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Post by MrFlirty on Dec 9, 2019 8:18:22 GMT
If only the players were on a big win bonus and not a massive wage. You can see they are half hearted but why should they try harder when they still get a massive pay packet. They are not Stoke fans they are employees and know they will get paid or move elsewhere if Stoke get relegated.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 8:18:40 GMT
Direct every bit of anger at the players and the people in the boardroom, they're the biggest problem. They are indeed, the problem is that the club is apparently according to some posters their toy therefore they can do what the hell they want to do with it, which sadly is true in many ways, they have funded making this huge mess with millions of pounds now that takes some special kind of business acumen, a succession of disastrous decisions on and off the pitch four failed managers leading to the most expensive squad in the league destined for relegation to the third division with a points deduction, it's looking likely division four is where they are taking the club. Why make L2 the limit?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 8:29:08 GMT
If only the players were on a big win bonus and not a massive wage. You can see they are half hearted but why should they try harder when they still get a massive pay packet. They are not Stoke fans they are employees and know they will get paid or move elsewhere if Stoke get relegated. Yes that was a ridiculous decision by the club,one of many. How Scholes keeps his job is a mystery
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Post by stokie1947 on Dec 9, 2019 8:32:57 GMT
he needs to be given time with the amount of players on long contracts going to take a few years to get rid of them then a couple of years to build his own team i am afraid unless some type of miracle happens we are going to have to accept we will be in the wilderness for some years to come such a shame the board has let us get in this mess
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 9, 2019 8:40:27 GMT
Cheers. If we lose Tuesday we are down under this manager. If we go down under this manager we will never come back. Plums are ok Plums are fucking rank Very good for you actually. One of the best foodstuffs you can eat.
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Post by stokiekm on Dec 9, 2019 8:53:53 GMT
Has MON made a terrible career decision coming to a club in crisis with deluded fans who will hound out every manager incapable of turning a dysfunctional team into world beaters overnight? 100% yes
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 9, 2019 10:07:28 GMT
Has MON made a terrible career decision coming to a club in crisis with deluded fans who will hound out every manager incapable of turning a dysfunctional team into world beaters overnight? 100% yes Well he's part time so not 100% , no doubt he will become a millionaire when he is the latest victim of the process.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 9, 2019 10:11:21 GMT
If only the players were on a big win bonus and not a massive wage. You can see they are half hearted but why should they try harder when they still get a massive pay packet. They are not Stoke fans they are employees and know they will get paid or move elsewhere if Stoke get relegated. I wonder what business genius thought this one up ? a nailed on lesson on how to demotivate your staff.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 10:19:52 GMT
Ironically the players aren't on a win bonus but the manager is. What is it,£1.5 million bonus for keeping us up ?
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 9, 2019 10:26:31 GMT
First of all I don't think any more 8-figure signings will be made in the present or near future. Secondly there is no board policy of "flooding the squad with hopeless millionaire hasbeen puddings". The board didn't initiate any of the shit signings, they just approved the signings that previous managers (and the CEO and wannabee DOF) set up, because they trusted the managers and other staff. Foolishly you might say, blindly for sure, but they backed Hughes, Rowett, and to a far lesser degree, Jones without questioning whether it was money well spent. It's rumoured that some signings were rejected, but by and large the board was happy to let other people spend their money. So you're barking up the wrong tree. It's previous managers' folly that is making the current incumbent's job difficult. O'Neill knew that when he took the job. Spot on It’s just that they are too naive and trusting The biggest fuck ups start with the managers ! Look at who we signed Hughes fancy footballers from abroad his choice Rowett players he wanted at his previous club Jones league two standard players again his choices they had to be The boards biggest failings are having to much trust in the managers decisions It’s like letting a small child loose in a toy shop with loads of money they spend it on what they like but not necessarily what they need. The January transfer window will make or break MON It could be one of the most important in the clubs history
We will then see the cut of his jib and be able to judge what he is about. Until then it’s pick and mix if I’m being honest with him That's bad news if true. January is a notoriously difficult month to make signings/transfers. Clubs are looking to improve their teams for a promotion push, or avoid relegation. They are not looking to buy cast offs. Consequently MON is going to find it very difficult to remove players to make room for new signings, unless of course they give them away to get them off the wage bill. But we did not sell Butland last summer as no one was prepared to meet Stoke's valuation, and some clubs may have not like Butland's demand for personal terms. MON really is between a rock and a hard place.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 11:18:38 GMT
I wonder why no other club tried to pull him away from managing NI over the last 8 years.
We've either played a blinder or made a monumental balls up. I can't make my mind up.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 11:22:22 GMT
I wonder why no other club tried to pull him away from managing NI over the last 8 years. We've either played a blinder or made a monumental balls up. I can't make my mind up. He had offers he said
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 11:28:29 GMT
Direct every bit of anger at the players and the people in the boardroom, they're the biggest problem. They are indeed, the problem is that the club is apparently according to some posters their toy therefore they can do what the hell they want to do with it, which sadly is true in many ways, they have funded making this huge mess with millions of pounds now that takes some special kind of business acumen, a succession of disastrous decisions on and off the pitch four failed managers leading to the most expensive squad in the league destined for relegation to the third division with a points deduction, it's looking likely division four is where they are taking the club. Thanks for referring to me in the plural. The club is not only a toy for Peter and John to enjoy themselves with in their spare time. They have far great vocational purposes. They see themselves, and this includes Denise who is not otherwise interested in football, as people who are doing good, important and necessary work for the Stoke community. That's why they will never sell the club, because an outside ownership would likely not entertain any such notions.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 9, 2019 11:43:24 GMT
Ironically the players aren't on a win bonus but the manager is. What is it,£1.5 million bonus for keeping us up ? He's on a winner either way if by some miracle he keeps us up which is highly unlikely he gets £1.5m, if he takes us down which is looking more likely he will be shown the door with £1.5m in his pocket what a fcuking mess our board are making, mistake after mistake after mistake, "lessons have been learned" well if that is true why have they not been put into practice ? as long as Scholes and Coated junior are dictating the process we will not recover.
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Post by somersetstokie on Dec 9, 2019 11:44:35 GMT
I'm clutching at straws a little, well actually a lot, but there might actually very possibly be a chance that under Michael O Neill a quiet revolution might be under way. Little things are happening and small changes are being effected. Apart from the scottish assistant (Mckinley? not heard much from him yet) coming in, we suddenly have Andy Quy being replaced as Goalkeeping Coach by Rowse, indications of forward planning such as the return of Verlinden in January. the so far ineffective intention to maintain a settled team.etc But all of these things together suggest that the Manager is looking at every aspect of the club and trying to apply reasoned and constructive thought processes to the situation and thinking long term solutions. Yes you are clutching. It's very much a standard thing that staff changes whenever a new manager comes in; it just didn't happen straight away this time because O'Neill didn't have a complete team with him in his previous job. It's not necessarily a good thing, because it breaks off the continuity around the place, and once a manager is sacked, you then have to pay off not only him but his array of staff too, which, in Rowett's case, was a huge group of people, possibly as many as 15. It's just a little dramatric now because Quy had survived five managers. I appreciate your point but I suspect that there are extreme examples. Hopefully MON is identifying areas for attention as he goes along and then seeing if changes are needed. We could have had wholesale imports of support staff. I understand that "Big Sam" for example comes with a huge retinue of backroom staff including nutritionists, sports scientists, Video Analysts etc.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 11:44:59 GMT
Ironically the players aren't on a win bonus but the manager is. What is it,£1.5 million bonus for keeping us up ? He's on a winner either way if by some miracle he keeps us up which is highly unlikely he gets £1.5m, if he takes us down which is looking more likely he will be shown the door with £1.5m in his pocket what a fcuking mess our board are making, mistake after mistake after mistake, "lessons have been learned" well if that is true why have they not been put into practice ? as long as Scholes and Coated junior are dictating the process we will not recover. We'd be better run with Denise in charge over a director of football
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 9, 2019 12:00:26 GMT
I think weve got the right manager but the wrong mis mash of players. Who individually have their abilities, but together are amazingly crap. Is Priority show casing those who are welcome to look elsewhere.? If that is the case we are playing a very dangerous game throwing much needed points away in order to showcase players like Ince, Vokes and Ward, to be honest who on earth would want them.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 9, 2019 12:04:10 GMT
He's on a winner either way if by some miracle he keeps us up which is highly unlikely he gets £1.5m, if he takes us down which is looking more likely he will be shown the door with £1.5m in his pocket what a fcuking mess our board are making, mistake after mistake after mistake, "lessons have been learned" well if that is true why have they not been put into practice ? as long as Scholes and Coated junior are dictating the process we will not recover. We'd be better run with Denise in charge over a director of football I agree she has to be the person that has made Bet365 into a worldwide success, she has taken her fathers small chain of bookies and transformed them into a leading brand, I dread to think what would have happened of his son had taken the reins.
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Post by s7oke on Dec 9, 2019 12:22:39 GMT
Spot on It’s just that they are too naive and trusting The biggest fuck ups start with the managers ! Look at who we signed Hughes fancy footballers from abroad his choice Rowett players he wanted at his previous club Jones league two standard players again his choices they had to be The boards biggest failings are having to much trust in the managers decisions It’s like letting a small child loose in a toy shop with loads of money they spend it on what they like but not necessarily what they need. The January transfer window will make or break MON It could be one of the most important in the clubs history
We will then see the cut of his jib and be able to judge what he is about. Until then it’s pick and mix if I’m being honest with him That's bad news if true. January is a notoriously difficult month to make signings/transfers. Clubs are looking to improve their teams for a promotion push, or avoid relegation. They are not looking to buy cast offs. Consequently MON is going to find it very difficult to remove players to make room for new signings, unless of course they give them away to get them off the wage bill. But we did not sell Butland last summer as no one was prepared to meet Stoke's valuation, and some clubs may have not like Butland's demand for personal terms. MON really is between a rock and a hard place. Massively But can’t see this current bunch pulling us out the shit Most of them anyway
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 9, 2019 12:44:40 GMT
That's bad news if true. January is a notoriously difficult month to make signings/transfers. Clubs are looking to improve their teams for a promotion push, or avoid relegation. They are not looking to buy cast offs. Consequently MON is going to find it very difficult to remove players to make room for new signings, unless of course they give them away to get them off the wage bill. But we did not sell Butland last summer as no one was prepared to meet Stoke's valuation, and some clubs may have not like Butland's demand for personal terms. MON really is between a rock and a hard place. Massively But can’t see this current bunch pulling us out the shit Most of them anyway It's the ones he's not playing who had given some hope.
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Dec 9, 2019 12:55:28 GMT
It's not the managers now it's the club it's rotten
The board are useless and yes am including the 'fans' on it
even the capped one would struggle
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 9, 2019 12:57:52 GMT
It's not the managers now it's the club it's rotten The board are useless and yes am including the 'fans' on it even the capped one would struggle It's the managers as well as everything else. They can't be absolved of blame.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 9, 2019 13:03:53 GMT
It's not the managers now it's the club it's rotten The board are useless and yes am including the 'fans' on it even the capped one would struggle It's the managers as well as everything else. They can't be absolved of blame. They can't however this starts with the board who employ these failing managers who in turn have signed failing players, the whole process is fundamentally flawed until the owners accept that nothing will improve.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Dec 9, 2019 14:43:18 GMT
At present the manager is not the problem, he’s been here 5 minutes.
The players, the board and the owners are accountable for this utter fiasco.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 9, 2019 14:46:06 GMT
At present the manager is not the problem, he’s been here 5 minutes. The players, the board and the owners are accountable for this utter fiasco. He's the next victim lined up to protect the board.
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Post by gingerninja on Dec 9, 2019 14:52:17 GMT
He could well walk away if he thinks his reputation is taking a denting. He's got a ready made job to return to at anytime & should N Ireland qualify for Euro's & have a good tournament, his stock would naturally rise again.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 9, 2019 15:10:29 GMT
He could well walk away if he thinks his reputation is taking a denting. He's got a ready made job to return to at anytime & should N Ireland qualify for Euro's & have a good tournament, his stock would naturally rise again. Dented more like destroyed
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Post by Olgrligm on Dec 9, 2019 21:13:10 GMT
I don't think he's a poor appointment, but I don't think things would be any different if we'd kept Jones, apart from that we would have beaten West Brom. The motivation of the players is the biggest factor and that runs deeper than the manager. They need to start taking responsibility when we play in the unglamorous games, instead of playing as if the grind of Championship football is beneath them. You think we'd have beaten West Brom? Hilarious. I've seen how our players perform when they decide that they're playing an opposition worthy of sharing the pitch with them. Prior to that game our only wins were against Swansea and Fulham, when the players could be bothered turning in a performance. Last season, the only performances of note were against the top teams in the division.
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Post by Davef on Dec 9, 2019 21:31:32 GMT
You think we'd have beaten West Brom? Hilarious. I've seen how our players perform when they decide that they're playing an opposition worthy of sharing the pitch with them. Prior to that game our only wins were against Swansea and Fulham, when the players could be bothered turning in a performance. Last season, the only performances of note were against the top teams in the division. Right. We might have beaten West Brom then? Though I seriously doubt it.
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 9, 2019 23:18:21 GMT
You think we'd have beaten West Brom? Hilarious. I've seen how our players perform when they decide that they're playing an opposition worthy of sharing the pitch with them. Prior to that game our only wins were against Swansea and Fulham, when the players could be bothered turning in a performance. Last season, the only performances of note were against the top teams in the division. I think that is a very good observation. What bugged me most was under Rowett's tenure, the only time the players started to get their finger out and start bossing a match was after we had gone 2 or 3 goals down, usually when the game was gone. I'm still supporting MON although today it seems like the media have started to wind up the fans against him. He has stuck with basically the same XI and just changed the main striker and RB, apart from giving N'Diaye and Powell a run out when Clucas was injured. Jones was criticised for making too many changes; now MON is criticised for picking the same players, but the "wrong ones". I don't see the players in training and don't know who is match fit or putting in the effort, but MON and his assistants do. I expect he will make the odd adjustment tomorrow night, but will be surprised if there is wholesale change. He will keep tweaking it till he finds the best combination. I think a lot of people don't appreciate that Allen, Etebo, and N'Diaye are similar* box to box MFs who have a lot of energy and ball skills, but are not brilliant incisive passers that create goal scoring opportunities, nor are they good at defending. Hence MON is preferring to select just one of them with Woods and Clucas, plus the only two wide players we have, Ince and McClean. * similar doesn't mean the same. (Edit: Allen probably gets the vote because he does score occasionally)
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