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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 3, 2019 21:54:34 GMT
"We" are not ignoring anything. I barely care enough to debate this one. We never signed a player quite like Bellamy, but allegedly we tried. I just happen think he'd have played up front because I think he was something of a unqiue player, far above the usual quality, in possession of certain skills we didn't see in any of those previous examples, who might well have got past the usual TP striker height barriers because of this, that's all. You don't, because he wasn't very tall. Fine. Only one man knows. And he's probably forgotten. I also think Bellamy would've played up front. But I don't know that for definite. Based on what though?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2019 21:57:25 GMT
Ex Football player in timely spat with good mate to get people interested in his book just as book comes out.
Shock. Horror.
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Post by ParaPsych on Sept 3, 2019 22:01:29 GMT
"We" are not ignoring anything. I barely care enough to debate this one. We never signed a player quite like Bellamy, but allegedly we tried. I just happen think he'd have played up front because I think he was something of a unqiue player, far above the usual quality, in possession of certain skills we didn't see in any of those previous examples, who might well have got past the usual TP striker height barriers because of this, that's all. You don't, because he wasn't very tall. Fine. Only one man knows. And he's probably forgotten. Hardly anyone got past the ‘usual TP strike height barriers’. Patrik Berger was an incredibly gifted player. Tuncay could be on his day. Michael Owen was one of the greatest strikers of his generation. When Pulis deigned to play them at all, he played them on the wing. Whatever made more sense to do or you or I would’ve done, there’s no evidence to suggest Bellamy would’ve been any different, had he signed for us, which he absolutely wouldn’t have done under any circumstances at that point in his career. Evidence? We're not in court here are we? Shit. There is no way to "prove" this one really is there. Call it a hunch. Bellamy was a player who made things happen. He had exceptional work rate. He lead from the front. He had fight. A battler. Obviously he had ability too but that wouldn't have been too far up TPs list of priorities. Berger and Owen were very different players to him and not at their peaks anyway, well particularly Owen. Tuncay might be a fairer comparison to Bellamy, but he merely pretended to work hard and was also shit. We're talking peak Bellamy. In the Championship. I can't think of any genuinely relevant comparisons. I think he might well have had a smidgeon of a chance of playing up front in that league and perhaps even in the league above. As I said, he's unique compared to most of the strikers TP signed over the years. Unique to the cohort of big tall beasts and unique to cohort of past it skillfull players. But had we signed him? Well apart from 1 particular thing going against him, which admittedly a biggy, I think he may well have ticked a few of TPs other boxes. Just perhaps, in this utterly hypothetical scenario, those other abilities could have gotten him over that one seemingly utterly incomprehensibly monumental hurdle. Now go to bed, this really ain't worth it.
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Post by ParaPsych on Sept 3, 2019 22:03:31 GMT
"We" are not ignoring anything. I barely care enough to debate this one. We never signed a player quite like Bellamy, but allegedly we tried. I just happen think he'd have played up front because I think he was something of a unqiue player, far above the usual quality, in possession of certain skills we didn't see in any of those previous examples, who might well have got past the usual TP striker height barriers because of this, that's all. You don't, because he wasn't very tall. Fine. Only one man knows. And he's probably forgotten. I also think Bellamy would've played up front. But I don't know that for definite. I hope you're not planning on an early night?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 3, 2019 22:09:39 GMT
Hardly anyone got past the ‘usual TP strike height barriers’. Patrik Berger was an incredibly gifted player. Tuncay could be on his day. Michael Owen was one of the greatest strikers of his generation. When Pulis deigned to play them at all, he played them on the wing. Whatever made more sense to do or you or I would’ve done, there’s no evidence to suggest Bellamy would’ve been any different, had he signed for us, which he absolutely wouldn’t have done under any circumstances at that point in his career. Evidence? We're not in court here are we? Shit. There is no way to "prove" this one really is there. Call it a hunch. Bellamy was a player who made things happen. He had exceptional work rate. He lead from the front. He had fight. A battler. Obviously he had ability too but that wouldn't have been too far up TPs list of priorities. Berger and Owen were very different players to him and not at their peaks anyway, well particularly Owen. Tuncay might be a fairer comparison to Bellamy, but he merely pretended to work hard and was also shit. We're talking peak Bellamy. In the Championship. I can't think of any genuinely relevant comparisons. I think he might well have had a smidgeon of a chance of playing up front in that league and perhaps even in the league above. As I said, he's unique compared to most of the strikers TP signed over the years. Unique to the cohort of big tall beasts and unique to cohort of past it skillfull players. But had we signed him? Well apart from 1 particular thing going against him, which admittedly a biggy, I think he may well have ticked a few of TPs other boxes. Just perhaps, in this utterly hypothetical scenario, those other abilities could have gotten him over that one seemingly utterly incomprehensibly monumental hurdle. Now go to bed, this really ain't worth it. Yeah. It wouldn’t. Just like it didn’t for any of the others. Michael Owen was indeed a different player to Bellamy but he was still always going to be a million times less effective out wide than he was up top. It didn’t matter. The system was king. I really don’t have anything further to add. I just think it’s bizarre to completely ignore a man’s MO for an entire decade and think he’d have changed it for one player despite never changing it for anyone else. He wouldn’t have changed it for Messi, let alone Craig Fucking Bellamy.
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Post by ParaPsych on Sept 3, 2019 22:11:15 GMT
Evidence? We're not in court here are we? Shit. There is no way to "prove" this one really is there. Call it a hunch. Bellamy was a player who made things happen. He had exceptional work rate. He lead from the front. He had fight. A battler. Obviously he had ability too but that wouldn't have been too far up TPs list of priorities. Berger and Owen were very different players to him and not at their peaks anyway, well particularly Owen. Tuncay might be a fairer comparison to Bellamy, but he merely pretended to work hard and was also shit. We're talking peak Bellamy. In the Championship. I can't think of any genuinely relevant comparisons. I think he might well have had a smidgeon of a chance of playing up front in that league and perhaps even in the league above. As I said, he's unique compared to most of the strikers TP signed over the years. Unique to the cohort of big tall beasts and unique to cohort of past it skillfull players. But had we signed him? Well apart from 1 particular thing going against him, which admittedly a biggy, I think he may well have ticked a few of TPs other boxes. Just perhaps, in this utterly hypothetical scenario, those other abilities could have gotten him over that one seemingly utterly incomprehensibly monumental hurdle. Now go to bed, this really ain't worth it. Yeah. It wouldn’t. Just like it didn’t for any of the others. Michael Owen was indeed a different player to Bellamy but he was still always going to be a million times less effective out wide than he was up top. It didn’t matter. The system was king. I really don’t have anything further to add. I just think it’s bizarre to completely ignore a man’s MO for an entire decade and think he’d have changed it for one player despite never changing it for anyone else. He wouldn’t have changed it for Messi, let alone Craig Fucking Bellamy. The ego is king. He never really signed a pacy left winger until that one time he did. He was capable of the odd aberration if he felt it suited him, within the framework. I think even he might have done something different for Messi. Fuck knows what though.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Sept 3, 2019 22:24:38 GMT
I also think Bellamy would've played up front. But I don't know that for definite. Based on what though? Well me not knowing for definite is based upon it never actually happening. And unfortunately "we" will all never know for definite what Pulis would've done with Bellamy. We can all guess and probably believe we're 99.9% certain but we can't be 100% right. And there endeth my comments on Bellamys role. On to another point now: I always remember staying up late to watch Whittle clobber Shearer on the highlights show. The commentators were going mad.
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Post by NassauDave on Sept 4, 2019 3:33:34 GMT
Owen was a very good player when he was young.
This book ( based on the extracts), is a piss poor attempt at breaking his boring persona by being what he believes to be controversial.
Bell end.
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Post by nott1 on Sept 4, 2019 15:24:35 GMT
Whatever anyone thinks about TP and his methods he would have done a lot better than the current incumbent that's for sure!
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Post by leicspotter on Sept 4, 2019 18:36:29 GMT
Why the hell was he signed then? At the time it seemed like it was to boost the clubs profile. He never really played off the big man like many expected he might. Other than being injured maybe he was just poor in training. I can barely remember his time here now, i know he had an hernia op once, not sure if it was when he was here. He probably carried a sick note around with him. I said at the time that seeing Owen with "Bet 365" across his chest, with his horse racing connections, was just the sort of publicity that the company would relish, at a fraction of the cost of TV advertising. I'm sure they would feel his wages were money well spent, play or not. It's comparable with the 'coup' at Huddersfield and Paddy Power...but far less obvious
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Post by Gifton on Sept 4, 2019 21:25:05 GMT
Almost as embarrassing as the Durham/Sutton argument on TalkShite.
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Post by nott1 on Sept 5, 2019 14:22:12 GMT
Hoddle was sacked for saying the the following in an interview "My beliefs have evolved in the last eight or nine years, that the spirit has to come back again, that is nothing new, that has been around for thousands of years. You have to come back to learn and face some of the things you have done, good and bad. There are too many injustices around. You and I have been physically given two hands and two legs and half-decent brains. Some people have not been born like that for a reason. The karma is working from another lifetime. I have nothing to hide about that. It is not only people with disabilities. What you sow, you have to reap. Youu have to look at things that happened in your life and ask why. It comes around. I can still believe Shearer is a massive self obsessed twat mind. There are about a billion people in the Indian sub-continent who would think that is fairly standard stuff. Its entirely consistent with Hinduism and other belief systems too. What puzzles me is why they believe all this stuff, it's all been invented by man anyway!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2019 14:33:17 GMT
At the time it seemed like it was to boost the clubs profile. He never really played off the big man like many expected he might. Other than being injured maybe he was just poor in training. I can barely remember his time here now, i know he had an hernia op once, not sure if it was when he was here. He probably carried a sick note around with him. I said at the time that seeing Owen with "Bet 365" across his chest, with his horse racing connections, was just the sort of publicity that the company would relish, at a fraction of the cost of TV advertising. I'm sure they would feel his wages were money well spent, play or not. It's comparable with the 'coup' at Huddersfield and Paddy Power...but far less obvious How is that boosting the company's image if he never plays? All that happens is that the player gets forgotten, rather than his star power elevating the club in any way. Crouch genuinely did lift the club's profile. The Stokealona thing threatened to briefly. Delap's throw raised the profile way more than Michael Owen ever did.
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Post by steewee on Sept 5, 2019 20:39:17 GMT
Man the book is a bit cringe, in parts it reads like a parody
From throwing an apple in a bin like basketball, in defiance of his mum who was worried about a mark on the wall, and his dad who thought it was funny (think this is an attempt to show how rebellious he was as he says this is an example of how cheeky he could be) to telling Stubbs in a Merseyside derby - you won't be saying that again after he scored.
It's downright cringe and I'm only a third through! He really is boring 😂
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Post by ChiefWiggum on Sept 5, 2019 23:49:24 GMT
Man the book is a bit cringe, in parts it reads like a parody From throwing an apple in a bin like basketball, in defiance of his mum who was worried about a mark on the wall, and his dad who thought it was funny (think this is an attempt to show how rebellious he was as he says this is an example of how cheeky he could be) to telling Stubbs in a Merseyside derby - you won't be saying that again after he scored. It's downright cringe and I'm only a third through! He really is boring 😂 Nothing will ever be more cringe than his brochure
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Post by skip on Sept 6, 2019 0:08:59 GMT
My favourite description of Alan Shearer is from the late and spectacularly insightful philosopher and cultural writer Mark Fisher aka k-Punk who described him as having the look of a retired squaddie who has beaten a man to death with his shoe.
Also, the idea of Stoke signing someone like Owen, towards the end of their career or not, feels like a lifetime ago.
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Sept 6, 2019 6:19:41 GMT
Owen was a very good player when he was young. This book ( based on the extracts), is a piss poor attempt at breaking his boring persona by being what he believes to be controversial. Bell end. I wish the book reviews in the TLS were this brutally concise....😉
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Post by mrred on Sept 6, 2019 7:27:00 GMT
At the time it seemed like it was to boost the clubs profile. He never really played off the big man like many expected he might. Other than being injured maybe he was just poor in training. I can barely remember his time here now, i know he had an hernia op once, not sure if it was when he was here. He probably carried a sick note around with him. I said at the time that seeing Owen with "Bet 365" across his chest, with his horse racing connections, was just the sort of publicity that the company would relish, at a fraction of the cost of TV advertising. I'm sure they would feel his wages were money well spent, play or not. It's comparable with the 'coup' at Huddersfield and Paddy Power...but far less obvious Thinking about it, now you put it in that context with Bet365, makes more sense why Pulis never played him if he felt undermined with the signing (assuming it was the hierarchy that signed him).
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 6, 2019 7:40:01 GMT
I said at the time that seeing Owen with "Bet 365" across his chest, with his horse racing connections, was just the sort of publicity that the company would relish, at a fraction of the cost of TV advertising. I'm sure they would feel his wages were money well spent, play or not. It's comparable with the 'coup' at Huddersfield and Paddy Power...but far less obvious Thinking about it, now you put it in that context with Bet365, makes more sense why Pulis never played him if he felt undermined with the signing (assuming it was the hierarchy that signed him). It would have been Pulis.
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Post by chigstoke on Sept 6, 2019 8:05:26 GMT
Just searching for snippets of the new Owen book, I came across this here. He sent every team in the premier league a 32 page dossier about himself to get a move, this page is my favourite though from his dossier in an attempt to sell the Michael Owen brand
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Post by NassauDave on Sept 6, 2019 9:28:16 GMT
Just searching for snippets of the new Owen book, I came across this here. He sent every team in the premier league a 32 page dossier about himself to get a move, this page is my favourite though from his dossier in an attempt to sell the Michael Owen brand For: Charismatic read boring Articulate read erm, erm I didn’t see any mention of him being Snow Whites 8th employee either.... Sincere read WTF?
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Post by PotteringThrough on Sept 6, 2019 12:29:12 GMT
Just searching for snippets of the new Owen book, I came across this here. He sent every team in the premier league a 32 page dossier about himself to get a move, this page is my favourite though from his dossier in an attempt to sell the Michael Owen brand For: Charismatic read boring Articulate read erm, erm I didn’t see any mention of him being Snow Whites 8th employee either.... Sincere read WTF? Hey man, didn't you know Owen is cool?
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Post by DC1863 on Sept 6, 2019 13:11:52 GMT
Just searching for snippets of the new Owen book, I came across this here. He sent every team in the premier league a 32 page dossier about himself to get a move, this page is my favourite though from his dossier in an attempt to sell the Michael Owen brand :D Humble?
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Post by chigstoke on Sept 6, 2019 13:22:06 GMT
Just searching for snippets of the new Owen book, I came across this here. He sent every team in the premier league a 32 page dossier about himself to get a move, this page is my favourite though from his dossier in an attempt to sell the Michael Owen brand Humble? Anything but! Also he describes himself as 'cool'. What exactly is cool about Michael Owen?
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Sept 6, 2019 14:04:20 GMT
Gotta love Joey Barton's "caps"
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Post by Absolution on Sept 6, 2019 14:46:52 GMT
Well me not knowing for definite is based upon it never actually happening. And unfortunately "we" will all never know for definite what Pulis would've done with Bellamy. We can all guess and probably believe we're 99.9% certain but we can't be 100% right. And there endeth my comments on Bellamys role. On to another point now: I always remember staying up late to watch Whittle clobber Shearer on the highlights show. The commentators were going mad. They were ripping into Whittle for the audacity of elbowing the saintly Shearer. Almost in passing they mentioned that Shearer had actually elbowed Whittle earlier in the match. Andy Townsend passed this off with a cheery "Alan's been raising his arms like that all his career." So that's alright then. Shearer was fuming in the after match interview. He just couldn't handle someone daring to give him a taste of his own medicine.
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Post by chigstoke on Sept 6, 2019 15:06:37 GMT
Gotta love Joey Barton's "caps"
The website that let's you make your own brochure page still exists suprisingly, might be worth a go with some players
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 6, 2019 15:56:08 GMT
And there was also Michael Owen, who spent his final season as a professional under Pulis at Stoke. He made just eight substitute appearances after signing on a free transfer from Manchester United in 2012. “Michael joined us and I never, ever felt his head was on it at any stage while he was at Stoke City,” he says. “He had a boot deal that lasted an extra year in the Premier League when he signed for Stoke which meant we hardly paid him a penny. Looking back, he never had his mind in the right place. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/290292/john-percy-exclusive-interview-tp#ixzz5ylDlK1Yu
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Post by NassauDave on Sept 6, 2019 16:23:03 GMT
For: Charismatic read boring Articulate read erm, erm I didn’t see any mention of him being Snow Whites 8th employee either.... Sincere read WTF? Hey man, didn't you know Owen is cool? No mention of only one eye either....
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Post by Goonie on Sept 6, 2019 16:26:32 GMT
Yeah. It wouldn’t. Just like it didn’t for any of the others. Michael Owen was indeed a different player to Bellamy but he was still always going to be a million times less effective out wide than he was up top. It didn’t matter. The system was king. I really don’t have anything further to add. I just think it’s bizarre to completely ignore a man’s MO for an entire decade and think he’d have changed it for one player despite never changing it for anyone else. He wouldn’t have changed it for Messi, let alone Craig Fucking Bellamy. The ego is king. He never really signed a pacy left winger until that one time he did. He was capable of the odd aberration if he felt it suited him, within the framework. I think even he might have done something different for Messi. Fuck knows what though. DM or LWB 😎😁
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