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Post by yeokel on Dec 4, 2019 9:40:41 GMT
Since when have the Jewish Community been "right wing" ?? I was on about the media machine.He has apologised for the jewish issue many times already. The snag is that the "Jewish issue" will not go away. It's true he's apologised for the party's previous misdemeanours and it is tiresome that interviewers & the media keep demanding he apologise for those once again, but new ones keep coming up. I know he says they now have 'procedures in place' but those only seem to trap recurrences of the issue once they have reoccurred. What they don’t seem to be able to do is trap them when they approve candidates, whether they be for a general election, local council election or even to sit on the local flower arranging committee. These people keep getting through, blabbing in their inappropriate ways and thus creating the demand for yet another apology. If they were ‘insulting’ or showing prejudice against other races, religions or peoples they seem to get silenced or filtered out, but it doesn’t seem to happen with the anti-Jews/anti-Semites with Labour
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Post by xchpotter on Dec 4, 2019 9:45:22 GMT
What is really laughable is your contempt for traditional Labour voters. I am a traditional Labour voter, from a traditional voting Labour family with a long proud history of campaigning for Labour. My old dear still bears the scars of losing a finger to a dog leafleting for them too. I just feel sorry for those tricked to feel that the modern day Labour Party don't offer a manifesto for them so no contempt here. I think that is a little dismissive of those Labour voters. Are you suggesting they might be thick for being so easily “tricked” maybe on a par to those who saw the Brexit bus? I think that attitude towards a large number in society is maybe where it starts to unravel for Labour. Perhaps if these “tricked” people were listened to by the party then maybe their support could be guaranteed
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 4, 2019 9:48:24 GMT
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Post by serpico on Dec 4, 2019 9:58:14 GMT
Labour hasn’t managed to bridge the gap between their middle class and working class voters and bring them together, it’s not only brexit but things like corbyns foreign policy, the working class can get behind criticizing the Iraq war but it’s when Corbyn goes too far and gets involved with Muslim faith groups that puts them off.
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Post by Eggybread on Dec 4, 2019 10:16:24 GMT
I was on about the media machine.He has apologised for the jewish issue many times already. The snag is that the "Jewish issue" will not go away. It's true he's apologised for the party's previous misdemeanours and it is tiresome that interviewers & the media keep demanding he apologise for those once again, but new ones keep coming up. I know he says they now have 'procedures in place' but those only seem to trap recurrences of the issue once they have reoccurred. What they don’t seem to be able to do is trap them when they approve candidates, whether they be for a general election, local council election or even to sit on the local flower arranging committee. These people keep getting through, blabbing in their inappropriate ways and thus creating the demand for yet another apology. If they were ‘insulting’ or showing prejudice against other races, religions or peoples they seem to get silenced or filtered out, but it doesn’t seem to happen with the anti-Jews/anti-Semites with Labour Im not sure it will ever go away tbh.The Labour party at the moment is quite left wing.The influential and powerful Zionists in the Jewish community are right wing.So instantly there is a conflict.Regarding what is anti semitic and what is not is a long standing argument and also still not entirely understood or is challenged.
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Post by M on Dec 4, 2019 10:36:54 GMT
I am a traditional Labour voter, from a traditional voting Labour family with a long proud history of campaigning for Labour. My old dear still bears the scars of losing a finger to a dog leafleting for them too. I just feel sorry for those tricked to feel that the modern day Labour Party don't offer a manifesto for them so no contempt here. I think that is a little dismissive of those Labour voters. Are you suggesting they might be thick for being so easily “tricked” maybe on a par to those who saw the Brexit bus? I think that attitude towards a large number in society is maybe where it starts to unravel for Labour. Perhaps if these “tricked” people were listened to by the party then maybe their support could be guaranteed I haven't mentioned intelligence so no, I'm not suggesting that in the slightest. For what it's worth the two most intelligent people I know are literally at the opposite end of the political spectrum to each other. You don't have to be unintelligent to be tricked. Propaganda knows no bounds on IQ levels... "If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it"...
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Post by M on Dec 4, 2019 10:45:36 GMT
Every successive government since Thatcher (including Blair) alongside the mainstream media and the setup of our economy. The establishment isn't a round table job with a handleful of suits... We've (the working class) cried out for change for generations and now there is a chance to grab it. I don't care about Corbyn, literally don't care. That manifesto though has the chance to change the game. If it's voted down it is exactly like Turkeys voting for Christmas. Maybe if Labour concentrated on a few key policies rather than promising money to everyone it would help? And Emily Thornberry not saying "who knows?" when asked if we would retaliate in the event of something using nuclear weapons against us. And a feeble stance on Brexit, that absolutely takes the piss out of Leave voters? These things are overshadowing some good ideas in their manifesto. Maybe, but the country and the working class need huge change. If we need to inflate the civil service to see it through, so be it. Trident is always a divisive thing between the left and right which is why it only rears its head at elections. Personally I disagree with Labours position fundamentally and I was disappointed to see Corbyn give the MPs a free vote on it. I'd rather us spend 200billion on our public services than a political weapon as that is the only thing it's used for. I personally wouldn't sleep any differently knowing it wasn't there, just like the hundreds of other countries (including our allies) who don't have any. Seeing people say they'd press the button means nothing to me as personally I don't believe any of them believe in mutual assured destruction (unless they're bordering on psychotic). That's just my position mind. But who's had a strong position on it? Leavers can't agree what leave looks like so why would you expect remainers to too? For what it's worth, like it or not at least their position offers some form of closure. Without a Tory majority, if Boris stays in #10 I would think you would be naive to expect closure anytime quicker...
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Post by maxplonk on Dec 4, 2019 11:03:48 GMT
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Post by M on Dec 4, 2019 11:05:58 GMT
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Dec 4, 2019 11:07:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 11:08:34 GMT
I'm confused. Does this mean the Coates are or aren't going to leave the UK and threaten jobs if Corbynomics came to fruition? Loads in this very same thread said they were? Both Coates and Snell are experts in spending huge amounts of money and delivering a pile of useless shit. There's a good chance of Snell looking for a new job next week. We're stuck with Coates.
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Post by Eggybread on Dec 4, 2019 11:10:31 GMT
I'm confused. Does this mean the Coates are or aren't going to leave the UK and threaten jobs if Corbynomics came to fruition? Loads in this very same thread said they were? Both Coates and Snell are experts in spending huge amounts of money and delivering a pile of useless shit. There's a good chance of Snell looking for a new job next week. We're stuck with Coates. "Snell are experts in spending huge amounts of money and delivering a pile of useless shit." Any examples of this?
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Post by yeokel on Dec 4, 2019 11:14:04 GMT
Maybe if Labour concentrated on a few key policies rather than promising money to everyone it would help? And Emily Thornberry not saying "who knows?" when asked if we would retaliate in the event of something using nuclear weapons against us. And a feeble stance on Brexit, that absolutely takes the piss out of Leave voters? These things are overshadowing some good ideas in their manifesto. Maybe, but the country and the working class need huge change. If we need to inflate the civil service to see it through, so be it. Trident is always a divisive thing between the left and right which is why it only rears its head at elections. Personally I disagree with Labours position fundamentally and I was disappointed to see Corbyn give the MPs a free vote on it. I'd rather us spend 200billion on our public services than a political weapon as that is the only thing it's used for. I personally wouldn't sleep any differently knowing it wasn't there, just like the hundreds of other countries (including our allies) who don't have any. Seeing people say they'd press the button means nothing to me as personally I don't believe any of them believe in mutual assured destruction (unless they're bordering on psychotic). That's just my position mind. But who's had a strong position on it? Leavers can't agree what leave looks like so why would you expect remainers to too? For what it's worth, like it or not at least their position offers some form of closure. Without a Tory majority, if Boris stays in #10 I would think you would be naive to expect closure anytime quicker... Your 1st point. "country and the working class need huge change" Totally agree. But it can't all be done at once, and it can't all be afforded at once or even over the course of one single government. They need to choose a few things that can be afforded and achieved, and then filter other things in over, say, ten years as and when they are achievable. Your secpnd point. "Trident is always a divisive thing between the left and right......" Not just left and right, but left and left, and right and right. I'm with you on this one though. Scrap it - there can never be justification for murdering millions of innocent people and, unless we elect some kind of psychopath, there will never be a British PM who would do that. Use the money much more wisely. Your third point. "Leavers can't agree what leave looks like" Wrong. We know what it looks like - it means leaving the big four EU 'pillars' and negotiating agreements related to trade, intelligence sharing, etc just like we do (or, will) with other countries. What you mean is 'Remain can't agree what leave looks like and intends to do all it/they can to kill it'.
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Post by serpico on Dec 4, 2019 11:28:22 GMT
Their tactics are undermining their message, everyone now thinks they're a joke and just massively irritating and disruptive, they're basically blocking the democratic process here. they're basically communists using the global climate change stuff as a cover to attack industry and capitalism, they don't actually give two shits about the earth, probably all from upper middle class areas with big houses, multiple cars and holiday several times a year.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 11:30:06 GMT
Every successive government since Thatcher (including Blair) alongside the mainstream media and the setup of our economy. The establishment isn't a round table job with a handleful of suits... We've (the working class) cried out for change for generations and now there is a chance to grab it. I don't care about Corbyn, literally don't care. That manifesto though has the chance to change the game. If it's voted down it is exactly like Turkeys voting for Christmas. The traditional Labour voter used to work in nationalised industries and relied on the unions and Labour governments to keep them sweet. Labour, generally, couldn't give a flying fuck about anyone else as people who worked in the pottery industry and other private sector companies will confirm. Modern Labour voters still largely work in our nationalised public sector and are still likely play the union card for pay rises and 26 days annual sick leave. The south east Labour support is made up of middle class wankers who can only use the right hand side of their arty farty musical brains and haven't a single ounce of common sense. These people can afford to vote for Labour and tell their friends how absolutely fucking lovely they are by doing so. Up north there's still a sizeable contingent of Labour's core vote that still believes that a life on benefits is the better option and that unless a government delivers a great job on their doorstep they're going to stay put in their pyjamas. And then we have the students. Historically always on the side of Labour but, as we know, they change their tune when they actually own something. This time though, it's different. Only a Labour government (1997-2010) could have massively increased the number of people taking degrees, introduce student fees and then, many years on, decide to saddle the taxpayer with a bill for billions thanks to a pledge to make degrees free. Finally, the wankers who proudly boast that if they earned more money and were in the top tax bands they'd be happy to pay more tax. Over the years I've known many Labour voters who happily informed us all that they'd give more away if only they had something to give away. Come the day when they receive a sizeable inheritance and life is easy their pledges of generosity magically disappear in a fog of forgetfulness. Labour's voters, like Labour itself, are the most generous people you'll ever meet as long as other people's money is being used.
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Post by Eggybread on Dec 4, 2019 11:32:32 GMT
Every successive government since Thatcher (including Blair) alongside the mainstream media and the setup of our economy. The establishment isn't a round table job with a handleful of suits... We've (the working class) cried out for change for generations and now there is a chance to grab it. I don't care about Corbyn, literally don't care. That manifesto though has the chance to change the game. If it's voted down it is exactly like Turkeys voting for Christmas. The traditional Labour voter used to work in nationalised industries and relied on the unions and Labour governments to keep them sweet. Labour, generally, couldn't give a flying fuck about anyone else as people who worked in the pottery industry and other private sector companies will confirm. Modern Labour voters still largely work in our nationalised public sector and are still likely play the union card for pay rises and 26 days annual sick leave. The south east Labour support is made up of middle class wankers who can only use the right hand side of their arty farty musical brains and haven't a single ounce of common sense. These people can afford to vote for Labour and tell their friends how absolutely fucking lovely they are by doing so. Up north Labour's core vote still believes that a life on benefits is the better option and that unless a government delivers a great job on their doorstep they're going to stay put in their pyjamas. And then we have the students. Historically always on the side of Labour but, as we know, they change their tune when they actually own something. This time though, it's different. Only a Labour government (1997-2010) could have massively increased the number of people taking degrees, introduce student fees and then, many years on, decide to saddle the taxpayer with a bill for billions thanks to a pledge to make degrees free. Finally, the wankers who proudly boast that if they earned more money and were in the top tax bands they'd be happy to pay more tax. Over the years I've known many Labour voters who happily informed us all that they'd give more away if only they had something to give away. Come the day when they receive a sizeable inheritance and life is easy their pledges of generosity magically disappear in a fog of forgetfulness. Labour's voters, like Labour itself, are the most generous people you'll ever meet as long as other people's money is being used. "Up north Labour's core vote still believes that a life on benefits is the better option and that unless a government delivers a great job on their doorstep they're going to stay put in their pyjamas. " How insulting to the northern working classes is that.
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 4, 2019 11:35:23 GMT
Their tactics are undermining their message, everyone now thinks they're a joke and just massively irritating and disruptive, they're basically blocking the democratic process here. they're basically communists using the global climate change stuff as a cover to attack industry and capitalism, they don't actually give two shits about the earth, probably all from upper middle class areas with big houses, multiple cars and holiday several times a year. In fairness, someone dressed as a bee glued to a bus is pretty funny. Mind you, it would be even funnier if the bus drove off.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 11:37:57 GMT
The traditional Labour voter used to work in nationalised industries and relied on the unions and Labour governments to keep them sweet. Labour, generally, couldn't give a flying fuck about anyone else as people who worked in the pottery industry and other private sector companies will confirm. Modern Labour voters still largely work in our nationalised public sector and are still likely play the union card for pay rises and 26 days annual sick leave. The south east Labour support is made up of middle class wankers who can only use the right hand side of their arty farty musical brains and haven't a single ounce of common sense. These people can afford to vote for Labour and tell their friends how absolutely fucking lovely they are by doing so. Up north Labour's core vote still believes that a life on benefits is the better option and that unless a government delivers a great job on their doorstep they're going to stay put in their pyjamas. And then we have the students. Historically always on the side of Labour but, as we know, they change their tune when they actually own something. This time though, it's different. Only a Labour government (1997-2010) could have massively increased the number of people taking degrees, introduce student fees and then, many years on, decide to saddle the taxpayer with a bill for billions thanks to a pledge to make degrees free. Finally, the wankers who proudly boast that if they earned more money and were in the top tax bands they'd be happy to pay more tax. Over the years I've known many Labour voters who happily informed us all that they'd give more away if only they had something to give away. Come the day when they receive a sizeable inheritance and life is easy their pledges of generosity magically disappear in a fog of forgetfulness. Labour's voters, like Labour itself, are the most generous people you'll ever meet as long as other people's money is being used. "Up north Labour's core vote still believes that a life on benefits is the better option and that unless a government delivers a great job on their doorstep they're going to stay put in their pyjamas. " How insulting to the northern working classes is that. Minor edit so you don't get upset.
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 4, 2019 11:40:03 GMT
The traditional Labour voter used to work in nationalised industries and relied on the unions and Labour governments to keep them sweet. Labour, generally, couldn't give a flying fuck about anyone else as people who worked in the pottery industry and other private sector companies will confirm. Modern Labour voters still largely work in our nationalised public sector and are still likely play the union card for pay rises and 26 days annual sick leave. The south east Labour support is made up of middle class wankers who can only use the right hand side of their arty farty musical brains and haven't a single ounce of common sense. These people can afford to vote for Labour and tell their friends how absolutely fucking lovely they are by doing so. Up north Labour's core vote still believes that a life on benefits is the better option and that unless a government delivers a great job on their doorstep they're going to stay put in their pyjamas. And then we have the students. Historically always on the side of Labour but, as we know, they change their tune when they actually own something. This time though, it's different. Only a Labour government (1997-2010) could have massively increased the number of people taking degrees, introduce student fees and then, many years on, decide to saddle the taxpayer with a bill for billions thanks to a pledge to make degrees free. Finally, the wankers who proudly boast that if they earned more money and were in the top tax bands they'd be happy to pay more tax. Over the years I've known many Labour voters who happily informed us all that they'd give more away if only they had something to give away. Come the day when they receive a sizeable inheritance and life is easy their pledges of generosity magically disappear in a fog of forgetfulness. Labour's voters, like Labour itself, are the most generous people you'll ever meet as long as other people's money is being used. "Up north Labour's core vote still believes that a life on benefits is the better option and that unless a government delivers a great job on their doorstep they're going to stay put in their pyjamas. " How insulting to the northern working classes is that. Damn Right. Working class men in the North don't wear pyjamas.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 11:40:52 GMT
"Up north Labour's core vote still believes that a life on benefits is the better option and that unless a government delivers a great job on their doorstep they're going to stay put in their pyjamas. " How insulting to the northern working classes is that. Damn Right. Working class men in the North don't wear pyjamas. And don't vote for Labour.
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Post by auntiegeorge on Dec 4, 2019 11:54:07 GMT
I think you make some astutely observed comments there, squareball. Boldly and unapologetically put as well. That takes some guts on this forum. Well done. I agree with everything you say.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 4, 2019 12:05:49 GMT
Every successive government since Thatcher (including Blair) alongside the mainstream media and the setup of our economy. The establishment isn't a round table job with a handleful of suits... We've (the working class) cried out for change for generations and now there is a chance to grab it. I don't care about Corbyn, literally don't care. That manifesto though has the chance to change the game. If it's voted down it is exactly like Turkeys voting for Christmas. The traditional Labour voter used to work in nationalised industries and relied on the unions and Labour governments to keep them sweet. Labour, generally, couldn't give a flying fuck about anyone else as people who worked in the pottery industry and other private sector companies will confirm. Modern Labour voters still largely work in our nationalised public sector and are still likely play the union card for pay rises and 26 days annual sick leave. The south east Labour support is made up of middle class wankers who can only use the right hand side of their arty farty musical brains and haven't a single ounce of common sense. These people can afford to vote for Labour and tell their friends how absolutely fucking lovely they are by doing so. Up north there's still a sizeable contingent of Labour's core vote that still believes that a life on benefits is the better option and that unless a government delivers a great job on their doorstep they're going to stay put in their pyjamas. And then we have the students. Historically always on the side of Labour but, as we know, they change their tune when they actually own something. This time though, it's different. Only a Labour government (1997-2010) could have massively increased the number of people taking degrees, introduce student fees and then, many years on, decide to saddle the taxpayer with a bill for billions thanks to a pledge to make degrees free. Finally, the wankers who proudly boast that if they earned more money and were in the top tax bands they'd be happy to pay more tax. Over the years I've known many Labour voters who happily informed us all that they'd give more away if only they had something to give away. Come the day when they receive a sizeable inheritance and life is easy their pledges of generosity magically disappear in a fog of forgetfulness. Labour's voters, like Labour itself, are the most generous people you'll ever meet as long as other people's money is being used. Which is why the traditional labour voters went brexit and why the children of these voters are looking past what their parents traditionally did and how their birthright is expected them to vote Something Owen Jones, Corbyn etc fail to grasp The night of a thousand knives “metaphorically” is coming
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 4, 2019 12:37:26 GMT
Every successive government since Thatcher (including Blair) alongside the mainstream media and the setup of our economy. The establishment isn't a round table job with a handleful of suits... We've (the working class) cried out for change for generations and now there is a chance to grab it. I don't care about Corbyn, literally don't care. That manifesto though has the chance to change the game. If it's voted down it is exactly like Turkeys voting for Christmas. The traditional Labour voter used to work in nationalised industries and relied on the unions and Labour governments to keep them sweet. Labour, generally, couldn't give a flying fuck about anyone else as people who worked in the pottery industry and other private sector companies will confirm. Modern Labour voters still largely work in our nationalised public sector and are still likely play the union card for pay rises and 26 days annual sick leave. The south east Labour support is made up of middle class wankers who can only use the right hand side of their arty farty musical brains and haven't a single ounce of common sense. These people can afford to vote for Labour and tell their friends how absolutely fucking lovely they are by doing so. Up north there's still a sizeable contingent of Labour's core vote that still believes that a life on benefits is the better option and that unless a government delivers a great job on their doorstep they're going to stay put in their pyjamas. And then we have the students. Historically always on the side of Labour but, as we know, they change their tune when they actually own something. This time though, it's different. Only a Labour government (1997-2010) could have massively increased the number of people taking degrees, introduce student fees and then, many years on, decide to saddle the taxpayer with a bill for billions thanks to a pledge to make degrees free. Finally, the wankers who proudly boast that if they earned more money and were in the top tax bands they'd be happy to pay more tax. Over the years I've known many Labour voters who happily informed us all that they'd give more away if only they had something to give away. Come the day when they receive a sizeable inheritance and life is easy their pledges of generosity magically disappear in a fog of forgetfulness. Labour's voters, like Labour itself, are the most generous people you'll ever meet as long as other people's money is being used. Your words are undermining your message, everyone now thinks that you’re a joke and just massively irritating and disruptive, you’re basically perverting the democratic process here. You’re basically a smug, selfish middle man using the global climate of populist politics as a cover to attack liberty & the arts, you don't actually give two shits about the traditional Labour voter, probably because you’re from a working class area & fancy you’re something special now, with multiple cars and been on a cruiseXx
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 4, 2019 12:51:53 GMT
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Post by Eggybread on Dec 4, 2019 12:56:32 GMT
If we get another 4/5 years of a tory government, in what ways are the non Labour voters on here hoping to see the country/city improve.Health,education,crime,welfare,wages,NHS,roads,immigration,tax reform,environment or something else?
What are you hoping for?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 4, 2019 12:58:12 GMT
Vote for Boris everyone...or he'll have you beaten up...
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 4, 2019 13:08:40 GMT
If we get another 4/5 years of a tory government, in what ways are the non Labour voters on here hoping to see the country/city improve.Health,education,crime,welfare,wages,NHS,roads,immigration,tax reform,environment or something else? What are you hoping for? No darkies, no EU migrants neither, no benefits, no EU, no deficit, no debt, massively reduced public spending, lower taxes, free parking, lower fuel charges, lower council tax, lower corporation tax, lower VAT, lower NI, return of the death penalty, fantastic NHS, fantastic schools, fantastic public transport, fuck the environment - climate change is bollocks. Am I right, right-wingers? Go on, be brave, admit it, it sounds great the above doesn't it? Ticks all your boxes, right? Bet you just can't understand why we don't have all that already? Clue - it's all Labour's fault, remember! It'd be a lot simpler with Labour. No money.
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Post by Eggybread on Dec 4, 2019 13:12:55 GMT
No darkies, no EU migrants neither, no benefits, no EU, no deficit, no debt, massively reduced public spending, lower taxes, free parking, lower fuel charges, lower council tax, lower corporation tax, lower VAT, lower NI, return of the death penalty, fantastic NHS, fantastic schools, fantastic public transport, fuck the environment - climate change is bollocks. Am I right, right-wingers? Go on, be brave, admit it, it sounds great the above doesn't it? Ticks all your boxes, right? Bet you just can't understand why we don't have all that already? Clue - it's all Labour's fault, remember! It'd be a lot simpler with Labour. No money. So you expect to have no money?Isnt that what we havent got now. I think you misunderstood the question.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 4, 2019 13:17:12 GMT
Just the Labour Party instructing people to be unlawful.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 4, 2019 13:19:05 GMT
Just a Labour Party candidate saying killing Jews isn't anti-semitic.
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