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Post by jarhead on Dec 2, 2019 22:37:12 GMT
Best player Ever! Genius in-fact.
Ronaldo came 3rd and didn’t attend the ceremony the mard arse.
That’s because the cheat couldn’t Lace Messi’s boots!
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Post by bhp on Dec 2, 2019 22:43:44 GMT
Best player Ever! Genius in-fact. Ronaldo came 3rd and didn’t attend the ceremony the mard arse. That’s because the cheat couldn’t Lace Messi’s boots! Penaldo should be grateful to be that high. Shouldn't be in the top 10
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Post by BraveSirRobin on Dec 2, 2019 22:48:38 GMT
Best player Ever! Genius in-fact. Ronaldo came 3rd and didn’t attend the ceremony the mard arse. That’s because the cheat couldn’t Lace Messi’s boots! Yeah he's really shit isn't he?
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Post by harlequin on Dec 2, 2019 22:55:38 GMT
Peak Ronaldo is better than peak Messi, in my opinion.
When the team wasn't built around him like for Argentina he fell to pieces.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Dec 3, 2019 1:18:49 GMT
Stoke should have one for the players. The Bell End Draw.
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Post by matelot1996 on Dec 3, 2019 1:49:37 GMT
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Post by right on Dec 3, 2019 3:29:02 GMT
The best players of this era. Congrats to Messi winning this year.
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Post by JoeinOz on Dec 3, 2019 3:48:24 GMT
Yeah but he doesn't tackle enough.
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Post by Dr Hesham on Dec 3, 2019 4:06:27 GMT
As this is a prize for the last 1 year so VVD should have won it.
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Post by Rt Hon Reverend Luvpump on Dec 3, 2019 7:29:44 GMT
Played all his career in a dodgy league ion my opinion.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 3, 2019 8:47:50 GMT
Never rated him.
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Post by sensiblestokie on Dec 3, 2019 9:24:36 GMT
Deserved.
I expected it to go to VVD as the Liverpool love in, and the preference to give the best player in the world award to a player who wins the CL. Never got that logic, the best player in the world that year doesn’t have to win the CL to be the best player in the world?
Glad to see he’s won it this year. There is also a few years where he should have won it but didn’t, but happy to see he’s on his own for the number of awards now.
Someone said earlier on here prime Ronaldo is better than prime Messi, I appreciate your opinion. I’m assuming you forgot the 11/12 year of Messi. If we’re talking best seasons then it’s not even close, peak Messi is streets ahead of peak Ronaldo. Although both the greatest players ever imo.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 3, 2019 10:04:14 GMT
Ive seen Messi play live twice. Most recently against Brazil in the summer for Argentina. He was absolutely hapless, couldn't pass to his own teammates, woeful control and useless in front of goal. Before that was in 2014 el classico when Barca lost 3-1 and he was the worst player on the pitch. He played like Tom Ince in disguise. I must be bad luck. His consistently poor performances for Argentina gives Ronaldo the edge for me.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Dec 3, 2019 11:00:35 GMT
Never done it on a wet & windy night in Stoke - meh!!! ;-)
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Post by sensiblestokie on Dec 3, 2019 11:39:08 GMT
Ive seen Messi play live twice. Most recently against Brazil in the summer for Argentina. He was absolutely hapless, couldn't pass to his own teammates, woeful control and useless in front of goal. Before that was in 2014 el classico when Barca lost 3-1 and he was the worst player on the pitch. He played like Tom Ince in disguise. I must be bad luck. His consistently poor performances for Argentina gives Ronaldo the edge for me. Actually, they have a very similar goals to games ratio for internationals. Whilst Ronaldo scored a nice hat trick against Spain, let’s not pretend the majority of the don’t goals come against really really poor sides. I’m unsure really of the sides Messi plays internationally, but are we talking Luxembourg standard etc? Messi now has more club goals than Ronaldo, in over 100 appearances less. I’m Europe he has 14 less goals than Ronny, but almost 35 appearances less. Ronaldo and Messi are fantastic, but I always believed Ronaldos almost 3 years on him was telling. Now he’s slowed down and they are coming to the end, Messi is even taking over goal stats. His all round game is without doubt far superior to Ronaldos, all the people who said Ronaldo said he was a better goal scorer but he’s just not, and by the end of their careers it will be clear to see! People compare Messi to Maradona and Pele, people compare Ronaldo to Messi. I just honestly have never understood how you could ‘get’ football and choose Ronaldo as a better player, for me it’s by a far margin. I look at it like this, how can anyone say Ronaldo is better because of his international record? So we’re judging these two excellent players on what they do against Bolivia and Luxembourg (I think Bolivia are very good at home just an example) rather than against each other, Atletico, Man City, Liverpool etc. Always been such a daft argument for me.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Dec 3, 2019 11:51:11 GMT
One of the greatest criticisms of xG is that it doesn't give credence to better finishers and that better finishers should have a higher xG than their lesser counterparts, it's a fair criticism that is being looked at for the future development of the stat. (They already have weightings in Hockey to account for this)
Despite this, Ronaldo's actually underperformed his xG every season for the past 4-5 years, I think he would have been expected to score 2 more goals than he would have across that period. His xG is obviously high because he gets into great positions and can beat players easily, but his finishing is pretty much what you'd expect for a standard striker. (Because xG is calculated from 100000s of shots from a pool of talent which then average out to a middle of the road player).
Messi on the other hand is outperforming his xG by 30 goals across the last 4 years, which demonstrates he actually is a clinical finisher as he's achieving way beyond what the average striker would do. The man is a freak of nature. For reference, no players has exceeded their xG for 5 consecutive years.
I don't buy the international argument either really, Messi's done a fair bit in an Argentina shirt. He single handedly got them to the last world cup when they were looking nailed on to miss out, Ronaldo's on 16 major tournament goals and Messi's on 15. South American qualifying is a lot harder than UEFA too, there's no Luxembourgs or Liechtenstein, every game is a battle at high altitude and a struggle.
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Post by stokie223 on Dec 3, 2019 12:07:34 GMT
Peak Ronaldo is better than peak Messi, in my opinion. When the team wasn't built around him like for Argentina he fell to pieces. Messi's won more trophies. He also won 'player of the tournament' at the 2014 world cup. Argentina's all time top scorer... done alright for someone that 'fell to pieces'. He's 29 international goals behind Ronaldo despite being two years younger. You only have to look at Barcelona's record in recent years when he doesn't play, it's woeful. The only thing that's in any way comparable is their goal tally - and Messi wins that one comfortably in terms of goals/game too. He's comfortably better than Ronaldo.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 3, 2019 12:08:01 GMT
Peak Ronaldo is better than peak Messi, in my opinion. When the team wasn't built around him like for Argentina he fell to pieces. He got them to a World Cup final
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Post by samstokie1 on Dec 3, 2019 12:10:53 GMT
the arguments people use to say ronaldo is better are so weak
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 3, 2019 12:47:34 GMT
the arguments people use to say ronaldo is better are so weak Not really. He's torn pretty much every major league in Europe to shreds, won a major tournament for his country of which he made a significant contribution and has scored more goals than anyone in champions league history. He has scored massive goals in major international tournaments for a good ten years or so including sending his team to the world Cup in 2014 single handedly with an outrageous hatrick against Sweden, World Cup hatrick against Spain and crucial goals in a European championship which saw Portugal lift the trophy. Some of the Portugal sides he's played in have been utterly atrocious yet he's still been hugely successful. I'd also argue he's a more complete footballer but appreciate that's up for debate.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 3, 2019 12:58:01 GMT
the arguments people use to say ronaldo is better are so weak Not really. He's torn pretty much every major league in Europe to shreds, won a major tournament for his country of which he made a significant contribution and has scored more goals than anyone in champions league history. He has scored massive goals in major international tournaments for a good ten years or so including sending his team to the world Cup in 2014 single handedly with an outrageous hatrick against Sweden, World Cup hatrick against Spain and crucial goals in a European championship which saw Portugal lift the trophy. Some of the Portugal sides he's played in have been utterly atrocious yet he's still been hugely successful. I'd also argue he's a more complete footballer but appreciate that's up for debate. The only two things I'd say Ronaldo is better than Messi at are heading and penalties. And I'm not saying Ronaldo isn't a wonderful footballer, he is, that's merely a counter to the more complete footballer comment.
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Post by steewee on Dec 3, 2019 13:11:31 GMT
Messi is great, no doubt - but he's not a patch on Ronaldo IMO. I think the reason he gets more plaudits is he's a little chap and possibly a bit more likable. Number of reasons for me... He's performed at 4 clubs, consistently and at a highest level. Messi has done it at a purpose built club for his capabilities. We all know that many great players when they move clubs have a mare... Ronaldo has done this.
His international record is better IMO , think he's scored more consistently in competitive matches and also had a much greater impact on actually winning trophies. Argentina arguably have performed much worse with Messi in the side, whilst Ronaldo has carried a much more inferior Portugal.
He's also 2 years older, and still performing. Be interesting to see how Messi declines in the next couple of years....
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Dec 3, 2019 13:23:41 GMT
Messi is great, no doubt - but he's not a patch on Ronaldo IMO. I think the reason he gets more plaudits is he's a little chap and possibly a bit more likable. Number of reasons for me... He's performed at 4 clubs, consistently and at a highest level. Messi has done it at a purpose built club for his capabilities. We all know that many great players when they move clubs have a mare... Ronaldo has done this. His international record is better IMO , think he's scored more consistently in competitive matches and also had a much greater impact on actually winning trophies. Argentina arguably have performed much worse with Messi in the side, whilst Ronaldo has carried a much more inferior Portugal. He's also 2 years older, and still performing. Be interesting to see how Messi declines in the next couple of years.... Argentina absolutely bombed without Messi in 2018 qualifying, they won 1 in 8 games in 2018 before he came back and then won 5 out of 6. To say they play better without Messi is frankly untrue. I don't get this belief that the Argentina national team is miles ahead of Portugal's either, the starting keeper for much of the past decade has been a Man United reserve a Man City reserve or a kid. Their defenders have been mid-table La Liga/Serie A and domestic players and their central midfielders fill the same bracket. They've had stellar strikers and attacking midfielders, that's about it. Just as Portugal had a superb squad in Ronaldo's early years and then it's tailed off to just a couple of really good players. They're very similar teams and both Messi and Ronaldo have lead their team to finals and through qualification when it looked bleak. It should be pointed out that the final Portgual actually won, Ronaldo went off about 25 minutes in.
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Post by harlequin on Dec 3, 2019 13:24:04 GMT
Peak Ronaldo is better than peak Messi, in my opinion. When the team wasn't built around him like for Argentina he fell to pieces. He got them to a World Cup final He got his act together a bit for that tournament, agreed. I've always thought Ronaldo was technically better, with Messi being the better natural player with his agility and feints, if that makes sense. Messi's won more trophies. He also won 'player of the tournament' at the 2014 world cup. Argentina's all time top scorer... done alright for someone that 'fell to pieces'. He's 29 international goals behind Ronaldo despite being two years younger. You only have to look at Barcelona's record in recent years when he doesn't play, it's woeful. The only thing that's in any way comparable is their goal tally - and Messi wins that one comfortably in terms of goals/game too. He's comfortably better than Ronaldo. I didn't say his record was better mate. I'd rather have Ronaldo at the top of his game than Messi at the top of his game in the team.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Dec 3, 2019 13:26:07 GMT
There is no guaranteed, tangible, 100% "x is better or y is better" argument that anyone can put forward.
It's a matter of opinion full stop. In fact, that's how the winner is chosen i.e. the number of votes for a player expressed by people who hold that opinion. There is no right or wrong.
I'm guessing that the people saying "anyone who disagrees that x is better than y, have weak arguments and are just wrong" are the same kind of people that spend hours on instagram bloody arguing over whether Samsumg or iphones are better.
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Post by sneydgreenstokie1 on Dec 3, 2019 13:45:24 GMT
It certainly is a game of opinions. My view, for what it's worth, is that Messi should have tested himself outside of Barcelona. Ronaldo has done it in four seperate leagues cross Europe, with three of those being from the top 5 of the best European countries. It could never be proven of course, but I hold that Ronaldo would have at least matched if not bettered Messi's stats at Barcelona if roles reversed and Messi would not have matched Ronaldo's if their places were swapped.
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 3, 2019 13:50:37 GMT
This is one of those cases where statistics really don't make an ounce of difference to the "debate". No matter how many titles Rafa Nadal wins, everyone knows Federer was better.
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Post by kristoff on Dec 3, 2019 14:15:33 GMT
Peak Ronaldo is better than peak Messi, in my opinion. When the team wasn't built around him like for Argentina he fell to pieces. Messi's won more trophies. He also won 'player of the tournament' at the 2014 world cup. Argentina's all time top scorer... done alright for someone that 'fell to pieces'. He's 29 international goals behind Ronaldo despite being two years younger. You only have to look at Barcelona's record in recent years when he doesn't play, it's woeful. The only thing that's in any way comparable is their goal tally - and Messi wins that one comfortably in terms of goals/game too. He's comfortably better than Ronaldo. Ronaldo started out as a winger, and hasn’t always played for a team that retains 60-80% possession every game. Was told the other day that Rashford has more goals than Ronaldo did at that age. It’s simple not a like for like comparison. They are both immense players who instead of comparing and arguing black and white we should just appreciate how good they both are. Messi Ronaldo Ronaldo Nazario Best Pelé Stan Could go on Each were the goat for their era, but it’s impossible to say which is the greatest because they are all so far ahead of anything else. Not a dig aimed at you just something the winds me up 😂😂😂
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Post by kristoff on Dec 3, 2019 14:32:34 GMT
(null) Meant were heralded as the goat at the time.
😂😂
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Post by wearepremierleague on Dec 3, 2019 14:36:40 GMT
International goals (Only because he’s played more) and one flukey European championship is all Ronaldo fans can cling on to nowadays. Robbie Keane would be better than Rooney and Shearer if that’s the basis used to select the best player.
Messi is streets ahead of everyone , and always has been. More goals, more assists, more trophies. He is undoubtedly the best ever
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