking confidence , lacking a bit of bottle , not wanting to get hurt , for every corner ,for every game , isn't good enough Southall??? He played about 3 games and got us relegated My lasting memory of Southall was him "sprinting" out of the area to close down that through ball and being so horrendously late. So late, it makes Sonko's (vs Blackburn) and Collins' (Bolton) penalty challenges look perfectly timed!
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Post by scfcwebby on Dec 27, 2019 21:04:38 GMT
How is he in the team Wednesday's second goal is obviously a routine tip over the bar ...for federici, grant , sorro , simo etc But I would expect the youth team goalie to tip that over the bar It's straight at him !! And the first ten minutes? , what was he doing ?? Trying and almost succeeding in contriving an own goal , from the simple business of picking the ball up from the floor , with Danny baath shielding the ball for him , and looking at him as if to say ...' what are you doing mate ' Just wow, words can't explain how much of a fucking wet wipe you look right now. Learn the gane of football before you try to pass comment on it
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Post by kustokie on Dec 28, 2019 2:21:15 GMT
Confirmation bias.
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Post by kustokie on Dec 28, 2019 2:22:48 GMT
How is he in the team Wednesday's second goal is obviously a routine tip over the bar ...for federici, grant , sorro , simo etc But I would expect the youth team goalie to tip that over the bar It's straight at him !! And the first ten minutes? , what was he doing ?? Trying and almost succeeding in contriving an own goal , from the simple business of picking the ball up from the floor , with Danny baath shielding the ball for him , and looking at him as if to say ...' what are you doing mate ' A bullet header from five yards is a "routine save"? Fuck me, BananaMan. I suppose Banks was just showboating against Pele was he. Bollox. No comparison.
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Post by Northy on Dec 28, 2019 8:02:08 GMT
Routed to his line on the 2nd goal. Could he have come out and punched it clear, or if he had been half a yard off his line the ball may have defelected over the bar, fine margin decisions maybe why no top clubs took him?
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Post by rorystowel on Dec 28, 2019 8:39:43 GMT
Jack’s role in their 2 goals are subjective and for me the defence are most at fault. But in general I agree that he stays on his line far too much when the ball is crossed into our box.
Jack’s ball distribution is also still suspect and he unwittingly invitees pressure by either holding onto the ball too long, or punting it straight back to the other team. A couple of times in the second half my heart was in my mouth as he scuffed kicks straight at opposing players in our own half.
Credit where it’s due, Jack is making some very good reaction saves of late. But I’d have no problem moving him on and playing Federici who seems to instil more calm in the defence.
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Post by Gods on Dec 28, 2019 9:07:44 GMT
The first was a freak goal- the ball took a slight deflection off our defender's foot and sort of spun/looped into the far side of the net at a weird angle. Nothing Butland could do about that. The second one I'm not so sure about. The ball was right on the edge of our 6 yard box and, for me, a decent keeper comes out and punches that away. The reflex save from the header was OK, but I thought he made a mistake in diving at the rebound like superman rather than rushing out and spreading his body Schmeichel-style. It was one of those situations where genuinely top-class keepers make sure their team don't concede. I think that's accurate analysis. If there was any fault with the 2nd goal it was with failing to get to the 2nd ball ahead of the opposition player or at least blocking it if he couldn't. I reckon his Superman attempt at the rebound got him there a millisecond too late. As for not coming out for the cross on the 2nd corner I reckon he was super cautious to stay on his line and not get done with a 'flick' inside him as he had been 5 minutes earlier with a corner from the same player on the same side.
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