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Post by partickpotter on Sept 21, 2019 7:43:36 GMT
We were talking about this at work today, and at present rates global warming could lead to a significant rise in sea levels, which could wipe out huge areas of Wales and Scotland... So to do my bit I have decided to STOP recycling my waste to try to speed up the process, to give the people of Stoke on Trent their very own beach, imagine what it would do to house prices, Chell on Sea... Just sounds right. It would take out Norfolk and London first, carry on đ The ice age is coming, the sun is zooming in Meltdown expected, the wheat is growin' thin Engines stop running, but I have no fear 'Cause London is drowning, and I, I live by the river
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 21, 2019 7:47:42 GMT
I know that it is stating the obvious but there is also a big difference between trying to create a fair and equal society in which everyone/ the very poorest in less developed countries enjoys a good standard of life with all the advantageous that the West now enjoys , not just in terms of food and shelter but also " pleasure and entertainment" AND trying to protect the planet/ all species for their own sake. I guess that is the meaning of sustainability. In general I am an optimist by nature whilst recognising the threats. But. Species do become extinct , perhaps the human race is on an inevitable trajectory towards its own extinction which is perhaps the best hope for a thriving planet. A victim of our own success? We are not prepared or perhaps not able to pay the price of long or medium term sustainability. I don't think that it is arguable that we have had a bigger negative impact on the planet than any other species.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 9:13:59 GMT
I agree, but electric cars are mostly useless anyway, the resources used to build them will run out before fossil fuels do, and the carbon footprint of mining these is very high. What we need to do is stop burning fossil fuels by 2030. Nuclear, solar, wind, tidal, hydroelectric are all ready to step in, but no-one can be arsed to pay the costs. Either exponential growth based capitalism is dead or we are. You are wrong about solar and wind They're not good enough to be used on their own but you replace the base energy level of coal with nuclear, replace the quicker 'reactive' energies of oil and gas with things like Solar, wind and HE.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 21, 2019 9:30:23 GMT
We were talking about this at work today, and at present rates global warming could lead to a significant rise in sea levels, which could wipe out huge areas of Wales and Scotland... So to do my bit I have decided to STOP recycling my waste to try to speed up the process, to give the people of Stoke on Trent their very own beach, imagine what it would do to house prices, Chell on Sea... Just sounds right. It would take out Norfolk and London first, carry on đ Weâre all right in Norfolk are webbed fingers will keep us safe as for London couldnât happen to a better shit hole
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Sept 21, 2019 9:37:21 GMT
When the 'climate change' protesters are singing "fuck Boris" I think the cat's out of the bag. Leading a conservative Government that have promised zero carbon by 2050. The UK having biggest reduction in carbon use for years out of the G7 countries. The UK having decreased it's carbon footprint every year since the 1970's. Boris' own girlfriend is an uber campaigner for the environment and wildlife conservation.
The climate crisis fad is driven by anti-capitalists. Please read the facts....
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Post by mattyd on Sept 21, 2019 9:37:51 GMT
We were talking about this at work today, and at present rates global warming could lead to a significant rise in sea levels, which could wipe out huge areas of Wales and Scotland... So to do my bit I have decided to STOP recycling my waste to try to speed up the process, to give the people of Stoke on Trent their very own beach, imagine what it would do to house prices, Chell on Sea... Just sounds right. It would take out Norfolk and London first, carry on đ All the more reason to stop recycling.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 21, 2019 9:38:46 GMT
You are wrong about solar and wind They're not good enough to be used on their own but you replace the base energy level of coal with nuclear, replace the quicker 'reactive' energies of oil and gas with things like Solar, wind and HE. Everyone seems so concerned about the electricity To me the biggest problem is the heating of water and homes which is mostly done by burning gas You can make electricity as renewable as you like but it has to be cheap enough to make it economically viable to replace millions of gas boilers You can take the public so far but the cost has to be acceptable
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 9:43:02 GMT
When the 'climate change' protesters are singing "fuck Boris" I think the cat's out of the bag. Leading a conservative Government that have promised zero carbon by 2050. The UK having biggest reduction in carbon use for years out of the G7 countries. The UK having decreased it's carbon footprint every year since the 1970's. Boris' own girlfriend is an uber campaigner for the environment and wildlife conservation. The climate crisis fad is driven by anti-capitalists. Please read the facts.... Sad that they target one political party .......targeting capitalism is fair game as thatâs the beast that needs taming
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Post by M on Sept 21, 2019 10:00:56 GMT
I find it quite funny that the people in this thread saying we should be telling China, India and the USA that they should produce less are the same ones from another thread saying that we should do everything we can so that we can trade more with them, so they can actually produce more...
Anyway. We can all recycle as much as we want. We can use paper straws, carry loads of stuff out of the CooP without a bag or even dump our diesel motor but it matters very little until the global economy is changed so that it is not based on fossil fuels. The developing nations are effectively just carrying on what we started in the industrial revolution. I mean whats the point of electric cars if we're burning fossil fuels to create that electricity? (yeah I see the air pollution would be much better in larger cities).
It's entirely political and economical. We sign this Paris thingymagic and Cameron almost immediately slashed subsidies towards solar panels. The government has since removed incentives for homeowners to stick solars panels on their roofs which has seriously impacted growth of that. I mean where is the logic in telling someone to spunk a load of money on to solar because it's more expensive now and that any excess that they create now can't be sold back to the grid and that it has to be freely given up so that the grid can sell it to their neighbour who created it?
We basically need to reverse engineer everything. We need to change how we live and holiday. How we get about and what we eat. It's not something that is going to make people happy but the science says we need to do it and it's a shame that the kids are being more grown up about it that than the adults...
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Sept 21, 2019 10:04:13 GMT
When the 'climate change' protesters are singing "fuck Boris" I think the cat's out of the bag. Leading a conservative Government that have promised zero carbon by 2050. The UK having biggest reduction in carbon use for years out of the G7 countries. The UK having decreased it's carbon footprint every year since the 1970's. Boris' own girlfriend is an uber campaigner for the environment and wildlife conservation. The climate crisis fad is driven by anti-capitalists. Please read the facts.... Sad that they target one political party .......targeting capitalism is fair game as thatâs the beast that needs taming Capitalism has lifted billions out of poverty. More than any other system.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Sept 21, 2019 10:05:00 GMT
Ah so we have to get rid of companies making a profit before we can save the planet. Righto.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 10:11:54 GMT
They're not good enough to be used on their own but you replace the base energy level of coal with nuclear, replace the quicker 'reactive' energies of oil and gas with things like Solar, wind and HE. Everyone seems so concerned about the electricity To me the biggest problem is the heating of water and homes which is mostly done by burning gas You can make electricity as renewable as you like but it has to be cheap enough to make it economically viable to replace millions of gas boilers You can take the public so far but the cost has to be acceptable Well it's all produced by fossil fuels. You can heat homes renewably too, with ease. The cost has to come from business being forced to lose money in order to be sustainable. Hence why capitalism as it is currently stands no chance of fixing the issue. Governments will have to force business to lose money in order to fix this.
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Post by robstokie on Sept 21, 2019 10:12:58 GMT
Sad that they target one political party .......targeting capitalism is fair game as thatâs the beast that needs taming Capitalism has lifted billions out of poverty. More than any other system. The fact is this - I would wager that a large proportion of those attending today would identify as socialists. There is a genuine need to transfer to renewable alternatives, if for no other reason that there is only a finite number of natural resources that are being used up far quicker than it takes for them to be produced. Unfortunately, I think that today's protests are as much about anti-capitalism as they are about resources. Just wish someone would tell these quacks who are against capitalism how the alternative would pan out - think Venezuela, North Korea and any number of tin-pot dictatorships in African nations, and that's before you even factor in the failings of the Soviet Union.
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Post by M on Sept 21, 2019 10:13:24 GMT
Ah so we have to get rid of companies making a profit before we can save the planet. Righto. I don't think anyone sensibly wants to stop companies making money but yes, if a company is making money by effectively destroying the planet and/or people that needs to be stopped. Do you complain that we can't make asbestos anymore and that companies should still be able to profit from making it?
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Post by musik on Sept 21, 2019 10:15:53 GMT
The developing nations are effectively just carrying on what we started in the industrial revolution. It's entirely political and economical. We basically need to reverse engineer everything. We need to change how we live and holiday. How we get about and what we eat. It's not something that is going to make people happy but the science says we need to do it and it's a shame that the kids are being more grown up about it that than the adults... Correct. And less people starve to death nowadays compared to how it used to be, so the market for things of different kind to be produced is growing and expanding all the time. This needs to be stopped. Noone is more happy than me if not a single soul on this planet had to starve. And even if new production methods are a must, it won't happen everywhere, not so quick as demanded. So in reality, realistically, we have to bring fewer children to this world in the nearest future. It would give us a breathing space. Altered production technique won't come as quickly as it should unfortunately, the same goes with changing expectations and consumer behaviour. I don't know about God's plan here (maybe we should ask NJ), but perhaps he thought we would have explored Mars by now. Or had less sex ...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 10:16:54 GMT
When the 'climate change' protesters are singing "fuck Boris" I think the cat's out of the bag. Leading a conservative Government that have promised zero carbon by 2050. The UK having biggest reduction in carbon use for years out of the G7 countries. The UK having decreased it's carbon footprint every year since the 1970's. Boris' own girlfriend is an uber campaigner for the environment and wildlife conservation. The climate crisis fad is driven by anti-capitalists. Please read the facts.... Sad that they target one political party .......targeting capitalism is fair game as thatâs the beast that needs taming I knew I'd bring you round one day comrade
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Post by musik on Sept 21, 2019 10:18:14 GMT
Ah so we have to get rid of companies making a profit before we can save the planet. Righto. Profits are a must, for many reasons. Otherwise for instance, why would they and how could they invest in another technology?
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Post by M on Sept 21, 2019 10:26:25 GMT
The developing nations are effectively just carrying on what we started in the industrial revolution. It's entirely political and economical. We basically need to reverse engineer everything. We need to change how we live and holiday. How we get about and what we eat. It's not something that is going to make people happy but the science says we need to do it and it's a shame that the kids are being more grown up about it that than the adults... Correct. And less people starve to death nowadays compared to how it used to be, so the market for things of different kind to be produced is growing and expanding all the time. This needs to be stopped. Noone is more happy than me if not a single soul on this planet had to starve. And even if new production methods are a must, it won't happen everywhere, not so quick as demanded. So in reality, realistically, we have to bring fewer children to this world in the nearest future. It would give us a breathing space. Altered production technique won't come as quickly as it should unfortunately, the same goes with changing expectations and consumer behaviour. I don't know about God's plan here (maybe we should ask NJ), but perhaps he thought we would have explored Mars by now. Or had less sex ... I've heard a few people saying recently that capitalism is ace and it brings more out of poverty etc. I just don't get it. The most important thing is life and one prerequisite for life is food. Global hunger could be abolished overnight as we as a planet waste more food than global hunger is short of. Capitalism actually stops us eliminating global hunger. - The capitalist answer is people should have less children (even though having less children is actually the death of capitalism as that is opposite constant growth) The charity shelter estimates there are 320,000 homeless people and there is nearly double that many properties in this country empty so capitalism renders people homeless. - The capitalist answer is people should work harder and try and get ahead even though not everyone can, the system is not designed for everyone to get ahead. It equally needs people that are doing amazing and other struggling their arses out for balance Now we're hearing scientists saying we need to fix the earth as it's dying and the capitalists say we can't afford as we don't have enough money even though money doesn't exist, paper, silver and gold does... There's a lot more to just saying your can scrap capitalism overnight. You can't. But 'ace' capitalism is not.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 21, 2019 10:28:12 GMT
This Greta Thunberg does my fucking head in for a number of reasons. Let's work through them methodically. 1. She embodies the left's unhealthy obsession with youth. It's a real Peter Pan weirdo fantasy that exalts childhood as some sort of virtue that the rest of us should be entranced by. It's almost as if they think we should remember what it is to be an innocent child, do a little cry, and fall, weeping into each other's arms. It's creepy as fuck. 2. This moron has forsaken her education. So now I should be listening to some truanting piece of gallavanting filth who's off on a jolly, totally ignoring the fact that I have worked and paid my arse off to get educated to postgrad level? But what, she has fucking pigtails and doesn't go to school we should all suddenly drop our clearly superior intellects to listen to little Wednesday? 3. The girl is clearly autistic. This is no slight on anyone living with autism, but obsessive fantasies are a common feature of the condition. It doesn't mean we indulge in any little autistic kid's obsession with red legos, or eating each piece of food on a plate separately! 4. The poor girl is clearly a victim of parental neglect. They are encouraging and enabling her truancy, as well as manipulating her for their own selfish political motives, and they should be arrested and imprisoned and Greta herself taken into care. It's brainwashing. 5. Poor Greta doesn't have a fucking clue what she's on about, as demonstrated by the recent farce over having her boat flown home. Not only does she not know what she's on about, she's actually quite stupid. (Probably because she's missed so much school) Yeah, sheâs so stupid she speaks English better than some of our kids. Howâs your Swedish coming along... Skit Are you saying the only way in which you can be clever is to be a polyglot? That's almost the single weirdest thing you've ever posted.
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Post by bathstoke on Sept 21, 2019 10:28:12 GMT
Sad that they target one political party .......targeting capitalism is fair game as thatâs the beast that needs taming Capitalism has lifted billions out of poverty. More than any other system. Oh well if thatâs that then ÂŁ@#& it. Capitalism is the panacea for the whole world. Hurrah for those entrepreneurs & their benevolent ways. God blessâem all is saved. ThanX for pointing that out Rog.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Sept 21, 2019 10:34:43 GMT
Capitalism has lifted billions out of poverty. More than any other system. Oh well if thatâs that then ÂŁ@#& it. Capitalism is the panacea for the whole world. Hurrah for those entrepreneurs & their benevolent ways. God blessâem all is saved. ThanX for pointing that out Rog. Sorry if you don't like facts.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 21, 2019 10:35:47 GMT
Capitalism has lifted billions out of poverty. More than any other system. Oh well if thatâs that then ÂŁ@#& it. Capitalism is the panacea for the whole world. Hurrah for those entrepreneurs & their benevolent ways. God blessâem all is saved. ThanX for pointing that out Rog. Capitalism has done more to lift people out of poverty and increase living standards across the world than anything. You might argue that it exploits people along the way but at least the exploited (not the punk band) are not dying in pools of their own shit in mud huts of preventable diseases by age 30. Medicine, technology, communications are all results of capitalist enterprise that have eliminated the natural, uninterfered with state of man- chaos, poverty and misery.
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Post by starkiller on Sept 21, 2019 10:47:05 GMT
When the 'climate change' protesters are singing "fuck Boris" I think the cat's out of the bag. Leading a conservative Government that have promised zero carbon by 2050. The UK having biggest reduction in carbon use for years out of the G7 countries. The UK having decreased it's carbon footprint every year since the 1970's. Boris' own girlfriend is an uber campaigner for the environment and wildlife conservation. The climate crisis fad is driven by anti-capitalists. Please read the facts.... A Labour government with exactly the same policy on the environment and holding the exactly same referendum on the EU would not have the protests. Both are driven by political partisans.
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Post by M on Sept 21, 2019 10:48:34 GMT
Oh well if thatâs that then ÂŁ@#& it. Capitalism is the panacea for the whole world. Hurrah for those entrepreneurs & their benevolent ways. God blessâem all is saved. ThanX for pointing that out Rog. Capitalism has done more to lift people out of poverty and increase living standards across the world than anything. You might argue that it exploits people along the way but at least the exploited (not the punk band) are not dying in pools of their own shit in mud huts of preventable diseases by age 30. Medicine, technology, communications are all results of capitalist enterprise that have eliminated the natural, uninterfered with state of man- chaos, poverty and misery. They are not creations of capitalism. That's a misconception. We're a problem solving species and we create them. If anything arguably capitalism holds so many back and the cure for cancer could already be in the mind of John who works at Screwfix on constant nights who is desperate to experiment but is too tired from grafting and can't afford to take the time off to experiment. PS. There's plenty dying of preventable diseases like victorian ones making a comeback because of financial cuts.
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Post by elystokie on Sept 21, 2019 10:52:30 GMT
The developing nations are effectively just carrying on what we started in the industrial revolution. It's entirely political and economical. We basically need to reverse engineer everything. We need to change how we live and holiday. How we get about and what we eat. It's not something that is going to make people happy but the science says we need to do it and it's a shame that the kids are being more grown up about it that than the adults... Correct. And less people starve to death nowadays compared to how it used to be, so the market for things of different kind to be produced is growing and expanding all the time. This needs to be stopped. Noone is more happy than me if not a single soul on this planet had to starve. And even if new production methods are a must, it won't happen everywhere, not so quick as demanded. So in reality, realistically, we have to bring fewer children to this world in the nearest future. It would give us a breathing space. Altered production technique won't come as quickly as it should unfortunately, the same goes with changing expectations and consumer behaviour. I don't know about God's plan here (maybe we should ask NJ), but perhaps he thought we would have explored Mars by now. Or had less sex ... We'll be orate in a couple of years musik, I reckon virtual sex will be all the rage, headset, body suit type thing (hopefully low voltage), Loads of advantages, no contraception needed, disease free, no worrying about putting in your best performance, no moods or rows, low upkeep, be as energetic (healthy option) or relaxed as you like, always available... They'll be begging people to have kids
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 21, 2019 11:09:02 GMT
Capitalism has done more to lift people out of poverty and increase living standards across the world than anything. You might argue that it exploits people along the way but at least the exploited (not the punk band) are not dying in pools of their own shit in mud huts of preventable diseases by age 30. Medicine, technology, communications are all results of capitalist enterprise that have eliminated the natural, uninterfered with state of man- chaos, poverty and misery. They are not creations of capitalism. That's a misconception. We're a problem solving species and we create them. If anything arguably capitalism holds so many back and the cure for cancer could already be in the mind of John who works at Screwfix on constant nights who is desperate to experiment but is too tired from grafting and can't afford to take the time off to experiment. PS. There's plenty dying of preventable diseases like victorian ones making a comeback because of financial cuts. Capitalism is not a system though, it is the absense of, or minimal interference in, a free market. Any time anybody does anything and makes a profit from it, that is capitalism in action. This is why it is profoundly stupid to criticise capitalism. In its smallest form, it is merely a voluntary trade. It is trade and exchanging goods and services which has lifted people out of poverty. John at Screwfix may well be a genius but there is no "system" out there that would unlock that potential, so to scapegoat Capitalism for it is the bigger misconception.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 21, 2019 11:19:03 GMT
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Post by bathstoke on Sept 21, 2019 11:21:31 GMT
Oh well if thatâs that then ÂŁ@#& it. Capitalism is the panacea for the whole world. Hurrah for those entrepreneurs & their benevolent ways. God blessâem all is saved. ThanX for pointing that out Rog. Capitalism has done more to lift people out of poverty and increase living standards across the world than anything. You might argue that it exploits people along the way but at least the exploited (not the punk band) are not dying in pools of their own shit in mud huts of preventable diseases by age 30. Medicine, technology, communications are all results of capitalist enterprise that have eliminated the natural, uninterfered with state of man- chaos, poverty and misery. Yeah, thatâs right. Be grateful, cause capitalist gave you smartphones to take your gaze from whatâs happening in the world...
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 21, 2019 11:25:42 GMT
Capitalism has done more to lift people out of poverty and increase living standards across the world than anything. You might argue that it exploits people along the way but at least the exploited (not the punk band) are not dying in pools of their own shit in mud huts of preventable diseases by age 30. Medicine, technology, communications are all results of capitalist enterprise that have eliminated the natural, uninterfered with state of man- chaos, poverty and misery. Yeah, thatâs right. Be grateful, cause capitalist gave you smartphones to take your gaze from whatâs happening in the world... Is that an attempt to patronise me and imply that I'm somehow blinkered? To what? Shadowy, dracula figures huddled together, gleefully plotting the downfall of the common man, as they sip from diamond encrusted goblets and laugh as the world melts?
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Post by M on Sept 21, 2019 11:25:43 GMT
They are not creations of capitalism. That's a misconception. We're a problem solving species and we create them. If anything arguably capitalism holds so many back and the cure for cancer could already be in the mind of John who works at Screwfix on constant nights who is desperate to experiment but is too tired from grafting and can't afford to take the time off to experiment. PS. There's plenty dying of preventable diseases like victorian ones making a comeback because of financial cuts. Capitalism is not a system though, it is the absense of, or minimal interference in, a free market. Any time anybody does anything and makes a profit from it, that is capitalism in action. This is why it is profoundly stupid to criticise capitalism. In its smallest form, it is merely a voluntary trade. It is trade and exchanging goods and services which has lifted people out of poverty. John at Screwfix may well be a genius but there is no "system" out there that would unlock that potential, so to scapegoat Capitalism for it is the bigger misconception. But the means of production are privately owned so how is say needing say clean water to survive a voluntary trade even though nothing has been used to create it as it's largely natural? Nestle don't make spring water, they bottle it... Also arguably we have always been in capitalism if someone is taking any form of profit from an exchange and it will remain for the foreseeable future. But what I am saying is if there was a great reset button and all was forgotten everything we have invented would be invented again because the same diseases would need to be cured for instance. What capitalism isn't doing now is actually taking us forward as we've already figured out how to basically harness the power of the planet and the need to profit from exchange is not actually driving us forward but holding us back for what is effectively a man made construct it doesn't need to. Most people know what the answer is to cure problems that exist but more often than not the reason we don't is because someone doesn't profit enough. So if the scientists are right and we are heading down the shitter capitalism will be at fault because we couldn't afford to stop it...
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