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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 11:21:25 GMT
Surely the best way to get good money for him is to get him in the shop window rather than squirreling him away? What if a deal has already been agreed ? Then why is Etebo driving off in a huff telling people he’s fit?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 11:24:27 GMT
What if a deal has already been agreed ? Then why is Etebo driving off in a huff telling people he’s fit? maybe his cheese n bacon oatcake was cold.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 11:26:33 GMT
First, the manager seems set on a 433. You can’t really play that effectively without a holding midfielder. Badou is the only one we have. You don’t want your holding midfielder harrying high up the pitch, you want him to be disciplined. Which he has been. Woods is more of a deep lying playmaker. If he’s playing a possession based system then retention and passing qualities are more important. Woods has that over Badou. None of our midfielders are capable of ‘pass and interchange’. Allen yesterday frequently nicked the ball and then immediately passed it straight to one of their players. It wasn’t on display much yesterday but has been in previous games. Particularly the lead up to Clucas’s second goal at Barnsley. ‘Drive with the ball and lay it off’ seems like an inherently sensible strategy. Why wouldn’t we want to do that, especially in this system? Because it’s not what he’s looking for currently, it’s sensible but it’s a different style. We were told MON was a sensible pragmatist who knew how to play to the strengths of what he’d got at his disposal. What you’re laying out sounds like almost the opposite of that. Not really. He’s selected a style based on the attributes of the majority of the midfielders rather than our best technically, because they might not be here long and our very best has shown flagrant disloyalty. Just to reiterate, he’s decided on a style that eschews all physicality and is in effect playing without a proper holding midfielder at a time when we’re incapable of keeping a clean sheet. That isn’t sensible, it’s madness. “It’s not what he’s looking for”? He’s daft then, isn’t he? Play Woods if you want to but play him alongside Badou. We can’t afford to leave the backdoor open by not playing a physical, tackling, mobile holding midfielder. There wasn’t much evidence of a ‘possession based system” yesterday (you don’t start Sam Vokes if that’s what you’re looking for). I’d also suggest being wary about using a win over Barnsley, the only team worse than us, as a template for the future, because yesterday suggested better teams are going to see straight through that. Even Barnsley scores twice. Ndiaye’s commitment on the field can’t be questioned and given our position surely that’s all that matters?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 11:27:27 GMT
Surely the best way to get good money for him is to get him in the shop window rather than squirreling him away? Somebody might have seen all they need to - put a number on it we like / can’t refuse and nobody want to risk it going tits up ? Etebo’s reaction yesterday suggests that isn’t the case?
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Post by harlequin on Dec 1, 2019 11:30:19 GMT
Woods is more of a deep lying playmaker. If he’s playing a possession based system then retention and passing qualities are more important. Woods has that over Badou. It wasn’t on display much yesterday but has been in previous games. Particularly the lead up to Clucas’s second goal at Barnsley. Because it’s not what he’s looking for currently, it’s sensible but it’s a different style. Not really. He’s selected a style based on the attributes of the majority of the midfielders rather than our best technically, because they might not be here long and our very best has shown flagrant disloyalty. Just to reiterate, he’s decided on a style that eschews all physicality and is in effect playing without a proper holding midfielder at a time when we’re incapable of keeping a clean sheet. That isn’t sensible, it’s madness. “It’s not what he’s looking for”? He’s daft then, isn’t he? Play Woods if you want to but play him alongside Badou. We can’t afford to leave the backdoor open by not playing a physical, tackling, mobile holding midfielder. There wasn’t much evidence of a ‘possession based system” yesterday (you don’t start Sam Vokes if that’s what you’re looking for). I’d also suggest being wary about using a win over Barnsley, the only team worse than us, as a template for the future, because yesterday suggested better teams are going to see straight through that. Even Barnsley scores twice. Ndiaye’s commitment on the field can’t be questioned and given our position surely that’s all that matters? Not eschews all physicality but takes precedence over pure defensive contributions. Woods isn't as good as Badou defensively but he's not inept.
I question Ndiayes commitment whenever he has a bad game. "Is he downing tools this time, because we know he does that."
Vokes left me scratching my head as well.
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Post by serpico on Dec 1, 2019 11:30:33 GMT
It’s crazy to leave Badou and Etebo out, I don’t know what his thinking is ? Badou has been THE stand out player since he’s come back in from the wilderness, ask any fan who they think has been our best player this season and I’d imagine 9 out of 10 would say badou (admittedly not much competition) why the heck has he brought woods back ?
I’d like us to try a simple 442, especially at home.
Ince.....badou....etebo....McClean
....... Gregory..... Diouf..............
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Post by serpico on Dec 1, 2019 11:32:56 GMT
You can forgive O’Neill some things, nobody was expecting miracles from a new manager, but dropping obvious bollocks like this leaves him fair game for criticism.
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Post by wuzza on Dec 1, 2019 11:44:49 GMT
Somebody might have seen all they need to - put a number on it we like / can’t refuse and nobody want to risk it going tits up ? Etebo’s reaction yesterday suggests that isn’t the case? Who knows - what goes on at a football club and what ‘games’ people are playing is never straight forward. I would imagine some of the stuff that has happened and is happening at SCFC would astonish us.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 12:19:56 GMT
Just to reiterate, he’s decided on a style that eschews all physicality and is in effect playing without a proper holding midfielder at a time when we’re incapable of keeping a clean sheet. That isn’t sensible, it’s madness. “It’s not what he’s looking for”? He’s daft then, isn’t he? Play Woods if you want to but play him alongside Badou. We can’t afford to leave the backdoor open by not playing a physical, tackling, mobile holding midfielder. There wasn’t much evidence of a ‘possession based system” yesterday (you don’t start Sam Vokes if that’s what you’re looking for). I’d also suggest being wary about using a win over Barnsley, the only team worse than us, as a template for the future, because yesterday suggested better teams are going to see straight through that. Even Barnsley scores twice. Ndiaye’s commitment on the field can’t be questioned and given our position surely that’s all that matters? Not eschews all physicality but takes precedence over pure defensive contributions. Woods isn't as good as Badou defensively but he's not inept. I question Ndiayes commitment whenever he has a bad game. "Is he downing tools this time, because we know he does that." Vokes left me scratching my head as well.
Badou isn't purely defensive though, he is capable of getting us up the pitch, which Woods isn't. Also, 'purely' defensive contributions are surely more important given that's what the time's primary weakness is? Badou's bad games have been few and far between - his commitment has been no worse than anyone else's, including Woods who couldn't even be arsed to track the game's most dangerous player yesterday?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 12:21:20 GMT
Etebo’s reaction yesterday suggests that isn’t the case? Who knows - what goes on at a football club and what ‘games’ people are playing is never straight forward. I would imagine some of the stuff that has happened and is happening at SCFC would astonish us. I'm just a bit dumbfounded as to why people are straining for some fairly outlandish explanations based on very little rather than laying it at the manager's door when he picks the team?
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Post by harlequin on Dec 1, 2019 12:52:13 GMT
Not eschews all physicality but takes precedence over pure defensive contributions. Woods isn't as good as Badou defensively but he's not inept. I question Ndiayes commitment whenever he has a bad game. "Is he downing tools this time, because we know he does that." Vokes left me scratching my head as well.
Badou isn't purely defensive though, he is capable of getting us up the pitch, which Woods isn't. Also, 'purely' defensive contributions are surely more important given that's what the time's primary weakness is? Badou's bad games have been few and far between - his commitment has been no worse than anyone else's, including Woods who couldn't even be arsed to track the game's most dangerous player yesterday? Good points. I still don't think not playing him or Etebo is particularly heinous though, which has largely been the reaction.
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Post by wuzza on Dec 1, 2019 13:06:09 GMT
Who knows - what goes on at a football club and what ‘games’ people are playing is never straight forward. I would imagine some of the stuff that has happened and is happening at SCFC would astonish us. I'm just a bit dumbfounded as to why people are straining for some fairly outlandish explanations based on very little rather than laying it at the manager's door when he picks the team?[/quote Normally I would agree but there are a few few factors here that take you down the path of ‘more to this than meets the eye’. The loss of these players has been on the cards for months and I would have said is now more probable than improbable and therefore not all that outlandish.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 13:24:11 GMT
Badou isn't purely defensive though, he is capable of getting us up the pitch, which Woods isn't. Also, 'purely' defensive contributions are surely more important given that's what the time's primary weakness is? Badou's bad games have been few and far between - his commitment has been no worse than anyone else's, including Woods who couldn't even be arsed to track the game's most dangerous player yesterday? Good points. I still don't think not playing him or Etebo is particularly heinous though, which has largely been the reaction. You don't think the lack of midfield physicality in a team leaking goals is going to be an issue?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 13:25:45 GMT
I'm just a bit dumbfounded as to why people are straining for some fairly outlandish explanations based on very little rather than laying it at the manager's door when he picks the team?[/quote Normally I would agree but there are a few few factors here that take you down the path of ‘more to this than meets the eye’. The loss of these players has been on the cards for months and I would have said is now more probable than improbable and therefore not all that outlandish. There's a distinct possibility both could go in January, which is why we need them in the team to try and get points on the board before then. I can't see an argument for not playing our best players, nothing is going to be worse for our financial situation than relegation, surely?
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Post by hoofmagic on Dec 1, 2019 13:35:42 GMT
With all the money st Peter's got , why oh why set manager's on who aint got a clue, it's a joke.
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Post by harlequin on Dec 1, 2019 14:07:44 GMT
Good points. I still don't think not playing him or Etebo is particularly heinous though, which has largely been the reaction. You don't think the lack of midfield physicality in a team leaking goals is going to be an issue? Yes, but yesterdays horror show can potentially be solved in other ways. I'm not sure if there's a strong causal link between not playing a physical DM like Badou and conceding. For instance Badou physicality didn't stop us leaking goals at Nottingham, Huddersfield, Sheffield Wednesday, Millwall or West Brom. You could argue he's not responsible for the team making mistakes but exactly the same argument applies to Woods.
I'd rather we focus on the movement and involvement of the forwards and the defending of the back line.
Getting a bit meta for me and I don't like posting this much anyway
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 14:13:20 GMT
You don't think the lack of midfield physicality in a team leaking goals is going to be an issue? Yes, but yesterdays horror show can be potentially be solved in other ways. I'm not sure if there's a strong causal link between not playing a physical DM like Badou and conceding. For instance Badou physicality didn't stop us leaking goals at Nottingham, Huddersfield, Sheffield Wednesday, Millwall or West Brom. You could argue he's not responsible for the team making mistakes but exactly the same argument applies to Woods.
I'd rather we focus on the movement and involvement of the forwards and the defending of the back line.
Getting a bit meta for me and I don't like posting this much anyway It didn’t, but both were at least performing well and gave us some presence, which we don’t have now. What’s the argument for not starting them? What’s the worst that can happen?
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Post by cheadlestokie on Dec 1, 2019 14:16:44 GMT
I think you will find they will both be in at Hull
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Post by harlequin on Dec 1, 2019 14:41:03 GMT
Yes, but yesterdays horror show can be potentially be solved in other ways. I'm not sure if there's a strong causal link between not playing a physical DM like Badou and conceding. For instance Badou physicality didn't stop us leaking goals at Nottingham, Huddersfield, Sheffield Wednesday, Millwall or West Brom. You could argue he's not responsible for the team making mistakes but exactly the same argument applies to Woods.
I'd rather we focus on the movement and involvement of the forwards and the defending of the back line.
Getting a bit meta for me and I don't like posting this much anyway It didn’t, but both were at least performing well and gave us some presence, which we don’t have now. What’s the argument for not starting them? What’s the worst that can happen? True, I'm confident he'll change tactics if his current tactics doesn't work this game or the next though and that'll hopefully see their return.
I'm more concerned he made comments to the effect of "his coach has worked with premier league players and can recognize what good looks like", Vokes waltzes into the team, puts in another abject performance and his after match interview he was quite warm describing how he played.
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Post by wuzza on Dec 1, 2019 15:05:29 GMT
There's a distinct possibility both could go in January, which is why we need them in the team to try and get points on the board before then. I can't see an argument for not playing our best players, nothing is going to be worse for our financial situation than relegation, surely? Again I agree but I am guessing that ONeill may be thinking that the others players should be good enough and he wants the long term benefit of a settled team ASAP. A fully functioning Allen, Woods and Clucas would in most outsiders expectations be up to the task - heaven knows why they aren’t.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 1, 2019 15:53:55 GMT
Its impossible to look beyond the obvious conclusion that they have been pre-sold. Probably to clubs in this country so we can get cold hard cash rather than the usual nonsense loan deals with Turkish clubs. ONeill probably doesn’t want to start all over again in Jan having to rebuild a side with what is left over so he’s trying to establish the remnants of our midfield resources now. At least his eyes will be opened to their limitations. Jan is not going to be the saviour that some imagine - in fact it could drive the nail even deeper into our coffin. It’s actually perfectly possible to believe that we’ve appointed a manager used to managing players desperate to play for N Ireland as they Struggle in the back waters of the game recognising and managing players of far greater talent and ego very very different that’s more likely than the club telling him not to play it’s two best assets for 2 months and risking relegation in the process
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 16:01:02 GMT
Again I agree but I am guessing that ONeill may be thinking that the others players should be good enough and he wants the long term benefit of a settled team ASAP. A fully functioning Allen, Woods and Clucas would in most outsiders expectations be up to the task - heaven knows why they aren’t. Allen hasn’t been for a while though and Woods was never going to be a proper holding midfielder as he isn’t physical enough. It’s the wrong blend. If, again, we’re talking about your midfield needing a cruncher, buzzer and spreader, there’s no cruncher in that side. We’re wide open because Allen leaves gaps with his headless chicken routine that Woods either can’t or won’t plug.
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Post by wuzza on Dec 1, 2019 16:10:23 GMT
Allen hasn’t been for a while though and Woods was never going to be a proper holding midfielder as he isn’t physical enough. It’s the wrong blend. If, again, we’re talking about your midfield needing a cruncher, buzzer and spreader, there’s no cruncher in that side. We’re wide open because Allen leaves gaps with his headless chicken routine that Woods either can’t or won’t plug. Glenn Whelan’s don’t grow on trees eh ! All that you say is correct but you’ve seen a lot more of these jokers than Mr O’Neill has - reality will be dawning on him after every game. It’s only his 4th game so I suppose we need to cut him a bit of slack. (and truth be told we have even bigger problems at the back and up front 😱)
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Post by wuzza on Dec 1, 2019 16:16:08 GMT
Its impossible to look beyond the obvious conclusion that they have been pre-sold. Probably to clubs in this country so we can get cold hard cash rather than the usual nonsense loan deals with Turkish clubs. ONeill probably doesn’t want to start all over again in Jan having to rebuild a side with what is left over so he’s trying to establish the remnants of our midfield resources now. At least his eyes will be opened to their limitations. Jan is not going to be the saviour that some imagine - in fact it could drive the nail even deeper into our coffin. It’s actually perfectly possible to believe that we’ve appointed a manager used to managing players desperate to play for N Ireland as they Struggle in the back waters of the game recognising and managing players of far greater talent and ego very very different that’s more likely than the club telling him not to play it’s two best assets for 2 months and risking relegation in the process Those were always going to be the risks with the appointment but it’s far too early to say things haven’t worked out yet. He sounds as though he knows what he is doing so let’s sit back and wait to see what happens in the next couple of months.
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Post by BuckRogers on Dec 1, 2019 16:27:18 GMT
Allen Woods& Clucas just don't work together . They all very similar . Non of them got any pace. Non of them run with the ball at defenders and create chances or get stuck in. Only one of them should be in the starting line up( if needed) The other two on the bench or at home.
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 1, 2019 18:13:36 GMT
And that's a nothing statement. Why don't you actually counter what I said with something credible? Badou and Etebo are our two best players, yet O'Neill has got one of them on the bench and the other one can't even make that. Why is he making those choices? What's credible about stating O'Neil doesn't know what he is doing? No one in football would say that, only silly boys behind keyboards with a preconceived agenda about a manager who they think isn't committed to the job. Nobody knows what's going on with the players. Etebo has been injured and has had a child - is he fit? Is he prepared? Badou - decent player, clearly a wanker.
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Post by wrexhamstokie90 on Dec 1, 2019 18:17:18 GMT
I'd like to think its MON's last look at Woods and Allen .. and Ince and .. etc, before the club decide their value (?!!?) or rather what to except, for the wheeler dealings in January. - Hopefully your right there’s no battle in any of them at all
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Post by Miles Offside on Dec 1, 2019 18:44:41 GMT
I’d like us to try a simple 442, especially at home. Ince.....badou....etebo....McClean ....... Gregory..... Diouf.............. That's exactly what we need - or even Tom Edwards on the right of midfield instead of Ince.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 21:56:27 GMT
And that's a nothing statement. Why don't you actually counter what I said with something credible? Badou and Etebo are our two best players, yet O'Neill has got one of them on the bench and the other one can't even make that. Why is he making those choices? What's credible about stating O'Neil doesn't know what he is doing? No one in football would say that, only silly boys behind keyboards with a preconceived agenda about a manager who they think isn't committed to the job. Nobody knows what's going on with the players. Etebo has been injured and has had a child - is he fit? Is he prepared? Badou - decent player, clearly a wanker. Who cares if Badou’s a wanker? We had an abundance of them starting yesterday. On the pitch he’s been one of the most committed and interested players we’ve got.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Dec 1, 2019 23:14:28 GMT
Woods as a lone holding midfielder?
Badou not in the side?
Etebo not on the bench?
Don't do this Michael. Please don't be another Lambert/Rowett/Jones. We are desperate for someone to be sensible
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