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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2019 13:41:18 GMT
Yeah me too for sure. But CCV at right back and Bruno at left back, kind of reinforces my point about not having the full backs available to give us the width (necessary) for a diamond. Both Jones and Rowett have recruited shockingly and if it wasn't for the players that were signed before either of them had arrived, then we'd be long gone by now (if we aren't already). I'm very surprised he's not tried Clucas at LB, he's tried everything else! He'd be our best left back but at the same time he's actually one of the few in the middle with the composure and confidence to get goals and assists. This works for me, BMI at left back, I actually thought he looked reasonably good.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Oct 6, 2019 13:42:23 GMT
I think swapping Gregory for Vokes would see us lose more than we'd gain, I know Gregory isn't great in front of goal but he gets about well and gets at the oppo defence, Vokes hardly moves. Gregory works tirelessly, but there's no real quality to his hold up play, I'm not convinced he should be a regular starter. We are struggling for any real quality up front, which in my view is the main reason we got relegated. Vokes turns like a barge and is so slow for a pro footballer, but when he came on he gave Swansea's defence something to worry about in the air, which allowed Hogan to run around sniffing for scraps, and how we got our winner. Campbell got a rare start and blew it, he was very ineffective, I want him to work as there's so much potential and he can actually shoot when running at pace which we've lacked since Fuller. [/quote] Disagree that Campbell blew his chance. He was pretty good I thought, ran around tirelessly and effectively stretched their back line. The one time he didn't he was hooked, which was the right decision at that time. Everything doesn't have to be black or white, it can be somewhere in the middle.
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Post by rawli on Oct 6, 2019 13:46:23 GMT
I'd sell both Mclean and Ince to fund a solid left back in January. Unsellable. Struggle to give them away.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2019 14:07:13 GMT
I'm surprised it's taken him this long to put BMI back at left back, I thought he'd do it against Huddersfield. Bruno doesn't especially like playing there, but he won't complain, in public at least.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2019 14:08:51 GMT
I'm very surprised he's not tried Clucas at LB, he's tried everything else! He'd be our best left back but at the same time he's actually one of the few in the middle with the composure and confidence to get goals and assists. This works for me, BMI at left back, I actually thought he looked reasonably good. If we played him there perhaps he could stop playing half the time.
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Post by supacoopa101 on Oct 6, 2019 14:10:52 GMT
I'd sell both Mclean and Ince to fund a solid left back in January. Unsellable. Struggle to give them away. Ince we could get something but obviously not as much as we paid. McLean would be difficult to move though.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 6, 2019 15:19:34 GMT
Ince is a talented footballer with an attitude problem.
McClean is a limited footballer with an excellent attitude.
Given where we are I don't have too much problem keeping McClean - especially if on occasion we play a back 5 - but we'd only miss Ince if he actually bothered to knuckle down and deliver on his talent.
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Post by elystokie on Oct 6, 2019 15:22:13 GMT
Unsellable. Struggle to give them away. Ince we could get something but obviously not as much as we paid. McLean would be difficult to move though. Just have to hope Rowett gets a job somewhere soon and that he has a ridiculously large budget when he does. Highly unlikely
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Post by smallthorner on Oct 6, 2019 15:47:40 GMT
Well I'll put my tin hat on and say that I didn't see that much from our strikers today. Campbell offered very little and looked lazy to me, Gregory works his nads off but really, his finishing is dreadful. Vokes has offered very little when he's played this season but to be fair to Hogan, he's not played that much and did get the goal today. We definitely do have to play two up top though because there isn't anybody in the squad who is remotely good enough to do it on their own. We've almost certainly got the best midfield in the Championship but I genuinely think that there are serious questions marks over the personnel in both the attack and the defence. The midfield won that game today for me (they were excellent) and although there was a brief patch of backs to the wall defending in the second half (showing that they were indeed still playing for Jones) I still don't think we have the full-backs to provide the width we need when playing the diamond. I am worried that in the main, the players that we're relying on, weren't signed by either Jones or Rowett. Spot-on. If we can keep Badou and Etebo as our engine room for the rest of the season we should be ok. Nathan needs to settle down. Keep a settled team as much as possible.. And stop spouting shit. I'd seriously think about Hart doing his press conferences from now on. Bore us to death. But at least keep the emotion away.
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Post by spitthedog on Oct 6, 2019 16:08:17 GMT
Well I'll put my tin hat on and say that I didn't see that much from our strikers today. Campbell offered very little and looked lazy to me, Gregory works his nads off but really, his finishing is dreadful. Vokes has offered very little when he's played this season but to be fair to Hogan, he's not played that much and did get the goal today. We definitely do have to play two up top though because there isn't anybody in the squad who is remotely good enough to do it on their own. We've almost certainly got the best midfield in the Championship but I genuinely think that there are serious questions marks over the personnel in both the attack and the defence. The midfield won that game today for me (they were excellent) and although there was a brief patch of backs to the wall defending in the second half (showing that they were indeed still playing for Jones) I still don't think we have the full-backs to provide the width we need when playing the diamond. I am worried that in the main, the players that we're relying on, weren't signed by either Jones or Rowett. I'm of similar mindset. The midfield were outstanding yesterday and wasn't this quite similar to how he set up the midfield against Leeds when we beat them? I particularly liked the way we looked to move the ball quickly along the ground AND forward too!!!!!....Hallelujah! We would not have scored in a month of Sundays with Campbell and Gregory yesterday though. They were both pretty dreadful. Gregory didn't even hold the ball up well and that's the only thing he is supposed to be able to do. Has to be 2 up, but we have 4 poor strikers on the books imho. Hogan knows where the net is, but you don't have to research his career too much to discover how he has a habit of disappearing from games. Villa and Brentford fans often commented on his incredible ability to get through a whole game with just 3 touches of the ball. With Vokes you've got to be able to get lots of good high balls into the box for any payoff. Defence is still worrying, though they played above themselves yesterday. Switched off a couple of times but got away with it. There is not much chance of pace or creativity coming from the left side though. McClean experiment has been a failure. With Edwards we have the ability to deliver a great ball but dodgy defending is the price for that. Still a lot of work to do....and still lots of question marks over too many of our players.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 6, 2019 16:59:31 GMT
Surprised more hasn't been said about Campbell on here. I thought he did quite well to be fair. Ran the channels really well and gave our midfielders more of an outlet and Gregory more support. Wasn't perfect and will get better but he made a huge difference relative to what I have seen recently. I'd start him and Gregory next game in spite of Hogan's goal. He’s been panned generally but that is the game I saw from Campbell.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 6, 2019 17:04:03 GMT
Surprised more hasn't been said about Campbell on here. I thought he did quite well to be fair. Ran the channels really well and gave our midfielders more of an outlet and Gregory more support. Wasn't perfect and will get better but he made a huge difference relative to what I have seen recently. I'd start him and Gregory next game in spite of Hogan's goal. He’s been panned generally but that is the game I saw from Campbell. I'm not sure we can afford the time needed for Campbell to bed in. It's Hogan for me.
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Post by march4 on Oct 6, 2019 17:04:44 GMT
Nothing to do with team selection.
All to do with the players making some effort in anticipation of a new manager appearing before our next game.
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Post by Davef on Oct 6, 2019 17:06:42 GMT
Nothing to do with team selection. All to do with the players making some effort in anticipation of a new manager appearing before our next game. Give it a rest, for heaven's sake.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 6, 2019 17:08:58 GMT
Nothing to do with team selection. All to do with the players making some effort in anticipation of a new manager appearing before our next game. Give it a rest, for heaven's sake. God willing he will ;-)
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Post by kronkie on Oct 6, 2019 17:10:11 GMT
No Lindsey as well, now there's a man stealing a wage.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 6, 2019 17:10:47 GMT
He’s been panned generally but that is the game I saw from Campbell. I'm not sure we can afford the time needed for Campbell to bed in. It's Hogan for me. Yeah I’d play Hogan and Vokes.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2019 17:13:30 GMT
McClean should be selling toothpaste! I know the spelling is different before you start!!!!!, lol.
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Post by elystokie on Oct 6, 2019 17:30:54 GMT
Nothing to do with team selection. All to do with the players making some effort in anticipation of a new manager appearing before our next game. With 10 being the most and 1 being the least gutted, on a scale of 1 to 10 were you at 8, 9 or 10 when our last minute winner went in?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 6, 2019 17:35:40 GMT
I'm not sure we can afford the time needed for Campbell to bed in. It's Hogan for me. Yeah I’d play Hogan and Vokes. Yeah, they need 5 or 6 games to develop a partnership and in Vokes case to get match fit. Gregory is fine off the bench if we're ahead. Campbell fine from the bench if we're losing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2019 18:45:36 GMT
Surprised more hasn't been said about Campbell on here. I thought he did quite well to be fair. Ran the channels really well and gave our midfielders more of an outlet and Gregory more support. Wasn't perfect and will get better but he made a huge difference relative to what I have seen recently. I'd start him and Gregory next game in spite of Hogan's goal. Two players that don't score goals preferred to one who does...that's exactly what has got us into this mess (and a few errors at the back too)
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Post by spitthedog on Oct 6, 2019 19:23:49 GMT
Surprised more hasn't been said about Campbell on here. I thought he did quite well to be fair. Ran the channels really well and gave our midfielders more of an outlet and Gregory more support. Wasn't perfect and will get better but he made a huge difference relative to what I have seen recently. I'd start him and Gregory next game in spite of Hogan's goal. Two players that don't score goals preferred to one who does...that's exactly what has got us into this mess (and a few errors at the back too) Gregory and Campbell are a relegation pairing. Our midfield were brilliant yesterday and our defence held firm, but those 2 forwards couldn't take advantage of the chances that were created for them. I don't think Gregory won a ball in the air & missed 3 sitters. Those 2 didn't contribute towards us winning the game at all, in fact, they nearly blew it for us. I have big doubts about Vokes and Hogan, but you could tell when they came on that they have at least been there and done it. If Campbell has got something to offer other than raw pace, he's got to show it very, very soon.
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Post by skelman on Oct 6, 2019 19:25:14 GMT
I'm very surprised he's not tried Clucas at LB, he's tried everything else! He'd be our best left back but at the same time he's actually one of the few in the middle with the composure and confidence to get goals and assists. This works for me, BMI at left back, I actually thought he looked reasonably good. Agreed Clucas is starting to add to our midfield and is too valuable there. We have to recruit a proper left back in January!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2019 19:26:44 GMT
He'd be our best left back but at the same time he's actually one of the few in the middle with the composure and confidence to get goals and assists. This works for me, BMI at left back, I actually thought he looked reasonably good. Agreed Clucas is starting to add to our midfield and is too valuable there. We have to recruit a proper left back in January! Hopefully when Jones is very well down the road to pastures new.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2019 19:48:44 GMT
You'd reckon most likely vs Fulham (injuries allowing) we'd have something like:
Federici Edwards Batth CCV BMI Badou Etebo Clucas Allen Gregory Hogan
I think Campbell struggled yesterday, and he didn't really show his best attributes. Gregory's finishing was off but his overall game was pretty good. I still worry about Allen, and I still think he's shit, but we'll never see him dropped now after a 7/10 game. Personally I'd have the above with Duffy at 10 for Allen.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2019 21:16:26 GMT
You'd reckon most likely vs Fulham (injuries allowing) we'd have something like: Federici Edwards Batth CCV BMI Badou Etebo Clucas Allen Gregory Hogan I think Campbell struggled yesterday, and he didn't really show his best attributes. Gregory's finishing was off but his overall game was pretty good. I still worry about Allen, and I still think he's shit, but we'll never see him dropped now after a 7/10 game. Personally I'd have the above with Duffy at 10 for Allen. No McClean?
He will be first name on the sheet. Jones simply never learns anything.
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Post by redandy on Oct 6, 2019 22:04:36 GMT
I think swapping Gregory for Vokes would see us lose more than we'd gain, I know Gregory isn't great in front of goal but he gets about well and gets at the oppo defence, Vokes hardly moves. Gregory works tirelessly, but there's no real quality to his hold up play, I'm not convinced he should be a regular starter. We are struggling for any real quality up front, which in my view is the main reason we got relegated. Vokes turns like a barge and is so slow for a pro footballer, but when he came on he gave Swansea's defence something to worry about in the air, which allowed Hogan to run around sniffing for scraps, and how we got our winner. Campbell got a rare start and blew it, he was very ineffective, I want him to work as there's so much potential and he can actually shoot when running at pace which we've lacked since Fuller. Disagree that Campbell blew his chance. He was pretty good I thought, ran around tirelessly and effectively stretched their back line. The one time he didn't he was hooked, which was the right decision at that time. Everything doesn't have to be black or white, it can be somewhere in the middle. [/quote] Ok grey then I understand the attributes of Campbell's raw pace and ability to go past a defender, with a decent shot to boot. But for me he needs more time and a little game craft. But now is not the time for bedding in potential, we are in a relegation scrap right now with a quarter of a season gone. I appreciate where you're coming from and both strikers in the first half ran around a lot, stretching the defence and then Swansea were then given a whole different scenario to deal with, with our subs. The biggest difference was the change of shape which allowed us more width / crossing and to run at them from midfield. The truth is, unless there is a drastic change in form, sadly our strikers just aren't very good. We need pace, power and a little more finishing ability ..... I still miss seeing Arnie and Fuller giving defenders nightmares, it seems a lifetime ago.
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Post by musik on Oct 7, 2019 0:37:29 GMT
Did I see that Jones said (surprise!) that it was the first time he'd been able to pick his first choice XI. Why was that. Surely nothing stopping them being picked before except perhaps stupity or bad advice. There are two possible explanations to this. 1) Earlier, Paul Hart has given him an advice before every match what players he should pick in every position based on a calculated scientific approach, considering their knocks, day form and so on. Then it's been up to NJ to make a formation out of it. Vs Swansea he could have said, "no way I will be able to continue here as a Manager, since Swansea will be a too tough opponent. I might as well pick the players without any other info. My gut feeling, Hart, my gut feeling, just for once at last." Some here have pointed out Hart didn't celebrate the win at all, looked frosty vs NJ, and this might explains it. OR 2) It's a wrong interpretation of what he actually meant. He didn't mean it was the first time he actually could pick them, he meant it was the first time the players he ranked top 11 on match day did perform to that level he thought and expected his top 11 he picked could perform. He means he can't be blamed for selections he's made earlier, since they haven't reached their standard. It was the first time it was showed vs Swansea. The starting XIs before wouldn't have been his starting XIs if he had known some of them were poor.
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Post by drippinggoatsnob on Oct 7, 2019 6:36:35 GMT
I'm not sure we can afford the time needed for Campbell to bed in. It's Hogan for me. Yeah I’d play Hogan and Vokes. And people say Jones changes too much... To quote Lambert "we go again" Let's see how they train with the intention of the same starting 11...which helped to win our first game of the season.
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Post by mamasgloves on Oct 7, 2019 7:02:11 GMT
McClean was injured.
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