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Post by mickmillslovechild on Nov 12, 2019 15:29:14 GMT
The Christian god's kid died on a different day every year. Jesus died once. His resurrection is celebrated every year by Christians. It occurs on a different day because the actual crucifixion took place after the Passover, a Jewish feast which has a moveable date each year.So, depending on the date of the Passover, Easter Sunday is celebrated just after. The dates is irrevelant, the fact ( and I do mean fact ) is that Jesus died on that cross for you. Jesus was the Son of God and through Him is your only way to the only God. There are no others.
When you say "and i do mean fact", i presume you actually mean "and i do mean my personal belief, as there is no factual evidence that this event actually even took place and most certainly no way of knowing that he did it for anyone"?
Unless of course you're unaware of what a "Fact" is?
P.S. I have no issue with you believing that at all, but to state it is a "Fact" is just....erm, well completely untrue
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Post by georgieboy52 on Nov 12, 2019 15:41:30 GMT
How can anybody know who supposedly died and for what causes 2000 or so fuckin years ago ?
You don't know what's going on now half the time.
Get rid of this utter preposterous notion of god-for Christ's sake.
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Post by TheProletarian on Nov 12, 2019 15:50:04 GMT
I don’t think any god is good to be honest
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Post by harryburrows on Nov 12, 2019 15:58:48 GMT
Jesus died once. His resurrection is celebrated every year by Christians. It occurs on a different day because the actual crucifixion took place after the Passover, a Jewish feast which has a moveable date each year.So, depending on the date of the Passover, Easter Sunday is celebrated just after. The dates is irrevelant, the fact ( and I do mean fact ) is that Jesus died on that cross for you. Jesus was the Son of God and through Him is your only way to the only God. There are no others. When you say "and i do mean fact", i presume you actually mean "and i do mean my personal belief, as there is no factual evidence that this event actually even took place and most certainly no way of knowing that he did it for anyone"? Unless of course you're unaware of what a "Fact" is? P.S. I have no issue with you believing that at all, but to state it is a "Fact" is just....erm, well completely untrue
I've had this conversation many times,the standard reply is my faith is unshakable so it's fact. Like you I have no problem with faith but it isn't a fact |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2019 17:36:52 GMT
Jesus died once. His resurrection is celebrated every year by Christians. It occurs on a different day because the actual crucifixion took place after the Passover, a Jewish feast which has a moveable date each year.So, depending on the date of the Passover, Easter Sunday is celebrated just after. The dates is irrevelant, the fact ( and I do mean fact ) is that Jesus died on that cross for you. Jesus was the Son of God and through Him is your only way to the only God. There are no others. When you say "and i do mean fact", i presume you actually mean "and i do mean my personal belief, as there is no factual evidence that this event actually even took place and most certainly no way of knowing that he did it for anyone"? Unless of course you're unaware of what a "Fact" is? P.S. I have no issue with you believing that at all, but to state it is a "Fact" is just....erm, well completely untrue
Do yourself a bit of research and find out yourself. Herodotus, Thucydides and most notably Tacitus ( these are the guys that told us all about the Romans, their culture and leaders which is fully accepted as fact ) not only informed us of Caesar but all spoke of an extraordinary character named Jesus who declared himself the Son of God. This same character was mentioned in Caesars Gallic War and Livys Roman History. All these are renowned books on that period, accepted by all scholars and form the basis of the Roman history we know today. So, it’s pretty clear that Jesus Christ existed and was crucified.The only question you have is was He the Son of God as He claimed. That’s for each of us to discover, you either accept it or reject it, there is no middle ground and each of us will be accountable for our own choice. If you do accept it you will see that it becomes an undeniable fact, that’s what happened to me and that’s why I know it’s fact and not fiction. |
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Nov 12, 2019 17:52:08 GMT
When you say "and i do mean fact", i presume you actually mean "and i do mean my personal belief, as there is no factual evidence that this event actually even took place and most certainly no way of knowing that he did it for anyone"? Unless of course you're unaware of what a "Fact" is? P.S. I have no issue with you believing that at all, but to state it is a "Fact" is just....erm, well completely untrue
Do yourself a bit of research and find out yourself. Herodotus, Thucydides and most notably Tacitus ( these are the guys that told us all about the Romans, their culture and leaders which is fully accepted as fact ) not only informed us of Caesar but all spoke of an extraordinary character named Jesus who declared himself the Son of God. This same character was mentioned in Caesars Gallic War and Livys Roman History. All these are renowned books on that period, accepted by all scholars and form the basis of the Roman history we know today. So, it’s pretty clear that Jesus Christ existed and was crucified.The only question you have is was He the Son of God as He claimed. That’s for each of us to discover, you either accept it or reject it, there is no middle ground and each of us will be accountable for our own choice. If you do accept it you will see that it becomes an undeniable fact, that’s what happened to me and that’s why I know it’s fact and not fiction.
As i said earlier, you may need to research what a "Fact" is.
A fact isn't just something that you believe, regardless of how much you believe it. A fact is true and can be proven to be true, NOT something you believe in due to faith and therefore believe it A LOT so therefore can delare as a "Fact". It isn't something that becomes a "Fact" just because someone does or doesn't accept it....if it is a "Fact" then it's true regardless of how many people believe it or how many people accept it.
As i said, i have no issue whatsoever with your faith (all power to you) and the faith of many, many others but just because you believe something strongly and many others do, that doesn't make it a "Fact" i'm afraid. A belief, yes...a calling, yes....a devotion, yes but none of those things make something a fact i'm afraid e.g. i myself (and millions of others) don't believe in God or that Jesus died for me. That doesn't make it a fact that God doesn't exist however (no matter how strongly i believe it) and it doens't make it a fact that Jesus didn't die for me.....no-one will ever know if Jesus died for us as the ONLY person that has ever existed (if Jesus did exist, which i fully accept he may well have) that can ever or will ever know it is the man himself.
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Post by musik on Nov 12, 2019 18:06:31 GMT
Do yourself a bit of research and find out yourself. Herodotus, Thucydides and most notably Tacitus ( these are the guys that told us all about the Romans, their culture and leaders which is fully accepted as fact ) not only informed us of Caesar but all spoke of an extraordinary character named Jesus who declared himself the Son of God. This same character was mentioned in Caesars Gallic War and Livys Roman History. All these are renowned books on that period, accepted by all scholars and form the basis of the Roman history we know today. So, it’s pretty clear that Jesus Christ existed and was crucified. Interesting stuff! Thanks! 👍 |
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Post by musik on Nov 12, 2019 18:12:56 GMT
if it is a "Fact" then it's true regardless of how many people believe it or how many people accept it. just because you believe something strongly and many others do, [and many do not] that doesn't make it a "Fact" i'm afraid. It could be a fact, then. 🤪 Perhaps not proven in this materialistic world, but in the afterlife. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2019 19:14:40 GMT
Do yourself a bit of research and find out yourself. Herodotus, Thucydides and most notably Tacitus ( these are the guys that told us all about the Romans, their culture and leaders which is fully accepted as fact ) not only informed us of Caesar but all spoke of an extraordinary character named Jesus who declared himself the Son of God. This same character was mentioned in Caesars Gallic War and Livys Roman History. All these are renowned books on that period, accepted by all scholars and form the basis of the Roman history we know today. So, it’s pretty clear that Jesus Christ existed and was crucified.The only question you have is was He the Son of God as He claimed. That’s for each of us to discover, you either accept it or reject it, there is no middle ground and each of us will be accountable for our own choice. If you do accept it you will see that it becomes an undeniable fact, that’s what happened to me and that’s why I know it’s fact and not fiction. As i said earlier, you may need to research what a "Fact" is.
A fact isn't just something that you believe, regardless of how much you believe it. A fact is true and can be proven to be true, NOT something you believe in due to faith and therefore believe it A LOT so therefore can delare as a "Fact". It isn't something that becomes a "Fact" just because someone does or doesn't accept it....if it is a "Fact" then it's true regardless of how many people believe it or how many people accept it.
As i said, i have no issue whatsoever with your faith (all power to you) and the faith of many, many others but just because you believe something strongly and many others do, that doesn't make it a "Fact" i'm afraid. A belief, yes...a calling, yes....a devotion, yes but none of those things make something a fact i'm afraid e.g. i myself (and millions of others) don't believe in God or that Jesus died for me. That doesn't make it a fact that God doesn't exist however (no matter how strongly i believe it) and it doens't make it a fact that Jesus didn't die for me.....no-one will ever know if Jesus died for us as the ONLY person that has ever existed (if Jesus did exist, which i fully accept he may well have) that can ever or will ever know it is the man himself.
I have no problems with what you say, it’s your choice to believe what you wish but one day you will know for sure that Jesus died for you personally. I once thought exactly the same as you. Now I see it differently and I am 100% certain I’m right and I know it as a fact, I can’t explain it any other way. If you know then you know for sure, 100%. |
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Nov 12, 2019 19:49:42 GMT
As i said earlier, you may need to research what a "Fact" is.
A fact isn't just something that you believe, regardless of how much you believe it. A fact is true and can be proven to be true, NOT something you believe in due to faith and therefore believe it A LOT so therefore can delare as a "Fact". It isn't something that becomes a "Fact" just because someone does or doesn't accept it....if it is a "Fact" then it's true regardless of how many people believe it or how many people accept it.
As i said, i have no issue whatsoever with your faith (all power to you) and the faith of many, many others but just because you believe something strongly and many others do, that doesn't make it a "Fact" i'm afraid. A belief, yes...a calling, yes....a devotion, yes but none of those things make something a fact i'm afraid e.g. i myself (and millions of others) don't believe in God or that Jesus died for me. That doesn't make it a fact that God doesn't exist however (no matter how strongly i believe it) and it doens't make it a fact that Jesus didn't die for me.....no-one will ever know if Jesus died for us as the ONLY person that has ever existed (if Jesus did exist, which i fully accept he may well have) that can ever or will ever know it is the man himself.
I have no problems with what you say, it’s your choice to believe what you wish but one day you will know for sure that Jesus died for you personally. I once thought exactly the same as you. Now I see it differently and I am 100% certain I’m right and I know it as a fact, I can’t explain it any other way. If you know then you know for sure, 100%. What made you have this revelation, out of interest? |
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Post by foster on Nov 13, 2019 14:34:50 GMT
I have no problems with what you say, it’s your choice to believe what you wish but one day you will know for sure that Jesus died for you personally. I once thought exactly the same as you. Now I see it differently and I am 100% certain I’m right and I know it as a fact, I can’t explain it any other way. If you know then you know for sure, 100%. What made you have this revelation, out of interest? I think it was the moment that 4th goal went in for us last Saturday. |
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Post by felonious on Nov 13, 2019 18:16:06 GMT
What made you have this revelation, out of interest? I think it was the moment that 4th goal went in for us last Saturday. Well that was a revelation. |
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 13, 2019 19:24:08 GMT
I have no problems with what you say, it’s your choice to believe what you wish but one day you will know for sure that Jesus died for you personally. I once thought exactly the same as you. Now I see it differently and I am 100% certain I’m right and I know it as a fact, I can’t explain it any other way. If you know then you know for sure, 100%. What made you have this revelation, out of interest? I’ve had many Revelations since becoming a Christian at 19. I had one of a pyramid of deities with Jesus at the top, But the story of the bible using Jesus as it’s allegory is a great piece of work... |
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Post by felonious on Nov 13, 2019 19:46:54 GMT
What made you have this revelation, out of interest? I’ve had many Revelations since becoming a Christian at 19. I had one of a pyramid of deities with Jesus at the top, But the story of the bible using Jesus as it’s allegory is a great piece of work... I'm sure many druggies have experienced similar. |
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 13, 2019 20:10:45 GMT
I’ve had many Revelations since becoming a Christian at 19. I had one of a pyramid of deities with Jesus at the top, But the story of the bible using Jesus as it’s allegory is a great piece of work... I'm sure many druggies have experienced similar. Philistine |
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Post by felonious on Nov 14, 2019 7:13:45 GMT
I'm sure many druggies have experienced similar. Philistine Are they better or worse than fake Christians Bath? I admire people who have the ability to go to their church, to learn something from the experience and then to go and put that learning into practise in the outside world. There are some terrible "Christians" out there alongside the ones who understand the message and have something to offer the world. I've certainly observed more than a few unkind Christians in my life together with many kind atheists. Calling yourself a Christian is pointless, it's how you conduct yourself. There are many people out there that call themselves Christian and believe in a smug, deluded way that it makes them better than others but at least for every one of those there are kind Christians out there doing good in the world. |
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 14, 2019 8:02:20 GMT
Are they better or worse than fake Christians Bath? I admire people who have the ability to go to their church, to learn something from the experience and then to go and put that learning into practise in the outside world. There are some terrible "Christians" out there alongside the ones who understand the message and have something to offer the world. I've certainly observed more than a few unkind Christians in my life together with many kind atheists. Calling yourself a Christian is pointless, it's how you conduct yourself. There are many people out there that call themselves Christian and believe in a smug, deluded way that it makes them better than others but at least for every one of those there are kind Christians out there doing good in the world. Then Levi gave Him a great feast in his own house. And there were a great number of tax collectors and others who sat down with them. And their scribes and the Pharisees complained against His disciples, saying, “Why do You eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?” Jesus answered and said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” |
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Post by felonious on Nov 14, 2019 10:06:10 GMT
Are they better or worse than fake Christians Bath? I admire people who have the ability to go to their church, to learn something from the experience and then to go and put that learning into practise in the outside world. There are some terrible "Christians" out there alongside the ones who understand the message and have something to offer the world. I've certainly observed more than a few unkind Christians in my life together with many kind atheists. Calling yourself a Christian is pointless, it's how you conduct yourself. There are many people out there that call themselves Christian and believe in a smug, deluded way that it makes them better than others but at least for every one of those there are kind Christians out there doing good in the world. Then Levi gave Him a great feast in his own house. And there were a great number of tax collectors and others who sat down with them. And their scribes and the Pharisees complained against His disciples, saying, “Why do You eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?” Jesus answered and said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” Meaningless Bath. Passages from the bible have been quoted for centuries by sociopaths, psychopaths, mass murderers, etc. It's what people learn from the process and whether they practise what they've learned. |
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 14, 2019 10:28:31 GMT
Then Levi gave Him a great feast in his own house. And there were a great number of tax collectors and others who sat down with them. And their scribes and the Pharisees complained against His disciples, saying, “Why do You eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?” Jesus answered and said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” Meaningless Bath. Passages from the bible have been quoted for centuries by sociopaths, psychopaths, mass murderers, etc. It's what people learn from the process and whether they practise what they've learned. The living Word of God, Meaningless... |
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Post by felonious on Nov 14, 2019 10:38:25 GMT
Meaningless Bath. Passages from the bible have been quoted for centuries by sociopaths, psychopaths, mass murderers, etc. It's what people learn from the process and whether they practise what they've learned. The living Word of God, Meaningless... In the wrong hands Bath. People will always twist words  |
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 14, 2019 10:44:21 GMT
The living Word of God, Meaningless... In the wrong hands Bath. People will always twist words They’re not that hard to spot, but the gullible may be fooled... |
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Post by felonious on Nov 14, 2019 10:56:16 GMT
In the wrong hands Bath. People will always twist words They’re not that hard to spot, but the gullible may be fooled... I know a few true Christians Bath so I know how high the bar is set. I know a few absolute stinkers that attend a church every week. It's what people do with it Bath, what people do with it. |
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 14, 2019 10:59:38 GMT
They’re not that hard to spot, but the gullible may be fooled... I know a few true Christians Bath so I know how high the bar is set. I know a few absolute stinkers that attend a church every week. It's what people do with it Bath, what people do with it. Of course. A Tree shall be known by the fruit it bares... |
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Post by yeokel on Nov 14, 2019 11:02:46 GMT
Are they better or worse than fake Christians Bath? I admire people who have the ability to go to their church, to learn something from the experience and then to go and put that learning into practise in the outside world. There are some terrible "Christians" out there alongside the ones who understand the message and have something to offer the world. I've certainly observed more than a few unkind Christians in my life together with many kind atheists. Calling yourself a Christian is pointless, it's how you conduct yourself. There are many people out there that call themselves Christian and believe in a smug, deluded way that it makes them better than others but at least for every one of those there are kind Christians out there doing good in the world. Then Levi gave Him a great feast in his own house. And there were a great number of tax collectors and others who sat down with them. And their scribes and the Pharisees complained against His disciples, saying, “Why do You eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?”.” Jesus answered and said to them “ Do not see tax collectors as a negative, evil force. See them instead as wealth re-distributers. See them as redistributors of wealth from the not-needy to the needy, from the wealthy to the poor, from the fortunate to the unfortunate.
A tax collector is your friend not your enemy.
And the Sinner. Is he not your friend too? Are you not willing to see that he repents of his sins and is now a good person who will not re-sin once you’ve accepted him back in to your society as your friend?” And Levi replied “ My lord, what a load of old bollocks!” |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 15, 2019 8:16:58 GMT
It is considered that the first gospel was written at least 60 years after the birth of Christ by people eho were not around at the time of the ' conception'....who usually is other than the parents?
If a claim of a miraculous conception and a Virgin birth was made today it would be be ridiculed....I think that there would by far be a belief that Joseph had got Mary up the duff. I think that even those who call themselves Christians would be sceptical. Obviously with DNA they could not get away euth it or presumably if the Son of God appeared, let's say in Japan in 2023 then we'd be able to obtain some of the DNA of God ( presuming it's not Roger).
I think that the virgin and the miracles are two things amongst others that throw doubt on Jesus being God. By necessity his type of concept of God has to rely heavily on the past. Every society seems to need a belief system to give meaning to birth, life and death....why should the Native American one be less valued than Christianity.... some NAs give Christianity as their second religion... which to me is a nonsense.
It's interesting that he came out of the Jewish tradition, was Jewish and as far as we know did not abandon Judaism.
I'm not sure that he wanted to start a religion called Christianity.
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 15, 2019 9:57:26 GMT
It is considered that the first gospel was written at least 60 years after the birth of Christ by people eho were not around at the time of the ' conception'....who usually is other than the parents? If a claim of a miraculous conception and a Virgin birth was made today it would be be ridiculed....I think that there would by far be a belief that Joseph had got Mary up the duff. I think that even those who call themselves Christians would be sceptical. Obviously with DNA they could not get away euth it or presumably if the Son of God appeared, let's say in Japan in 2023 then we'd be able to obtain some of the DNA of God ( presuming it's not Roger). I think that the virgin and the miracles are two things amongst others that throw doubt on Jesus being God. By necessity his type of concept of God has to rely heavily on the past. Every society seems to need a belief system to give meaning to birth, life and death....why should the Native American one be less valued than Christianity.... some NAs give Christianity as their second religion... which to me is a nonsense. It's interesting that he came out of the Jewish tradition, was Jewish and as far as we know did not abandon Judaism. I'm not sure that he wanted to start a religion called Christianity. It wasn’t originally called Christianity. They were called Followers of the Way... |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 15, 2019 10:50:59 GMT
It is considered that the first gospel was written at least 60 years after the birth of Christ by people eho were not around at the time of the ' conception'....who usually is other than the parents? If a claim of a miraculous conception and a Virgin birth was made today it would be be ridiculed....I think that there would by far be a belief that Joseph had got Mary up the duff. I think that even those who call themselves Christians would be sceptical. Obviously with DNA they could not get away with it or presumably if the Son of God appeared, let's say in Japan in 2023 then we'd be able to obtain some of the DNA of God ( presuming it's not Roger). I think that the virgin and the miracles are two things amongst others that throw doubt on Jesus being God. By necessity his type of concept of God has to rely heavily on the past. Every society seems to need a belief system to give meaning to birth, life and death....why should the Native American one be less valued than Christianity.... some NAs give Christianity as their second religion... which to me is a nonsense. It's interesting that he came out of the Jewish tradition, was Jewish and as far as we know did not abandon Judaism. I'm not sure that he wanted to start a religion called Christianity. It wasn’t originally called Christianity. They were called Followers of the Way... I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except by me....or words to that effect. All the more to support my point....did he envisage a world wide religion....For me there is just as good argument that he was a charismatic wandering preacher who exposed the hypocrisy of the Jewish leaders of the day in the background of Roman occupation whose legend then magnified. How do you think a claim of "virgin birth" would go down today? |
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Post by foster on Nov 15, 2019 11:09:24 GMT
When you say "and i do mean fact", i presume you actually mean "and i do mean my personal belief, as there is no factual evidence that this event actually even took place and most certainly no way of knowing that he did it for anyone"? Unless of course you're unaware of what a "Fact" is? P.S. I have no issue with you believing that at all, but to state it is a "Fact" is just....erm, well completely untrue
Do yourself a bit of research and find out yourself. Herodotus, Thucydides and most notably Tacitus ( these are the guys that told us all about the Romans, their culture and leaders which is fully accepted as fact ) not only informed us of Caesar but all spoke of an extraordinary character named Jesus who declared himself the Son of God. This same character was mentioned in Caesars Gallic War and Livys Roman History. All these are renowned books on that period, accepted by all scholars and form the basis of the Roman history we know today. So, it’s pretty clear that Jesus Christ existed and was crucified.The only question you have is was He the Son of God as He claimed. That’s for each of us to discover, you either accept it or reject it, there is no middle ground and each of us will be accountable for our own choice. If you do accept it you will see that it becomes an undeniable fact, that’s what happened to me and that’s why I know it’s fact and not fiction. No issue with people being religious, but I don't particularly like the veiled threat of this word. What is meant here by 'Accountable'? Is that implying that if you don't agree you're going to burn in hell? In any case, if you're a good person you have nothing to worry about imo. I trust that if there is a god that by all accounts he will judge people fairly. (see that 'judged by the fruit you bare' quote earlier). |
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 15, 2019 11:57:12 GMT
It wasn’t originally called Christianity. They were called Followers of the Way... I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except by me....or words to that effect. All the more to support my point....did he envisage a world wide religion....For me there is just as good argument that he was a charismatic wandering preacher who exposed the hypocrisy of the Jewish leaders of the day in the background of Roman occupation whose legend then magnified. How do you think a claim of "virgin birth" would go down today? Although Islam doesn’t agree that Jesus was the Son of God, they do believe in his virgin birth. I think the amount of miracles attributed to Jesus & what he claimed of himself negate any claim that he was just a charismatic teacher. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 15, 2019 12:06:33 GMT
I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except by me....or words to that effect. All the more to support my point....did he envisage a world wide religion....For me there is just as good argument that he was a charismatic wandering preacher who exposed the hypocrisy of the Jewish leaders of the day in the background of Roman occupation whose legend then magnified. How do you think a claim of "virgin birth" would go down today? Although Islam doesn’t agree that Jesus was the Son of God, they do believe in his virgin birth. I think the amount of miracles attributed to Jesus & what he claimed of himself negate any claim that he was just a charismatic teacher. I'm wondering how such claims would stand up in modern times. It's easier to accept legendary events if they are in the past and can't be scrutinised.We only really have his followers' , the believers' word for it. ....I don't think a sample of Jesus's DNA would reveal non human matter in my opinion. More likely that he was the child of Mary and Joseph. |
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