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Post by nott1 on Sept 11, 2019 10:50:14 GMT
I have no doubt he'll be good enough for us when he comes back, he's already a star at Fleetwood!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2019 14:12:53 GMT
So you wouldn’t have had Ryan in the mix, pre-injury? The issue isn’t so much Lindsay, who is bang average, as that it’s better for Souttar to play every week and keep developing than being stuck as 4th choice, which was the situation facing him at the time even if we hadn’t signed LL. Erm, no? So...you're now discussing and disagreeing with yourself?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 11, 2019 14:43:04 GMT
Two others on the list are at Ipswich....I wonder if we would have been better if we had stuck with Lambert? Or to put it another way.... would we have been any worse?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 11, 2019 14:57:08 GMT
Lindsay shone in the same division Souttar is now. You could argue if you wanted to that his performances for Barnsley are evidence at this stage in their respective development. Souttar will benefit from another season of regular football. There is no that much evidence that Lindsay shone, if you refer to Barnsley forums from last season, they rated their other defenders more highly and were surprised when we came in for him. Can’t remember where the other CB went, but he was the one they all wanted to keep. I mean, there is evidence that Lindsay shone. He was a regular in a promotion winning team and lots of their fans did rate him.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 11, 2019 14:57:47 GMT
So...you're now discussing and disagreeing with yourself? Sorry, I was replying to your bizarre assertion that being a 6ft7 footballer automatically meant you were athletic, which it absolutely doesn't.
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Post by rawli on Sept 11, 2019 17:13:11 GMT
Lindsay shone in the same division Souttar is now. You could argue if you wanted to that his performances for Barnsley are evidence at this stage in their respective development. Souttar will benefit from another season of regular football. There is no that much evidence that Lindsay shone, if you refer to Barnsley forums from last season, they rated their other defenders more highly and were surprised when we came in for him. Can’t remember where the other CB went, but he was the one they all wanted to keep. The Barnsley supporters I know all rate him. He's not had a good start but i do t thunk he should be written off just yet. The other one went to Brentford.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 7:01:37 GMT
So...you're now discussing and disagreeing with yourself? Sorry, I was replying to your bizarre assertion that being a 6ft7 footballer automatically meant you were athletic, which it absolutely doesn't. I didn't say he was a model of elegance, just athletic.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 12, 2019 7:35:47 GMT
I’d have had Batth and Collins. If Batth couldn’t play then I’d have happily has Souttar playing yeah. Lindsay is no better than Souttar, an absolute waste of a transfer. So you wouldn’t have had Ryan in the mix, pre-injury? The issue isn’t so much Lindsay, who is bang average, as that it’s better for Souttar to play every week and keep developing than being stuck as 4th choice, which was the situation facing him at the time even if we hadn’t signed LL. Of course I would, i presumed you meant post injury. Indeed I was the one banging the drum for Collins and Shawcross to be our starting partnership. With Batth and Souttar behind them. I think he’d have played plenty.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 12, 2019 11:12:15 GMT
So you wouldn’t have had Ryan in the mix, pre-injury? The issue isn’t so much Lindsay, who is bang average, as that it’s better for Souttar to play every week and keep developing than being stuck as 4th choice, which was the situation facing him at the time even if we hadn’t signed LL. Of course I would, i presumed you meant post injury. Indeed I was the one banging the drum for Collins and Shawcross to be our starting partnership. With Batth and Souttar behind them. I think he’d have played plenty. Souttar went on loan a week before Ryan got injured. He'd have been fourth choice, who do you think he'd have played at the expense of? Batth was always going to be preferred.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 12, 2019 11:32:38 GMT
Of course I would, i presumed you meant post injury. Indeed I was the one banging the drum for Collins and Shawcross to be our starting partnership. With Batth and Souttar behind them. I think he’d have played plenty. Souttar went on loan a week before Ryan got injured. He'd have been fourth choice, who do you think he'd have played at the expense of? Batth was always going to be preferred. And? You didn’t make it clear. My thoughts on this have been the same from day one of preseason. He’d have been choice...... And he would have played plenty.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Sept 12, 2019 11:39:35 GMT
Or just let Souttar continue to build his confidence and improve at a crucial stage in his development by playing where he is week in, week out? Or give Souttar a chance to improve a team that badly needs improving? Of course this scenario is unlikely to happen under current management, as that would force Nathan Jones to admit be made the wrong decision in a) loaning out a real talent b) signing a player who is not better than the player he loaned out. While he's at it.....he can also admit he ballsed up sending Verlinden out on loan as well, instead of giving him a crack here!!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 13:03:18 GMT
Or give Souttar a chance to improve a team that badly needs improving? Of course this scenario is unlikely to happen under current management, as that would force Nathan Jones to admit be made the wrong decision in a) loaning out a real talent b) signing a player who is not better than the player he loaned out. While he's at it.....he can also admit he ballsed up sending Verlinden out on loan as well, instead of giving him a crack here!!! As I was saying...Jones is not the kind of man who admits he's wrong about anything. Probably because he thinks he is right about everything. But football managers need to have that sort of belief about them.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 12, 2019 15:58:27 GMT
Souttar went on loan a week before Ryan got injured. He'd have been fourth choice, who do you think he'd have played at the expense of? Batth was always going to be preferred. And? You didn’t make it clear. My thoughts on this have been the same from day one of preseason. He’d have been choice...... And he would have played plenty. Based on what?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 12, 2019 16:04:53 GMT
And? You didn’t make it clear. My thoughts on this have been the same from day one of preseason. He’d have been choice...... And he would have played plenty. Based on what? Based on the manager has tried everyone and if had tried a back 3 like he has then he would have played.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 12, 2019 16:09:11 GMT
Based on the manager has tried everyone and if had tried a back 3 like he has then he would have played. He wouldn't have got anything like the game time he's got there and I'm not sure being exposed to the bin fire that is our defence would've done him any good.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 12, 2019 16:11:33 GMT
Based on the manager has tried everyone and if had tried a back 3 like he has then he would have played. He wouldn't have got anything like the game time he's got there and I'm not sure being exposed to the bin fire that is our defence would've done him any good. He got the game time at that level last season. He needed to be an option for us this.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 12, 2019 18:04:06 GMT
Or give Souttar a chance to improve a team that badly needs improving? Of course this scenario is unlikely to happen under current management, as that would force Nathan Jones to admit be made the wrong decision in a) loaning out a real talent b) signing a player who is not better than the player he loaned out. While he's at it.....he can also admit he ballsed up sending Verlinden out on loan as well, instead of giving him a crack here!!! A crack of playing out of position, he's better off where he is.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Sept 12, 2019 19:42:21 GMT
While he's at it.....he can also admit he ballsed up sending Verlinden out on loan as well, instead of giving him a crack here!!! A crack of playing out of position, he's better off where he is. Sorry Boz, I can't agree with you on this!!! I don't see Bolton as a step up to learn his trade!!! If we were struggling in the Premier league, I could understand us sending him out to a championship club, but we're not, we're struggling in the championship, and we need something different to what we've been playing with so far!!! I'm not saying he's the answer, but to send him out without even trying him in this team is fuckin beyond ridiculous!!! Some agree with it, me.....I'm not so sure!!!
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 13, 2019 8:33:37 GMT
A crack of playing out of position, he's better off where he is. Sorry Boz, I can't agree with you on this!!! I don't see Bolton as a step up to learn his trade!!! If we were struggling in the Premier league, I could understand us sending him out to a championship club, but we're not, we're struggling in the championship, and we need something different to what we've been playing with so far!!! I'm not saying he's the answer, but to send him out without even trying him in this team is fuckin beyond ridiculous!!! Some agree with it, me.....I'm not so sure!!! Its a step up because of regular games, its a lot better than getting 10 mins here or there mostly when the team are chasing and most likely out of position, its pretty clear Jones isn't interested in playing with wingers unless he's desperate so I just don't see the point in keeping him here at the moment.
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 13, 2019 9:15:03 GMT
Am I not right in saying Souttar signed a new contract just before going out on loan? Obviously he is highly thought of but we couldn't risk playing him and Collins and as the older of the 2 it is more important for his development to be playing regularly and learning how to handle a game than sitting on the bench most weeks. Same for Verlindern. They are too old to not be playing regularly.
And by the way being 6'7"and thin does not make you athletic. I have a 6' friend who looks fairly fit but can't run to save his life and certainly can't kick a football at the same time. Muscle makes you athletic - I doubt if many people would call Peter Crouch athletic.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 10:08:33 GMT
Am I not right in saying Souttar signed a new contract just before going out on loan? Obviously he is highly thought of but we couldn't risk playing him and Collins and as the older of the 2 it is more important for his development to be playing regularly and learning how to handle a game than sitting on the bench most weeks. Same for Verlindern. They are too old to not be playing regularly. And by the way being 6'7"and thin does not make you athletic. I have a 6' friend who looks fairly fit but can't run to save his life and certainly can't kick a football at the same time. Muscle makes you athletic - I doubt if many people would call Peter Crouch athletic. I'm 6ft6. Now I'm 62 so no point in asking me if I'm athletic, I'm not. But back in the day I was, in the words of my coach, remarkably quick and athletic for someone my height and size.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Sept 13, 2019 13:55:20 GMT
Sorry Boz, I can't agree with you on this!!! I don't see Bolton as a step up to learn his trade!!! If we were struggling in the Premier league, I could understand us sending him out to a championship club, but we're not, we're struggling in the championship, and we need something different to what we've been playing with so far!!! I'm not saying he's the answer, but to send him out without even trying him in this team is fuckin beyond ridiculous!!! Some agree with it, me.....I'm not so sure!!! Its a step up because of regular games, its a lot better than getting 10 mins here or there mostly when the team are chasing and most likely out of position, its pretty clear Jones isn't interested in playing with wingers unless he's desperate so I just don't see the point in keeping him here at the moment. No, I totally agree with that side of it, he does need games!!! I just don't think Bolton are a step up for him.....I also think Jones was mad not to give him a crack here this season, especially with the tripe we've had on show so far!!!
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