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Post by serpico on Nov 14, 2019 20:26:14 GMT
Including communists, socialists and Marxists the only poor people in China are the lower working low skilled class strange that ! That's why Revolutions never work mate. One set of greedy bastards are replaced with another. (See Venezuala) reminds me of this clip
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Nov 14, 2019 20:32:40 GMT
That's why Revolutions never work mate. One set of greedy bastards are replaced with another. (See Venezuala) reminds me of this clip The driving force in human nature which like most things has two sides to the coin. Human beings didn't get to the top of the food chain by being nice.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 21:32:46 GMT
Most jobs in London have higher pay. And why are you saying that working hard has nothing to do with how skilled your job is. They want £15 ph because that would be enough for them to afford rent, bills, food and an acceptable work/life balance. Why is that wrong? I know that's what I said London weighting is the norm. I didn't say that working hard has nothing to do with how skilled your job is , if they can't afford to live in London because they work for McDonalds maybe just maybe they should consider moving, when I bought my first house I was still an apprentice engineer my partner was a hairdresser we couldn't afford the mortgage on both wages so I took a second job nights and weekends to make ends meet, what is stopping anyone else doing that mind it was really hard work maybe that is why they don't. If you want something badly enough you get off your arse and find a way to make it happen hardly rocket science even for a dyed in the wool socialist.
I mean that is in no what whatsoever the way the world currently works. working hard does not currently bring you success. Any full time job should pay enough for you to survive and live. Why should McDonalds workers have to work themselves to death with 2 or 3 jobs just because they didn't go to uni or get on an apprenticeship?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 21:33:55 GMT
Doesn't work like that in the real world. Workers want to maintain 'differentials'. IE "If he's getting £4 an hour wage I want £6 etc etc Wages start to go up but so does the cost of producing things. So prices rise. You end up with a wage-price spiral where the Real wage actually goes down.. (Stagflation) Happened throughout the 1970s. The fundamental flaw in the Lefts argument is that they ignore the fundamental flaw in human nature. Most people are greedy bastards. 😁 Including communists, socialists and Marxists the only poor people in China are the lower working low skilled class strange that ! China is a capitalist state with horrific human rights and absolutely not a socialist country. Its people are generally treated like shit. The opposite of socialism.
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Post by foster on Nov 14, 2019 21:36:17 GMT
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Nov 14, 2019 21:44:36 GMT
Yeah (albeit one with a very little willy).
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Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 14, 2019 21:49:43 GMT
I know that's what I said London weighting is the norm. I didn't say that working hard has nothing to do with how skilled your job is , if they can't afford to live in London because they work for McDonalds maybe just maybe they should consider moving, when I bought my first house I was still an apprentice engineer my partner was a hairdresser we couldn't afford the mortgage on both wages so I took a second job nights and weekends to make ends meet, what is stopping anyone else doing that mind it was really hard work maybe that is why they don't. If you want something badly enough you get off your arse and find a way to make it happen hardly rocket science even for a dyed in the wool socialist.
I mean that is in no what whatsoever the way the world currently works. working hard does not currently bring you success. Any full time job should pay enough for you to survive and live. Why should McDonalds workers have to work themselves to death with 2 or 3 jobs just because they didn't go to uni or get on an apprenticeship? The generation where winners and losers weren't part of school sports days. It's fostered a sense of entitlement that they can have what they want without any effort. Pricks. I'm waiting for the day one of them brings their mum and to a performance review like a school report night.
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Post by musik on Nov 14, 2019 21:51:40 GMT
Are Swedish women really, really ugly? No, they keep the standard,🙂 but it's more difficult to detect them in the street crowd these days.
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 14, 2019 22:58:52 GMT
Including communists, socialists and Marxists the only poor people in China are the lower working low skilled class strange that ! China is a capitalist state with horrific human rights and absolutely not a socialist country. Its people are generally treated like shit. The opposite of socialism. China is one of the remaining four communist countries like it or not son warts and all, surprised you would advocate this sort of regime
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Post by felonious on Nov 15, 2019 5:25:07 GMT
Most jobs in London have higher pay. And why are you saying that working hard has nothing to do with how skilled your job is. They want £15 ph because that would be enough for them to afford rent, bills, food and an acceptable work/life balance. Why is that wrong? I know that's what I said London weighting is the norm. I didn't say that working hard has nothing to do with how skilled your job is , if they can't afford to live in London because they work for McDonalds maybe just maybe they should consider moving, when I bought my first house I was still an apprentice engineer my partner was a hairdresser we couldn't afford the mortgage on both wages so I took a second job nights and weekends to make ends meet, what is stopping anyone else doing that mind it was really hard work maybe that is why they don't. If you want something badly enough you get off your arse and find a way to make it happen hardly rocket science even for a dyed in the wool socialist.
Poor choice of words there Crappy..... this particular dyed in the wool socialist knows all about rocket science
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Post by Eggybread on Nov 15, 2019 6:18:16 GMT
Including communists, socialists and Marxists the only poor people in China are the lower working low skilled class strange that ! That's why Revolutions never work mate. One set of greedy bastards are replaced with another. (See Venezuela) Completely wrong.
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Post by Eggybread on Nov 15, 2019 6:26:13 GMT
I know that's what I said London weighting is the norm. I didn't say that working hard has nothing to do with how skilled your job is , if they can't afford to live in London because they work for McDonalds maybe just maybe they should consider moving, when I bought my first house I was still an apprentice engineer my partner was a hairdresser we couldn't afford the mortgage on both wages so I took a second job nights and weekends to make ends meet, what is stopping anyone else doing that mind it was really hard work maybe that is why they don't. If you want something badly enough you get off your arse and find a way to make it happen hardly rocket science even for a dyed in the wool socialist.
I mean that is in no what whatsoever the way the world currently works. working hard does not currently bring you success. Any full time job should pay enough for you to survive and live. Why should McDonalds workers have to work themselves to death with 2 or 3 jobs just because they didn't go to uni or get on an apprenticeship? Mate this forum has some of the most heartless,selfish ,jealous people I have ever come across.I dont care if people get upset, to the outside world its like a little bubble of self harm.Labour have just announced free broadband for everyone and to get the high tech companies to pay for it with higher taxes.I bet 100% the same people as always will pick it to death and vote to keep paying for it.Its incredulous,sad really.
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 15, 2019 6:42:29 GMT
Including communists, socialists and Marxists the only poor people in China are the lower working low skilled class strange that ! China is a capitalist state with horrific human rights and absolutely not a socialist country. Its people are generally treated like shit. The opposite of socialism. It is though the reality of socialism.
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Nov 15, 2019 7:15:47 GMT
I mean that is in no what whatsoever the way the world currently works. working hard does not currently bring you success. Any full time job should pay enough for you to survive and live. Why should McDonalds workers have to work themselves to death with 2 or 3 jobs just because they didn't go to uni or get on an apprenticeship? Mate this forum has some of the most heartless,selfish ,jealous people I have ever come across.I dont care if people get upset, to the outside world its like a little bubble of self harm.Labour have just announced free broadband for everyone and to get the high tech companies to pay for it with higher taxes.I bet 100% the same people as always will pick it to death and vote to keep paying for it.Its incredulous,sad really. I think it’s worth pointing out in defence of the ‘selfish bastards’ there is a multi billion pound media industry designed to keep them an angry at ‘an other’ be it immigrants the poor black people whatever it is. James O’Brien made an interesting point in his book ( recommend it I if you haven’t already read it) regards how people think thier contribution to the tax system is spend. It’s mucheasier to print a story ‘YOUR taxes going to fund lazy dole immigrant’ than the reality that most people’s taxes go on stuff you don’t even think about, filling in pot holes or paying for someone to answer the phone when you ring the DWP. Anger sells brilliantly and the murdoch media are brilliant at getting people angry and manipulating thier vote
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 15, 2019 7:20:00 GMT
I know that's what I said London weighting is the norm. I didn't say that working hard has nothing to do with how skilled your job is , if they can't afford to live in London because they work for McDonalds maybe just maybe they should consider moving, when I bought my first house I was still an apprentice engineer my partner was a hairdresser we couldn't afford the mortgage on both wages so I took a second job nights and weekends to make ends meet, what is stopping anyone else doing that mind it was really hard work maybe that is why they don't. If you want something badly enough you get off your arse and find a way to make it happen hardly rocket science even for a dyed in the wool socialist.
Poor choice of words there Crappy..... this particular dyed in the wool socialist knows all about rocket science I wouldn't go anywhere near any rocket he was involved with, God help the kids if he's a teacher.
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Post by Eggybread on Nov 15, 2019 7:29:56 GMT
Mate this forum has some of the most heartless,selfish ,jealous people I have ever come across.I dont care if people get upset, to the outside world its like a little bubble of self harm.Labour have just announced free broadband for everyone and to get the high tech companies to pay for it with higher taxes.I bet 100% the same people as always will pick it to death and vote to keep paying for it.Its incredulous,sad really. I think it’s worth pointing out in defence of the ‘selfish bastards’ there is a multi billion pound media industry designed to keep them an angry at ‘an other’ be it immigrants the poor black people whatever it is. James O’Brien made an interesting point in his book ( recommend it I if you haven’t already read it) regards how people think thier contribution to the tax system is spend. It’s mucheasier to print a story ‘YOUR taxes going to fund lazy dole immigrant’ than the reality that most people’s taxes go on stuff you don’t even think about, filling in pot holes or paying for someone to answer the phone when you ring the DWP. Anger sells brilliantly and the murdoch media are brilliant at getting people angry and manipulating thier vote You are correct easier targets what people can relate to on a day to day basis is a very powerful weapon to a nation trained and educate not to think outside the box. An immigrant on the streets is (or so it seems )a simple solution (close the borders). But the reasons behind the man on the street is complicated and people dont want to know. I also like James O’Brien too.
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 15, 2019 7:38:54 GMT
I think it’s worth pointing out in defence of the ‘selfish bastards’ there is a multi billion pound media industry designed to keep them an angry at ‘an other’ be it immigrants the poor black people whatever it is. James O’Brien made an interesting point in his book ( recommend it I if you haven’t already read it) regards how people think thier contribution to the tax system is spend. It’s mucheasier to print a story ‘YOUR taxes going to fund lazy dole immigrant’ than the reality that most people’s taxes go on stuff you don’t even think about, filling in pot holes or paying for someone to answer the phone when you ring the DWP. Anger sells brilliantly and the murdoch media are brilliant at getting people angry and manipulating thier vote You are correct easier targets what people can relate to on a day to day basis is a very powerful weapon to a nation trained and educate not to think outside the box. An immigrant on the streets is (or so it seems )a simple solution (close the borders). But the reasons behind the man on the street is complicated and people dont want to know. I also like James O’Brien too. That people can relate to, trained and educated
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 15, 2019 7:53:45 GMT
That's why Revolutions never work mate. One set of greedy bastards are replaced with another. (See Venezuala) reminds me of this clip He’s not giving any defence of Capitalism though is he. He’s just talking about power. Capitalism is almost indefensible as an exploitive tool for having one person over to the benefit of another. There are losers. So to that end why don’t the losers collectivise & have there exploiters over, cause we’ve already established that might is right. Power used to be wielded by great big psychopaths that could swing a huge broadsword. Now it’s wielded by nerds & geeks on the spectrum that dominate the Silicon Valley. Capitalism is just another ideology, like socialism.
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Nov 15, 2019 7:59:36 GMT
He’s not giving any defence of Capitalism though is he. He’s just talking about power. Capitalism is almost indefensible as an exploitive tool for having one person over to the benefit of another. There are losers. So to that end why don’t the losers collectivise & have there exploiters over, cause we’ve already established that might is right. Power used to be wielded by great big psychopaths that could swing a huge broadsword. Now it’s wielded by nerds & geeks on the spectrum that dominate the Silicon Valley. Capitalism is just another ideology, like socialism. Also worth pointing out that he’s completely leaves out the current biggest problem with capitalism in modern times. It’s drives consumption to unsustainable levels and causes a tremendous amount of environmental damage.
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Post by timbstoke on Nov 15, 2019 8:20:25 GMT
Unfortunately, the problem isn't McDonalds, it's the NMW. McDonalds *is* a minimum wage job. That's literally what it's for - it provides work for students and other unskilled workers.
If they start paying £15ph, do you think they're still going to employ and train students for their first experience of the working world? Fuck no. Those jobs will be filled by people with proven restaurant experience, because they're suddenly paying more than most restaurants. And those other restaurants aren't going to step in to fill the gap - they'll still insist on people who already know how to cook chips.
I understand the employees wanting more money, but I don't think they've properly thought through the consequences of getting what they want. 90% of those workers wouldn't make the cut for the new, well paid burger flipping jobs.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 8:40:23 GMT
I mean that is in no what whatsoever the way the world currently works. working hard does not currently bring you success. Any full time job should pay enough for you to survive and live. Why should McDonalds workers have to work themselves to death with 2 or 3 jobs just because they didn't go to uni or get on an apprenticeship? The generation where winners and losers weren't part of school sports days. It's fostered a sense of entitlement that they can have what they want without any effort. Pricks. I'm waiting for the day one of them brings their mum and to a performance review like a school report night. 'What you want' is nothing to do with being able to live. Wanting housing, food, bills paid by a full time job should be a right. That's not entitlement, it's wanting capitalism to practice what it preaches, 'you work hard, you get something back'.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 8:42:35 GMT
I mean that is in no what whatsoever the way the world currently works. working hard does not currently bring you success. Any full time job should pay enough for you to survive and live. Why should McDonalds workers have to work themselves to death with 2 or 3 jobs just because they didn't go to uni or get on an apprenticeship? Mate this forum has some of the most heartless,selfish ,jealous people I have ever come across.I dont care if people get upset, to the outside world its like a little bubble of self harm.Labour have just announced free broadband for everyone and to get the high tech companies to pay for it with higher taxes.I bet 100% the same people as always will pick it to death and vote to keep paying for it.Its incredulous,sad really. I don't think it's selfishishness inherently, not in most cases anyway. I think people in general have been fucked over for so long that they don't believe in anyone offering too much good. Don't blame them to be honest. Probably why younger people are more likely to be socialist.
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Post by foster on Nov 15, 2019 8:47:18 GMT
Why are some people here making out that McDonalds employees are working in sweatshop conditions and barely scraping a living just because they're asking for a higher wage.
Every time I've been to McDonalds or any fast food outlet the people there are mainly young and likely students or new school leavers. The money they earn is probably in line with other young people who work as waiters, bar staff, cinema ushers, etc. It's all part of process when people start working.
The reason people go to McDonalds is because it's cheap. If wages go up substantially then costs, prices and unemployment goes up. If McDonalds becomes more expensive there will be less customers as people can eat better food for the same price elsewhere.
Now I'm not saying that wages shouldn't go up a little, but it wouldn't make sense to increase it so much for such an unskilled and typically student job.
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 15, 2019 8:56:04 GMT
Why are some people here making out that McDonalds employees are working in sweatshop conditions and barely scraping a living just because they're asking for a higher wage. Every time I've been to McDonalds or any fast food outlet the people there are mainly young and likely students or new school leavers. The money they earn is probably in line with other young people who work as waiters, bar staff, cinema ushers, etc. It's all part of process when people start working. The reason people go to McDonalds is because it's cheap. If wages go up substantially then costs, prices and unemployment goes up. If McDonalds becomes more expensive there will be less customers as people can eat better food for the same price elsewhere. Now I'm not saying that wages shouldn't go up a little, but it wouldn't make sense to increase it so much for such an unskilled and typically student job. Fascist.
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Post by foster on Nov 15, 2019 8:58:52 GMT
Why are some people here making out that McDonalds employees are working in sweatshop conditions and barely scraping a living just because they're asking for a higher wage. Every time I've been to McDonalds or any fast food outlet the people there are mainly young and likely students or new school leavers. The money they earn is probably in line with other young people who work as waiters, bar staff, cinema ushers, etc. It's all part of process when people start working. The reason people go to McDonalds is because it's cheap. If wages go up substantially then costs, prices and unemployment goes up. If McDonalds becomes more expensive there will be less customers as people can eat better food for the same price elsewhere. Now I'm not saying that wages shouldn't go up a little, but it wouldn't make sense to increase it so much for such an unskilled and typically student job. Fascist. Doesn't even make sense.
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 15, 2019 9:03:47 GMT
Doesn't even make sense. It wasn’t intended to. Just a wee joke.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Nov 15, 2019 12:03:12 GMT
The generation where winners and losers weren't part of school sports days. It's fostered a sense of entitlement that they can have what they want without any effort. Pricks. I'm waiting for the day one of them brings their mum and to a performance review like a school report night. 'What you want' is nothing to do with being able to live. Wanting housing, food, bills paid by a full time job should be a right. That's not entitlement, it's wanting capitalism to practice what it preaches, 'you work hard, you get something back'. I often do a task with KS3 wherein I get them to write their own manifesto. Some of them make more sense than the stuff you come out with at times. They get paid what the market dictates. Artificially inflating wages is disastrously stupid. Everything, everything, has a knock-on effect. Most of these have been explained already in this thread. If you genuinely believe that someone should be legally guaranteed all those things you've suggested through mere virtue of being employed full-time, then I'm flabbergasted. The reality is that money can be directly correlated to time. Some people's time is worth more than others. That's not only how it is, but how it should be, because to approach it otherwise is to totally remove incentives for personal growth, and therefore society's advancement as a whole.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 12:09:05 GMT
'What you want' is nothing to do with being able to live. Wanting housing, food, bills paid by a full time job should be a right. That's not entitlement, it's wanting capitalism to practice what it preaches, 'you work hard, you get something back'. I often do a task with KS3 wherein I get them to write their own manifesto. Some of them make more sense than the stuff you come out with at times. They get paid what the market dictates. Artificially inflating wages is disastrously stupid. Everything, everything, has a knock-on effect. Most of these have been explained already in this thread. If you genuinely believe that someone should be legally guaranteed all those things you've suggested through mere virtue of being employed full-time, then I'm flabbergasted. The reality is that money can be directly correlated to time. Some people's time is worth more than others. That's not only how it is, but how it should be, because to approach it otherwise is to totally remove incentives for personal growth, and therefore society's advancement as a whole. There is plenty of incentive for personal growth. It is mad to me that 'if you work 40 hours a week, you should be able to afford to survive' is a 'loony left wing fantasy' tbh. And if our society doesn't allow that, then something has gone badly wrong.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 15, 2019 12:18:25 GMT
Including communists, socialists and Marxists the only poor people in China are the lower working low skilled class strange that ! China is a capitalist state with horrific human rights and absolutely not a socialist country. Its people are generally treated like shit. The opposite of socialism.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 12:21:14 GMT
China is a capitalist state with horrific human rights and absolutely not a socialist country. Its people are generally treated like shit. The opposite of socialism. In fairness, it seems to be neither! It lacks the social investment required to be socialist and the internal markets to be capitalist [1] [1] Market Socialism or Capitalism? Evidence from Chinese Financial Market Development, by Julan Du and Chenggang Xu. 2005. IEA 2005 Round Table on Market and Socialism.
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