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Post by StaffordPotter on Dec 11, 2019 14:41:12 GMT
So if he plays well he gets the credit for that and if he doesn't he has no responsibility whatsoever? That’s not quite what I said though is it. I’m saying he’s a great player, who at least puts in 100% with us every game. Some games his quality lets him down, but I’d put that to who he’s playing with. Joe Allen is one of our best players. Laugh out loud.
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Joe Allen
Dec 11, 2019 14:41:19 GMT
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Post by sensiblestokie on Dec 11, 2019 14:41:19 GMT
Joe Allen is a very good player. Everyone outside of Stoke can’t believe that he’s still here. We don’t know what we’ve got till it’s gone! No he isn’t. He’s a cataclysmic abortion of a player and the player I associate the most with our rapid decline. I tell you what we will have when he’s gone, a balanced midfield. 🤦♂️
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Joe Allen
Dec 11, 2019 14:42:04 GMT
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Post by sensiblestokie on Dec 11, 2019 14:42:04 GMT
That’s not quite what I said though is it. I’m saying he’s a great player, who at least puts in 100% with us every game. Some games his quality lets him down, but I’d put that to who he’s playing with. Joe Allen is one of our best players. Laugh out loud. So he’s not?
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Joe Allen
Dec 11, 2019 14:43:51 GMT
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Dec 11, 2019 14:43:51 GMT
No he isn’t. He’s a cataclysmic abortion of a player and the player I associate the most with our rapid decline. I tell you what we will have when he’s gone, a balanced midfield. 🤦♂️ Yeah, his “performances” over the last four years have often had me doing that.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 11, 2019 14:45:06 GMT
So if he plays well he gets the credit for that and if he doesn't he has no responsibility whatsoever? That’s not quite what I said though is it. I’m saying he’s a great player, who at least puts in 100% with us every game. Some games his quality lets him down, but I’d put that to who he’s playing with. Joe Allen is one of our best players. It is what you're saying though isn't it? If his quality letting him down is everyone else's fault but his, what are you doing if not absolving him? And the big problem isn't so much his quality as his brainlessness and lack of awareness.
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Post by sensiblestokie on Dec 11, 2019 14:45:18 GMT
Yeah, his “performances” over the last four years have often had me doing that. We’ve got bad players who don’t put the work in. Joe is a good player who puts the work in. You say about balanced midfields, you have to balance is around Joe. He’s neither defensive nor attacking but a good in between. Most, if not all, teams in the league would have him without a hesitation.
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Joe Allen
Dec 11, 2019 14:46:49 GMT
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Post by sensiblestokie on Dec 11, 2019 14:46:49 GMT
That’s not quite what I said though is it. I’m saying he’s a great player, who at least puts in 100% with us every game. Some games his quality lets him down, but I’d put that to who he’s playing with. Joe Allen is one of our best players. It is what you're saying though isn't it? If his quality letting him down is everyone else's fault but his, what are you doing if not absolving him? And the big problem isn't so much his quality as his brainlessness and lack of awareness. Needs players around him. The right players. If he has a bad performance it’s not through lack of effort, whereas most of the team gets pelted for bad performances because of lack of effort, which is fine.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Dec 11, 2019 14:52:22 GMT
Yeah, his “performances” over the last four years have often had me doing that. We’ve got bad players who don’t put the work in. Joe is a good player who puts the work in. You say about balanced midfields, you have to balance is around Joe. He’s neither defensive nor attacking but a good in between. Most, if not all, teams in the league would have him without a hesitation. He’s neither defensive nor attacking, there you go, so just what the fuck does he do exactly? other than run around, leave massive gaps, get wrestled constantly off the ball, miscontrol and misplace passes and be one of if not the leading cause in our midfield deteriorating to conference level. The bloke is shite, was never needed and if any team in this league parted with actual money for him I’d set my mum on fire. I can’t wait to see the back of the entirety of this squad but Allen is so far and away at the top of my list it’s staggering. Comfortably my least favourite Stoke player I’ve seen in my lifetime.
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Post by sensiblestokie on Dec 11, 2019 14:57:45 GMT
We’ve got bad players who don’t put the work in. Joe is a good player who puts the work in. You say about balanced midfields, you have to balance is around Joe. He’s neither defensive nor attacking but a good in between. Most, if not all, teams in the league would have him without a hesitation. He’s neither defensive nor attacking, there you go, so just what the fuck does he do exactly? other than run around, leave massive gaps, get wrestled constantly off the ball, miscontrol and misplace passes and be one of if not the leading cause in our midfield deteriorating to conference level. The bloke is shite, was never needed and if any team in this league parted with actual money for him I’d set my mum on fire. I can’t wait to see the back of the entirety of this squad but Allen is so far and away at the top of my list it’s staggering. Comfortably my least favourite Stoke player I’ve seen in my lifetime. Joes just a scapegoat. I mean he’s neither attacking nor defensive as a speciality. He’s comfortable doing either, midfields can have players in between. A proper defensive midfielder and attacking midfielder and Joe is fine in between.
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Joe Allen
Dec 11, 2019 14:58:52 GMT
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Post by StaffordPotter on Dec 11, 2019 14:58:52 GMT
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Joe Allen
Dec 11, 2019 15:08:11 GMT
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Post by sensiblestokie on Dec 11, 2019 15:08:11 GMT
Well you’ve changed my mind with that outstanding pitch of your side of the argument. You’ve converted me. I apologise.
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Joe Allen
Dec 11, 2019 15:23:42 GMT
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Post by jarvinski on Dec 11, 2019 15:23:42 GMT
Stunning my arse too, lets hope you’re cupping your ears somewhere else in January, you tosser
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 11, 2019 15:36:32 GMT
It is what you're saying though isn't it? If his quality letting him down is everyone else's fault but his, what are you doing if not absolving him? And the big problem isn't so much his quality as his brainlessness and lack of awareness. Needs players around him. The right players. If he has a bad performance it’s not through lack of effort, whereas most of the team gets pelted for bad performances because of lack of effort, which is fine. Directionless effort doesn't count for much - it can be damaging. His dog with a balloon act has cost us goals.
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Joe Allen
Dec 11, 2019 15:48:44 GMT
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Post by StaffordPotter on Dec 11, 2019 15:48:44 GMT
Well you’ve changed my mind with that outstanding pitch of your side of the argument. You’ve converted me. I apologise. Well you asked me, and I gave you an answer.
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Post by kustokie on Dec 11, 2019 15:55:56 GMT
Joe Allen is a very good player. Everyone outside of Stoke can’t believe that he’s still here. We don’t know what we’ve got till it’s gone! Allen plays better for Wales because he’s playing alongside better players.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Dec 11, 2019 15:57:17 GMT
That’s not quite what I said though is it. I’m saying he’s a great player, who at least puts in 100% with us every game. Some games his quality lets him down, but I’d put that to who he’s playing with. Joe Allen is one of our best players. It is what you're saying though isn't it? If his quality letting him down is everyone else's fault but his, what are you doing if not absolving him? And the big problem isn't so much his quality as his brainlessness and lack of awareness. But he doesn’t seem to be as brainless or have the same lack of awareness when playing for Wales, so maybe it’s a team dynamic issue rather than an individual issue, I’m no football manager but it appears Joes performances are improving under MON
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 11, 2019 16:03:09 GMT
It is what you're saying though isn't it? If his quality letting him down is everyone else's fault but his, what are you doing if not absolving him? And the big problem isn't so much his quality as his brainlessness and lack of awareness. But he doesn’t seem to be as brainless or have the same lack of awareness when playing for Wales, so maybe it’s a team dynamic issue rather than an individual issue, I’m no football manager but it appears Joes performances are improving under MON Does it? Before last night he'd been terrible I thought. And I'm not someone who's never rated him, he's a good player on his day. I don't seem how it can be a team dynamic issue, nobody else is making him run around chasing shadows? His performance last night owed a lot to his worst excesses being masked by Luton giving him oceans of space and by us having a disciplined DM to plug any gaps he left.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Dec 11, 2019 16:07:37 GMT
But he doesn’t seem to be as brainless or have the same lack of awareness when playing for Wales, so maybe it’s a team dynamic issue rather than an individual issue, I’m no football manager but it appears Joes performances are improving under MON Does it? Before last night he'd been terrible I thought. And I'm not someone who's never rated him, he's a good player on his day. I don't seem how it can be a team dynamic issue, nobody else is making him run around chasing shadows? Fair enough, but why doesn’t he do it (to the same extent) against Wales, it’s perplexing. Anyway, he looked great last night and if he can maintain that standard it’ll be hugely beneficial to the team.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 11, 2019 16:21:53 GMT
Does it? Before last night he'd been terrible I thought. And I'm not someone who's never rated him, he's a good player on his day. I don't seem how it can be a team dynamic issue, nobody else is making him run around chasing shadows? Fair enough, but why doesn’t he do it (to the same extent) against Wales, it’s perplexing. Anyway, he looked great last night and if he can maintain that standard it’ll be hugely beneficial to the team. It will I agree, but not every opponent is going to be as accommodating as Luton.
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Joe Allen
Dec 11, 2019 16:33:36 GMT
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Post by sensiblestokie on Dec 11, 2019 16:33:36 GMT
Joe Allen is a very good player. Everyone outside of Stoke can’t believe that he’s still here. We don’t know what we’ve got till it’s gone! Allen plays better for Wales because he’s playing alongside better players. This. This. This. That’s just the issue, but that’s not down to Allen that our recruitment has been garbage for years.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 11, 2019 16:36:20 GMT
Allen plays better for Wales because he’s playing alongside better players. This. This. This. That’s just the issue, but that’s not down to Allen that our recruitment has been garbage for years. How does this work exactly though? Our other midfielders, and he's been here long enough to have a lot of different midfield partners now, aren't responsible for him going walkabout. Or failing to press the ball. Or failing to track runners.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Dec 11, 2019 16:40:53 GMT
Allen plays better for Wales because he’s playing alongside better players. This. This. This. That’s just the issue, but that’s not down to Allen that our recruitment has been garbage for years. I was under the impression that great players lift the performances of the other players around them. Not the other way round?
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Post by pez75 on Dec 11, 2019 16:45:01 GMT
We’ve got bad players who don’t put the work in. Joe is a good player who puts the work in. You say about balanced midfields, you have to balance is around Joe. He’s neither defensive nor attacking but a good in between. Most, if not all, teams in the league would have him without a hesitation. He’s neither defensive nor attacking, there you go, so just what the fuck does he do exactly? other than run around, leave massive gaps, get wrestled constantly off the ball, miscontrol and misplace passes and be one of if not the leading cause in our midfield deteriorating to conference level. The bloke is shite, was never needed and if any team in this league parted with actual money for him I’d set my mum on fire. I can’t wait to see the back of the entirety of this squad but Allen is so far and away at the top of my list it’s staggering. Comfortably my least favourite Stoke player I’ve seen in my lifetime. All the dross we have been lumbered with in recent years, players with not an ounce of integrity or professionalism, yet you single out Joe Allen for your vitriol. Wankest post I have read in a long, long time
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Joe Allen
Dec 11, 2019 16:46:49 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 16:46:49 GMT
He was dire first off like he has been all season. Then when we scored from a cock yo by their defence I think he realised that these were easy to get at and he proceeded to play well.
I can’t be doing with him but I hope he brings his second half performance to the Reading game and not the first 30 mins.
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Joe Allen
Dec 11, 2019 16:50:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 16:50:14 GMT
AWOL until the booing and then the performance you describe. Edit - not a 10 though. 8 is fair. Scores two goals and gets an 8? Would 3 get him a 9 and 4 goals a 10? He was atrocious until we scored. Just because he scored two doesn’t mean it’s an instant 10. We had about 55 to 60 mins of good play, the other was like his usual self.
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Joe Allen
Dec 11, 2019 16:52:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 16:52:46 GMT
Yeah, his “performances” over the last four years have often had me doing that. We’ve got bad players who don’t put the work in. Joe is a good player who puts the work in. You say about balanced midfields, you have to balance is around Joe. He’s neither defensive nor attacking but a good in between. Most, if not all, teams in the league would have him without a hesitation. So what your saying is he doesn’t create much because he’s not attacking and he can’t break up play because he’s not defensive. Which leaves him with lots of sideways passing? If that’s a great player to you then god help us! Another fan who falls for running around a lot as being good. Are you sure you’re not related to him or one of his chickens?
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Joe Allen
Dec 11, 2019 16:55:24 GMT
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Post by sensiblestokie on Dec 11, 2019 16:55:24 GMT
This. This. This. That’s just the issue, but that’s not down to Allen that our recruitment has been garbage for years. How does this work exactly though? Our other midfielders, and he's been here long enough to have a lot of different midfield partners now, aren't responsible for him going walkabout. Or failing to press the ball. Or failing to track runners. Because Joe is a good player, how many managers have we had and they all agree Joe Allen is undroppable. Why is that? That’s 4 managers who are professional football managers, never mind the Wales managers who he always plays for. That says it all really.
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Joe Allen
Dec 11, 2019 16:55:58 GMT
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Post by sensiblestokie on Dec 11, 2019 16:55:58 GMT
This. This. This. That’s just the issue, but that’s not down to Allen that our recruitment has been garbage for years. I was under the impression that great players lift the performances of the other players around them. Not the other way round? He’s Joe Allen not Leo Messi, he’s a good player. Not world class.
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Joe Allen
Dec 11, 2019 16:57:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 16:57:02 GMT
He’s neither defensive nor attacking, there you go, so just what the fuck does he do exactly? other than run around, leave massive gaps, get wrestled constantly off the ball, miscontrol and misplace passes and be one of if not the leading cause in our midfield deteriorating to conference level. The bloke is shite, was never needed and if any team in this league parted with actual money for him I’d set my mum on fire. I can’t wait to see the back of the entirety of this squad but Allen is so far and away at the top of my list it’s staggering. Comfortably my least favourite Stoke player I’ve seen in my lifetime. All the dross we have been lumbered with in recent years, players with not an ounce of integrity or professionalism, yet you single out Joe Allen for your vitriol. Wankest post I have read in a long, long time He’s been the ever present in our decline, he had his pay cut wavered so he’s one of if not the top earner at the club currently and he’s offered is absolutely nothing since arriving. Running around like a headless chicken is not good football. Yes he played well second half yesterday and scored two much needed goals but apart from that he’s been awful. He’s not creative, he’s not defensive, he’s not physical, he’s not particularly an intelligent player with the ball either. He’s an engine. He’s one of the reasons why teams generally walks straight through us and for the first 30 mins yesterday, a woeful Luton did it. We generally sacrifice either a proper creative midfielder or defensive midfielder to fit him in and it’s hurt us, just as the stats show since his arrival. They’re facts and not some hatred for the bloke. He’s just a headless chicken yet that’s enough for some fans as they see passsshhhhuuurrrrnnnnnn!
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Dec 11, 2019 16:58:42 GMT
I was under the impression that great players lift the performances of the other players around them. Not the other way round? He’s Joe Allen not Leo Messi, he’s a good player. Not world class. You can surely apply the same argument to anyone in the squad then? I’d expect a player on his wages and reputation to not have to rely entirely on those around him to press properly and pick up runners.
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