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Post by crapslinger on Dec 15, 2019 14:37:33 GMT
Well what will be Intresting is how vocal wee Jimmy will be when salmond's court case has ran its course I shall be waiting with baited breath to find what she actually knew about his extra party activities There's something fishy about the pair of them
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 15, 2019 14:55:44 GMT
The SNP took barely a third of the Scottish vote and she thinks she's got a mandate. Just 5 years ago the result was resoundingly in favour of the Scottish people wanting to stay in the UK. She's a vile anorak with a chip on her shoulder. Fuck off Sturgeon you bitter cunt. All hail Boris. She got 45% of the Scottish vote. Boris got 43.6% overall, and I believe he “thinks he’s got a mandate.” She clearly has in that case, let them have their referendum again hopefully they will take this opportunity to gain independence, I am sure the EU will accept them with open arms with all they have to offer, their financial input will make up for the money they loose from the UK. They were protesting against Boris as their PM they would have the chance to make that a reality
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Post by raythesailor on Dec 15, 2019 14:57:25 GMT
Well what will be Intresting is how vocal wee Jimmy will be when salmond's court case has ran its course I shall be waiting with baited breath to find what she actually knew about his extra party activities Yes I love conspiracy theories, but we should wonder; Why when this case has been going on for so long was it scheduled in the courts so late in the next year.? There could be some real political bombshells in there but we may never get to hear them 😳
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Post by franklin66 on Dec 15, 2019 16:09:26 GMT
The SNP took barely a third of the Scottish vote and she thinks she's got a mandate. Just 5 years ago the result was resoundingly in favour of the Scottish people wanting to stay in the UK. She's a vile anorak with a chip on her shoulder. Fuck off Sturgeon you bitter cunt. All hail Boris. She got 45% of the Scottish vote. Boris got 43.6% overall, and I believe he “thinks he’s got a mandate.” Slightly misleading stats take scotland out of the overall for Boris then what does he get? The overall is SNP about 3% Brexit 2% stats hey!! SNP 1.2 Million 48 seats. Brexit 650k 0 seats.
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Post by farnborostokie63 on Dec 15, 2019 16:28:20 GMT
They had their chance and didn’t take it. Maybe an option would be to reverse the process we have seen with Brexit and instead of deciding first, we negotiate a notional Scottish exit and then let them vote. That negotiation in my opinion should include: sort out your own currency, sort out your own defence, all Jocks in England have to apply for English citizenship and be subject to any intended immigration quotas proposed by Boris, tariffs on Scottish goods as they need the English market, a guarantee that not a single English pound will be spent to subsidise Scotland in anyway shape to form....oh and no more media coverage of the poison dwarf droning on about independence, no more re runs of Braveheart or NYE celebrations from Scotland including a long since deceased Andy Stewart. If that was the negotiation I’d be more than happy for them to have a vote and would actively campaign for them to bugger off....had enough of them but do not want it to cost me more as it inevitably will. quite agree and no more media coverage of Andy Murray
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 15, 2019 16:45:41 GMT
She got 45% of the Scottish vote. Boris got 43.6% overall, and I believe he “thinks he’s got a mandate.” Slightly misleading stats take scotland out of the overall for Boris then what does he get? The overall is SNP about 3% Brexit 2% stats hey!! SNP 1.2 Million 48 seats. Brexit 650k 0 seats. Not sure why you’d take Scotland out? 🤔 but anyway the main point was that 45% is not “barely a third”.
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Post by starkiller on Dec 15, 2019 16:56:48 GMT
Scotland are not members of the EU.
It's unclear how they would join.
I'm not sure the EU would want another net taker.
Spain could veto their application.
I don't think the Scots will vote for independence anyway
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 15, 2019 17:21:49 GMT
Scotland are not members of the EU. It's unclear how they would join. I'm not sure the EU would want another net taker. Spain could veto their application. I don't think the Scots will vote for independence anyway Maybe not but it might shut Wee Jimmy up for a few more years winner winner chicken dinner they vote out we get rid of them they vote in we get rid of her, what would the choices be leave or remain ! no where near enough detail to make an informed decision is there
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Post by franklin66 on Dec 15, 2019 17:23:53 GMT
Slightly misleading stats take scotland out of the overall for Boris then what does he get? The overall is SNP about 3% Brexit 2% stats hey!! SNP 1.2 Million 48 seats. Brexit 650k 0 seats. Not sure why you’d take Scotland out? 🤔 but anyway the main point was that 45% is not “barely a third”. Because it's a misleading % using you formula. Captive ordinance in Scotland for the SNP for boris would it not be a fairer comparison to just use the English votes for him.
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Post by felonious on Dec 15, 2019 17:33:25 GMT
I don't think I'm missing any points Partick. I understand exactly what you're saying but the theory is that on the 31st December 2020 Scotland will be leaving the EU and this was a major part of selling the Union to Scotland. Whether you like it or not Scotland is now a one party state and there's always been a fair amount of antagonism towards England which will only be solved by independence. You’re not understanding what is happening up here. Scotland’s political landscape is currently defined by constitutional not party politics. As indeed was England until a couple of days ago. The SNP is the sole voice of independence, the union voice is distributed across the other three main parties. This helps the SNP in two ways - it delivers lots of seats in Westminster FPTP elections, and second it provides a focus for their position that is diluted and divided in their opponents. You can see echoes of hw this played out on Brexit in England. The antagonism towards England is easily exaggerated - particularly as this is a tactic nationalists deliberately and remorselessly deploy. It will diminish when the constitutional question is finalised. Which could well be in 2021 if the Unionist parties take control of Holyrood. Of course, independence would also end it as well. Well, the political exaggeration part of it. There will always be a low level degree of antagonism but that isn’t of any significant consequence. I understand that the antagonism is such that the Conservative and Labour parties need to define themselves as Scottish Labour and Scottish Conservatives and be seen and heard to be distinct from the parties south of the border. The withdrawal from the EU will only serve to cause more grief. What happens in Scotland on the 31st December 2020 if indeed that is the day that the Conservative party of England and Wales honour their commitment. I'm not sure whether you comprehend the level of antagonism towards Scotland from South of the border. It's seen as a special case with unprecedented privileges not available to England.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Dec 15, 2019 17:50:00 GMT
Comparing results from first past the post constituency voting from GE is never going give same results as proportional representation from referendum voting though. Good example is the Lib Dems polled 11 seats from over 3.5m votes and 11.5% vote share whereas SNP polled 48 seats from just over 1.2m votes and 3.9% vote share.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 15, 2019 18:20:23 GMT
The SNP took barely a third of the Scottish vote and she thinks she's got a mandate. Just 5 years ago the result was resoundingly in favour of the Scottish people wanting to stay in the UK. She's a vile anorak with a chip on her shoulder. Fuck off Sturgeon you bitter cunt. All hail Boris. She got 45% of the Scottish vote. Boris got 43.6% overall, and I believe he “thinks he’s got a mandate.” Completely different. She's taken 45% of a vote and within that 45% it is thought that as many as 30% of SNP voters do not want a referendum. Her vote proves nothing that we didn't already know in 2014 when Scottish independence was resoundingly defeated. Nearly as cringeworthy as requests for a second EU referendum. Requesting another Scottish independance vote is a waste of the government's time when we need to be focusing on exiting Europe with a good deal, investing in our country's infrastructure, investing in the NHS and properly taking control of our borders. Sturgeon can fuck off.
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 15, 2019 18:33:31 GMT
You’re not understanding what is happening up here. Scotland’s political landscape is currently defined by constitutional not party politics. As indeed was England until a couple of days ago. The SNP is the sole voice of independence, the union voice is distributed across the other three main parties. This helps the SNP in two ways - it delivers lots of seats in Westminster FPTP elections, and second it provides a focus for their position that is diluted and divided in their opponents. You can see echoes of hw this played out on Brexit in England. The antagonism towards England is easily exaggerated - particularly as this is a tactic nationalists deliberately and remorselessly deploy. It will diminish when the constitutional question is finalised. Which could well be in 2021 if the Unionist parties take control of Holyrood. Of course, independence would also end it as well. Well, the political exaggeration part of it. There will always be a low level degree of antagonism but that isn’t of any significant consequence. I understand that the antagonism is such that the Conservative and Labour parties need to define themselves as Scottish Labour and Scottish Conservatives and be seen and heard to be distinct from the parties south of the border. The withdrawal from the EU will only serve to cause more grief. What happens in Scotland on the 31st December 2020 if indeed that is the day that the Conservative party of England and Wales honour their commitment. I'm not sure whether you comprehend the level of antagonism towards Scotland from South of the border. It's seen as a special case with unprecedented privileges not available to England. Leaving the EU is already, as the expression goes, priced in. And that price is 55 for the union, 45 for independence. It won’t cause any more grief, but will give cause for the SNP to manufacture more grievance. Why do I say that? Because support for independence is unchanged in 5 years of grievance generation by the SNP. What happens on 31 December 2020 in Scotland? We enter 2021 - which is a big year for the SNP. Because that is the next Holyrood election which I assume they will contest, for the first time since 2014, on an umambiguous platform of independence. (Every other election has had the independence message diluted and compromised by looking to attract union voters by one means or another). As to English antagonism towards Scotland, I’d be surprised if it was particularly strong. Of course there are grumbles about the Barnet formula and no doubt some folk get their nickers in a twist. But it’s not a massive issue. If it was someone would be campaigning for English independence and garnering plenty of support. That, of course, isn’t the case.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Dec 15, 2019 18:43:30 GMT
Nicola Sturgeon is like a fly that won’t fuck off even after you opened the window an hour ago.
Absolute fucking parasite, she needs strapping to a rocket and firing into orbit.
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 15, 2019 19:27:14 GMT
She got 45% of the Scottish vote. Boris got 43.6% overall, and I believe he “thinks he’s got a mandate.” Completely different. She's taken 45% of a vote and within that 45% it is thought that as many as 30% of SNP voters do not want a referendum. Her vote proves nothing that we didn't already know in 2014 when Scottish independence was resoundingly defeated. Nearly as cringeworthy as requests for a second EU referendum. Requesting another Scottish independance vote is a waste of the government's time when we need to be focusing on exiting Europe with a good deal, investing in our country's infrastructure, investing in the NHS and properly taking control of our borders. Sturgeon can fuck off. I was just correcting your figure about SNP vote share mate.
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 15, 2019 19:36:51 GMT
Not sure why you’d take Scotland out? 🤔 but anyway the main point was that 45% is not “barely a third”. Because it's a misleading % using you formula. Captive ordinance in Scotland for the SNP for boris would it not be a fairer comparison to just use the English votes for him. Well not really when he’s the PM of the United Kingdom, not England. But anyway even if you did it would make very little difference. You’re talking a few hundred thousand votes (difference) out of 31 million
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Post by franklin66 on Dec 15, 2019 20:00:33 GMT
Because it's a misleading % using you formula. Captive ordinance in Scotland for the SNP for boris would it not be a fairer comparison to just use the English votes for him. Well not really when he’s the PM of the United Kingdom, not England. But anyway even if you did it would make very little difference. You’re talking a few hundred thousand votes (difference) out of 31 million Well ok the SNP took part in the general election of the United Kingdom 🤷♂️ and polled 3%.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 15, 2019 20:06:28 GMT
Democracy is just a giant pick and mix store for some people isn't it. To be worn or taken off like a cheap suit.
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 15, 2019 20:19:02 GMT
Democracy is just a giant pick and mix store for some people isn't it. To be worn or taken off like a cheap suit. We’ve had several attempts at folk defining democracy over recent days. Worth, I think, reminding ourselves of possibly the finest ever definition...
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 15, 2019 20:21:17 GMT
Democracy is just a giant pick and mix store for some people isn't it. To be worn or taken off like a cheap suit. We’ve had several attempts at folk defining democracy over recent days. Worth, I think, reminding ourselves of possibly the finest ever definition... One of my absolute favourites that! 😁
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 15, 2019 20:26:05 GMT
Completely different. She's taken 45% of a vote and within that 45% it is thought that as many as 30% of SNP voters do not want a referendum. Her vote proves nothing that we didn't already know in 2014 when Scottish independence was resoundingly defeated. Nearly as cringeworthy as requests for a second EU referendum. Requesting another Scottish independance vote is a waste of the government's time when we need to be focusing on exiting Europe with a good deal, investing in our country's infrastructure, investing in the NHS and properly taking control of our borders. Sturgeon can fuck off. I was just correcting your figure about SNP vote share mate. Fair enough 🤗
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Post by raythesailor on Dec 15, 2019 20:35:14 GMT
Nicola Sturgeon is like a fly that won’t fuck off even after you opened the window an hour ago. Absolute fucking parasite, she needs strapping to a rocket and firing into orbit. I have been smiling all night after reading your post. 😂
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Post by harryburrows on Dec 15, 2019 20:39:40 GMT
There are a number of very significant problems that an independent Scotland would face . None of them have been properly explained by sturgeon . EU membership isn't a given , spains issues with Catalonia would be one . The budget deficit would be another . Currency, does Scotland have the reserves to launch its own ? It may be forced to adopt the Euro . Capital and jobs flight , RBS have already said they would have to move headquarters from Edinburgh. Also a hard border with England might be a factor depending on our relationship a the time with the EU .Fishing access would also be demanded by the rest of the EU as a precondition Doesn't it depend upon the type of Scotexit we get Harry, Hard or Soft!!!! I can't imagine the SNP accepting a soft exit. Leave means Leave I think it's going to be a hard sell once all the pitfalls are put to the scots , I for one would be sorry to see it happen . I suspect the SNP will have braveheart on the telly the night before the next vote 👑
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Post by harryburrows on Dec 15, 2019 20:43:34 GMT
Democracy is just a giant pick and mix store for some people isn't it. To be worn or taken off like a cheap suit. Don't worry momo change is coming 😉
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 15, 2019 20:45:53 GMT
Democracy is just a giant pick and mix store for some people isn't it. To be worn or taken off like a cheap suit. Don't worry momo change is coming 😉 Change is coming mate and this city will be raped and pillaged by a hard right capitalist agenda.
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Post by 1863 on Dec 15, 2019 20:50:13 GMT
I've really enjoyed this thread. Only had a chance to 'skim read' it, but it's probably the most easily read, insightful discussion on the 'United Kingdom' well 'Great Britain' I've read in a long time.
I'm the true definition of an 'Anglo-Scot' Stoke fan. Mother from Kintyre,Argyllshire Dad from Basford!! I've avoided any political discussion the last couple of years for fearing of upsetting cousins and other family members both North and South of the border....I've got some bloody brilliant quotes from this page...'cry freedom, Harry, St George, your boys took a hell of a beating!!
Up the Potter's..😜
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 15, 2019 20:51:35 GMT
Don't worry momo change is coming 😉 Change is coming mate and this city will be raped and pillaged by a hard right capitalist agenda. The city has been fucked for decades mate. Worst case it stays one of the shittest cities in Europe. Best case we see improvement to infrastructure, stronger economy leading to more jobs and a stronger NHS.
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Post by harryburrows on Dec 15, 2019 20:53:47 GMT
Don't worry momo change is coming 😉 Change is coming mate and this city will be raped and pillaged by a hard right capitalist agenda. Mate let's tone it down now for a few years and despite our own personal loyalties and preconceptions give bojo the benefit of the doubt. I'm getting the feeling you hope he will betray his new found friends in stoke and castle . We both know labour betrayed their traditional supporters through the arrogance and stupidity of its leadership. You really should be furious with the lot of them
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Post by salopstick on Dec 15, 2019 20:54:13 GMT
It's inevitable that they'll get another referendum and absolutely right that they should get one as the UK government now finally has the mandate to leave the EU and they were promised at the last one that staying in the Union would guarantee their EU status. What was said in 2014 was a statement of fact - if Scotland voted Yes they would be out of the EU (as well as the Union), if they voted No they would remain in both unions. This wasn’t a statement in perpetuity - remember the Tory policy in 2014 was to offer a referendum so the possibility of Britain leaving the EU was known at the time of the Scottish Independence referendum (something conveniently forgotten because no one believed Brexit would happen). Today though, Sturgeon is on the horns of a dilemma. She knows there still isn’t sufficient popular support for independence despite Brexit. But She knows the clock is ticking on her ability to get Holyrood to agree to an independence referendum. The next Scottish election in 2021 will most likely see a unionist majority. So what does she do - if she gets a vote this year she will lose, if she waits to next year she will lose the ability to call for a vote. The answer is she will try and ratchet up the grievance level even higher in the hope that will push the support for independence beyond 50%. That might be tough to achieve because after 5 years of grievance agitation support has stayed solidly at 45%. Is there any truth in that many Scots vote SNP in the GE because they done necessarily want independence but want Scottish party speaking up for them in parliment
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 15, 2019 20:55:19 GMT
Well not really when he’s the PM of the United Kingdom, not England. But anyway even if you did it would make very little difference. You’re talking a few hundred thousand votes (difference) out of 31 million Well ok the SNP took part in the general election of the United Kingdom 🤷♂️ and polled 3%. This is a bit silly now - the post I responded to (not me!) was about Sturgeon’s mandate *among the Scottish people*, which is clearly a relevant measure when talking about Indy ref. The figure was wrong, so I corrected it, and as the poster was a Boris fan I pointed out his vote share was smaller in the UK - also clearly a relevant measure. That’s all.
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