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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 20:24:00 GMT
Has MON made a terrible career decision coming to a club in crisis with deluded fans who will hound out every manager incapable of turning a dysfunctional team into world beaters overnight? He probably has. The fans need to stop hounding managers and direct it at the board though. All these managers aren't simply shit. By law of averages alone its just not possible. The Stoke fans that go to games home and away don't "hound" managers. They are enormously loyal and patiently supports period. Some regular contributors to the oatcake, the message section of the Sentinel ,and the social mediae do hound managers after 2-3 losses. It's a way of life for them. There's a great deal of difference, except both sorts hounded Rowett, but he asked for trouble when he started picking fights with supporters.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 8, 2019 20:26:54 GMT
He probably has. The fans need to stop hounding managers and direct it at the board though. All these managers aren't simply shit. By law of averages alone its just not possible. The Stoke fans that go to games home and away don't "hound" managers. They are enormously loyal and patiently supports period. Some regular contributors to the oatcake, the message section of the Sentinel ,and the social mediae do hound managers after 2-3 losses. It's a way of life for them. There's a great deal of difference, except both sorts hounded Rowett, but he asked for trouble when he started picking fights with supporters. Don't disagree with any of that. My point was a general one in that we should be shouting at the board not the managers. I personally think the Stoke fans in general have been very patient.
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Post by rockabillyguy on Dec 8, 2019 20:32:20 GMT
rediculas question give the guy time and at least one transfer window .let him do what ever he can to turn this around with his own signings and tactics we should just concentrate on getting behind the manager and team on the pitch.....its all we can do.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 8, 2019 20:32:31 GMT
He's the right man for the job And what do you base that statement on?? Probably the same basis as why Nathan was the right man blind faith and optimism.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 20:35:37 GMT
The Stoke fans that go to games home and away don't "hound" managers. They are enormously loyal and patiently supports period. Some regular contributors to the oatcake, the message section of the Sentinel ,and the social mediae do hound managers after 2-3 losses. It's a way of life for them. There's a great deal of difference, except both sorts hounded Rowett, but he asked for trouble when he started picking fights with supporters. Don't disagree with any of that. My point was a general one in that we should be shouting at the board not the managers. I personally think the Stoke fans in general have been very patient. Exactly , just mentioned on another thread the Brentford manager has to get rapid nippy quality youngsters like Rico Henry and Ollie Watkins to perform in the championship The Stoke manager has to get over paid ,off the pace , can't be arsed fa drug test failing idiots like wimmer and berahino to perform .That is a very difficult thing to do The Stoke board are making the Stoke managers job very hard , regardless of who the Stoke manager is
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 8, 2019 20:40:08 GMT
He probably has. The fans need to stop hounding managers and direct it at the board though. All these managers aren't simply shit. By law of averages alone its just not possible. The Stoke fans that go to games home and away don't "hound" managers. They are enormously loyal and patiently supports period. Some regular contributors to the oatcake, the message section of the Sentinel ,and the social mediae do hound managers after 2-3 losses. It's a way of life for them. There's a great deal of difference, except both sorts hounded Rowett, but he asked for trouble when he started picking fights with supporters. The chant's of Gary Rowett your football is shit, Scholes and Cartwright get out of our club were the things that forced the board to pull the trigger on Rowett, the banners and chants of Hughes out plus fans confronting the players and manager after the Tottenham game at Stoke station pushed them into finally bulleting Hughes, the booing at half and full times and the swathes of empty seats plus the lack of atmosphere forced the long overdue axing of Jones. Blaming the comments many justified on a football forum will be very low down on contributing factors in any of these sackings, do you really for one minute believe our board even look at this board or any other social media ? maybe if they had we wouldn't be in the mess we are in.
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 8, 2019 20:43:50 GMT
Don't disagree with any of that. My point was a general one in that we should be shouting at the board not the managers. I personally think the Stoke fans in general have been very patient. Exactly , just mentioned on another thread the Brentford manager has to get rapid nippy quality youngsters like Rico Henry and Ollie Watkins to perform in the championship The Stoke manager has to get over paid ,off the pace , can't be arsed fa drug test failing idiots like wimmer and berahino to perform .That is a very difficult thing to do The Stoke board are making the Stoke managers job very hard , regardless of who the Stoke manager is Load of cobblers. The Board are guilty of two things. Complacency and signing toss managers.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 20:45:00 GMT
The Stoke fans that go to games home and away don't "hound" managers. They are enormously loyal and patiently supports period. Some regular contributors to the oatcake, the message section of the Sentinel ,and the social mediae do hound managers after 2-3 losses. It's a way of life for them. There's a great deal of difference, except both sorts hounded Rowett, but he asked for trouble when he started picking fights with supporters. The chant's of Gary Rowett your football is shit, Scholes and Cartwright get out of our club were the things that forced the board to pull the trigger on Rowett, the banners and chants of Hughes out plus fans confronting the players and manager after the Tottenham game at Stoke station pushed them into finally bulleting Hughes, the booing at half and full times and the swathes of empty seats plus the lack of atmosphere forced the long overdue axing of Jones. Blaming the comments many justified on a football forum will be very low down on contributing factors in any of these sackings, do you really for one minute believe our board even look at this board or any other social media ? maybe if they had we wouldn't be in the mess we are in. Jones was sacked for results
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 8, 2019 20:48:23 GMT
The chant's of Gary Rowett your football is shit, Scholes and Cartwright get out of our club were the things that forced the board to pull the trigger on Rowett, the banners and chants of Hughes out plus fans confronting the players and manager after the Tottenham game at Stoke station pushed them into finally bulleting Hughes, the booing at half and full times and the swathes of empty seats plus the lack of atmosphere forced the long overdue axing of Jones. Blaming the comments many justified on a football forum will be very low down on contributing factors in any of these sackings, do you really for one minute believe our board even look at this board or any other social media ? maybe if they had we wouldn't be in the mess we are in. Jones was sacked for results Sorry how could I forget that, he certainly was not sacked because of the views of people on social media though , it's an easy lazy cop out.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 8, 2019 20:51:26 GMT
Exactly , just mentioned on another thread the Brentford manager has to get rapid nippy quality youngsters like Rico Henry and Ollie Watkins to perform in the championship The Stoke manager has to get over paid ,off the pace , can't be arsed fa drug test failing idiots like wimmer and berahino to perform .That is a very difficult thing to do The Stoke board are making the Stoke managers job very hard , regardless of who the Stoke manager is Load of cobblers. The Board are guilty of two things. Complacency and signing toss managers. Its not cobblers though. The club have allowed a 4 year flat spin. As you say yourself through their own complacency. That now makes the job increasingly hard for every new manager that comes in. Funny how all of the managers employed have done ok elsewhere. MH started it with no control over discipline and the club through their complacency allowed it to take root. Now we have an overpaid massive squad that criminally has very little discipline. Clubs fault, nobody else's.
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Post by puddledpotter on Dec 8, 2019 20:59:09 GMT
The simple answer to the question is we don't know either way at the moment. He has had 5 games and has a pool of players all signed under previous managers. A number of players were allegedly brought in to play a particular type of football and it failed. A lot of them are either incapable or unwilling to put in any level of effort and seem to lack the concentration and ability to even do the basics such as pass to their teammates. He does have a track record of putting together teams that are more than the sum of their parts and is reputed to be a hard taskmaster demanding 100% application and effort. We all want to see our team in a better position but we will not see it if we keep as some seem to want change the manager every few months. Getting us out of a mess 4 years in the making will not happen overnight it will take time and patience and will be likely to involve some pain on the way.
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 8, 2019 21:01:37 GMT
The simple answer to the question is we don't know either way at the moment. He has had 5 games and has a pool of players all signed under previous managers. A number of players were allegedly brought in to play a particular type of football and it failed. A lot of them are either incapable or unwilling to put in any level of effort and seem to lack the concentration and ability to even do the basics such as pass to their teammates. He does have a track record of putting together teams that are more than the sum of their parts and is reputed to be a hard taskmaster demanding 100% application and effort. We all want to see our team in a better position but we will not see it if we keep as some seem to want change the manager every few months. Getting us out of a mess 4 years in the making will not happen overnight it will take time and patience and will be likely to involve some pain on the way. That's what was said about the last manager.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 21:19:58 GMT
Exactly , just mentioned on another thread the Brentford manager has to get rapid nippy quality youngsters like Rico Henry and Ollie Watkins to perform in the championship The Stoke manager has to get over paid ,off the pace , can't be arsed fa drug test failing idiots like wimmer and berahino to perform .That is a very difficult thing to do No, he doesn't. He could play nippy youngsters like Sorensen, Jarvis and others, or at least pick them from the bench, instead he chooses players that have already failed to deliver on a consistent basis over the last 12-18 months.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 21:23:00 GMT
The Stoke fans that go to games home and away don't "hound" managers. They are enormously loyal and patiently supports period. Some regular contributors to the oatcake, the message section of the Sentinel ,and the social mediae do hound managers after 2-3 losses. It's a way of life for them. There's a great deal of difference, except both sorts hounded Rowett, but he asked for trouble when he started picking fights with supporters. The chant's of Gary Rowett your football is shit, Scholes and Cartwright get out of our club were the things that forced the board to pull the trigger on Rowett, the banners and chants of Hughes out plus fans confronting the players and manager after the Tottenham game at Stoke station pushed them into finally bulleting Hughes, the booing at half and full times and the swathes of empty seats plus the lack of atmosphere forced the long overdue axing of Jones. Blaming the comments many justified on a football forum will be very low down on contributing factors in any of these sackings, do you really for one minute believe our board even look at this board or any other social media ? maybe if they had we wouldn't be in the mess we are in. That's my point, maybe I didn't make it clear enough. What we do has zero impact on club decisions.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 21:29:04 GMT
Exactly , just mentioned on another thread the Brentford manager has to get rapid nippy quality youngsters like Rico Henry and Ollie Watkins to perform in the championship The Stoke manager has to get over paid ,off the pace , can't be arsed fa drug test failing idiots like wimmer and berahino to perform .That is a very difficult thing to do No, he doesn't. He could play nippy youngsters like Sorensen, Jarvis and others, or at least pick them from the bench, instead he chooses players that have already failed to deliver on a consistent basis over the last 12-18 months. That would be an improvement Anything would be improvement ! But it doesn't explain why the club are signing wimmer berahino etc for millions , when they should be signing Henry Watkins etc for pennies I think the boards policy of flooding the squad with hopeless millionaire footballing hasbeen puddings , makes the Stoke managers job more difficult than it should be
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Post by Davef on Dec 8, 2019 21:31:22 GMT
Exactly , just mentioned on another thread the Brentford manager has to get rapid nippy quality youngsters like Rico Henry and Ollie Watkins to perform in the championship The Stoke manager has to get over paid ,off the pace , can't be arsed fa drug test failing idiots like wimmer and berahino to perform .That is a very difficult thing to do No, he doesn't. He could play nippy youngsters like Sorensen, Jarvis and others, or at least pick them from the bench, instead he chooses players that have already failed to deliver on a consistent basis over the last 12-18 months. Can you name me another manager who's taken over a struggling club with a first team squad considered too large and filled the team with untried youngsters?
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Post by crouchie on Dec 8, 2019 21:40:11 GMT
No, he doesn't. He could play nippy youngsters like Sorensen, Jarvis and others, or at least pick them from the bench, instead he chooses players that have already failed to deliver on a consistent basis over the last 12-18 months. Can you name me another manager who's taken over a struggling club with a first team squad considered too large and filled the team with untried youngsters? maybe some should try it eh?
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 8, 2019 21:47:56 GMT
No, he doesn't. He could play nippy youngsters like Sorensen, Jarvis and others, or at least pick them from the bench, instead he chooses players that have already failed to deliver on a consistent basis over the last 12-18 months. Can you name me another manager who's taken over a struggling club with a first team squad considered too large and filled the team with untried youngsters? We should carry on playing tried and tested overpaid, overrated, underperforming, can't be arsed, unmotivated, unfit, slow, plodding has beens it's working swimmingly shame we are anchored at the foot of the table.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Dec 8, 2019 21:52:46 GMT
No, he doesn't. He could play nippy youngsters like Sorensen, Jarvis and others, or at least pick them from the bench, instead he chooses players that have already failed to deliver on a consistent basis over the last 12-18 months. Can you name me another manager who's taken over a struggling club with a first team squad considered too large and filled the team with untried youngsters? I'm sure it will come to that in the not so distant future
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Post by sealion100 on Dec 8, 2019 21:54:23 GMT
Trouble is... we’ve been watching this shower of shit for some time MON hasn’t...... it’s weird I know, but he’s just finding out what the supporters already knew .... that the squad is an unbalanced shambles
Problem here is Your asking Fans that have been ultra supportive and loyal to be patient whilst another assessment Of this dog shit squad takes place !!!
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 8, 2019 22:01:19 GMT
Trouble is... we’ve been watching this shower of shit for some time MON hasn’t...... it’s weird I know, but he’s just finding out what the supporters already knew .... that the squad is an unbalanced shambles Problem here is Your asking Fans that have been ultra supportive and loyal to be patient whilst another assessment Of this dog shit squad takes place !!! He's just finding out!! Surely he must have done some due diligence on the Club? Surely we (the Club) should have given him some intelligence on the modus operandi..? Surely he must have known we are in the shit and had some semblance of refurbishment plan? Surely.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 8, 2019 22:17:53 GMT
Trouble is... we’ve been watching this shower of shit for some time MON hasn’t...... it’s weird I know, but he’s just finding out what the supporters already knew .... that the squad is an unbalanced shambles Problem here is Your asking Fans that have been ultra supportive and loyal to be patient whilst another assessment Of this dog shit squad takes place !!! You would imagine from the hype that he had prior knowledge of the squad before we employed him ! or is someone telling porkies again if not why did we employ a man with no prior knowledge of said so called squad ? that would make no sense at all would it ? a manager who has never managed in the English Leagues with no knowledge of the players he was taking charge of ! you just wouldn't take that risk would you ?
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 8, 2019 22:22:09 GMT
Trouble is... we’ve been watching this shower of shit for some time MON hasn’t...... it’s weird I know, but he’s just finding out what the supporters already knew .... that the squad is an unbalanced shambles Problem here is Your asking Fans that have been ultra supportive and loyal to be patient whilst another assessment Of this dog shit squad takes place !!! You would imagine from the hype that he had prior knowledge of the squad before we employed him ! or is someone telling porkies again if not why did we employ a man with no prior knowledge of said so called squad ? that would make no sense at all would it ? a manager who has never managed in the English Leagues with no knowledge of the players he was taking charge of ! you just wouldn't take that risk would you ? Our joke of a board would. Messing up big strategic decisions is what they excel at.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 8, 2019 22:34:01 GMT
That's how I read it. He's building a team now that hopefully will be half decent at the business end of the season rather than do a mic and match and hope for the best. Any improvement will be gradual and not the dead cat bounce most on here were looking for when Jones was replaced. Is that not a risky strategy? What if the improvement never comes because of he's relying on a piss-weak midfield that's neither sturdy nor creative? We'd then have left ourselves no chance because we'd prioritised mythical, far-off 'future' points rather than trying to scramble for any and all available ones given the severity of the situation? O'Neil has to make a call as to how best to deal with what is a desperate situation. He's identified the lack of teamwork and inconsistency in team selection to be the problem and is basing his strategy on getting a core group of players to understand each other. He might be right or he might be wrong but we won't know for several months whether he has made the right call. Like it or not he's playing a long game and making judgements after 5 games is pointless. It's pretty clear teamwork is very important in the Championship - we're crap as a unit and getting turned over as a result. We'll stay up if O'Neil manages to make us better than the sum of our parts. But that will take time.
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Post by Davef on Dec 8, 2019 22:37:34 GMT
Trouble is... we’ve been watching this shower of shit for some time MON hasn’t...... it’s weird I know, but he’s just finding out what the supporters already knew .... that the squad is an unbalanced shambles Problem here is Your asking Fans that have been ultra supportive and loyal to be patient whilst another assessment Of this dog shit squad takes place !!! You would imagine from the hype that he had prior knowledge of the squad before we employed him ! or is someone telling porkies again if not why did we employ a man with no prior knowledge of said so called squad ? that would make no sense at all would it ? a manager who has never managed in the English Leagues with no knowledge of the players he was taking charge of ! you just wouldn't take that risk would you ? What makes you think that O'Neill knew any less about the squad than of the other men touted for the job? Did Danny Cowley know all about Huddersfield's squad before he took that job?
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 8, 2019 22:40:02 GMT
You would imagine from the hype that he had prior knowledge of the squad before we employed him ! or is someone telling porkies again if not why did we employ a man with no prior knowledge of said so called squad ? that would make no sense at all would it ? a manager who has never managed in the English Leagues with no knowledge of the players he was taking charge of ! you just wouldn't take that risk would you ? Our joke of a board would. Messing up big strategic decisions is what they excel at. That my friend is what I fear, the biggest gamble of the last three is the one that has to work or we are staring down the barrel of a very large gun, just what evidence they have used to base this appointment on is a total mystery to me, it looks like a total shot in the dark all on number seven croupier, for the founders of a betting company it's all very unnerving, would his daughter approve of this after all she obviously has the brains in the family ?
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 8, 2019 22:41:45 GMT
Is that not a risky strategy? What if the improvement never comes because of he's relying on a piss-weak midfield that's neither sturdy nor creative? We'd then have left ourselves no chance because we'd prioritised mythical, far-off 'future' points rather than trying to scramble for any and all available ones given the severity of the situation? O'Neil has to make a call as to how best to deal with what is a desperate situation. He's identified the lack of teamwork and inconsistency in team selection to be the problem and is basing his strategy on getting a core group of players to understand each other. He might be right or he might be wrong but we won't know for several months whether he has made the right call. Like it or not he's playing a long game and making judgements after 5 games is pointless. It's pretty clear teamwork is very important in the Championship - we're crap as a unit and getting turned over as a result. We'll stay up if O'Neil manages to make us better than the sum of our parts. But that will take time. We don't have several months do we ?
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 8, 2019 22:42:32 GMT
You would imagine from the hype that he had prior knowledge of the squad before we employed him ! or is someone telling porkies again if not why did we employ a man with no prior knowledge of said so called squad ? that would make no sense at all would it ? a manager who has never managed in the English Leagues with no knowledge of the players he was taking charge of ! you just wouldn't take that risk would you ? What makes you think that O'Neill knew any less about the squad than of the other men touted for the job? Did Danny Cowley know all about Huddersfield's squad before he took that job? Are you telling me that in this day and age.. Michael rocked up Clayton Wood not knowing the statistics and history of the squad.?
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Post by Davef on Dec 8, 2019 22:43:22 GMT
What makes you think that O'Neill knew any less about the squad than of the other men touted for the job? Did Danny Cowley know all about Huddersfield's squad before he took that job? Are you telling g me that in this day and age.. Michael rocked up Clsyron Wood not knowing the statistics and history of the squad.? No.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 8, 2019 22:43:37 GMT
Is that not a risky strategy? What if the improvement never comes because of he's relying on a piss-weak midfield that's neither sturdy nor creative? We'd then have left ourselves no chance because we'd prioritised mythical, far-off 'future' points rather than trying to scramble for any and all available ones given the severity of the situation? O'Neil has to make a call as to how best to deal with what is a desperate situation. He's identified the lack of teamwork and inconsistency in team selection to be the problem and is basing his strategy on getting a core group of players to understand each other. He might be right or he might be wrong but we won't know for several months whether he has made the right call. Like it or not he's playing a long game and making judgements after 5 games is pointless. It's pretty clear teamwork is very important in the Championship - we're crap as a unit and getting turned over as a result. We'll stay up if O'Neil manages to make us better than the sum of our parts. But that will take time. We’ll continue to get turned over with the midfield he’s settled on. It’s too weak. If there are good things in the pipeline you see signs of that in the performances even if you’re not initially getting the results. But we look as bad as we ever have done at the moment. Keep picking the wrong team and it won’t magically become the right team in a couple of months’ time. We need points now. We can’t afford a jam tomorrow approach.
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