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Post by realstokebloke on Jan 21, 2020 22:51:17 GMT
Do one Moyesey, there's a nice chap.
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Post by pembo82 on Jan 21, 2020 23:03:27 GMT
Joe Allen, we won’t know what we’ve lost when he’s gone.
A scapegoat for everyone that was around him not being involved and not being effective. his mistakes were when he was carrying the dead wood around him and willing to openly do things which he wouldn’t have to if the team were as committed as he was. That shows he has commitment to the club rather than personal gain
The fact is he’s been better after MON as come in and brought some drive back in the team is not surprising to me at all, he’s just not having to do things because he knows others won’t be committed to do.
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Post by LankyPotter on Jan 21, 2020 23:10:00 GMT
Joe Allen, we won’t know what we’ve lost when he’s gone. A scapegoat for everyone that was around him not being involved and not being effective. his mistakes were when he was carrying the dead wood around him and willing to openly do things which he wouldn’t have to if the team were as committed as he was. That shows he has commitment to the club rather than personal gain The fact is he’s been better after MON as come in and brought some drive back in the team is not surprising to me at all, he’s just not having to do things because he knows others won’t be committed to do. Poor take, Joe Allen was certainly not a scapegoat. He has been poor for at least 2 seasons and considering he was the highest paid player in the division last season you would expect more output. He was hiding from the ball earlier in the season, he was making stupid mistakes and was generally terrible when he had possession. What I will say is that he has been far better under MON, probably our best player throughout his time in charge - anything over £9m and its sensible business, we need some physicality in the centre of midfield as well as technical ability.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jan 22, 2020 1:07:22 GMT
1st half abysmal 2nd half mom. He did no more than anyone else in the second but did improve on his first half showing, no one else gets near Batth for motm though.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jan 22, 2020 6:04:39 GMT
I've not been Joe's biggest admirer, but after MON's arrival he has been our best player.
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Post by zerps on Jan 22, 2020 9:23:06 GMT
1st half abysmal 2nd half mom. He did no more than anyone else in the second but did improve on his first half showing, no one else gets near Batth for motm though. Yeah tbh I’d agree with baath. Allen most improved 😄
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Post by biglad180 on Jan 22, 2020 9:35:35 GMT
there is no way we should even consider letting joe go. we are still deep in a relegation battle we need our better players and joe is one of them
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Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2020 9:37:49 GMT
via mobile
Post by JoeinOz on Jan 22, 2020 9:37:49 GMT
Allen has improved because hid role is clearly defined now. With Jones he was a headless chicken. And the covering every blade of grass thing is gallant but in many respects a form of indiscipline.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 22, 2020 9:38:46 GMT
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Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2020 9:38:59 GMT
via mobile
Post by werrington on Jan 22, 2020 9:38:59 GMT
there is no way we should even consider letting joe go. we are still deep in a relegation battle we need our better players and joe is one of them It’s all to do with FFP which leave us no option
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Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2020 9:39:28 GMT
via mobile
Post by werrington on Jan 22, 2020 9:39:28 GMT
A bidding war will do us great
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Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2020 9:39:39 GMT
via mobile
Post by thehoof on Jan 22, 2020 9:39:39 GMT
No doubt those who slate Allen and accuse him of being a headless chicken are the same ones who say that Ince has been reborn as he has now discovered a second gear which allows him to track back- despite the fact he still doesn’t actually put a tackle in.
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Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2020 9:40:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2020 9:40:21 GMT
Fuck Burnley.
They can’t afford him....
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 22, 2020 9:40:27 GMT
Allen has improved because hid role is clearly defined now. With Jones he was a headless chicken. And the covering every blade of grass thing is gallant but in many respects a form of indiscipline. 100% this. He's playing very well now. Earlier in the season he wasn't and his indiscipline was a big part of the problem. Even he seems to have acknowledged this himself.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 22, 2020 9:42:44 GMT
Allen has improved because hid role is clearly defined now. With Jones he was a headless chicken. And the covering every blade of grass thing is gallant but in many respects a form of indiscipline. 100% this. He's playing very well now. Earlier in the season he wasn't and his indiscipline was a big part of the problem. Even he seems to have acknowledged this himself. Yep - can't see how anyone can deny his form under MON is chalk and cheese with what's gone on before. He himself has acknowledged it. If he'd played at this level before, the whole Allen debate wouldn't exist.
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Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2020 9:42:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by neddy on Jan 22, 2020 9:42:55 GMT
This one will go to the wire won’t it......I don’t want him to leave at this point but we may have to take the cash if appropriately offered?
My biggest hope is that if he does go we have someone lined up?
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 22, 2020 9:44:58 GMT
I'm amazed it's taken this long for him to get linked to Burnley.
Everything about it just smells right.
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Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2020 9:45:38 GMT
via mobile
Post by neddy on Jan 22, 2020 9:45:38 GMT
I'm amazed it's taken this long for him to get linked to Burnley. Everything about it just smells right. Travel particularly as he seems to be happy where he lives?
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 22, 2020 9:48:48 GMT
I'm amazed it's taken this long for him to get linked to Burnley. Everything about it just smells right. Travel particularly as he seems to be happy where he lives? Yeah - probably a factor. Think he used to live in Chester, didn't he? Don't know if he still does - but either way Burnley would be commutable, you'd think. Dyche would love him
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Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2020 9:56:11 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2020 9:56:11 GMT
The key part is who and how do we replace him?
Fine, FFP and all that and get some money into the building but ideally we need a younger replacement. Thompson seems more of a longer term Clucas replacement.
A loan is pointless IMO as it kicks the can into the summer where FFP won't get any easier.
I wonder if there is anything in the Laurent rumours from Shrewsbury as he is a similar type of midfielder?
I've already nailed my colours to the Shandon Baptiste mast at Oxford and he's billed as the best midfielder in their division, although at his young age you'd expect him to be expensive.
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Post by jeycov on Jan 22, 2020 10:00:47 GMT
Allen has improved because hid role is clearly defined now. With Jones he was a headless chicken. And the covering every blade of grass thing is gallant but in many respects a form of indiscipline. Headless chicken as having to cover for teammates who seemed incapable of fulfilling their roles when we have been under tremendous pressure? I'm sure the boo boys (and girls) will move their attentions to someone else at some point when there are inevitable setbacks At the moment there seems to be a lot more organisation and guidance on who should be where and how that role should be carried out I really hope that Joe wants to stay and be a part of our potential recovery International standard players at the club will enhance our opportunities to attract better players imo Get behind whoever plays, we're in the Championship so need to be realistic as to the challenge to do well in this league, whether that be retaining our young prospects, scoring goals or being difficult to beat Our promotion and early days in the Premiership was about getting the best from some "average " players at the time who had a team ethos - hopefully that returns
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 22, 2020 10:13:20 GMT
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jan 22, 2020 10:15:08 GMT
Allen has improved because hid role is clearly defined now. With Jones he was a headless chicken. And the covering every blade of grass thing is gallant but in many respects a form of indiscipline. Headless chicken as having to cover for teammates who seemed incapable of fulfilling their roles when we have been under tremendous pressure? I'm sure the boo boys (and girls) will move their attentions to someone else at some point when there are inevitable setbacks At the moment there seems to be a lot more organisation and guidance on who should be where and how that role should be carried out I really hope that Joe wants to stay and be a part of our potential recovery International standard players at the club will enhance our opportunities to attract better players imo Get behind whoever plays, we're in the Championship so need to be realistic as to the challenge to do well in this league, whether that be retaining our young prospects, scoring goals or being difficult to beat Our promotion and early days in the Premiership was about getting the best from some "average " players at the time who had a team ethos - hopefully that returns This “he makes mistakes because of others” is a complete fallacy sorry. If you break down the mistakes he made under Jones, Lambert and Hughes they are all pretty much of his own making. In the main he’s been excellent under O’Neill but I don’t hold with this idea that covering for someone else (which I don’t think he always does personally) exonerates him at all. I listened to a great Tifo podcast a few weeks ago with Steve Morison who basically said often a player who has energy and intent like Allen can cause problems because they don’t operate within their remit, taking on too much that doesn’t need to be done and then not doing their own job properly. How many times has Allen been pressing way too high and ineffectually and leaving massive space in behind him. Yes it’s “committed” play but it also was leaving us massively short. Joe has benefitted no end from O’Neill basically saying, don’t move and stick to your area of the pitch.
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Post by pez75 on Jan 22, 2020 10:49:07 GMT
Headless chicken as having to cover for teammates who seemed incapable of fulfilling their roles when we have been under tremendous pressure? I'm sure the boo boys (and girls) will move their attentions to someone else at some point when there are inevitable setbacks At the moment there seems to be a lot more organisation and guidance on who should be where and how that role should be carried out I really hope that Joe wants to stay and be a part of our potential recovery International standard players at the club will enhance our opportunities to attract better players imo Get behind whoever plays, we're in the Championship so need to be realistic as to the challenge to do well in this league, whether that be retaining our young prospects, scoring goals or being difficult to beat Our promotion and early days in the Premiership was about getting the best from some "average " players at the time who had a team ethos - hopefully that returns This “he makes mistakes because of others” is a complete fallacy sorry. If you break down the mistakes he made under Jones, Lambert and Hughes they are all pretty much of his own making. In the main he’s been excellent under O’Neill but I don’t hold with this idea that covering for someone else (which I don’t think he always does personally) exonerates him at all. I listened to a great Tifo podcast a few weeks ago with Steve Morison who basically said often a player who has energy and intent like Allen can cause problems because they don’t operate within their remit, taking on too much that doesn’t need to be done and then not doing their own job properly. How many times has Allen been pressing way too high and ineffectually and leaving massive space in behind him. Yes it’s “committed” play but it also was leaving us massively short. Joe has benefitted no end from O’Neill basically saying, don’t move and stick to your area of the pitch. The 'indiscipline' argument is an even bigger fallacy. Joe has been a shoe-in in every team under every manager. No manager, even bat-shit crazy Jones, would allow a player to go on the pitch, ignore instructions and run around like a headless chicken doing what ever he wanted and still play him every week. We have to assume that he has always played to his managers instructions, so if you have an issue with his positional application and role during a match then blame the manager, not Joe. People are pointing out how well Joe is playing under MON and giving the manager the credit - therefore the same applies for previous managers and the use (good or bad) of Joe's talents. He is a top player and we are lucky to still have him, its a pity that the likes of Moyes and Dyche recognise this and a few of our fans don't.
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Post by Sven on Jan 22, 2020 11:02:38 GMT
so with all this FFP and Amortisation knocking about, im guessing most of the money if not all, would be profit as hes been here a few years now?? cant remember the price we paid or the length of contract he had. Was it renewed the season we went down?
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Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2020 11:05:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by jwhpotter on Jan 22, 2020 11:05:41 GMT
Go suck a soother Dyche and piss off!
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Joe Allen
Jan 22, 2020 11:06:46 GMT
via mobile
Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jan 22, 2020 11:06:46 GMT
This “he makes mistakes because of others” is a complete fallacy sorry. If you break down the mistakes he made under Jones, Lambert and Hughes they are all pretty much of his own making. In the main he’s been excellent under O’Neill but I don’t hold with this idea that covering for someone else (which I don’t think he always does personally) exonerates him at all. I listened to a great Tifo podcast a few weeks ago with Steve Morison who basically said often a player who has energy and intent like Allen can cause problems because they don’t operate within their remit, taking on too much that doesn’t need to be done and then not doing their own job properly. How many times has Allen been pressing way too high and ineffectually and leaving massive space in behind him. Yes it’s “committed” play but it also was leaving us massively short. Joe has benefitted no end from O’Neill basically saying, don’t move and stick to your area of the pitch. The 'indiscipline' argument is an even bigger fallacy. Joe has been a shoe-in in every team under every manager. No manager, even bat-shit crazy Jones, would allow a player to go on the pitch, ignore instructions and run around like a headless chicken doing what ever he wanted and still play him every week. We have to assume that he has always played to his managers instructions, so if you have an issue with his positional application and role during a match then blame the manager, not Joe. People are pointing out how well Joe is playing under MON and giving the manager the credit - therefore the same applies for previous managers and the use (good or bad) of Joe's talents. He is a top player and we are lucky to still have him, its a pity that the likes of Moyes and Dyche recognise this and a few of our fans don't. That would explain the positional mistakes but not the individual ones, which he has still mad a few of under O’Neill (losing his runner with Woods against Cardiff, losing the ball prior against Wigan prior to the Butland, Edwards fuck up. etc.) He has tightened up positionally and has looked better, given him full credit for that and O’Neill in seeing the potential for him in that role. He may well have been in receipt of instructions to play a certain way, but I think to say it’s purely down to the manager instructions is an abdication of responsibility on the fact for large periods, he hasn’t played well, has pressed ineffectually, made individual mistakes and Why else would he admit that he’s been below par this season if he was just doing what he was asked. He wouldn’t be the the first player to make the team due to his effort alone which has never been in question. When you consider the club environment too, that probably also helped managers turn a bit of a blind eye.
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Post by thebet365 on Jan 22, 2020 11:07:32 GMT
so with all this FFP and Amortisation knocking about, im guessing most of the money if not all, would be profit as hes been here a few years now?? cant remember the price we paid or the length of contract he had. Was it renewed the season we went down? He's currently worth 3.9 Million on the Balance sheet, Will be worth 2.6 Million by the summer.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 22, 2020 11:14:28 GMT
Allen has improved because hid role is clearly defined now. With Jones he was a headless chicken. And the covering every blade of grass thing is gallant but in many respects a form of indiscipline. Headless chicken as having to cover for teammates who seemed incapable of fulfilling their roles when we have been under tremendous pressure? I'm sure the boo boys (and girls) will move their attentions to someone else at some point when there are inevitable setbacks At the moment there seems to be a lot more organisation and guidance on who should be where and how that role should be carried out I really hope that Joe wants to stay and be a part of our potential recovery International standard players at the club will enhance our opportunities to attract better players imo Get behind whoever plays, we're in the Championship so need to be realistic as to the challenge to do well in this league, whether that be retaining our young prospects, scoring goals or being difficult to beat Our promotion and early days in the Premiership was about getting the best from some "average " players at the time who had a team ethos - hopefully that returns That's still his fault though, if 'covering for team mates' leads to him neglecting his own job and pulling the team out of shape. Which it did. It really isn't a question of 'boo boys'.
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Post by Sven on Jan 22, 2020 11:27:43 GMT
so with all this FFP and Amortisation knocking about, im guessing most of the money if not all, would be profit as hes been here a few years now?? cant remember the price we paid or the length of contract he had. Was it renewed the season we went down? He's currently worth 3.9 Million on the Balance sheet, Will be worth 2.6 Million by the summer. so anything over 3.9m would be classed as profit if we sold him this window?
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