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Post by musik on Nov 15, 2019 14:28:51 GMT
What is meant here by 'Accountable'? Is that implying that if you don't agree you're going to burn in hell? In any case, if you're a good person you have nothing to worry about imo. I trust that if there is a god that by all accounts he will judge people fairly. It just means someone who is not ready to leave the Earth forever. Such a person will have to return. Most people do. To God every believer in Him is ok. Every really good person believe in Him, they just don't know it yet. They show it by their actions.
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Nov 15, 2019 19:28:42 GMT
What is meant here by 'Accountable'? Is that implying that if you don't agree you're going to burn in hell? In any case, if you're a good person you have nothing to worry about imo. I trust that if there is a god that by all accounts he will judge people fairly. It just means someone who is not ready to leave the Earth forever. Such a person will have to return. Most people do. To God every believer in Him is ok. Every really good person believe in Him, they just don't know it yet. What about the ancient Greeks or Egyptians who were around long before Jesus and didn't have the opportunity to follow Jesus and his teachings? Will they burn in hell for all eternity? How is that fair?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 15, 2019 19:42:31 GMT
It just means someone who is not ready to leave the Earth forever. Such a person will have to return. Most people do. To God every believer in Him is ok. Every really good person believe in Him, they just don't know it yet. What about the ancient Greeks or Egyptians who were around long before Jesus and didn't have the opportunity to follow Jesus and his teachings? Will they burn in hell for all eternity? How is that fair? And it just seems wrong that God expects a Native American to understand and buy into Judaeo Christian beliefs and culture in order to gain " salvation" through acceptance of the Messiah. Just an example of Western colonialism , frowned upon by the left. We know best, our culture's best. "traditional tribal religion, Native American Church, and Christianity"...… en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheyenneen.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache
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Post by musik on Nov 15, 2019 21:19:48 GMT
It just means someone who is not ready to leave the Earth forever. Such a person will have to return. Most people do. To God every believer in Him is ok. Every really good person believe in Him, they just don't know it yet. What about the ancient Greeks or Egyptians who were around long before Jesus and didn't have the opportunity to follow Jesus and his teachings? Will they burn in hell for all eternity? How is that fair? Stop!🙂 I'm talking about God. Not Jesus. Every good person ... some are not aware they believe in Him yet, but they do by their actions.
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Post by musik on Nov 15, 2019 21:32:48 GMT
What about the ancient Greeks or Egyptians who were around long before Jesus and didn't have the opportunity to follow Jesus and his teachings? Will they burn in hell for all eternity? How is that fair? And it just seems wrong that God expects a Native American to understand and buy into Judaeo Christian beliefs and culture in order to gain " salvation" through acceptance of the Messiah. Just an example of Western colonialism , frowned upon by the left. We know best, our culture's best. "traditional tribal religion, Native American Church, and Christianity"...… en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheyenneen.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ApacheAgree totally. There is not ONE way, as so many believers of all kind unfortunately say. I'm quite sure God has shown himself to us in many different ways around the globe through the history. It does NOT mean - to me I must say - there is more than one God. God is God, the force, the initial and eternal power, materialized in different ways. If people accepted my view, we wouldn't have any wars "in the name of God".
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Post by riverman on Nov 15, 2019 23:50:34 GMT
It just means someone who is not ready to leave the Earth forever. Such a person will have to return. Most people do. To God every believer in Him is ok. Every really good person believe in Him, they just don't know it yet. What about the ancient Greeks or Egyptians who were around long before Jesus and didn't have the opportunity to follow Jesus and his teachings? Will they burn in hell for all eternity? How is that fair? No one will burn in hell. Why would the devil obey God's will and punish you?If anything he'd reward you for being on his team surely so its win,win. Besides, in all probability neither of them exist so stop worrying about it and just enjoy life,free from religious dogma,oppression and scare tactics.
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Post by felonious on Nov 16, 2019 6:55:56 GMT
I don't believe in an interventionist God.
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Post by felonious on Nov 16, 2019 6:59:08 GMT
Let have a musical interlude from the voice of a real Christian.
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 16, 2019 8:09:15 GMT
It just means someone who is not ready to leave the Earth forever. Such a person will have to return. Most people do. To God every believer in Him is ok. Every really good person believe in Him, they just don't know it yet. What about the ancient Greeks or Egyptians who were around long before Jesus and didn't have the opportunity to follow Jesus and his teachings? Will they burn in hell for all eternity? How is that fair? Well theologians might tell you that when Jesus died he went down to the dead(Hades/Sheol/Hell)& ‘Saved’ them. I think Islam takes another view, in that God performed enough miracles through Aaron & Moses for Pharaoh, but his heart was hard & he rebelled against God.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 16, 2019 8:50:33 GMT
What about the ancient Greeks or Egyptians who were around long before Jesus and didn't have the opportunity to follow Jesus and his teachings? Will they burn in hell for all eternity? How is that fair? Well theologians might tell you that when Jesus died he went down to the dead(Hades/Sheol/Hell)& ‘Saved’ them. I think Islam takes another view, in that God performed enough miracles through Aaron & Moses for Pharaoh, but his heart was hard & he rebelled against God. My view is that Islam recognises all the previous religious leaders as prophets particularly Jesus, who they don't see as God, so that they can Trump Judaism and Christianity.....yes all are prophets, but Mohammed is the greatest prophet and the last.
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 16, 2019 8:55:22 GMT
Well theologians might tell you that when Jesus died he went down to the dead(Hades/Sheol/Hell)& ‘Saved’ them. I think Islam takes another view, in that God performed enough miracles through Aaron & Moses for Pharaoh, but his heart was hard & he rebelled against God. My view is that Islam recognises all the previous religious leaders as prophets particularly Jesus, who they don't see as God, so that they can Trump Judaism and Christianity.....yes all are prophets, but Mohammed is the greatest prophet and the last. I’ve been wading through the Quran over recent months. It makes the Bible read like a renaissance masterpiece.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 16, 2019 9:05:03 GMT
My view is that Islam recognises all the previous religious leaders as prophets particularly Jesus, who they don't see as God, so that they can Trump Judaism and Christianity.....yes all are prophets, but Mohammed is the greatest prophet and the last. I’ve been wading through the Quran over recent months. It makes the Bible read like a renaissance masterpiece. We agree again, I'm going back to bed. I think that the Quran seems to just repetitively " glorify Allah"..thus making a case of..,who can argue with that..,when I've read parts of it. The religion was invented to put Jews and Christians in their place and give identity and obedience to the cause of the Prophet's people in my opinion.
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Nov 16, 2019 9:34:35 GMT
What about the ancient Greeks or Egyptians who were around long before Jesus and didn't have the opportunity to follow Jesus and his teachings? Will they burn in hell for all eternity? How is that fair? No one will burn in hell. Why would the devil obey God's will and punish you?If anything he'd reward you for being on his team surely so its win,win. Besides, in all probability neither of them exist so stop worrying about it and just enjoy life,free from religious dogma,oppression and scare tactics. Believe me, I'm not worrying about it in the slightest. I'm very firmly in the atheist camp. Just wondering what people of faith thought about it that's all.
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Nov 16, 2019 9:38:25 GMT
Well theologians might tell you that when Jesus died he went down to the dead(Hades/Sheol/Hell)& ‘Saved’ them. I think Islam takes another view, in that God performed enough miracles through Aaron & Moses for Pharaoh, but his heart was hard & he rebelled against God. My view is that Islam recognises all the previous religious leaders as prophets particularly Jesus, who they don't see as God, so that they can Trump Judaism and Christianity.....yes all are prophets, but Mohammed is the greatest prophet and the last. It's classic, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water and annoy everyone we're currently hoping to conquer so let's keep a few things they believe in but with a new twist to pacify everyone. There are many, many examples of this happening over the last few thousand years. The same is true of Christianity and keeping Christmas; just dressing it up with a different meaning.
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 16, 2019 9:56:39 GMT
My view is that Islam recognises all the previous religious leaders as prophets particularly Jesus, who they don't see as God, so that they can Trump Judaism and Christianity.....yes all are prophets, but Mohammed is the greatest prophet and the last. It's classic, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water and annoy everyone we're currently hoping to conquer so let's keep a few things they believe in but with a new twist to pacify everyone. There are many, many examples of this happening over the last few thousand years. The same is true of Christianity and keeping Christmas; just dressing it up with a different meaning. The word “Easter” has nothing to do with Christianity. It’s only the Anglo Saxon types that use a derivative of that same word: Northern Europe, us, N America. All others use Paschal(from the Passover, where the blood of the lamb was painted on the Hebrew door posts)or Pascha(not to be confused with Pacha🍒)
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 16, 2019 11:07:01 GMT
It's classic, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water and annoy everyone we're currently hoping to conquer so let's keep a few things they believe in but with a new twist to pacify everyone. There are many, many examples of this happening over the last few thousand years. The same is true of Christianity and keeping Christmas; just dressing it up with a different meaning. The word “Easter” has nothing to do with Christianity. It’s only the Anglo Saxon types that use a derivative of that same word: Northern Europe, us, N America. All others use Paschal(from the Passover, where the blood of the lamb was painted on the Hebrew door posts)or Pascha(not to be confused with Pacha🍒) That may be true but language always evolves. I think that in modern usage most people ( in the Western world of you like) understand Easter to mean the Christian festival that celebrates the death and resurrection of Jesus
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 16, 2019 11:36:24 GMT
The word “Easter” has nothing to do with Christianity. It’s only the Anglo Saxon types that use a derivative of that same word: Northern Europe, us, N America. All others use Paschal(from the Passover, where the blood of the lamb was painted on the Hebrew door posts)or Pascha(not to be confused with Pacha🍒) That may be true but language always evolves. I think that in modern usage most people ( in the Western world of you like) understand Easter to mean the Christian festival that celebrates the death and resurrection of Jesus Its a difficult argument to say that Easter means the death & resurrection of Jesus, when the word comes from the old North European pagan goddess Eostre. The story of Eostre is that a little girl found an injured bird & prayed to Eostre to save it. So the goddess turned the bird into a hare & it was able to run to safety as oppose to fly. As a reward for the girl helping it, the hare used to come back & lay eggs for her amongst the undergrowth & hedges as it still retained some of its bird qualities. Sound familiar...
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 16, 2019 11:46:30 GMT
That may be true but language always evolves. I think that in modern usage most people ( in the Western world of you like) understand Easter to mean the Christian festival that celebrates the death and resurrection of Jesus Its a difficult argument to say that Easter means the death & resurrection of Jesus, when the word comes from the old North European pagan goddess Eostre. The story of Eostre is that a little girl found an injured bird & prayed to Eostre to save it. So the goddess turned the bird into a hare & it was able to run to safety as oppose to fly. As a reward for the girl helping it, the hare used to come back & lay eggs for her amongst the undergrowth & hedges as it still retained some of its bird qualities. Sound familiar... I don't think it is Bath, I'm just talking about present day usage of the word. I don't think people are that bothered about the etymology.
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Post by musik on Nov 16, 2019 13:36:23 GMT
I don't believe in an interventionist God. In religion at school our teacher said the jews don't think God do much, apart from having started it all. A kind of laissez faire-principle. It's reasonable. It would explain much of the misery on Earth.
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Post by felonious on Nov 16, 2019 13:48:29 GMT
I don't believe in an interventionist God. In religion at school our teacher said the jews don't think God do much, apart from having started it all. A kind of laissez faire-principle. It's reasonable. It would explain much of the misery on Earth. Perhaps he made all this misery on earth? Let's face it his followers have made a fairly miserable lot over the centuries.
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 16, 2019 18:32:56 GMT
I don't believe in an interventionist God. Is that a nod to this...
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Post by starkiller on Nov 16, 2019 18:39:01 GMT
I preferred it in the past when there many gods. Far more democratic.
Now it's a dictatorship. And according to this current god's horror book, the Bible, he's an unhinged megalomaniac.
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 16, 2019 18:52:40 GMT
I preferred it in the past when there many gods. Far more democratic. Now it's a dictatorship. And according to this current god's horror book, the Bible, he's an unhinged megalomaniac. Loving it Starkiller, but I think that says more about you than Hymn💋
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Post by marylandstoke on Nov 16, 2019 18:59:33 GMT
It wasn’t originally called Christianity. They were called Followers of the Way... I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except by me....or words to that effect. All the more to support my point....did he envisage a world wide religion....For me there is just as good argument that he was a charismatic wandering preacher who exposed the hypocrisy of the Jewish leaders of the day in the background of Roman occupation whose legend then magnified. How do you think a claim of "virgin birth" would go down today? Isn’t there one twice a week on Jerry Springer?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 16, 2019 19:04:21 GMT
I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except by me....or words to that effect. All the more to support my point....did he envisage a world wide religion....For me there is just as good argument that he was a charismatic wandering preacher who exposed the hypocrisy of the Jewish leaders of the day in the background of Roman occupation whose legend then magnified. How do you think a claim of "virgin birth" would go down today? Isn’t there one twice a week on Jerry Springer? Says it all really....if Mary was on there and said' It was God who got me pregnant, it's his baby, Joseph is just a great guy who's helping me to bring him up"...... I'm not too sure that many people would believe her.
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 16, 2019 19:29:30 GMT
Isn’t there one twice a week on Jerry Springer? Says it all really....if Mary was on there and said' It was God who got me pregnant, it's his baby, Joseph is just a great guy who's helping me to bring him up"...... I'm not too sure that many people would believe her. Greek Mythology is rammed with gods impregnating mortals. Zeus was a serial rapist⚡️
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 16, 2019 19:31:13 GMT
Says it all really....if Mary was on there and said' It was God who got me pregnant, it's his baby, Joseph is just a great guy who's helping me to bring him up"...... I'm not too sure that many people would believe her. Greek Mythology is rammed with gods impregnating mortals. Zeus was a serial rapist⚡️ Myth
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 16, 2019 19:43:47 GMT
Greek Mythology is rammed with gods impregnating mortals. Zeus was a serial rapist⚡️ Myth It took Freud et al 2.5k years to work out the Oedipus, Narcissus, Electra... Myths
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 16, 2019 19:46:48 GMT
It took Freud et al 2.5k years to work out the Oedipus, Narcissus, Electra... Myths I don't think Freud was alive for 2.5k years. There's a bit of a difference in understanding the human mind and a claim that someone was made pregnant by God and someone is the son of God.... Jesus usually referred to himself as the Son of Man, rather than God.
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 16, 2019 20:06:30 GMT
It took Freud et al 2.5k years to work out the Oedipus, Narcissus, Electra... Myths I don't think Freud was alive for 2.5k years. There's a bit of a difference in understanding the human mind and a claim that someone was made pregnant by God and someone is the son of God.... Jesus usually referred to himself as the Son of Man, rather than God. The Greeks made gods out of facets of the human psyche(even Psyche was a Greek god)& it was way after the renaissance that we understood this. Son of Man is used often in the Bible(Old & New Testament) Job, Daniel, Ezekiel... These are prophetic words to the messiah. Jesus alludes to these in his talks, but it is mostly God at Jesus’ Baptism, Transfiguration & crucifixion who calls him his Son & Peter.
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