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Post by mermaidsal on Nov 30, 2019 23:49:29 GMT
Sorry this is so late It's the first chance I've had to post, just been that kind of a day. And that kind of a match too. Def MoN's weakest showing so far altho he's had the best prep time. I'm certainly not freaking, it's all part of bedding in but the new manager bounce is over now, from here we're fighting for every point and moving towards a genuine shape and identity for this football team rather than week to week improvisations. I'm still feeling v positive about that but rating today's managerial performance, tbh not the best - outthought tactically at home, by a well-drilled but not inspired mid-table side and honestly not offering a match-winning edge at any point, imho: 5* from me add * if you were there please
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Post by Gods on Dec 1, 2019 0:16:28 GMT
6* Despite the tsunami of negativity once again we should have got something from today. Having flogged away for 70 long minutes to get an equaliser against an outfit just 4 points from the play-off we finally get one and, bugger me, almost immediately we ship a 2nd goal while going balls out for the winner 16 shots to 6 in out favour tells some kind of story, I get the emotion we want to crucify everyone involved but we should have got a draw today, it's heart breaking that we didn't.
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Post by fca47 on Dec 1, 2019 0:16:32 GMT
3 - terrible starting 11. Chasing the game , and threw the kitchen sink at it for the last 20 minutes but the change to a back three resulted in the winner. Got to get it right from the start.
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Post by chigstoke on Dec 1, 2019 0:18:52 GMT
5*
A bad starting lineup that quite frankly had a throughly shite first half. They started the second better but the subs improved us, and we scored eventually. He seriously needs to go 442 for me at home and have at least Etebo or NDiaye next to Clucas.
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Post by march4 on Dec 1, 2019 0:28:09 GMT
The Quitter lasted 13 games Kamara lasted 14 games Lambert lasted 15 games However Jock Rutherford only managed 11 games.
I suspect O’Neill will soon be joining this elite bunch.
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Post by GoBoks on Dec 1, 2019 0:37:03 GMT
The Quitter lasted 13 games Kamara lasted 14 games Lambert lasted 15 games However Jock Rutherford only managed 11 games. I suspect O’Neill will soon be joining this elite bunch. How many points do you think a new manager should get from their first 4 games? Your hero, TP, managed a grand totasl of 0 from his first 5. Did he join that list of names? The record for a Stoke manager in the past 20 years is Brian Little with 12 from the first 4 games - but he didn't last very long. The next best is 7 from both Johan Boskamp and Mark Hughes. So this is the 4th best start from a new manager in the past 20 years. Please tell me exactly what do you base your logic on to arrive at the conclusion that MONwill be gone before another 11 games have been played?
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Post by The man from Utch on Dec 1, 2019 0:58:21 GMT
6* Despite the tsunami of negativity once again we should have got something from today. Having flogged away for 70 long minutes to get an equaliser against an outfit just 4 points from the play-off we finally get one and, bugger me, almost immediately we ship a 2nd goal while going balls out for the winner 16 shots to 6 in out favour tells some kind of story, I get the emotion we want to crucify everyone involved but we should have got a draw today, it's heart breaking that we didn't. Yes, a draw would have been a fair result, unfortunately the Championship does not know what fair is.
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Post by robwahlmann on Dec 1, 2019 1:04:37 GMT
Shit selection and punished for it.
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Post by mickstupp on Dec 1, 2019 1:38:27 GMT
I like MON but his selections today were dog shit.
CCV, Vokes up front and a frail, piss weak midfield was always going to struggle today.
We can only hope he’s learned from his mistakes
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Post by skip on Dec 1, 2019 2:57:37 GMT
A friend at the game, showing monumental amounts of optimism or self denial, reckons MoN was testing players metal to see who's in and who's out in January. For that, I'lll give him a masochistic 6.
I watched off've the computer* and from the absence of our African midfield warriors to that useful lump up front, to the game itself, I'll give him 3. Not entirely sure what for thinking about.
So, a 4.5 overall.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 7:16:13 GMT
2.
Poor starting line up and ended up playing a very poor shape at the end which cost us the losing goal. He knows Mame Diouf is lacking in match fitness yet ends up with him as a wing back.
He knows Vokes changed the game for the worse at Cardiff yet started with him just four days later.
He is constantly refusing to play our best midfielder, our most physical midfielder yet moans about a lack of physicality.
The football was diabolical hoofball nonsense and we spent most of the match as the home side chasing after Blackburn, who were running rings around us.
Carry on like that and we are nailed on for League One without a shadow of doubt.
A lot of this is harsh. It isn't MONs fault we're in this mess but he has been brought in to get results and quickly.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 1, 2019 7:26:12 GMT
It was 100% car crash sadly. You can only hope he's learned from it. 1/10.
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Post by chayseeoatcake on Dec 1, 2019 7:31:39 GMT
Zero. His master plan was to lump it up to a target man who can’t jump.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 1, 2019 9:23:10 GMT
5 The way I saw it...
O'Neil's still working out his best 11. It's going to take time for him to properly assess what he's got and work it out
For me Etebo and N'Diaye should be playing - but there's a strong possibility both will be gone in January so why build a team around them? Also Etebo may not be fully fit.
It looked to me he tried the same tactic as against Wigan - go 4141, keep it tight, change shape by sacrificing the sitting midfielder in the second half and bring in a second striker to press for the win. In both games the plan went wrong because the defence let him down. Against Wigan we turned it round. Against Blackburn we got exposed going for the win and it backfired. The tactic was fine - the execution was woeful.
Ward had a nightmare and deserved taking off. O'Neil had to go for it - and to be fair we got the equaliser - but by going 3 at the back we were left horribly exposed and Blackburn took advantage. We desperately need a left back (and slightly less urgently a right back) in January.
I thought we were poor against Wigan and got lucky and poor against Blackburn and got unlucky. But we were poor because we're a poor team - not because we have a poor manager. The new manager bounce has got exposed for what it is - a load of old bollocks - and the real qualities of O'Neil will emerge over the rest of this season - not from his first 4 games in charge.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 9:27:43 GMT
6* Despite the tsunami of negativity once again we should have got something from today. Having flogged away for 70 long minutes to get an equaliser against an outfit just 4 points from the play-off we finally get one and, bugger me, almost immediately we ship a 2nd goal while going balls out for the winner 16 shots to 6 in out favour tells some kind of story, I get the emotion we want to crucify everyone involved but we should have got a draw today, it's heart breaking that we didn't. The performance was absolutely dreadful though Gods. They were better than us.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 9:29:44 GMT
5 The way I saw it... O'Neil's still working out his best 11. It's going to take time for him to properly assess what he's got and work it out For me Etebo and N'Diaye should be playing - but there's a strong possibility both will be gone in January so why build a team around them? Also Etebo may not be fully fit. It looked to me he tried the same tactic as against Wigan - go 4141, keep it tight, change shape by sacrificing the sitting midfielder in the second half and bring in a second striker to press for the win. In both games the plan went wrong because the defence let him down. Against Wigan we turned it round. Against Blackburn we got exposed going for the win and it backfired. The tactic was fine - the execution was woeful. Ward had a nightmare and deserved taking off. O'Neil had to go for it - and to be fair we got the equaliser - but by going 3 at the back we were left horribly exposed and Blackburn took advantage. We desperately need a left back (and slightly less urgently a right back) in January. I thought we were poor against Wigan and got lucky and poor against Blackburn and got unlucky. But we were poor because we're a poor team - not because we have a poor manager. The new manager bounce has got exposed for what it is - a load of old bollocks - and the real qualities of O'Neil will emerge over the rest of this season - not from his first 4 games in charge. It’s not a question of building a team around them, it’s more that you give yourself a better chance of winning games when you play your best players. What happens in January is January’s problem - would we keep anyone we got a decent offer for?
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 1, 2019 9:30:46 GMT
6* Despite the tsunami of negativity once again we should have got something from today. Having flogged away for 70 long minutes to get an equaliser against an outfit just 4 points from the play-off we finally get one and, bugger me, almost immediately we ship a 2nd goal while going balls out for the winner 16 shots to 6 in out favour tells some kind of story, I get the emotion we want to crucify everyone involved but we should have got a draw today, it's heart breaking that we didn't. The performance was absolutely dreadful though Gods. They were better than us. The table suggests all but one in the league are better than us.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 1, 2019 9:42:31 GMT
Only just seen this? God this club is cancerous isn't it.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 9:46:09 GMT
The performance was absolutely dreadful though Gods. They were better than us. The table suggests all but one in the league are better than us. But you can be the better team on the day. We weren’t. We deserved shit all.
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Post by Gods on Dec 1, 2019 9:58:53 GMT
6* Despite the tsunami of negativity once again we should have got something from today. Having flogged away for 70 long minutes to get an equaliser against an outfit just 4 points from the play-off we finally get one and, bugger me, almost immediately we ship a 2nd goal while going balls out for the winner 16 shots to 6 in out favour tells some kind of story, I get the emotion we want to crucify everyone involved but we should have got a draw today, it's heart breaking that we didn't. The performance was absolutely dreadful though Gods. They were better than us. Yes that's true, they looked much sharper than us, it's just the frustration of having appeared to have stolen a point with 10 minutes on the clock to piss it away chasing all 3 with Diouf on the pitch believing it could be Wigan all over again was gutting.
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Post by RAF on Dec 1, 2019 10:04:06 GMT
2
Utter Toss.
H
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 1, 2019 10:14:34 GMT
5 The way I saw it... O'Neil's still working out his best 11. It's going to take time for him to properly assess what he's got and work it out For me Etebo and N'Diaye should be playing - but there's a strong possibility both will be gone in January so why build a team around them? Also Etebo may not be fully fit. It looked to me he tried the same tactic as against Wigan - go 4141, keep it tight, change shape by sacrificing the sitting midfielder in the second half and bring in a second striker to press for the win. In both games the plan went wrong because the defence let him down. Against Wigan we turned it round. Against Blackburn we got exposed going for the win and it backfired. The tactic was fine - the execution was woeful. Ward had a nightmare and deserved taking off. O'Neil had to go for it - and to be fair we got the equaliser - but by going 3 at the back we were left horribly exposed and Blackburn took advantage. We desperately need a left back (and slightly less urgently a right back) in January. I thought we were poor against Wigan and got lucky and poor against Blackburn and got unlucky. But we were poor because we're a poor team - not because we have a poor manager. The new manager bounce has got exposed for what it is - a load of old bollocks - and the real qualities of O'Neil will emerge over the rest of this season - not from his first 4 games in charge. It’s not a question of building a team around them, it’s more that you give yourself a better chance of winning games when you play your best players. What happens in January is January’s problem - would we keep anyone we got a decent offer for? There are some we'd make an effort to keep, some we'd rather keep but know we probably can't and others we'd gladly give away. A manager has to have a long term view as well as a game by game strategy. Personally L'd like to see N'Diaye and Etebo playing. However I can understand why O'Neil might not if he has inside knowledge of the situation. For all we know deals may be in place already so why piss off players who remain committed and build a team around players that may not be there for the business end of the season? One game means nothing against the longer team aim is establishing our best 11 for the rest of the season. Fans only see the last/next game. Managers see the season.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 10:18:14 GMT
It’s not a question of building a team around them, it’s more that you give yourself a better chance of winning games when you play your best players. What happens in January is January’s problem - would we keep anyone we got a decent offer for? There are some we'd make an effort to keep, some we'd rather keep but know we probably can't and others we'd gladly give away. A manager has to have a long term view as well as a game by game strategy. Personally L'd like to see N'Diaye and Etebo playing. However I can understand why O'Neil might not if he has inside knowledge of the situation. For all we know deals may be in place already so why piss off players who remain committed and build a team around players that may not be there for the business end of the season? One game means nothing against the longer team aim is establishing our best 11 for the rest of the season. Fans only see the last/next game. Managers see the season. Hang on, we’re mired in the relegation zone - the long term plan can wait, surely? The long term plan will be dictated by which division we’re in. Not playing our best players is a good way to make sure it’ll be League One.
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Post by maninasuitcase on Dec 1, 2019 10:22:34 GMT
3*
Talk about a total opposite to MONs first game against Barnsley.
A completely lifeless performance from a team devoid of anything.
How we scored was a miracle but to then throw it away was Stoke in a nutshell.
Totally agree with other posters about Etebo and Badou. Why aren't they playing? Surely even with our woeful strikers if they are presented with enough chances the law of averages says we'll score one or two. By not playing them we have effectively reduced our chances to zero.
As for the defence we may as well play a 2-6-2 formation.
All in all dreadful, and the manager needs to learn quickly from his mistakes.
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Post by OldStokie on Dec 1, 2019 10:39:38 GMT
2 from me. I don't buy into this bullshit that because Badou and Etebo will be gone in the window they shouldn't be playing. We need points now and playing those two are our best way of getting them. When we equalised he should have rejigged and gone a 4-4-2 and tried at least to take a point. Going gung ho and leaving ourselves open at the back was stupid. This is not hindsight. It's bloody common sense.
OS.
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Post by pavel on Dec 1, 2019 11:03:41 GMT
5- for his starting line up but I suspect he was trying to do the absolute basics with this team, a simple, simple game plan and relying on experience, but the team couldn't even execute this simplest of plans. Hopefully O'Neil now knows he got to jettison all idea's that this squad is too good to go down and he needs to think outside the box.
I wasn't at the game and couldn't stream it so I can't comment on the failings, hence a middle of the road 5 and seeing it's only his 4th game in charge but as soon as I saw the starting line up my heart sank, no pace, no width and Vokes up front. Defence, midfield and attack was a car crash in the making and so it proved to be.
Midfield should be fixable with Badou and Etebo in and I would be inclined to have them sitting with Powell or Woods in front of them, that should give us a platform and shield and have some passing ability/guile as well, perhaps Duffy could play the role too. I know I'm leaving Allen and Clucas out but we must play our best two midfielders and also have someone who can pass a ball as well and link with the front three.
Defence is an absolute minefield and horror show, I cant think of any combination that appeals. Edwards or Smith at right back, left back is a bonkers choice whatever we do but I would probably go for Clucas, another square peg in a round hole but I can't think of anything else. We cant keep playing BMI and Batth, they just don't work together but cant see an alternative until Shawcross is fit and would then go Shawcross and Batth (it worked before) or Shawcross and Collins but who knows if Shawcross will be anywhere near the old Shawcross when he comes back.
If the defence was a horror show I'm at a loss to think what the front 3 are and what we can do here. McClean would be a shoe in (I never though I would say that about such a limited player), Hogan up top and Gregory for his runs and energy, with backup from Campbell and Duffy and Diouf when fit who would probably be first choice up front, which shows the mess we are in. to think we once had Bojan, Arnie and Shaq just a few years ago!
Short term we can fix the midfield, but can we keep Etebo and Badou but the rest of the team needs open heart surgery and a quadruple bypass, it's that bad. So I'll give O'Neil some slack for his team today but the mistake mustn't be repeated.
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Post by franklin66 on Dec 1, 2019 11:10:54 GMT
I'm not sure it's fair he's on a hiding to nothing I'm sure he's trying to pick a winning team but the players just dont have the will and fight its sickening to see. There are few if any of the players performing we just dont have 11 players in the squad who want to play and fight. Different team different formation same results capitulation and roll over.I'm sure some will mention he picks the team so it's his fault but what's he picking from somebody wants to start smashing a few faces in amongst that squad they are taking the piss and need pulling up.
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Post by Waggy on Dec 1, 2019 12:19:09 GMT
I like MON but his selections today were dog shit. CCV, Vokes up front and a frail, piss weak midfield was always going to struggle today. We can only hope he’s learned from his mistakes Agree i hope he has learnt that some players playing together do not work. Maybe individually they can do it and he saw that in training but some together do not bounce off each other. I hope and think MON will come good. He needs more than 4 games from what i have read some posters on here.
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Post by stokemark on Dec 1, 2019 12:23:51 GMT
I saw nothing that gave me any hope whatsoever so 2*
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Post by loosestools on Dec 1, 2019 12:34:59 GMT
0 from me. Wretched team selection and Sunday League tactics. Play Vokes as a target man, McLean and Ince to supply crosses, so what do the opposition do - yep, cut the supply line. Nothing in the middle of park to create anything else. No time to experiment, results required ASAP.
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