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Post by The battheader chronicles on Nov 14, 2019 13:53:48 GMT
Not somewhere I’d go particularly but I really wouldn’t mind paying a bit more eating out if it meant the staff at the place I was eating were able to make rent. The systems fucked the vulnerable for the last 10 years, if they think they can get £15ph from a very profitable multinational good on em The exact arguments you make above where used against any form of NMW and that worked out ok Also calling someone a fucking prick as your opening gambit just seems a bit unnecessary Sorry ,it`s just how I see it. By the way, I think there are a lot of people in his own party who think the same but keep their heads down Oh I’m not disputing that at all mate although I guess you could make the same point regards Johnson and the moderate wing of his party |
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Nov 14, 2019 15:14:29 GMT
At the moment, the NMW is £8.21 for over 25s. The difference between £15 (I know, negotiation starting point) and NMW is £6.79.
Assuming a restaurant has 10 members of staff on a shift at any given point, thh shift lasts 8 hours, and the restaurant is open 24 hours a day, the wage increase means that the franchise holder tnow has to find an extra £429,696 per year to pay the staff.
These are conservative estimates too; I'd hazard a guess that some restuarants have more than ten staff on duty at any point, and the vast majority of them won't be on the 25+ wage either.
If you think that shortfall won't result in redundancies or extortionate prices for food (thereby putting off customers, leading to net profit loss and... redundancies), you're economically illiterate.
It's nothing to do with people "hating" others for trying to get something good. It's pointing out that you can't fudge the market with pixie dust and unicorn promises and expect everything to be okay.
And billionaires don't typically hoard wealth under the mattress, they invest it back into businesses, creating jobs, driving innovation forward and improving goods and services... And even if they don't, they buy things like cars and yachts!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 15:21:14 GMT
At the moment, the NMW is £8.21 for over 25s. The difference between £15 (I know, negotiation starting point) and NMW is £6.79. Assuming a restaurant has 10 members of staff on a shift at any given point, thh shift lasts 8 hours, and the restaurant is open 24 hours a day, the wage increase means that the franchise holder tnow has to find an extra £429,696 per year to pay the staff. These are conservative estimates too; I'd hazard a guess that some restuarants have more than ten staff on duty at any point, and the vast majority of them won't be on the 25+ wage either. If you think that shortfall won't result in redundancies or extortionate prices for food (thereby putting off customers, leading to net profit loss and... redundancies), you're economically illiterate. It's nothing to do with people "hating" others for trying to get something good. It's pointing out that you can't fudge the market with pixie dust and unicorn promises and expect everything to be okay. And billionaires don't typically hoard wealth under the mattress, they invest it back into businesses, creating jobs, driving innovation forward and improving goods and services... And even if they don't, they buy things like cars and yachts! Denmark offers a £15 wage equivalent for its workers at McDonald's. They don't publish specifics for the UK, but profits were over 300 million last year. Their CEO in 2016 was paid $15 million in 2016. They can afford a 500k hike in wages. |
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Nov 14, 2019 15:34:32 GMT
At the moment, the NMW is £8.21 for over 25s. The difference between £15 (I know, negotiation starting point) and NMW is £6.79. Assuming a restaurant has 10 members of staff on a shift at any given point, thh shift lasts 8 hours, and the restaurant is open 24 hours a day, the wage increase means that the franchise holder tnow has to find an extra £429,696 per year to pay the staff. These are conservative estimates too; I'd hazard a guess that some restuarants have more than ten staff on duty at any point, and the vast majority of them won't be on the 25+ wage either. If you think that shortfall won't result in redundancies or extortionate prices for food (thereby putting off customers, leading to net profit loss and... redundancies), you're economically illiterate. It's nothing to do with people "hating" others for trying to get something good. It's pointing out that you can't fudge the market with pixie dust and unicorn promises and expect everything to be okay. And billionaires don't typically hoard wealth under the mattress, they invest it back into businesses, creating jobs, driving innovation forward and improving goods and services... And even if they don't, they buy things like cars and yachts! Denmark offers a £15 wage equivalent for its workers at McDonald's. They don't publish specifics for the UK, but profits were over 300 million last year. Their CEO in 2016 was paid $15 million in 2016. They can afford a 500k hike in wages. Just adding to this. A Big Mac in Denmark cost $5.15 in the US it’s $4.80 average. I reckon most people would be happy to pay an extra 50p in this country if it meant it helped the staff |
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Post by thevoid on Nov 14, 2019 15:58:31 GMT
It's a starter job. It's not supposed to buy you a house. Does that go for all fast food and restaurant work? Front of house (bar/waiting/serving jobs) are aimed mainly at students aren't they- I'd imagine management/chef jobs are classed as vocations and salaried accordingly? You're not going to get a gherkin chopper at Macca D's on the same rate as one of Marcus Wareing's brigade. |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Nov 14, 2019 15:59:33 GMT
Over 60,000 support workers in Mental Health and Childrens homes are assaulted every year..some extremely seriously, are spat at, attacked, have shit thrown at them on a daily basis.
Most are on between £8.50 and £9.50 an hour.
There are over 90,000 vacancies Nationally (Surprise, surprise)
My advice to these people, get a job at McDonalds.
Better pay, better conditions, and you won't have infected blood spat at you.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 14, 2019 16:13:53 GMT
Over 60,000 support workers in Mental Health and Childrens homes are assaulted every year..some extremely seriously, are spat at, attacked, have shit thrown at them on a daily basis. Most are on between £8.50 and £9.50 an hour. There are over 90,000 vacancies Nationally (Surprise, surprise) My advice to these people, get a job at McDonalds. Better pay, better conditions, and you won't have infected blood spat at you. If nothing else McDonalds workers standing up for themselves has focussed minds on other areas where pay is atrocious. See what can be achieved when workers from all industries stick together? Sound to me like a lot people want change but are preparing to vote for the staus quo. |
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Nov 14, 2019 16:52:05 GMT
At the moment, the NMW is £8.21 for over 25s. The difference between £15 (I know, negotiation starting point) and NMW is £6.79. Assuming a restaurant has 10 members of staff on a shift at any given point, thh shift lasts 8 hours, and the restaurant is open 24 hours a day, the wage increase means that the franchise holder tnow has to find an extra £429,696 per year to pay the staff. These are conservative estimates too; I'd hazard a guess that some restuarants have more than ten staff on duty at any point, and the vast majority of them won't be on the 25+ wage either. If you think that shortfall won't result in redundancies or extortionate prices for food (thereby putting off customers, leading to net profit loss and... redundancies), you're economically illiterate. It's nothing to do with people "hating" others for trying to get something good. It's pointing out that you can't fudge the market with pixie dust and unicorn promises and expect everything to be okay. And billionaires don't typically hoard wealth under the mattress, they invest it back into businesses, creating jobs, driving innovation forward and improving goods and services... And even if they don't, they buy things like cars and yachts! Denmark offers a £15 wage equivalent for its workers at McDonald's. They don't publish specifics for the UK, but profits were over 300 million last year. Their CEO in 2016 was paid $15 million in 2016. They can afford a 500k hike in wages. That's 500k per restaurant. Applying that to the 1249 restaurants across the UK, that's an extra £585,821,000 in wages they'd have to pay. That dwarfs that 300m profit you're on about. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 17:08:45 GMT
Denmark offers a £15 wage equivalent for its workers at McDonald's. They don't publish specifics for the UK, but profits were over 300 million last year. Their CEO in 2016 was paid $15 million in 2016. They can afford a 500k hike in wages. That's 500k per restaurant. Applying that to the 1249 restaurants across the UK, that's an extra £585,821,000 in wages they'd have to pay. That dwarfs that 300m profit you're on about. it's only London restaurant staff striking for £15 per hour isn't it? And very few Mcdonalds will have 10 staff on for a whole day. Definitely not 10 hourly paid staff on at a given time for the whole day. Even in London I'd imagine. |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Nov 14, 2019 18:03:17 GMT
Over 60,000 support workers in Mental Health and Childrens homes are assaulted every year..some extremely seriously, are spat at, attacked, have shit thrown at them on a daily basis. Most are on between £8.50 and £9.50 an hour. There are over 90,000 vacancies Nationally (Surprise, surprise) My advice to these people, get a job at McDonalds. Better pay, better conditions, and you won't have infected blood spat at you. If nothing else McDonalds workers standing up for themselves has focussed minds on other areas where pay is atrocious. See what can be achieved when workers from all industries stick together? Sound to me like a lot people want change but are preparing to vote for the staus quo. Most people at 'Maccy d's' have never heard of Status Quo |
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Post by musik on Nov 14, 2019 18:30:51 GMT
They are demanding £15 an hour! Really? £15? I remember when a guy who worked at McDonalds over here was asked on TV a few years ago what he earned, and he replied 80 SEK, which is £6.40. The lowest I know of otherwise in Sweden now are the ones who earn 60 SEK (=£4.80), which is pretty bad. Apart from if you calculate what messengers bringing printed advertising to household earn, it's kind of frightening. Most of them are rather young, school teenagers but I've actually seen middle aged people in their 40ies doing it too, it's not an unusual sight these days, both swedes and immigrants. They have normally 200-300 household in their district and it takes normally 2.5 hours = 150 mins. They usually get 100 SEK (£8), which £3.20 wage per hour!! Plus the fact many do this during the black night here now. With no extra compensation for that. I was almost applying for a job for them, but hesitated when I saw the condition. It wasn't as a messenger running around though, but as a controller. I turned the 120 SEK (£9.61) offer down. £15 per hour. That's pretty much exactly the median wage in Sweden for full time work. Wipe out your illusion of Sweden!😉 |
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 14, 2019 18:34:25 GMT
At the moment, the NMW is £8.21 for over 25s. The difference between £15 (I know, negotiation starting point) and NMW is £6.79. Assuming a restaurant has 10 members of staff on a shift at any given point, thh shift lasts 8 hours, and the restaurant is open 24 hours a day, the wage increase means that the franchise holder tnow has to find an extra £429,696 per year to pay the staff. These are conservative estimates too; I'd hazard a guess that some restuarants have more than ten staff on duty at any point, and the vast majority of them won't be on the 25+ wage either. If you think that shortfall won't result in redundancies or extortionate prices for food (thereby putting off customers, leading to net profit loss and... redundancies), you're economically illiterate. It's nothing to do with people "hating" others for trying to get something good. It's pointing out that you can't fudge the market with pixie dust and unicorn promises and expect everything to be okay. And billionaires don't typically hoard wealth under the mattress, they invest it back into businesses, creating jobs, driving innovation forward and improving goods and services... And even if they don't, they buy things like cars and yachts! Denmark offers a £15 wage equivalent for its workers at McDonald's. They don't publish specifics for the UK, but profits were over 300 million last year. Their CEO in 2016 was paid $15 million in 2016. They can afford a 500k hike in wages. Do you really think it would only cost an extra 500k per year   are you Dianne Abbots love child !!!!!!! |
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 14, 2019 18:41:08 GMT
That's 500k per restaurant. Applying that to the 1249 restaurants across the UK, that's an extra £585,821,000 in wages they'd have to pay. That dwarfs that 300m profit you're on about. it's only London restaurant staff striking for £15 per hour isn't it? And very few Mcdonalds will have 10 staff on for a whole day. Definitely not 10 hourly paid staff on at a given time for the whole day. Even in London I'd imagine. So London staff think they deserve more than staff in any other parts of the country, I would imagine they already get paid more due to London weighting but they want £15 an hour for flipping burgers and wiping down tables  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 19:03:52 GMT
it's only London restaurant staff striking for £15 per hour isn't it? And very few Mcdonalds will have 10 staff on for a whole day. Definitely not 10 hourly paid staff on at a given time for the whole day. Even in London I'd imagine. So London staff think they deserve more than staff in any other parts of the country, I would imagine they already get paid more due to London weighting but they want £15 an hour for flipping burgers and wiping down tables Most jobs in London have higher pay. And why are you saying that working hard has nothing to do with how skilled your job is. They want £15 ph because that would be enough for them to afford rent, bills, food and an acceptable work/life balance. Why is that wrong? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 19:05:00 GMT
Denmark offers a £15 wage equivalent for its workers at McDonald's. They don't publish specifics for the UK, but profits were over 300 million last year. Their CEO in 2016 was paid $15 million in 2016. They can afford a 500k hike in wages. Do you really think it would only cost an extra 500k per year are you Dianne Abbots love child !!!!!!! I've no idea, I was going off that bloke's calculation. I don't know how much it costs, but I believe that a company should pay its workers a wage they can survive on. |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Nov 14, 2019 19:12:30 GMT
Raising the minimum wage from £8 to £10 to £15 is great in theory.
However, in practice, all it does is leave the shittest jobs, that nobody wants, like 'Mental Health Support Workers' unfilled.
And that includes working with child rapists who have attacked and seriously hurt children but are deemed 'Mentally Incapable'
If you can get £15 an hour stacking shelves in Tesco why on earth would you want a job in an industry where 60,000 people are seriously assaulted every year?
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Post by felonious on Nov 14, 2019 19:31:10 GMT
Do you really think it would only cost an extra 500k per year are you Dianne Abbots love child !!!!!!! I've no idea, I was going off that bloke's calculation. I don't know how much it costs, but I believe that a company should pay its workers a wage they can survive on. What happens if the company doesn't make enough profit to pay higher wages? The retail sector is squeaking at the seams. The Tories have spent the last 10 years bumping up the minimum wage well in excess of inflation, they followed through with a further 3% increase in employers NIC making wages 3% more expensive to employers and on top of this they have forces employers to pay pension payments now up to 3% in the last three years. Clintons is the latest in a long line of businesses begging for some respite. Rents, business rates, water rates, insurance, heat and light, etc, etc cannot come down, the only possibility is to cut back on staff. Would you prose to make buinesses pay £15 per hour until they went bump? The £15 per hour would of cause immediately be supplemented by13.8% employment tax and possibly a 3% pension surcharge and this is without a Corbyn hike. If you think that UK plc employers are raking it in then you are truly ignorant of the facts. The restaurant business sector is well and truly on it's arse in many cases. |
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Post by serpico on Nov 14, 2019 19:35:17 GMT
Raising the minimum wage from £8 to £10 to £15 is great in theory. However, in practice, all it does is leave the shittest jobs, that nobody wants, like 'Mental Health Support Workers' unfilled. And that includes working with child rapists who have attacked and seriously hurt children but are deemed 'Mentally Incapable' If you can get £15 an hour stacking shelves in Tesco why on earth would you want a job in an industry where 60,000 people are seriously assaulted every year? Basically screws up the division of labour, you'd have people of higher IQ going for a job at McDonalds pushing out those who are less academic who'd usually fill those roles. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 19:35:42 GMT
I've no idea, I was going off that bloke's calculation. I don't know how much it costs, but I believe that a company should pay its workers a wage they can survive on. What happens if the company doesn't make enough profit to pay higher wages? The retail sector is squeaking at the seams. The Tories have spent the last 10 years bumping up the minimum wage well in excess of inflation, they followed through with a further 3% increase in employers NIC making wages 3% more expensive to employers and on top of this they have forces employers to pay pension payments now up to 3% in the last three years. Clintons is the latest in a long line of businesses begging for some respite. Rents, business rates, water rates, insurance, heat and light, etc, etc cannot come down, the only possibility is to cut back on staff. Would you prose to make buinesses pay £15 per hour until they went bump? The £15 per hour would of cause immediately be supplemented by13.8% employment tax and possibly a 3% pension surcharge and this is without a Corbyn hike. If you think that UK plc employers are raking it in then you are truly ignorant of the facts. The restaurant business sector is well and truly on it's arse in many cases. Do you really reckon McDonalds don't make the profit to afford to increases London-based restaurant hourly wages? restaurants may not be raking it in, but McDonalds certainly are. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 19:36:27 GMT
Raising the minimum wage from £8 to £10 to £15 is great in theory. However, in practice, all it does is leave the shittest jobs, that nobody wants, like 'Mental Health Support Workers' unfilled. And that includes working with child rapists who have attacked and seriously hurt children but are deemed 'Mentally Incapable' If you can get £15 an hour stacking shelves in Tesco why on earth would you want a job in an industry where 60,000 people are seriously assaulted every year? Basically screws up the division of labour, you'd have people of higher IQ going for a job at McDonalds pushing out those who are less academic who'd usually fill those roles. Or, you increase wages in all low paid jobs to a point where anyone in full time work can afford a house and living essentials. |
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Post by serpico on Nov 14, 2019 19:37:38 GMT
people talk as if someone takes a job at McDonalds and remains there their entire lives, for most its just a stop off job when they're at university or training for something else, very few people stay at McDonalds long term, its a really good entry level job though.
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Post by felonious on Nov 14, 2019 19:39:04 GMT
They are demanding £15 an hour! Really? £15? I remember when a guy who worked at McDonalds over here was asked on TV a few years ago what he earned, and he replied 80 SEK, which is £6.40. The lowest I know of otherwise in Sweden now are the ones who earn 60 SEK (=£4.80), which is pretty bad. Apart from if you calculate what messengers bringing printed advertising to household earn, it's kind of frightening. Most of them are rather young, school teenagers but I've actually seen middle aged people in their 40ies doing it too, it's not an unusual sight these days, both swedes and immigrants. They have normally 200-300 household in their district and it takes normally 2.5 hours = 150 mins. They usually get 100 SEK (£8), which £3.20 wage per hour!! Plus the fact many do this during the black night here now. With no extra compensation for that. I was almost applying for a job for them, but hesitated when I saw the condition. It wasn't as a messenger running around though, but as a controller. I turned the 120 SEK (£9.61) offer down. £15 per hour. That's pretty much exactly the median wage in Sweden for full time work. Wipe out your illusion of Sweden!😉 Many thanks for that Musik, always good to get some insider knowledge to debunk the crap. Are Swedish women really, really ugly?  |
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Post by felonious on Nov 14, 2019 19:50:36 GMT
What happens if the company doesn't make enough profit to pay higher wages? The retail sector is squeaking at the seams. The Tories have spent the last 10 years bumping up the minimum wage well in excess of inflation, they followed through with a further 3% increase in employers NIC making wages 3% more expensive to employers and on top of this they have forces employers to pay pension payments now up to 3% in the last three years. Clintons is the latest in a long line of businesses begging for some respite. Rents, business rates, water rates, insurance, heat and light, etc, etc cannot come down, the only possibility is to cut back on staff. Would you prose to make buinesses pay £15 per hour until they went bump? The £15 per hour would of cause immediately be supplemented by13.8% employment tax and possibly a 3% pension surcharge and this is without a Corbyn hike. If you think that UK plc employers are raking it in then you are truly ignorant of the facts. The restaurant business sector is well and truly on it's arse in many cases. Do you really reckon McDonalds don't make the profit to afford to increases London-based restaurant hourly wages? restaurants may not be raking it in, but McDonalds certainly are. You're talking about all workers getting the wage they need. I'm talking of all businesses out there. A cursory look suggests that individual McDonalds franchises are making a profit of between £75K and 250K. This cash generated from this profit will also be used to pay off the capital sums of loans needed to acquire these businesses upon which the owners will have given personal security and guarantees. If it was that easy to own and run a profitable business everyone would be doing it. Look at the number of staff in any McDonalds and work on three shifts a day. That's the business model once you put the wages through the roof either the business goes up in smoke or the business cuts back on the number of man hours to survive. They're hard economic facts why would any business owner risk their houses and put themselves under enormous daily stress to run a business purely for the benefit of their employees? They might as well go and work for someone else at £15 per hour. The reason people need a pay rise is primarily down to the cost of housing which neither party have addressed in 40? years. |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Nov 14, 2019 19:52:41 GMT
Basically screws up the division of labour, you'd have people of higher IQ going for a job at McDonalds pushing out those who are less academic who'd usually fill those roles. Or, you increase wages in all low paid jobs to a point where anyone in full time work can afford a house and living essentials. Doesn't work like that in the real world. Workers want to maintain 'differentials'. IE "If he's getting £4 an hour wage I want £6 etc etc Wages start to go up but so does the cost of producing things. So prices rise. You end up with a wage-price spiral where the Real wage actually goes down.. (Stagflation) Happened throughout the 1970s. The fundamental flaw in the Lefts argument is that they ignore the fundamental flaw in human nature. Most people are greedy bastards. 😁 |
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 14, 2019 20:03:23 GMT
Do you really think it would only cost an extra 500k per year are you Dianne Abbots love child !!!!!!! I've no idea, I was going off that bloke's calculation. I don't know how much it costs, but I believe that a company should pay its workers a wage they can survive on. What bloke ? |
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Post by felonious on Nov 14, 2019 20:12:51 GMT
I've no idea, I was going off that bloke's calculation. I don't know how much it costs, but I believe that a company should pay its workers a wage they can survive on. What bloke ? Boother. |
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 14, 2019 20:14:03 GMT
So London staff think they deserve more than staff in any other parts of the country, I would imagine they already get paid more due to London weighting but they want £15 an hour for flipping burgers and wiping down tables Most jobs in London have higher pay. And why are you saying that working hard has nothing to do with how skilled your job is. They want £15 ph because that would be enough for them to afford rent, bills, food and an acceptable work/life balance. Why is that wrong? I know that's what I said London weighting is the norm. I didn't say that working hard has nothing to do with how skilled your job is  , if they can't afford to live in London because they work for McDonalds maybe just maybe they should consider moving, when I bought my first house I was still an apprentice engineer my partner was a hairdresser we couldn't afford the mortgage on both wages so I took a second job nights and weekends to make ends meet, what is stopping anyone else doing that mind it was really hard work maybe that is why they don't. If you want something badly enough you get off your arse and find a way to make it happen hardly rocket science even for a dyed in the wool socialist.
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 14, 2019 20:17:09 GMT
Or, you increase wages in all low paid jobs to a point where anyone in full time work can afford a house and living essentials. Doesn't work like that in the real world. Workers want to maintain 'differentials'. IE "If he's getting £4 an hour wage I want £6 etc etc Wages start to go up but so does the cost of producing things. So prices rise. You end up with a wage-price spiral where the Real wage actually goes down.. (Stagflation) Happened throughout the 1970s. The fundamental flaw in the Lefts argument is that they ignore the fundamental flaw in human nature. Most people are greedy bastards. 😁 Including communists, socialists and Marxists the only poor people in China are the lower working low skilled class strange that ! |
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 14, 2019 20:18:46 GMT
Is Lilfraise taking his evidence from a unnamed source  |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Nov 14, 2019 20:22:42 GMT
Doesn't work like that in the real world. Workers want to maintain 'differentials'. IE "If he's getting £4 an hour wage I want £6 etc etc Wages start to go up but so does the cost of producing things. So prices rise. You end up with a wage-price spiral where the Real wage actually goes down.. (Stagflation) Happened throughout the 1970s. The fundamental flaw in the Lefts argument is that they ignore the fundamental flaw in human nature. Most people are greedy bastards. 😁 Including communists, socialists and Marxists the only poor people in China are the lower working low skilled class strange that ! That's why Revolutions never work mate. One set of greedy bastards are replaced with another. (See Venezuela) |
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are you Dianne Abbots love child !!!!!!! 
, if they can't afford to live in London because they work for McDonalds maybe just maybe they should consider moving, when I bought my first house I was still an apprentice engineer my partner was a hairdresser we couldn't afford the mortgage on both wages so I took a second job nights and weekends to make ends meet, what is stopping anyone else doing that mind it was really hard work maybe that is why they don't. If you want something badly enough you get off your arse and find a way to make it happen hardly rocket science even for a dyed in the wool socialist.
