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Post by kidcrewbob on Dec 1, 2019 12:44:40 GMT
3* - persisting with Vokes who couldn't win a header with a step ladder was just mental
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 1, 2019 13:44:00 GMT
There are some we'd make an effort to keep, some we'd rather keep but know we probably can't and others we'd gladly give away. A manager has to have a long term view as well as a game by game strategy. Personally L'd like to see N'Diaye and Etebo playing. However I can understand why O'Neil might not if he has inside knowledge of the situation. For all we know deals may be in place already so why piss off players who remain committed and build a team around players that may not be there for the business end of the season? One game means nothing against the longer team aim is establishing our best 11 for the rest of the season. Fans only see the last/next game. Managers see the season. Hang on, we’re mired in the relegation zone - the long term plan can wait, surely? The long term plan will be dictated by which division we’re in. Not playing our best players is a good way to make sure it’ll be League One. By "long term" I mean avoiding relegation this season. The point I'm making is that the Wigan performance was hailed as a corner turned and heralded posts about a play off push and the performance against Blackburn is being hailed as an absolute disaster indicating certain relegation, The reality is they very similar pretty poor performances and rather than get hung up on individual decisions what matters is sustainable improvement over the rest of the season. Those that didn't want O'Neil are sharpening the knives. The lunatics who thought simply sacking Jones would solve the problems don't get the problems run deeper and a short term over reaction to a bad result is just symptomatic of a having the the time horizon of a concussed goldfish. I'll reserve judgement based on what happens over the rest of the season. If you want my opinion of what I've seen to date then I think we're no better than we were under Jones - if anything we've gone backwards which for me was inevitable - we've got a new manager finding his feet and a set of players learning yet another playing style mid season. I doubt expect to see much genuine improvement until February at the earliest so yesterdays result really doesn't bother me that much. I never expected a new manager bounce and the fact we haven't had one comes as no surprise.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 13:46:37 GMT
Hang on, we’re mired in the relegation zone - the long term plan can wait, surely? The long term plan will be dictated by which division we’re in. Not playing our best players is a good way to make sure it’ll be League One. By "long term" I mean avoiding relegation this season. The point I'm making is that the Wigan performance was hailed as a corner turned and heralded posts about a play off push and the performance against Blackburn is being hailed as an absolute disaster indicating certain relegation, The reality is they very similar pretty poor performances and rather than get hung up on individual decisions what matters is sustainable improvement over the rest of the season. Those that didn't want O'Neil are sharpening the knives. The lunatics who thought simply sacking Jones would solve the problems don't get the problems run deeper and a short term over reaction to a bad result is just symptomatic of a having the the time horizon of a concussed goldfish. I'll reserve judgement based on what happens over the rest of the season. If you want my opinion of what I've seen to date then I think we're no better than we were under Jones - if anything we've gone backwards which for me was inevitable - we've got a new manager finding his feet and a set of players learning yet another playing style mid season. I doubt expect to see much genuine improvement until February at the earliest so yesterdays result really doesn't bother me that much. I never expected a new manager bounce and the fact we haven't had one comes as no surprise. This comes off as your standard rant about how much stupider everyone else is than clever old you. How does our best players not playing help the ‘big picture’ of avoiding relegation?
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Post by hoofmagic on Dec 1, 2019 13:51:25 GMT
1 just for turning up,tean selection just CRAP
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Post by jarhead on Dec 1, 2019 14:07:49 GMT
0 Ridiculous starting 11 and tactics.
Butland -1 CCTV at R/B -3 Ince -1 Vokes up on his own -1 Vokes anyway fat fuck! -1 No Badou -1 No Gregory -1 Changing system for the worse when 1-1 -1
Apart from that bloody great!
This is a MASSIVE week now on the training pitch for Mick!
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Post by cousindupree on Dec 1, 2019 14:20:24 GMT
3 merely for at least going going gung ho with the subs But the starting xi was just about the poorest we've seen since relegation. Two dreadful full backs little no physicality or creativity in midfield. And a simply awful front 3 for a 4-3-3 line up. Another manager who seemingly has to learn from his mistakes quickly
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 1, 2019 15:38:32 GMT
By "long term" I mean avoiding relegation this season. The point I'm making is that the Wigan performance was hailed as a corner turned and heralded posts about a play off push and the performance against Blackburn is being hailed as an absolute disaster indicating certain relegation, The reality is they very similar pretty poor performances and rather than get hung up on individual decisions what matters is sustainable improvement over the rest of the season. Those that didn't want O'Neil are sharpening the knives. The lunatics who thought simply sacking Jones would solve the problems don't get the problems run deeper and a short term over reaction to a bad result is just symptomatic of a having the the time horizon of a concussed goldfish. I'll reserve judgement based on what happens over the rest of the season. If you want my opinion of what I've seen to date then I think we're no better than we were under Jones - if anything we've gone backwards which for me was inevitable - we've got a new manager finding his feet and a set of players learning yet another playing style mid season. I doubt expect to see much genuine improvement until February at the earliest so yesterdays result really doesn't bother me that much. I never expected a new manager bounce and the fact we haven't had one comes as no surprise. This comes off as your standard rant about how much stupider everyone else is than clever old you. How does our best players not playing help the ‘big picture’ of avoiding relegation? Our problem isn't about individual talent - player for player we have one of the strongest squads in the league. The problem is we can't put a decent team together, The Blackburn game is a case in point. In almost every position we had better players than them but they were a far better team. We'll avoid relegation by putting together a set of players who can actually perform well as a team - and that doesn't necessarily mean your best 11 players and it certainly doesn't help if we end up chopping and changing at Xmas because the players we are using are off. Actually I'll withdraw the above - it probably falls foul of you self imposed rules on acceptable levels of stupidity, So by way of translation...Stoke are shit, The manager is shit (whoever he is), The players are shit, Everything is shit. That dim enough for you?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 16:04:21 GMT
This comes off as your standard rant about how much stupider everyone else is than clever old you. How does our best players not playing help the ‘big picture’ of avoiding relegation? Our problem isn't about individual talent - player for player we have one of the strongest squads in the league. The problem is we can't put a decent team together, The Blackburn game is a case in point. In almost every position we had better players than them but they were a far better team. We'll avoid relegation by putting together a set of players who can actually perform well as a team - and that doesn't necessarily mean your best 11 players and it certainly doesn't help if we end up chopping and changing at Xmas because the players we are using are off. Actually I'll withdraw the above - it probably falls foul of you self imposed rules on acceptable levels of stupidity, So by way of translation...Stoke are shit, The manager is shit (whoever he is), The players are shit, Everything is shit. That dim enough for you? Nice of you to finally post something that doesn’t blame the nasty fans for everything, so that’s a plus. We only currently have one proper DM on the books. Picking a balanced team therefore by definition includes picking him if we’re going to play 433. Your best team doesn’t automatically include your best 11 players I agree, but in our case it does because we have so few of them. In the system O’Neil wants to play, it should be Badou, Etebo +1 (probably Clucas).
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Post by fca47 on Dec 1, 2019 16:14:55 GMT
This comes off as your standard rant about how much stupider everyone else is than clever old you. How does our best players not playing help the ‘big picture’ of avoiding relegation? Our problem isn't about individual talent - player for player we have one of the strongest squads in the league. The problem is we can't put a decent team together, The Blackburn game is a case in point. In almost every position we had better players than them but they were a far better team. We'll avoid relegation by putting together a set of players who can actually perform well as a team - and that doesn't necessarily mean your best 11 players and it certainly doesn't help if we end up chopping and changing at Xmas because the players we are using are off. Actually I'll withdraw the above - it probably falls foul of you self imposed rules on acceptable levels of stupidity, So by way of translation...Stoke are shit, The manager is shit (whoever he is), The players are shit, Everything is shit. That dim enough for you? I assume by better you mean more expensive. Ability wise I didn't see the superiority. Just another consequence of our disastrous recruitment of over-priced journeymen.
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Post by Miles Offside on Dec 1, 2019 19:14:51 GMT
That line-up was never going to work. Another home defeat to another bunch of no-marks who were better organised than us.
*3
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Post by GoBoks on Dec 1, 2019 19:36:37 GMT
The Quitter lasted 13 games Kamara lasted 14 games Lambert lasted 15 games However Jock Rutherford only managed 11 games. I suspect O’Neill will soon be joining this elite bunch. Oi March, Cat got your tongue?
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Post by emmbrook1956 on Dec 1, 2019 19:38:17 GMT
I do not understand why CCV is playing Right back. It was obvious that we were going to cross the ball at every opportunity following the comments by MON after the Cardiff game.However after the attempt by CCV in the first half he did not try again. Instead he found Woods who hit crosses from deep positions which was meat and drink for the defenders. Vokes was always up against it with back to goal. I do not understand why Edwards is not playing right back. He would have helped Ince by running into space which CCV was not willing to do. His crossing of balls is not perfect but a vast improvement on anything we have seen in the past two games.
For me MON gets a 6*
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 19:48:16 GMT
A very very fucking generous 2*.
The good bits: Made subs were people needed taking off.
The bad bits: Having to take them off through a really naive at best starting XI.
- It took two games to start playing players out of position. This unequivocally needs to stop.
- CCV is not a Right full back. You have two on in the squad.
- Stephen Ward at LB is a real problem.
- Ryan Woods where he is being played is a real problem and must stop. Even if Ndayie is off, he needs to start.
- 1 up top hasn't worked.
- 1 up top cannot work with Vokes, He should've clocked this after the other night's showing.
- Vokes should be dropped for being fucking shite, Gregory plays that role much better, more intelligently and somehow wins more in the air and retains posession.
- The rate of play was absymal and it was mainly due to Woods playing himself out of the game consistently.
That was as bad as anything I saw under GR or NJ. May as well just go home and not bother if he sets them up and puts them out like that.
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Dec 1, 2019 22:15:33 GMT
6* on another day we could have got something from a game like this but thats just our luck right now, thought we should have tightened up the defense when we equalized and not go so gung ho but it's 1 point dropped while going for all 3. I can see what MON's trying to do and he'll have his first full week of training with the squad this week. FFS though drop Ince, Woods and Vokes, oh and 1 last thing don't ever try BMI at LB again. Gouranga.
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