|
Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 21, 2019 11:33:35 GMT
Capitalism is not a system though, it is the absense of, or minimal interference in, a free market. Any time anybody does anything and makes a profit from it, that is capitalism in action. This is why it is profoundly stupid to criticise capitalism. In its smallest form, it is merely a voluntary trade. It is trade and exchanging goods and services which has lifted people out of poverty. John at Screwfix may well be a genius but there is no "system" out there that would unlock that potential, so to scapegoat Capitalism for it is the bigger misconception. But the means of production are privately owned so how is say needing say clean water to survive a voluntary trade even though nothing has been used to create it as it's largely natural? Nestle don't make spring water, they bottle it... Also arguably we have always been in capitalism if someone is taking any form of profit from an exchange and it will remain for the foreseeable future. But what I am saying is if there was a great reset button and all was forgotten everything we have invented would be invented again because the same diseases would need to be cured for instance. What capitalism isn't doing now is actually taking us forward as we've already figured out how to basically harness the power of the planet and the need to profit from exchange is not actually driving us forward but holding us back for what is effectively a man made construct it doesn't need to. Most people know what the answer is to cure problems that exist but more often than not the reason we don't is because someone doesn't profit enough. But that doesn't hold up, what you're implying is that it's impossible to acquire clean water. It's all out there or you could collect and clean it yourself, but people want the convenience of being able to buy a bottle or having it piped into their houses, which someone else has to do, so they need to see something out of it. You're right, Nestlé don't own the water, but they've collected it, bottled it, ensured its safety, and shipped it to your local shop. They've done all the hard work so that the rest of us can have the convenience of not doing it ourselves. And I guarantee that if you pressed that reset button, capitalism would again naturally thrive as the strongest out of all economic systems tried. It's certainly not without it's faults but it is comfortably better than literally anything else that's ever been tried.
|
|
|
Post by bathstoke on Sept 21, 2019 11:33:55 GMT
Yeah, that’s right. Be grateful, cause capitalist gave you smartphones to take your gaze from what’s happening in the world... Is that an attempt to patronise me and imply that I'm somehow blinkered? To what? Shadowy, dracula figures huddled together, gleefully plotting the downfall of the common man, as they sip from diamond encrusted goblets and laugh as the world melts? No. It’s actually a quote from an entrepreneur on Breakfast the other week, Who implied that we should be grateful that capitalism had given us(the plebs)smartphones. It’s the modern day equivalent of bread & circuses to keep the masses attention whilst the power hungry get on with world domination.
|
|
|
Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 21, 2019 11:41:38 GMT
Is that an attempt to patronise me and imply that I'm somehow blinkered? To what? Shadowy, dracula figures huddled together, gleefully plotting the downfall of the common man, as they sip from diamond encrusted goblets and laugh as the world melts? No. It’s actually a quote from an entrepreneur on Breakfast the other week, Who implied that we should be grateful that capitalism had given us(the plebs)smartphones. It’s the modern day equivalent of bread & circuses to keep the masses attention whilst the power hungry get on with world domination. Smartphones are great, they let me read more, access fact-checking quickly, cheaply read a variety of different mainstream and alternative news outlets of varying political leanings, talk to strangers on internet forums that ensure I don't live in an echo chamber, and generally not have to live with BBC propaganda as my only source of news. The downsides are that I spend too much time on them and I'm being spied on by GCHQ and Big Data, but I choose to use one anyway on a voluntary basis. If anything, I think having a smartphone has opened my eyes more to what's happening in the world, so actually totally the opposite to what you said. I'm certainly no more or less politically active than I would have been without one; I'd still be lazy and wouldn't be arsed regardless. My activism only stretches as far as moaning about stuff.
|
|
|
Post by M on Sept 21, 2019 11:44:15 GMT
But the means of production are privately owned so how is say needing say clean water to survive a voluntary trade even though nothing has been used to create it as it's largely natural? Nestle don't make spring water, they bottle it... Also arguably we have always been in capitalism if someone is taking any form of profit from an exchange and it will remain for the foreseeable future. But what I am saying is if there was a great reset button and all was forgotten everything we have invented would be invented again because the same diseases would need to be cured for instance. What capitalism isn't doing now is actually taking us forward as we've already figured out how to basically harness the power of the planet and the need to profit from exchange is not actually driving us forward but holding us back for what is effectively a man made construct it doesn't need to. Most people know what the answer is to cure problems that exist but more often than not the reason we don't is because someone doesn't profit enough. But that doesn't hold up, what you're implying is that it's impossible to acquire clean water. It's all out there or you could collect and clean it yourself, but people want the convenience of being able to buy a bottle or having it piped into their houses, which someone else has to do, so they need to see something out of it. You're right, Nestlé don't own the water, but they've collected it, bottled it, ensured its safety, and shipped it to your local shop. They've done all the hard work so that the rest of us can have the convenience of not doing it ourselves. And I guarantee that if you pressed that reset button, capitalism would again naturally thrive as the strongest out of all economic systems tried. It's certainly not without it's faults but it is comfortably better than literally anything else that's ever been tried. What else has been tried thats worse? Nothing else has been. Maybe you are both right in the respect that everything that has been, would be again but maybe I'm right that unless there is change everything that is looking like being will be again. The great reset button would still lead through the industrialisation of the planet and lead us to the doorstep of the shit hitting the fan and we still can't afford to fix it but have the ability to. Logic says we have to change it. Logic says we can't carry on doing what we are doing because our trajectory isn't a positive one and that's based on the need to trade.
|
|
|
Post by bathstoke on Sept 21, 2019 11:48:15 GMT
No. It’s actually a quote from an entrepreneur on Breakfast the other week, Who implied that we should be grateful that capitalism had given us(the plebs)smartphones. It’s the modern day equivalent of bread & circuses to keep the masses attention whilst the power hungry get on with world domination. I'm certainly no more or less politically active than I would have been without one; I'd still be lazy and wouldn't be arsed regardless. My activism only stretches as far as moaning about stuff. Exactly & whilst you’re in your state of inertia, they are busying themselves about their busine$$
|
|
|
Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 21, 2019 11:56:44 GMT
I'm certainly no more or less politically active than I would have been without one; I'd still be lazy and wouldn't be arsed regardless. My activism only stretches as far as moaning about stuff. Exactly & whilst you’re in your state of inertia, they are busying themselves about their busine$$ Yeah but that's why your argument doesn't make sense, you're saying that smartphones (and I know that's just an example, I understand you mean all consumer tech) keep us docile and compliant, but I think most people would be anyway. I don't like the fact and I'm not advocating the zombieism of society, and ideally (to me, at least), we'd live in a minarchist society functioning entirely on voluntaryism and without the looming menace of any kind of big-state (either governmental or corporate), but we don't, and I can't see where this has actually been tried since the isolationist pre-WWI USA. The seemingly go-to alternative to capitalism is big-state controlled economies. You moan now about consumerism distracting us away from opposition, but I'd certainly pick that over the track record of 20th Century left-controlled countries trying that and their 200m death toll as a response to opposition.
|
|
|
Post by bathstoke on Sept 21, 2019 12:08:17 GMT
Exactly & whilst you’re in your state of inertia, they are busying themselves about their busine$$ Yeah but that's why your argument doesn't make sense, you're saying that smartphones (and I know that's just an example, I understand you mean all consumer tech) keep us docile and compliant, but I think most people would be anyway. I don't like the fact and I'm not advocating the zombieism of society, and ideally (to me, at least), we'd live in a minarchist society functioning entirely on voluntaryism and without the looming menace of any kind of big-state (either governmental or corporate), but we don't, and I can't see where this has actually been tried since the isolationist pre-WWI USA. The seemingly go-to alternative to capitalism is big-state controlled economies. You moan now about consumerism distracting us away from opposition, but I'd certainly pick that over the track record of 20th Century left-controlled countries trying that and their 200m death toll as a response to opposition. It’s not that you’re any more or less lazy than anyone else. You just haven’t found your thing yet...
|
|
|
Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 21, 2019 12:12:41 GMT
But that doesn't hold up, what you're implying is that it's impossible to acquire clean water. It's all out there or you could collect and clean it yourself, but people want the convenience of being able to buy a bottle or having it piped into their houses, which someone else has to do, so they need to see something out of it. You're right, Nestlé don't own the water, but they've collected it, bottled it, ensured its safety, and shipped it to your local shop. They've done all the hard work so that the rest of us can have the convenience of not doing it ourselves. And I guarantee that if you pressed that reset button, capitalism would again naturally thrive as the strongest out of all economic systems tried. It's certainly not without it's faults but it is comfortably better than literally anything else that's ever been tried. What else has been tried thats worse? Nothing else has been. Maybe you are both right in the respect that everything that has been, would be again but maybe I'm right that unless there is change everything that is looking like being will be again. The great reset button would still lead through the industrialisation of the planet and lead us to the doorstep of the shit hitting the fan and we still can't afford to fix it but have the ability to. Logic says we have to change it. Logic says we can't carry on doing what we are doing because our trajectory isn't a positive one and that's based on the need to trade. With the exception of maybe Cuba, Communism is an alternative that has almost inevitably been distastrous in the following areas: Personal liberty Free speech Economy The right to life The right to protest The right to free movement The lists go on and on. That's not hyperbole, Communism is the most deadly human invention in history with a record of 200m in the 20th Century. It always centralises power into the hands of the brutal and corrupt. Capitalism, for all the indirect deaths you could argue for (and you'd probably have a good case), has never (with the possible exception of Pinochet) led to mass-executions carried out by dictators in the name of the economy (you'll probably find dictators that led capitalist-resembling regimes, but I'm confident in saying that this is incidental, and they have never had to exert violence in order to maintain the economy). Socialism is another alternative with two schools of thought on why it exists: either as a watered down Communism that is a means and and an end in itself; or Marx's original theory that it should be a transition phase from Capitalism to full Communism. I've already addressed the latter but we can look at the former. It's not as brutal but it's hardly ever effective. Even if I ignore the absolute crisis of Venezuela as an extreme example, even when we've tried real Socialism here, it's been rubbish. Three day weeks, rolling blackouts, bloated unions striking at will, shortages on products, money-haemmorhaging beaurocracies and public services have essentially led to flat and stagnant societies. I won't go into why it's also paradoxical to conflate Socialism with "liberalism" because we'd be going off tangent, but it's always to the detriment of personal choice and freedom, too. They're the main, serious alternatives to Capitalism, but there's also the Blairist idea of the Third-Way hybrid of Capitalism with public investment and services which worked / works reasonably well, to be honest I think this is basically as good as we're going to get towards pleasing everyome for the time being. I'd argue it's more capitalist than socialist, but the left would criticise it as being too far right and vice versa. This is why I think it is really stupid to say Capitalism is evil. It creates wealth and we now have a state of perpetual tinkering to keep it in balance. It's not perfect, but it's the best we've tried so far.
|
|
|
Post by musik on Sept 21, 2019 12:26:21 GMT
Global hunger could be abolished overnight as we as a planet waste more food than global hunger is short of. The charity shelter estimates there are 320,000 homeless people and there is nearly double that many properties in this country empty so capitalism renders people homeless. The capitalist answer is people should work harder I'm with you completely on this. It's really awful. There is an excess supply of food in the world today, but it's a mismanagement without comparison. And if they all just stopped producing weapons of all kind for a year, or a decade ... think of all the good things that could be done for that money for mankind: research, medicine, infrastructure, water supply etc. Double that many properties empty in England? What!!??!! In Sweden we have at least 320.000 homeless people (I think it's even more here, even if we just have 10 million citizens), but there are no available empty properties anywhere now, not even an empty shithouse! "The capitalist answer is people should work harder". Well, there's a lot to be said about that. I wrote a thesis about the marginal effect of work once, and it basically said we've passed the optimum decades ago here in Sweden. I don't know about England, but here the utility of another working hour decreased on the margin and became even negative in certain sectors a long time ago. Leading to decreased real wages.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 12:31:23 GMT
Sad that they target one political party .......targeting capitalism is fair game as that’s the beast that needs taming Capitalism has lifted billions out of poverty. More than any other system. Well, it’s certainly better than communism, I’ll give you that. Capitalism (((corporatism))) communism, socialism.......all hijacked by greedy, evil fuckers
|
|
|
Post by rogerjonesisgod on Sept 21, 2019 13:49:42 GMT
So up pops Squealer to tell us that climate change is actually "murder" by the "economic elites".
|
|
|
Post by rogerjonesisgod on Sept 21, 2019 14:02:13 GMT
Threatening much?
|
|
|
Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 21, 2019 14:12:52 GMT
So up pops Squealer to tell us that climate change is actually "murder" by the "economic elites". I automatically say and do exactly the opposite of what Owen Jones says or does. Even if it's really stupid, unreasonable, morally dubious or completely wrong. I hate that bastard with a passion.
|
|
|
Post by Bojan Mackey on Sept 21, 2019 15:47:35 GMT
I’m fine with protesting about things, but these chodes blocking traffic really pisses me off.
These are people that just want to get home, they could be late for a meeting, they could have just had some bad news and need to rush somewhere, and you’ve got these cretins with their unkempt armpit hair and their body odour standing in the middle of the road, ironically causing more pollution by the cars idling in the queue they themselves have caused.
Keep it to the town centres you stupid dickheads.
|
|
|
Post by musik on Sept 21, 2019 16:10:33 GMT
these cretins with their unkempt armpit hair "significant"
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 16:40:17 GMT
So up pops Squealer to tell us that climate change is actually "murder" by the "economic elites". In fairness, Climate change has been caused by corporate greed and a the rich refusing to lose money to be sustainable. (70% of emissions are from 100 companies). Climate change will disproportionately affect those who are lower on the economic scale. Some of those will die. Allowing others to die because you refuse to lose out on profits is a crime against humanity. I don't like Jones, but he's right with what he says./
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 16:42:11 GMT
I’m fine with protesting about things, but these chodes blocking traffic really pisses me off. These are people that just want to get home, they could be late for a meeting, they could have just had some bad news and need to rush somewhere, and you’ve got these cretins with their unkempt armpit hair and their body odour standing in the middle of the road, ironically causing more pollution by the cars idling in the queue they themselves have caused. Keep it to the town centres you stupid dickheads. What's the point in a protest if it doesn't impact people in some way? Not to be patronising or arrogant, but you being late for a meeting is not as important as the reasons for the protests. The point of this is to force large scale change, not to get you to drive nicely in to work.
|
|
|
Post by Bojan Mackey on Sept 21, 2019 16:59:42 GMT
I’m fine with protesting about things, but these chodes blocking traffic really pisses me off. These are people that just want to get home, they could be late for a meeting, they could have just had some bad news and need to rush somewhere, and you’ve got these cretins with their unkempt armpit hair and their body odour standing in the middle of the road, ironically causing more pollution by the cars idling in the queue they themselves have caused. Keep it to the town centres you stupid dickheads. What's the point in a protest if it doesn't impact people in some way? Not to be patronising or arrogant, but you being late for a meeting is not as important as the reasons for the protests. The point of this is to force large scale change, not to get you to drive nicely in to work. Because it’s stopping people who just want to get on with their everyday lives, not everyone wants to be involved so why should these tits force their opinions on people who want no part in it? Also what if said meeting results in a job loss, meaning someone can no longer provide for their family, or you’ve had a call saying a relative is desperately ill and you can’t get to the hospital because these dicks are stood on the traffic lights stopping traffic? It’s a braindead way of going about things and will turn people against their cause, not make them sympathise with it.
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 21, 2019 17:20:45 GMT
So up pops Squealer to tell us that climate change is actually "murder" by the "economic elites". I automatically say and do exactly the opposite of what Owen Jones says or does. Even if it's really stupid, unreasonable, morally dubious or completely wrong. I hate that bastard with a passion. He's on fucking everything, isn't he? I bet he's fucking loaded with all his appearances on political programmes,now he's getting in on this. Permanent faux outrage, like most of the turds you see, lately. As someone said earlier, it's all anti Tory and anti capitalism. If Labour get in it suddenly won't be quite so urgent, I guarantee you.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 17:32:01 GMT
The GP from Brighton on the news yesterday, who tearfully said that she couldn't look her daughter, "Kitty", in the eye, because of the terrible world her generation, is creating for her daughter's generation.
Ffs.
|
|
|
Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 21, 2019 17:39:24 GMT
I automatically say and do exactly the opposite of what Owen Jones says or does. Even if it's really stupid, unreasonable, morally dubious or completely wrong. I hate that bastard with a passion. He's on fucking everything, isn't he? I bet he's fucking loaded with all his appearances on political programmes,now he's getting in on this. Permanent faux outrage, like most of the turds you see, lately. As someone said earlier, it's all anti Tory and anti capitalism. If Labour get in it suddenly won't be quite so urgent, I guarantee you. Just turned Celebrity Pointless on and he's on fucking that as well!
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 21, 2019 17:42:01 GMT
He's on fucking everything, isn't he? I bet he's fucking loaded with all his appearances on political programmes,now he's getting in on this. Permanent faux outrage, like most of the turds you see, lately. As someone said earlier, it's all anti Tory and anti capitalism. If Labour get in it suddenly won't be quite so urgent, I guarantee you. Just turned Celebrity Pointless on and he's on fucking that as well! Fucking hell fire. He's like those twins in The League Of Gentlemen! 😁
|
|
|
Post by rivival on Sept 21, 2019 17:47:55 GMT
A generation that moan about climate change but can't put their McDonalds paper in a bin. Spoilt brats living in a cocooned world. I agree in general about spoilt brats.....but they’re not wrong on climate id hate to be a youngster these days Why? do they have to breath in all the black dust that coated every building in Stoke-on-Trent? Do they work in Pits and Pot banks with ridiculous levels of dust? Do they have Dripping on toast for breakfast, dinner and tea......I don't think so. Spoiled rotten generation is what they are.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 17:57:50 GMT
What's the point in a protest if it doesn't impact people in some way? Not to be patronising or arrogant, but you being late for a meeting is not as important as the reasons for the protests. The point of this is to force large scale change, not to get you to drive nicely in to work. Because it’s stopping people who just want to get on with their everyday lives, not everyone wants to be involved so why should these tits force their opinions on people who want no part in it? Also what if said meeting results in a job loss, meaning someone can no longer provide for their family, or you’ve had a call saying a relative is desperately ill and you can’t get to the hospital because these dicks are stood on the traffic lights stopping traffic? It’s a braindead way of going about things and will turn people against their cause, not make them sympathise with it. Okay, so what should they do? Normal protesting hasn't worked. It has affected no change. Genuinely making things awkward and actually causing disruption has already caused governments and companies to put in place targets at least, but it's still not enough. If you sit quietly and whisper that something's wrong, no-one will listen.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 17:59:48 GMT
I agree in general about spoilt brats.....but they’re not wrong on climate id hate to be a youngster these days Why? do they have to breath in all the black dust that coated every building in Stoke-on-Trent? Do they work in Pits and Pot banks with ridiculous levels of dust? Do they have Dripping on toast for breakfast, dinner and tea......I don't think so. Spoiled rotten generation is what they are. Fucking hell, so just cause you had to deal with disgusting conditions and companies not giving a shit about workers and normal people means they should accept it too? What a vindictive way of seeing things.
|
|
|
Post by Bojan Mackey on Sept 21, 2019 18:10:12 GMT
Because it’s stopping people who just want to get on with their everyday lives, not everyone wants to be involved so why should these tits force their opinions on people who want no part in it? Also what if said meeting results in a job loss, meaning someone can no longer provide for their family, or you’ve had a call saying a relative is desperately ill and you can’t get to the hospital because these dicks are stood on the traffic lights stopping traffic? It’s a braindead way of going about things and will turn people against their cause, not make them sympathise with it. Okay, so what should they do? Normal protesting hasn't worked. It has affected no change. Genuinely making things awkward and actually causing disruption has already caused governments and companies to put in place targets at least, but it's still not enough. If you sit quietly and whisper that something's wrong, no-one will listen. Do mass protests in pedestrianised areas, continue with the online campaigns, raise awareness on social media, do not continue with stopping traffic, the more people who do not want to be involved in these protests who get caught up in this is more enemies against their cause and therefore likely to result in crackdowns on these sorts of flash mobs and charges bought against the people involved in them. The governments won’t do shite all no matter what measures they take, the only thing they’ll do is come down on them more fiercely for doing it. It’s the same in town centres with charity representatives, I’m fine with you raising awareness but if you get in my face and force your cause upon me I’m not going to be interested in it and I’m going to think you’re a twat to boot, this is that but on a much bigger scale. They need to re-think their strategy.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 21, 2019 18:28:48 GMT
Okay, so what should they do? Normal protesting hasn't worked. It has affected no change. Genuinely making things awkward and actually causing disruption has already caused governments and companies to put in place targets at least, but it's still not enough. If you sit quietly and whisper that something's wrong, no-one will listen. Do mass protests in pedestrianised areas, continue with the online campaigns, raise awareness on social media, do not continue with stopping traffic, the more people who do not want to be involved in these protests who get caught up in this is more enemies against their cause and therefore likely to result in crackdowns on these sorts of flash mobs and charges bought against the people involved in them. The governments won’t do shite all no matter what measures they take, the only thing they’ll do is come down on them more fiercely for doing it. It’s the same in town centres with charity representatives, I’m fine with you raising awareness but if you get in my face and force your cause upon me I’m not going to be interested in it and I’m going to think you’re a twat to boot, this is that but on a much bigger scale. They need to re-think their strategy. Perhaps not directly applicable and it depends upon who the target is.....if it is Capitalism and the multi nationals supposing rather than taking a day off.... young people got together in mass and decided not to buy designer clothes , perhaps only buy second hand clothes or REPAIR and not to buy " the latest" iphones/ phones for two years (or more) , simply to upgrade perfectly functional machines. That would possibly show real sacrifice and commitment... and they would possibly be in a position to persuade older people to do the equivalent.
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Sept 21, 2019 18:42:34 GMT
He's on fucking everything, isn't he? I bet he's fucking loaded with all his appearances on political programmes,now he's getting in on this. Permanent faux outrage, like most of the turds you see, lately. As someone said earlier, it's all anti Tory and anti capitalism. If Labour get in it suddenly won't be quite so urgent, I guarantee you. Just turned Celebrity Pointless on and he's on fucking that as well! Bloody hell, he's not got a friend has he?
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Sept 21, 2019 18:46:52 GMT
Do mass protests in pedestrianised areas, continue with the online campaigns, raise awareness on social media, do not continue with stopping traffic, the more people who do not want to be involved in these protests who get caught up in this is more enemies against their cause and therefore likely to result in crackdowns on these sorts of flash mobs and charges bought against the people involved in them. The governments won’t do shite all no matter what measures they take, the only thing they’ll do is come down on them more fiercely for doing it. It’s the same in town centres with charity representatives, I’m fine with you raising awareness but if you get in my face and force your cause upon me I’m not going to be interested in it and I’m going to think you’re a twat to boot, this is that but on a much bigger scale. They need to re-think their strategy. Perhaps not directly applicable and it depends upon who the target is.....if it is Capitalism and the multi nationals supposing rather than taking a day off.... young people got together in mass and decided not to buy designer clothes , perhaps only buy second hand clothes or REPAIR and not to buy " the latest" iphones/ phones for two years (or more) , simply to upgrade a perfectly functional machines. That would possibly show real sacrifice and commitment... and they would possibly be in a position to persuade older people to do the equivalent. Now that would take real sacrifice BJR and we both know that's not going to happen. How about them all sailing over to Disney in Florida while they're at it
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 21, 2019 19:30:52 GMT
Perhaps not directly applicable and it depends upon who the target is.....if it is Capitalism and the multi nationals supposing rather than taking a day off.... young people got together in mass and decided not to buy designer clothes , perhaps only buy second hand clothes or REPAIR and not to buy " the latest" iphones/ phones for two years (or more) , simply to upgrade a perfectly functional machines. That would possibly show real sacrifice and commitment... and they would possibly be in a position to persuade older people to do the equivalent. Now that would take real sacrifice BJR and we both know that's not going to happen. How about them all sailing over to Disney in Florida while they're at it And do we need to upgrade our cars on a regular basis...." Perpetuating capitalism"?.... even if the excuse is....they are now more environmentally friendly. Is the move to electric cars simply the next marketing technique to stimulate the market. In years to come will the movement to efficient batteries ( which i think is brilliant by the way.... just using a Ryobi extended chain saw) be criticised in terms of production of the batteries and disposal?
|
|