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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Dec 19, 2019 23:41:50 GMT
I think it's clear who is inventing things three-and-a-half years on from the referendum. I'll leave it there though, as the conversation is fairly pointless. Boris Johnson will decide what Brexit was about now. Yes , let's leave it there... you have not given me any examples in which Brexiteers have laid all/ many of our problems at the door of the EU, problems that every country has , in or out of the EU. It's a fabrication in the imagination of Remainers.... keep saying it and some may believe it to be true. The Referendum was about self governance/ independence, not blame....of course some things such as agricultural policy, fishing policy ..we would be better off outside of... self determination Took me two minutes to find these. www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-34076034/nigel-farage-blames-european-union-for-migrant-increase : "The UK Independence Party leader said the shortage of social housing in parts of London was due to the number of immigrants hailing mainly from Eastern Europe." www.express.co.uk/news/politics/643848/UK-weather-floods-EU-referendum-Ukip-UK-Independence-Party-Mike-Hookem : "But because of the EU’s European Water Framework Directive, rivers and streams are becoming blocked by rubbish as it “calls on countries to allow rivers to remain as close as possible to natural conditions”. Mike Hookem, Ukip MEP for Yorkshire and North Lincolnshire - which has been badly hit by flooding, said: “Farmers used to get grants to drain and maintain their fields and dredge waterways. Today, that money has been spent on employing graduates with computers rather than real life experience and since the grants have been withdrawn the land has noticeably fallen into disrepair." www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1130501/British-steel-Nigel-Farage-Brexit-Party-EU-Brexit-insolvency-liquidation : “And right now today, if we wanted as a nation to put money in to save British Steel, we are not allowed to because of EU state aid rules." www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9475500/Eastern-European-criminals-blamed-for-surge-in-migrant-offences.html : "Khalid Mahmood, MP for Perry Barr (who was in support of leaving the EU when the article was written), said: “There are a lot more undesirables coming in now. They see rich pickings in Britain because there are no controls.” inews.co.uk/news/politics/general-election-2019-michael-gove-eu-common-agricultural-policy-planting-tree-conservative-lib-dem-1088839 : "Backlash after Michael Gove blames EU for UK missing its tree planting target"
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 20, 2019 5:11:27 GMT
Yes , let's leave it there... you have not given me any examples in which Brexiteers have laid all/ many of our problems at the door of the EU, problems that every country has , in or out of the EU. It's a fabrication in the imagination of Remainers.... keep saying it and some may believe it to be true. The Referendum was about self governance/ independence, not blame....of course some things such as agricultural policy, fishing policy ..we would be better off outside of... self determination Took me two minutes to find these. www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-34076034/nigel-farage-blames-european-union-for-migrant-increase : "The UK Independence Party leader said the shortage of social housing in parts of London was due to the number of immigrants hailing mainly from Eastern Europe." www.express.co.uk/news/politics/643848/UK-weather-floods-EU-referendum-Ukip-UK-Independence-Party-Mike-Hookem : "But because of the EU’s European Water Framework Directive, rivers and streams are becoming blocked by rubbish as it “calls on countries to allow rivers to remain as close as possible to natural conditions”. Mike Hookem, Ukip MEP for Yorkshire and North Lincolnshire - which has been badly hit by flooding, said: “Farmers used to get grants to drain and maintain their fields and dredge waterways. Today, that money has been spent on employing graduates with computers rather than real life experience and since the grants have been withdrawn the land has noticeably fallen into disrepair." www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1130501/British-steel-Nigel-Farage-Brexit-Party-EU-Brexit-insolvency-liquidation : “And right now today, if we wanted as a nation to put money in to save British Steel, we are not allowed to because of EU state aid rules." www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9475500/Eastern-European-criminals-blamed-for-surge-in-migrant-offences.html : "Khalid Mahmood, MP for Perry Barr (who was in support of leaving the EU when the article was written), said: “There are a lot more undesirables coming in now. They see rich pickings in Britain because there are no controls.” inews.co.uk/news/politics/general-election-2019-michael-gove-eu-common-agricultural-policy-planting-tree-conservative-lib-dem-1088839 : "Backlash after Michael Gove blames EU for UK missing its tree planting target" 7 As I said in my original post ( in response to the ridiculous claim that" Who are they going to blame for all the UK's ongoing problems once the EU has fucked off?"...get it " ALL" the UK's ongoing problems")there are probably some examples , as I said, but to claim that Brexiteers are blaming the EU for "ALL"(get it?) of the problems that each country has is nonsense...but excellent very well done for finding some specific reasons that we are better out of the EU on some issues( although as I said ..NONE on THE issues that I've referred to, with the clear exception of immigration.....yes it is important that we control our own)....you have convinced me....of course the EU does negatively impact on us in some areas...we definitely are better off out.....it gives us more flexibility to deal with issues closer to home without having to conform to some directives made in the interests of others doesn't it?
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Post by felonious on Dec 20, 2019 5:22:23 GMT
Nichola has been mouthing off all day on the TV. She really can be obnoxious. I think in the near future somebody wants to start quizzing her on the actual practicalness of how it could actually work. If we think Brexit is difficult it would be nothing like this . Just because it will be difficult shouldn't stop it happening if that's what 50.1% of the people of Scotland want. It's about self determination it's a much bigger issue than shelving it because it might be difficult. She's got the support of the Scottish Greens but not the Scottish Conservatives, Scottish Labour or the Scottish Libdems I'm not sure about the Scottish Monster Raving Loony Party. It already has 100% the political voting sound of an independent country.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Dec 20, 2019 7:31:16 GMT
Nichola has been mouthing off all day on the TV. She really can be obnoxious. I think in the near future somebody wants to start quizzing her on the actual practicalness of how it could actually work. If we think Brexit is difficult it would be nothing like this . She’s like an annoying wasp that won’t go away and constantly avoids being swatted.
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Post by raythesailor on Dec 20, 2019 8:35:09 GMT
Nichola has been mouthing off all day on the TV. She really can be obnoxious. I think in the near future somebody wants to start quizzing her on the actual practicalness of how it could actually work. If we think Brexit is difficult it would be nothing like this . Just because it will be difficult shouldn't stop it happening if that's what 50.1% of the people of Scotland want. It's about self determination it's a much bigger issue than shelving it because it might be difficult. She's got the support of the Scottish Greens but not the Scottish Conservatives, Scottish Labour or the Scottish Libdems I'm not sure about the Scottish Monster Raving Loony Party. It already has 100% the political voting sound of an independent country. I can not disagree with anything that you have said. What I am saying is that those potential 50% voters need to know the full implications and practical realities of how their lives may change by cutting themselves off from the rest of the United Kingdom. If they have that information and still vote to leave so be it. As an aside, technically Scotland is a PART of a much larger body the United Kingdom. What about the wishes of the remainder of its population? I am sure they would not want them to vote. They may well get a shock as they could well vote for it to get rid of them as many are fed up of there continual moaning.
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Post by salopstick on Jan 14, 2020 11:29:36 GMT
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Post by Eggybread on Jan 14, 2020 11:37:47 GMT
One for the courts again then.Should be interesting.
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 14, 2020 11:52:52 GMT
Boris should grant her another referendum as long as it funded entirely by the SNP, call their bluff it would be interesting to see how it panned out.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 12:01:00 GMT
If it gains traction over the next few years another referendum will be inevitable whether Johnson likes it or not......
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Post by lordb on Jan 14, 2020 12:12:15 GMT
Sturgeon is playing the long game I think
What does she want? Another referendum? How does she get one? By building pressure on Westminster govt. Did she know Johnson would deny her one at this time? Of course she did.
She can now play the 'London is denying you a voice' card to the Scottish public till the cows come home.
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Post by Eggybread on Jan 14, 2020 12:34:49 GMT
They should have one. Brexit has changed the game in Scotland completely.
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Post by Northy on Jan 14, 2020 12:46:01 GMT
Let them have a referendum, funded by the SNP If they vote leave: - Faslane Submarine base moves to Plymouth, cancel the new destroyers being built in Glasgow and give to Southampton or Portsmouth, and any new builds in Rosyth as well. RAF and Army units move south of the border All scots working in England have to apply for work permits ? There must be a million of them down here bleating on about how good Scotland is and singing about fighting the English
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 14, 2020 12:48:49 GMT
They should have one. Brexit has changed the game in Scotland completely. Not really. The support for independence is at 45% unchanged since the 2014 referendum. The real test comes next May when we have the next Holyrood elections. If a pro independence government is elected under an unequivocal independence manifesto, Johnson would / should think again. If not, independence will be off the agenda in Scotland for the foreseeable.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jan 14, 2020 12:55:27 GMT
It should be Intresting to see what happens when the fall out of the salmond court case runs it course
I shall be interested to see what wee Jimmy krankie really knew about her former bosses behaviour
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Post by felonious on Jan 14, 2020 12:57:06 GMT
They should have one. Brexit has changed the game in Scotland completely. Not really. The support for independence is at 45% unchanged since the 2014 referendum. The real test comes next May when we have the next Holyrood elections. If a pro independence government is elected under an unequivocal independence manifesto, Johnson would / should think again. If not, independence will be off the agenda in Scotland for the foreseeable. It's difficult to square this one Partick against the backdrop of Scotland voting comfortably to remain in the EU. Scotland also repeatedly votes in a party committed to independence. It's not as if they're a minority party making a lot of noise.
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 14, 2020 13:26:34 GMT
Not really. The support for independence is at 45% unchanged since the 2014 referendum. The real test comes next May when we have the next Holyrood elections. If a pro independence government is elected under an unequivocal independence manifesto, Johnson would / should think again. If not, independence will be off the agenda in Scotland for the foreseeable. It's difficult to square this one Partick against the backdrop of Scotland voting comfortably to remain in the EU. Scotland also repeatedly votes in a party committed to independence. It's not as if they're a minority party making a lot of noise. Best to keep one topic in mind - forget Brexit, forget the SNP winning loads of seats in Westminster. That one topic is independence - and the picture on that is very clear: support for independence is unchanged since the 2014 referendum at 45% (much to the frustration of the SNP).
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Post by Eggybread on Jan 14, 2020 13:36:24 GMT
It's difficult to square this one Partick against the backdrop of Scotland voting comfortably to remain in the EU. Scotland also repeatedly votes in a party committed to independence. It's not as if they're a minority party making a lot of noise. Best to keep one topic in mind - forget Brexit, forget the SNP winning loads of seats in Westminster. That one topic is independence - and the picture on that is very clear: support for independence is unchanged since the 2014 referendum at 45% (much to the frustration of the SNP). Having a quick look the polls seem very volatile. You quote yes 45% but not the no %? I think they will get it.Johnson is like gold dust to the SNP. The latest polls are 46% yes 47% no 7% undecided.But as I said it swings.Its just a matter of timing for them .
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Post by salopstick on Jan 14, 2020 13:47:45 GMT
They should have one. Brexit has changed the game in Scotland completely. Not really. The support for independence is at 45% unchanged since the 2014 referendum. The real test comes next May when we have the next Holyrood elections. If a pro independence government is elected under an unequivocal independence manifesto, Johnson would / should think again. If not, independence will be off the agenda in Scotland for the foreseeable. Will the salmon trial influence that election
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Post by Eggybread on Jan 14, 2020 13:50:25 GMT
Not really. The support for independence is at 45% unchanged since the 2014 referendum. The real test comes next May when we have the next Holyrood elections. If a pro independence government is elected under an unequivocal independence manifesto, Johnson would / should think again. If not, independence will be off the agenda in Scotland for the foreseeable. Will the salmon trial influence that election Why on earth would it? We are now not going to have independence because one of our politicians maybe a serial sex pest.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jan 14, 2020 14:36:31 GMT
Will the salmon trial influence that election Why on earth would it? We are now not going to have independence because one of our politicians maybe a serial sex pest. Personally I think the next Scottish Parliamentary elections will be Intresting The snp will want to fight it on the argument that the nasty English tory overlords won't let us have a vote vote for us to show them you want independence The rest will fight it on the record of the Scottish snp government if Labour can get its act together the next Scottish election might not go the way the snp might want it to
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Post by salopstick on Jan 14, 2020 14:41:13 GMT
Will the salmon trial influence that election Why on earth would it? We are now not going to have independence because one of our politicians maybe a serial sex pest. If your going to try and be funny at least read my post. It was nothing to do with independence but the Scottish Parliment Elections. It’s quite reasonable to suggest that if salmon is found guilty and Sturgeon and/or the SNP were involved in a cover up then yes it may cost the SNP votes and seats in that parliment
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 14, 2020 14:47:33 GMT
Why on earth would it? We are now not going to have independence because one of our politicians maybe a serial sex pest. If your going to try and be funny at least read my post. It was nothing to do with independence but the Scottish Parliment Elections. It’s quite reasonable to suggest that if salmon is found guilty and Sturgeon and/or the SNP were involved in a cover up then yes it may cost the SNP votes and seats in that parliment Your question is a good one. The Salmond trial might be a damp squib, but it might be explosive particularly if there is evidence of a cover up. We will have to wait and see.
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Post by Eggybread on Jan 14, 2020 14:47:54 GMT
Why on earth would it? We are now not going to have independence because one of our politicians maybe a serial sex pest. If your going to try and be funny at least read my post. It was nothing to do with independence but the Scottish Parliment Elections. It’s quite reasonable to suggest that if salmon is found guilty and Sturgeon and/or the SNP were involved in a cover up then yes it may cost the SNP votes and seats in that parliment "It’s quite reasonable to suggest that if salmon is found guilty and Sturgeon and/or the SNP were involved in a cover up then yes it may cost the SNP votes and seats in that parliment" So you are suggesting that the whole of Scotlands future is possibly in the balance because of Salmonds possible sex crimes. Utterly ridiculous.
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 14, 2020 14:52:07 GMT
Best to keep one topic in mind - forget Brexit, forget the SNP winning loads of seats in Westminster. That one topic is independence - and the picture on that is very clear: support for independence is unchanged since the 2014 referendum at 45% (much to the frustration of the SNP). Having a quick look the polls seem very volatile. You quote yes 45% but not the no %? I think they will get it.Johnson is like gold dust to the SNP. The latest polls are 46% yes 47% no 7% undecided.But as I said it swings.Its just a matter of timing for them . Over the past 5-6 years they have been remarkably steady at 55 - 45 against independence. Sturgeon said after the last referendum she wanted to see independence sitting at 60% for an extended period (>18months) as a trigger for the next Indy referendum. She ain’t anywhere near that. You are right that timing is everything. The problem is now ain’t the time.
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 14, 2020 14:54:48 GMT
If your going to try and be funny at least read my post. It was nothing to do with independence but the Scottish Parliment Elections. It’s quite reasonable to suggest that if salmon is found guilty and Sturgeon and/or the SNP were involved in a cover up then yes it may cost the SNP votes and seats in that parliment "It’s quite reasonable to suggest that if salmon is found guilty and Sturgeon and/or the SNP were involved in a cover up then yes it may cost the SNP votes and seats in that parliment" So you are suggesting that the whole of Scotlands future is possibly in the balance because of Salmonds possible sex crimes. Utterly ridiculous. No more ridiculous than you seeing Johnson as gold dust for independence.
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Post by Eggybread on Jan 14, 2020 15:01:26 GMT
"It’s quite reasonable to suggest that if salmon is found guilty and Sturgeon and/or the SNP were involved in a cover up then yes it may cost the SNP votes and seats in that parliment" So you are suggesting that the whole of Scotlands future is possibly in the balance because of Salmonds possible sex crimes. Utterly ridiculous. No more ridiculous than you seeing Johnson as gold dust for independence. Time will tell
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Post by Eggybread on Jan 14, 2020 15:26:22 GMT
Having a quick look the polls seem very volatile. You quote yes 45% but not the no %? I think they will get it.Johnson is like gold dust to the SNP. The latest polls are 46% yes 47% no 7% undecided.But as I said it swings.Its just a matter of timing for them . Over the past 5-6 years they have been remarkably steady at 55 - 45 against independence. Sturgeon said after the last referendum she wanted to see independence sitting at 60% for an extended period (>18months) as a trigger for the next Indy referendum. She ain’t anywhere near that. You are right that timing is everything. The problem is now ain’t the time. "Over the past 5-6 years they have been remarkably steady at 55 - 45 against independence." Wrong . So there are no undecided in Scotland? The polls and there are many in Scotland definitely show that the independence vote has increased in the last six months. Five out of the ten polls done since August this year have a 1% differential and one has them neck and neck whether you agree or disagree with it is up to you, and is irrelevant.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jan 14, 2020 15:43:05 GMT
Let them have a referendum, funded by the SNP If they vote leave: - Faslane Submarine base moves to Plymouth, cancel the new destroyers being built in Glasgow and give to Southampton or Portsmouth, and any new builds in Rosyth as well. RAF and Army units move south of the border All scots working in England have to apply for work permits ? There must be a million of them down here bleating on about how good Scotland is and singing about fighting the English Next elections sound bite from Boris. "We're going to build a wall and Scotland are going to pay for it!"
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Post by Dutchpeter on Jan 14, 2020 16:09:19 GMT
Let them have a referendum, funded by the SNP If they vote leave: - Faslane Submarine base moves to Plymouth, cancel the new destroyers being built in Glasgow and give to Southampton or Portsmouth, and any new builds in Rosyth as well. RAF and Army units move south of the border All scots working in England have to apply for work permits ? There must be a million of them down here bleating on about how good Scotland is and singing about fighting the English Astute fleets boats could move to Plymouth, but the trident boats are too big and can only get into Guzz on the spring tides. A lot of civvies in Helensborough who worked at Faslane when I was there were pro independence- go figure as the yanks say. During the 2014 referendum possible homes mentioned for the Trident boats included Milford Haven and Falmouth. A Scottish Navy would likely resemble the Rebublic Of Ireland’s small GRP coastal patrol ships. Looks like EU would have a big bill protecting Scotland from Russian incursion. I think it would be entirely fair to move warship building south of the border too.
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Post by raythesailor on Jan 14, 2020 16:22:10 GMT
No more ridiculous than you seeing Johnson as gold dust for independence. Time will tell Time will tell ! For-many years there has been a body of opinion that have thought it would be very advantageous for the UK to adapt to European Time as opposed to the GMT/BST system that we all know. Nothing to do with politics, just means we would have more daylight in the evenings instead of 0400am when we are all fast asleep in the summer. The only reason this has not been adopted is the opposition ( quite correctly ) of the Scots. Scottish Independence would mean that we would no longer be constrained and could do our own thing. As saiid earlier in my post have these people fully thought out the many implications.
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