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Post by stokie223 on Dec 3, 2019 14:38:54 GMT
Messi's won more trophies. He also won 'player of the tournament' at the 2014 world cup. Argentina's all time top scorer... done alright for someone that 'fell to pieces'. He's 29 international goals behind Ronaldo despite being two years younger. You only have to look at Barcelona's record in recent years when he doesn't play, it's woeful. The only thing that's in any way comparable is their goal tally - and Messi wins that one comfortably in terms of goals/game too. He's comfortably better than Ronaldo. Ronaldo started out as a winger, and hasn’t always played for a team that retains 60-80% possession every game. Was told the other day that Rashford has more goals than Ronaldo did at that age. It’s simple not a like for like comparison. They are both immense players who instead of comparing and arguing black and white we should just appreciate how good they both are. Messi Ronaldo Ronaldo Nazario Best Pelé Stan Could go on Each were the goat for their era, but it’s impossible to say which is the greatest because they are all so far ahead of anything else. Not a dig aimed at you just something the winds me up 😂😂😂 Ronaldo played for the best team in Portugal at that time, the best team in England at that time, and then arguably the best team (certainly second best if not) in Spain at that time. They were in the same league for almost a decade - and Messi outscored and won more trophies. Barring a period as a 'false 9' Messi has spent most of his career on the wing also. I agree, we should appreciate both, but inevitably these kind of comparisons do happen. For my money it's not even close between the two. As I've said the goal-scoring ratios are comparable (although Messi's superior) but Messi creates a sense of joy that's unlike any other footballer I've ever seen. |
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Post by stokie223 on Dec 3, 2019 14:43:25 GMT
He got them to a World Cup final  He got his act together a bit for that tournament, agreed. I've always thought Ronaldo was technically better, with Messi being the better natural player with his agility and feints, if that makes sense. Messi's won more trophies. He also won 'player of the tournament' at the 2014 world cup. Argentina's all time top scorer... done alright for someone that 'fell to pieces'. He's 29 international goals behind Ronaldo despite being two years younger. You only have to look at Barcelona's record in recent years when he doesn't play, it's woeful. The only thing that's in any way comparable is their goal tally - and Messi wins that one comfortably in terms of goals/game too. He's comfortably better than Ronaldo. I didn't say his record was better mate. I'd rather have Ronaldo at the top of his game than Messi at the top of his game in the team. You said that for your money, peak Ronaldo was better than peak Messi. All I'm saying is that in almost every quantifiable aspect of the game, the latter has outperformed the former. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 3, 2019 15:48:33 GMT
Ronaldo started out as a winger, and hasn’t always played for a team that retains 60-80% possession every game. Was told the other day that Rashford has more goals than Ronaldo did at that age. It’s simple not a like for like comparison. They are both immense players who instead of comparing and arguing black and white we should just appreciate how good they both are. Messi Ronaldo Ronaldo Nazario Best Pelé Stan Could go on Each were the goat for their era, but it’s impossible to say which is the greatest because they are all so far ahead of anything else. Not a dig aimed at you just something the winds me up 😂😂😂 Ronaldo played for the best team in Portugal at that time, the best team in England at that time, and then arguably the best team (certainly second best if not) in Spain at that time. They were in the same league for almost a decade - and Messi outscored and won more trophies. Barring a period as a 'false 9' Messi has spent most of his career on the wing also. I agree, we should appreciate both, but inevitably these kind of comparisons do happen. For my money it's not even close between the two. As I've said the goal-scoring ratios are comparable (although Messi's superior) but Messi creates a sense of joy that's unlike any other footballer I've ever seen. He only won La Liga twice in his nine years in a "poxy league". (Not quoting you  ) |
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Post by sensiblestokie on Dec 3, 2019 23:49:38 GMT
As much as it may sound wank, anyone who actually believes Ronaldo is a better footballer than Messi I just can’t take any footballing opinion from them seriously.
I know which posters to avoid 😂
It’s as clear as night and day, the only people who think Ronaldo is better than Messi are United fans. So at least it’s easy to spot who was a Utd fan growing up here 😂
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Post by duckling on Dec 4, 2019 4:13:28 GMT
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Post by GeneralFaye on Dec 4, 2019 6:51:12 GMT
It's like Brexit with you lot when it come to Messi v Ronaldo, if you prefer one then you have to say the other is shit  For me, I'd have peak Ronaldo in my team every day of the week. Shockingly though, I still admire Messi.. if that's allowed?! |
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Post by mrred on Dec 4, 2019 7:05:56 GMT
Greatest of all time in my opinion. We'll never see anyone close to him again for a very long time.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 12:58:41 GMT
One of the clear differences is Messi generally starts the build up to quite a few of his goals from deep midfield before receiving it up the other end and scoring.
Both different types of players, both head and shoulders above anyone else.
I prefer to watch how Messi plays but that’s just me preference.
The other thing, both players are constantly fed the ball considerably more than any other players in football so expect them to score more.
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Post by sensiblestokie on Dec 5, 2019 2:05:09 GMT
It's like Brexit with you lot when it come to Messi v Ronaldo, if you prefer one then you have to say the other is shit For me, I'd have peak Ronaldo in my team every day of the week. Shockingly though, I still admire Messi.. if that's allowed?! No, no that’s certainly not allowed. Pick one and hate the other like everyone else! Both great players, just one is the best ever! |
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 5, 2019 2:35:47 GMT
As much as it may sound wank, anyone who actually believes Ronaldo is a better footballer than Messi I just can’t take any footballing opinion from them seriously. I know what you mean. It’s impossible to avoid sounding like a self-righteous wanker but anyone who thinks Ronaldo is better than Messi is either trying far too hard to be different, or simply doesn’t understand football at the most fundamental level. 😁 Edit- might as well put in my amazing quote that I try to popularise every time this debate comes up - Ronaldo is superhuman, but Messi is supernatural. 🙂 |
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Post by StatesideStokie on Dec 5, 2019 3:06:22 GMT
Ive seen Messi play live twice. Most recently against Brazil in the summer for Argentina. He was absolutely hapless, couldn't pass to his own teammates, woeful control and useless in front of goal. Before that was in 2014 el classico when Barca lost 3-1 and he was the worst player on the pitch. He played like Tom Ince in disguise. I must be bad luck. His consistently poor performances for Argentina gives Ronaldo the edge for me. Consistently poor? Jesus.... |
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Post by JoeinOz on Dec 5, 2019 4:39:33 GMT
I was hoping this futile dispute ad ran it's course. But the egos won't let go of their end of the bone.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 5, 2019 10:54:50 GMT
Ive seen Messi play live twice. Most recently against Brazil in the summer for Argentina. He was absolutely hapless, couldn't pass to his own teammates, woeful control and useless in front of goal. Before that was in 2014 el classico when Barca lost 3-1 and he was the worst player on the pitch. He played like Tom Ince in disguise. I must be bad luck. His consistently poor performances for Argentina gives Ronaldo the edge for me. Consistently poor? Jesus.... I'm saying that from experience speaking to the Argentina fans at major tournaments I've been to over the years. They think he's a real problem (I guess similar to how we felt about Rooney's inclusion simply to accommodate Rooney). Its a big thing out there and the view is resoundingly that Messi doesn't perform consistently for his country and these performances have gradually worsened in the past few years. He was absolutely non existant in Russia in 2018 and last summer in Brazil. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Dec 5, 2019 11:57:53 GMT
Consistently poor? Jesus.... I'm saying that from experience speaking to the Argentina fans at major tournaments I've been to over the years. They think he's a real problem (I guess similar to how we felt about Rooney's inclusion simply to accommodate Rooney). Its a big thing out there and the view is resoundingly that Messi doesn't perform consistently for his country and these performances have gradually worsened in the past few years. He was absolutely non existant in Russia in 2018 and last summer in Brazil. He's played 138 times for Argentina and scored 70. Over two a goal every two games. Messi single handedly got them to Russia. He scored 7 in qualifiers including the priceless hat trick in the Ecuador game. The thing is it's not really possible for him to live up to expectations. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 5, 2019 12:38:21 GMT
I'm saying that from experience speaking to the Argentina fans at major tournaments I've been to over the years. They think he's a real problem (I guess similar to how we felt about Rooney's inclusion simply to accommodate Rooney). Its a big thing out there and the view is resoundingly that Messi doesn't perform consistently for his country and these performances have gradually worsened in the past few years. He was absolutely non existant in Russia in 2018 and last summer in Brazil. He's played 138 times for Argentina and scored 70. Over two a goal every two games. Messi single handedly got them to Russia. He scored 7 in qualifiers including the priceless hat trick in the Ecuador game. The thing is it's not really possible for him to live up to expectations. I'm only saying what the Argentina fans think mate. He got booed by certain sections of their fans in their game against Brazil. He has scored a load of goals in qualifiers but the opposition was pretty wretched and that's no different to Rooney for England. We'd hardly say Rooney was England's greatest would we? He fucked it in pretty much every major tournament. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 5, 2019 12:39:53 GMT
He's played 138 times for Argentina and scored 70. Over two a goal every two games. Messi single handedly got them to Russia. He scored 7 in qualifiers including the priceless hat trick in the Ecuador game. The thing is it's not really possible for him to live up to expectations. I'm only saying what the Argentina fans think mate. He got booed by certain sections of their fans in their game against Brazil. He has scored a load of goals in qualifiers but the opposition was pretty wretched and that's no different to Rooney for England. We'd hardly say Rooney was England's greatest would we? He fucked it in pretty much every major tournament. Isn't their antipathy towards him not massively football related though? Isn't it a Liverpool/Michael Owen type thing of him being unloved because he's not really seen as 'one of them'? |
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 5, 2019 13:02:56 GMT
I'm only saying what the Argentina fans think mate. He got booed by certain sections of their fans in their game against Brazil. He has scored a load of goals in qualifiers but the opposition was pretty wretched and that's no different to Rooney for England. We'd hardly say Rooney was England's greatest would we? He fucked it in pretty much every major tournament. Isn't their antipathy towards him not massively football related though? Isn't it a Liverpool/Michael Owen type thing of him being unloved because he's not really seen as 'one of them'? Correct. It's nothing to do with his performances really, it's to do with his perceived antipathy towards the national team (which is also incredibly unfair tbh) |
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 5, 2019 13:04:46 GMT
He's played 138 times for Argentina and scored 70. Over two a goal every two games. Messi single handedly got them to Russia. He scored 7 in qualifiers including the priceless hat trick in the Ecuador game. The thing is it's not really possible for him to live up to expectations. I'm only saying what the Argentina fans think mate. He got booed by certain sections of their fans in their game against Brazil. He has scored a load of goals in qualifiers but the opposition was pretty wretched and that's no different to Rooney for England. We'd hardly say Rooney was England's greatest would we? He fucked it in pretty much every major tournament. The opposition was "pretty wretched" in the South American WC qualifiers? Are you sure about that?  |
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Post by Roy Cropper on Dec 5, 2019 13:07:31 GMT
He's played 138 times for Argentina and scored 70. Over two a goal every two games. Messi single handedly got them to Russia. He scored 7 in qualifiers including the priceless hat trick in the Ecuador game. The thing is it's not really possible for him to live up to expectations. I'm only saying what the Argentina fans think mate. He got booed by certain sections of their fans in their game against Brazil. He has scored a load of goals in qualifiers but the opposition was pretty wretched and that's no different to Rooney for England. We'd hardly say Rooney was England's greatest would we? He fucked it in pretty much every major tournament. And a section of Real Madrid fans booed Ronaldo. You could argue Ronaldo is as good a goal scorer as Messi (although stats suggest even that isn't true) but in every single other department Messi is far superior. There was a time a few years ago when Ronaldo had the worst shot/shot on target ratio in the Europe's top 5. Ronaldo's hype has always been exaggerated by the fact he "did it in the Prem" and English people's insistence that this means anything at all. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 5, 2019 16:22:20 GMT
I'm only saying what the Argentina fans think mate. He got booed by certain sections of their fans in their game against Brazil. He has scored a load of goals in qualifiers but the opposition was pretty wretched and that's no different to Rooney for England. We'd hardly say Rooney was England's greatest would we? He fucked it in pretty much every major tournament. Isn't their antipathy towards him not massively football related though? Isn't it a Liverpool/Michael Owen type thing of him being unloved because he's not really seen as 'one of them'? It's a bit of both. His attitude for the national team has been appalling recently which hasn't helped but he hasn't performed in the big moments in major tournaments consistently. I remember chatting with some Argentina fans in a bar after they played Qatar and there was a firm belief that Argentina will be a better 'team' when he's gone. I don't watch Argentina enough but I trust these guys do! It all sounds very familiar to Rooney with us. Best player we had by miles yet by simply accommodating him because he was our best player, it massively hindered us. In 2010 it was patently obvious that Crouch and Defoe was the right partnership to go with, but we didn't.. Rooney had to play. |
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Post by sensiblestokie on Dec 5, 2019 16:28:00 GMT
I think Argies didn’t take to Messi because he scores shedloads of goals at Barca and hasn’t quite been as great for Argentina. But to be honest, two finals wasn’t it where he laid the ball to Higuain to win the game and he fluffed his lines?
If them two go in then I’m sure it would be a different story.
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Post by StatesideStokie on Dec 5, 2019 17:54:52 GMT
Consistently poor? Jesus.... I'm saying that from experience speaking to the Argentina fans at major tournaments I've been to over the years. They think he's a real problem (I guess similar to how we felt about Rooney's inclusion simply to accommodate Rooney). Its a big thing out there and the view is resoundingly that Messi doesn't perform consistently for his country and these performances have gradually worsened in the past few years. He was absolutely non existant in Russia in 2018 and last summer in Brazil. 70 goals in 138 games for Argentina. He's their all time top scorer, ahead of both Maradona (34 goals in 91 games) and Batistuta (54 goals in 77 games). He's also got 42 assists for Argentina, meaning he's involved in a goal roughly every 70 minutes. To questions his consistency with that record is fucking bizarre, and I would suggest the Argentine fans you spoke to are talking out of their arses, mate. They might not like him, but there is absolutely no disputing he's the greatest player to ever represent their country. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 18:19:16 GMT
Consistently poor? Jesus.... I'm saying that from experience speaking to the Argentina fans at major tournaments I've been to over the years. They think he's a real problem (I guess similar to how we felt about Rooney's inclusion simply to accommodate Rooney). Its a big thing out there and the view is resoundingly that Messi doesn't perform consistently for his country and these performances have gradually worsened in the past few years. He was absolutely non existant in Russia in 2018 and last summer in Brazil. We had a good portion of Stoke fans who thought Arnie and Shaq were utter wank. A lot of football fans don’t know their arse from their elbow. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 20:15:47 GMT
Messi's won more trophies. He also won 'player of the tournament' at the 2014 world cup. Argentina's all time top scorer... done alright for someone that 'fell to pieces'. He's 29 international goals behind Ronaldo despite being two years younger. You only have to look at Barcelona's record in recent years when he doesn't play, it's woeful. The only thing that's in any way comparable is their goal tally - and Messi wins that one comfortably in terms of goals/game too. He's comfortably better than Ronaldo. Ronaldo started out as a winger, and hasn’t always played for a team that retains 60-80% possession every game. Was told the other day that Rashford has more goals than Ronaldo did at that age. It’s simple not a like for like comparison. They are both immense players who instead of comparing and arguing black and white we should just appreciate how good they both are. Messi Ronaldo Ronaldo Nazario Best Pelé Stan Could go on Each were the goat for their era, but it’s impossible to say which is the greatest because they are all so far ahead of anything else. Not a dig aimed at you just something the winds me up 😂😂😂 Jabberwocky....  Could go on was sooo much better than Stan Collymore |
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Post by JoeinOz on Dec 5, 2019 20:30:14 GMT
I'm saying that from experience speaking to the Argentina fans at major tournaments I've been to over the years. They think he's a real problem (I guess similar to how we felt about Rooney's inclusion simply to accommodate Rooney). Its a big thing out there and the view is resoundingly that Messi doesn't perform consistently for his country and these performances have gradually worsened in the past few years. He was absolutely non existant in Russia in 2018 and last summer in Brazil. 70 goals in 138 games for Argentina. He's their all time top scorer, ahead of both Maradona (34 goals in 91 games) and Batistuta (54 goals in 77 games). He's also got 42 assists for Argentina, meaning he's involved in a goal roughly every 70 minutes. To questions his consistency with that record is fucking bizarre, and I would suggest the Argentine fans you spoke to are talking out of their arses, mate. They might not like him, but there is absolutely no disputing he's the greatest player to ever represent their country. No disputing? There’s one obvious candidate for that status. 😁 |
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Post by StatesideStokie on Dec 5, 2019 21:47:59 GMT
70 goals in 138 games for Argentina. He's their all time top scorer, ahead of both Maradona (34 goals in 91 games) and Batistuta (54 goals in 77 games). He's also got 42 assists for Argentina, meaning he's involved in a goal roughly every 70 minutes. To questions his consistency with that record is fucking bizarre, and I would suggest the Argentine fans you spoke to are talking out of their arses, mate. They might not like him, but there is absolutely no disputing he's the greatest player to ever represent their country. No disputing? There’s one obvious candidate for that status. 😁 The drug cheat? Nah. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Dec 5, 2019 21:54:05 GMT
No disputing? There’s one obvious candidate for that status. 😁 The drug cheat? Nah. The greatest footballer that ever lived. |
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Post by StatesideStokie on Dec 5, 2019 22:50:49 GMT
The greatest footballer that ever lived. He was a fabulous player and is right up there with the very best, but I would take Messi over him every day of the week. Can you imagine them both in the same side? They would take some stopping. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Dec 6, 2019 0:27:15 GMT
The greatest footballer that ever lived. He was a fabulous player and is right up there with the very best, but I would take Messi over him every day of the week. Can you imagine them both in the same side? They would take some stopping. Nobody else would get a kick! |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 6, 2019 11:50:01 GMT
I'm saying that from experience speaking to the Argentina fans at major tournaments I've been to over the years. They think he's a real problem (I guess similar to how we felt about Rooney's inclusion simply to accommodate Rooney). Its a big thing out there and the view is resoundingly that Messi doesn't perform consistently for his country and these performances have gradually worsened in the past few years. He was absolutely non existant in Russia in 2018 and last summer in Brazil. 70 goals in 138 games for Argentina. He's their all time top scorer, ahead of both Maradona (34 goals in 91 games) and Batistuta (54 goals in 77 games). He's also got 42 assists for Argentina, meaning he's involved in a goal roughly every 70 minutes. To questions his consistency with that record is fucking bizarre, and I would suggest the Argentine fans you spoke to are talking out of their arses, mate. They might not like him, but there is absolutely no disputing he's the greatest player to ever represent their country. That's a massive statement. Better than Maradona? Who single handedly (literally) carried his country to World Cup wins, copa America and a hapless Napoli side to being a top European team? Also why would you bring up numbers without context. Rooney scored more goals than anyone in an England shirt, would you really class him as the best English player of all time? He failed in practically every major tournament. |
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Could go on was sooo much better than Stan Collymore
