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Post by Pugsley on Dec 1, 2019 8:55:10 GMT
Literally everyone wants to know the answer to this question... And the more I contemplate it, the less it makes sense. MON is either thinking they will be gone anyway so don't bother (which makes no sense as we need points by any means necessary plus it's good for the shop window effect), or he hasn't got a clue. Which is more likely? The logical explanation is just saddening I think it's almost certainly the logical explanation Nick ... O'Neill hasn't got a clue what he's doing.
No way have the club from the get go, instructed him on who he can and can't pick. If our new manager can't recognise who our two best players are (and by a huge margin), then it's looking pretty bleak for us going forwards, isn't it? Laughable statement.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 1, 2019 9:16:38 GMT
We've somehow managed to fuck up so badly that we will have to get rid of a player that was raved about in the World Cup.
We couldn't even get a few seasons out of him. Well done to all concerned.
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Post by wolfinsheepsclothing on Dec 1, 2019 9:16:49 GMT
It’s certainly odd, as both have applied themselves well when played??
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Post by badger1863 on Dec 1, 2019 9:22:17 GMT
Our midfield lacks and sort of physical presence, both Allen and Woods are easily pushed off the ball and clucas isn't exactly Roy Keane.
The decision to leave Etobo and Badou is baffling both are easily better than the 3 current playing.
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 1, 2019 9:28:51 GMT
We've somehow managed to fuck up so badly that we will have to get rid of a player that was raved about in the World Cup. We couldn't even get a few seasons out of him. Well done to all concerned. He ain't that good.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 9:30:47 GMT
We've somehow managed to fuck up so badly that we will have to get rid of a player that was raved about in the World Cup. We couldn't even get a few seasons out of him. Well done to all concerned. He ain't that good. He’s a better box to box midfielder than anyone else we’ve currently got. Ndiaye is a better holding midfielder than anyone we’ve got.
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Post by sportsman on Dec 1, 2019 9:32:47 GMT
Both should be playing but both probably aren't because both will be gone within weeks.
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Post by Trouserdog on Dec 1, 2019 9:37:29 GMT
It's bizarre this...absolutely bizarre.
At first I thought there might be something going on behind the scenes with both players- that perhaps they'd got wind of moves in January and had requested not to be used until then. That, apparently, is NOT the case.
That leaves us then with 2 scenarios, neither of which is good:
1) The board have deals lined up for both and have instructed the manager not to play them as they're desperate for the cash in order to meet FFP.
2) The manager thinks that Ryan Woods is a better player than Badou Ndiaye and Peter Etebo.
if it's number 2 then he'd better get that idea out of his head by the next game or I'll already be doubting whether he knows what he's doing.
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Post by wuzza on Dec 1, 2019 9:40:53 GMT
Its impossible to look beyond the obvious conclusion that they have been pre-sold. Probably to clubs in this country so we can get cold hard cash rather than the usual nonsense loan deals with Turkish clubs. ONeill probably doesn’t want to start all over again in Jan having to rebuild a side with what is left over so he’s trying to establish the remnants of our midfield resources now. At least his eyes will be opened to their limitations. Jan is not going to be the saviour that some imagine - in fact it could drive the nail even deeper into our coffin. Badou started on Tuesday night though Wuzza? True. I forgot that he did. I don’t know then - it’s hard to get your head around the concept he reckons certain players are better.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 1, 2019 9:41:44 GMT
It's bizarre this...absolutely bizarre. At first I thought there might be something going on behind the scenes with both players- that perhaps they'd got wind of moves in January and had requested not to be used until then. That, apparently, is NOT the case. That leaves us then with 2 scenarios, neither of which is good: 1) The board have deals lined up for both and have instructed the manager not to play them as they're desperate for the cash in order to meet FFP. 2) The manager thinks that Ryan Woods is a better player than Badou Ndiaye and Peter Etebo. if it's number 2 then he'd better get that idea out of his head by the next game or I'll already be doubting whether he knows what he's doing. The first may be right. Scholes was on about FFP in the half time break on Radio Stoke. We don't hear from him often, do we?
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Post by FullerMagic on Dec 1, 2019 9:42:15 GMT
It's bizarre this...absolutely bizarre. At first I thought there might be something going on behind the scenes with both players- that perhaps they'd got wind of moves in January and had requested not to be used until then. That, apparently, is NOT the case. That leaves us then with 2 scenarios, neither of which is good: 1) The board have deals lined up for both and have instructed the manager not to play them as they're desperate for the cash in order to meet FFP. 2) The manager thinks that Ryan Woods is a better player than Badou Ndiaye and Peter Etebo. if it's number 2 then he'd better get that idea out of his head by the next game or I'll already be doubting whether he knows what he's doing. If he hasn't immediately clocked that they're on a different level to Allen and Woods, it's a massive concern. He's another who has been predisposed to worship at the altar of the church of St. Joseph Allen from day one, regardless of what his eyes are telling him. He seems a very bright bloke, but just hope he isn't a British is Best merchant. Just what information is Delap feeding them about Etebo? Rory should be saying 'you're getting this badly wrong on Etebo'
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Dec 1, 2019 9:42:52 GMT
It's bizarre this...absolutely bizarre. At first I thought there might be something going on behind the scenes with both players- that perhaps they'd got wind of moves in January and had requested not to be used until then. That, apparently, is NOT the case. That leaves us then with 2 scenarios, neither of which is good: 1) The board have deals lined up for both and have instructed the manager not to play them as they're desperate for the cash in order to meet FFP. 2) The manager thinks that Ryan Woods is a better player than Badou Ndiaye and Peter Etebo. if it's number 2 then he'd better get that idea out of his head by the next game or I'll already be doubting whether he knows what he's doing. I don't think we'd let FFP dictate to us like that, I think we will spend in January to try and get out of this. O'Neill had a meeting with a group of hand-picked senior professionals on his first day didn't he and immediately brought Woods, Diouf, Ward in from the cold. I think he's been trying to play in a way the players want to play. He's got it wrong though. Bruno, Ward, Ince and Woods in particular have let him down.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 9:43:06 GMT
It's bizarre this...absolutely bizarre. At first I thought there might be something going on behind the scenes with both players- that perhaps they'd got wind of moves in January and had requested not to be used until then. That, apparently, is NOT the case. That leaves us then with 2 scenarios, neither of which is good: 1) The board have deals lined up for both and have instructed the manager not to play them as they're desperate for the cash in order to meet FFP. 2) The manager thinks that Ryan Woods is a better player than Badou Ndiaye and Peter Etebo. if it's number 2 then he'd better get that idea out of his head by the next game or I'll already be doubting whether he knows what he's doing. The first may be right. Scholes was on about FFP in the half time break on Radio Stoke. We don't hear from him often, do we? It didn’t stop him playing Badou on Tuesday though?
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Post by chiswickpotter on Dec 1, 2019 9:43:45 GMT
Nathan blew smoke up Badou's arse too while at the same time for the most part not playing him. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "That kid, for me, is a top, top player. His attitude, he said something the other day I’ve never heard a footballer say, which I won’t repeat, and I thought wow, he’s something special.’ “He’s a leader. He’s a lion in there. He goes hunting people down, he wins the ball, he comes away with it and leads his team, leads by example. "He don’t say much, but what he does, he leads and his actions say everything you need to know. "He’s been superb for me. Yeah, I understand he wants to play in the top league and I understand his reasons, but that hasn’t happened and he’s been absolutely magnificent." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If he is so good and such a great guy how come 3 managers in a row have failed to pick him on a regular basis? You have to look at what people do not what they say. They don't like his attitude and see him as disruptive is my guess, whatever they may say publicly. So what you're saying, is that O'Neill is already lying to the fans, then? And by the way, Jones was playing him ... Managers have to flirt with the truth constantly. He is not going to say a player, particularly our most saleable one, is a nightmare to work with. Given Badou started and was taken off and Etebo was sub and then left out, it must be either an attitude thing or he doesn’t believe they fit his style. The least worst answer is the first, he only wants players who are fully committed but it’s a brave move if so
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Post by Trouserdog on Dec 1, 2019 9:45:43 GMT
It's bizarre this...absolutely bizarre. At first I thought there might be something going on behind the scenes with both players- that perhaps they'd got wind of moves in January and had requested not to be used until then. That, apparently, is NOT the case. That leaves us then with 2 scenarios, neither of which is good: 1) The board have deals lined up for both and have instructed the manager not to play them as they're desperate for the cash in order to meet FFP. 2) The manager thinks that Ryan Woods is a better player than Badou Ndiaye and Peter Etebo. if it's number 2 then he'd better get that idea out of his head by the next game or I'll already be doubting whether he knows what he's doing. If he hasn't immediately clocked that they're on a different level to Allen and Woods, it's a massive concern. He's another who has been predisposed to worship at the altar of the church of St. Joseph Allen from day one, regardless of what his eyes are telling him. He seems a very bright bloke, but just hope he isn't a British is Best merchant. Just what information is Delap feeding them about Etebo? Rory should be saying 'you're getting this badly wrong on Etebo' That's the concern...he seems to be picking the players he'd heard of before taking the job as opposed to the ones who are actually any good. Unfortunately, we can't afford a settling in period for anyone to experiment and fanny around with daft line-ups and formations that don't work. He needs to bin this 4-3-3 wank off by next week and sort his selections out.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 9:48:09 GMT
Ndiaye didn't play until after the window shut,that was from orders from above,Jones said as much. O'Neill sees him as an attacking midfielder for some bizarre reason and on that basis can't find room for him in the starting 11 in his best position DM. Etebo was injured and then had a baby so he's probably not trained that much under O'Neill's watch
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Post by Trouserdog on Dec 1, 2019 9:50:03 GMT
Ndiaye didn't play until after the window shut,that was from orders from above,Jones said as much. O'Neill sees him as an attacking midfielder for some bizarre reason and on that basis can't find room for him in the starting 11 in his best position DM. Etebo was injured and then had a baby so he's probably not trained that much under O'Neill's watch Fucking hell, no wonder he's not fit to play.
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Post by minnierover on Dec 1, 2019 9:50:16 GMT
Horrendous lack of preparation ie they haven’t watched the games or terrible judgment either way it’s atrocious management Bit harsh! To be fair to MON he’s rather preoccupied right now. Presume he’s having to watch endless videos of NI’s playoff opponents at the moment. He will also have been keen to get away from the ground to watch the Euro draw so won’t have had a chance to analyse yesterday’s debacle yet. Hopefully when all the euro stuff is out the way by March next year he’ll be able to fully concentrate on us. Mind you we’ve gone for a guy who’s never managed in the EFL at any level and who hasn’t had to do 7 days a week club management job for about 7 years now so it’ll be interesting to see how he gets on.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Dec 1, 2019 9:57:52 GMT
Horrendous lack of preparation ie they haven’t watched the games or terrible judgment either way it’s atrocious management Bit harsh! To be fair to MON he’s rather preoccupied right now. Presume he’s having to watch endless videos of NI’s playoff opponents at the moment. He will also have been keen to get away from the ground to watch the Euro draw so won’t have had a chance to analyse yesterday’s debacle yet. Hopefully when all the euro stuff is out the way by March next year he’ll be able to fully concentrate on us. Mind you we’ve gone for a guy who’s never managed in the EFL at any level and who hasn’t had to do 7 days a week club management job for about 7 years now so it’ll be interesting to see how he gets on. 😂 very good
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Post by xchpotter on Dec 1, 2019 10:00:50 GMT
It's bizarre this...absolutely bizarre. At first I thought there might be something going on behind the scenes with both players- that perhaps they'd got wind of moves in January and had requested not to be used until then. That, apparently, is NOT the case. That leaves us then with 2 scenarios, neither of which is good: 1) The board have deals lined up for both and have instructed the manager not to play them as they're desperate for the cash in order to meet FFP. 2) The manager thinks that Ryan Woods is a better player than Badou Ndiaye and Peter Etebo. if it's number 2 then he'd better get that idea out of his head by the next game or I'll already be doubting whether he knows what he's doing. Both of these scenarios are very different, equally plausible. I’m going for option one as I can’t believe O’Neil is that shit to not see it...if he is we are fucked. Unfortunately, either scenario has the same ultimate outcome.....relegation.😞😞
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 1, 2019 10:30:00 GMT
I think it's almost certainly the logical explanation Nick ... O'Neill hasn't got a clue what he's doing.
No way have the club from the get go, instructed him on who he can and can't pick. If our new manager can't recognise who our two best players are (and by a huge margin), then it's looking pretty bleak for us going forwards, isn't it? Laughable statement. And that's a nothing statement. Why don't you actually counter what I said with something credible? Badou and Etebo are our two best players, yet O'Neill has got one of them on the bench and the other one can't even make that. Why is he making those choices?
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Post by harlequin on Dec 1, 2019 10:42:58 GMT
Sometimes shoehorning players in because they are more technically sound results in a unbalanced mess. Maybe he's selecting players on what he suits the current tactics rather then creating a Frankenstein amalgamation of what they can deliver.
He wants his midfielders to pass and interchange. Etebo has had some really sloppy passes and both N'diaye and Etebo are more inclined to drive with the ball and lay it off.
He wants his midfielders to harry the opposition. Etebo and N'diaye are more likely to stay back and time a tackle. If he changes his tactics which he is prone to do we might see Etebo and N'diaye start.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 10:55:47 GMT
Sometimes shoehorning players in because they are more technically sound results in a unbalanced mess. Maybe he's selecting players on what he suits the current tactics rather then creating a Frankenstein amalgamation of what they can deliver. He wants his midfielders to pass and interchange. Etebo has had some really sloppy passes and both N'diaye and Etebo are more inclined to drive with the ball and lay it off. He wants his midfielders to harry the opposition. Etebo and N'diaye are more likely to stay back and time a tackle. If he changes his tactics which he is prone to do we might see Etebo and N'diaye start. I don’t understand. First, the manager seems set on a 433. You can’t really play that effectively without a holding midfielder. Badou is the only one we have. You don’t want your holding midfielder harrying high up the pitch, you want him to be disciplined. Which he has been. None of our midfielders are capable of ‘pass and interchange’. Allen yesterday frequently nicked the ball and then immediately passed it straight to one of their players. ‘Drive with the ball and lay it off’ seems like an inherently sensible strategy. Why wouldn’t we want to do that, especially in this system? We were told MON was a sensible pragmatist who knew how to play to the strengths of what he’d got at his disposal. What you’re laying out sounds like almost the opposite of that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 11:04:52 GMT
He seems to have a love affair with Woods
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Post by wuzza on Dec 1, 2019 11:05:00 GMT
Etebo to me has always had a touch of the Imbula’s about him in that he can get hold of the ball drive forward and end up in a cul-de-sac of either his own or his colleagues lack of movements making. Fact remains though he would probably be bloody good in a better team which makes me think we have probably had very solid interest in signing him in Jan. As such we can’t afford to lose the potential inflow of cash (especially as the Butland ‘piggy bank’ no longer exists). ONeill must be trying to figure out the best way forward without him.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2019 11:08:41 GMT
Etebo to me has always had a touch of the Imbula’s about him in that he can get hold of the ball drive forward and end up in a cul-de-sac of either his own or his colleagues lack of movements making. Fact remains though he would probably be bloody good in a better team which makes me think we have probably had very solid interest in signing him in Jan. As such we can’t afford to lose the potential inflow of cash (especially as the Butland ‘piggy bank’ no longer exists). ONeill must be trying to figure out the best way forward without him. Surely the best way to get good money for him is to get him in the shop window rather than squirreling him away?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 11:13:38 GMT
Etebo to me has always had a touch of the Imbula’s about him in that he can get hold of the ball drive forward and end up in a cul-de-sac of either his own or his colleagues lack of movements making. Fact remains though he would probably be bloody good in a better team which makes me think we have probably had very solid interest in signing him in Jan. As such we can’t afford to lose the potential inflow of cash (especially as the Butland ‘piggy bank’ no longer exists). ONeill must be trying to figure out the best way forward without him. Surely the best way to get good money for him is to get him in the shop window rather than squirreling him away? What if a deal has already been agreed ?
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Post by wuzza on Dec 1, 2019 11:15:22 GMT
Etebo to me has always had a touch of the Imbula’s about him in that he can get hold of the ball drive forward and end up in a cul-de-sac of either his own or his colleagues lack of movements making. Fact remains though he would probably be bloody good in a better team which makes me think we have probably had very solid interest in signing him in Jan. As such we can’t afford to lose the potential inflow of cash (especially as the Butland ‘piggy bank’ no longer exists). ONeill must be trying to figure out the best way forward without him. Surely the best way to get good money for him is to get him in the shop window rather than squirreling him away? Somebody might have seen all they need to - put a number on it we like / can’t refuse and nobody want to risk it going tits up ?
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Dec 1, 2019 11:20:22 GMT
Even if they both want away, they still have to play whilst they are still here, both in the side at the same time would have us picking up more points than without them, those points at the end of the season could be crucial.
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Post by harlequin on Dec 1, 2019 11:20:51 GMT
First, the manager seems set on a 433. You can’t really play that effectively without a holding midfielder. Badou is the only one we have. You don’t want your holding midfielder harrying high up the pitch, you want him to be disciplined. Which he has been. Woods is more of a deep lying playmaker. If he’s playing a possession based system then retention and passing qualities are more important. Woods has that over Badou. None of our midfielders are capable of ‘pass and interchange’. Allen yesterday frequently nicked the ball and then immediately passed it straight to one of their players. It wasn’t on display much yesterday but has been in previous games. Particularly the lead up to Clucas’s second goal at Barnsley. ‘Drive with the ball and lay it off’ seems like an inherently sensible strategy. Why wouldn’t we want to do that, especially in this system? Because it’s not what he’s looking for currently, it’s sensible but it’s a different style. We were told MON was a sensible pragmatist who knew how to play to the strengths of what he’d got at his disposal. What you’re laying out sounds like almost the opposite of that. Not really. He’s selected a style based on the attributes of the majority of the midfielders rather than our best technically, because they might not be here long and our very best has shown flagrant disloyalty.
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