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Post by serpico on Dec 2, 2019 11:48:31 GMT
The problem lefties have with this is they can’t exploit this incident for their own gain, so they grandstand and pretend to be all outraged instead, but when something like grenfel happens they’re all over the place blaming the evil Tories. there are things that that can be said n this by Labour and they could if they wanted to really attack Johnson but that is not corbyns style he says "they go low we go high" Not his style ? The grenfel tower was still burning when he started pointing fingers! I don’t see what’s wrong with what Johnson has said, he’s just pointing out the history of the law which enabled this terrorist to be walking the streets, I believe the Tories changed the law in 2012 ?but this guy was sentenced under the old law created by labour ? All Corbyn has to say is he wasn’t in power when this law came in.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2019 11:53:29 GMT
Cynical and a little short sighted if I may say so. The time for a complete reform of our economic model is now, particularly around the green economy to negate the looming crisis, and with government borrowing available at an all time low. I absolutely accept that any "giveaways" on the back of the grey manifesto book will be seen as cynical electioneering, but maintaining the status quo whoever takes the reigns will be disastrous. It's equally unhelpful for people to sneer from their comfortable lifestyles about them "giving away free stuff" when there is clearly an alternative path. Countries like Germany, and parts of Scandinavia have already shown this. Economists backing LabourNew StatemanHere's a little more cynicism - a bunch of leftie economists support Labour's plans ain't mush of a surprise. I suspect most of them are based in academia rather than the real world apart from possibly doing a few (over)paid stints on the BBC (which is hardly the real world). People will swallow any old shit from the establishment mouthpiece the CBI though. “Nationalising the energy companies would be disastrous” writes the woman who works as a consultant to all the major energy companies......
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Post by essexstokey on Dec 2, 2019 11:59:50 GMT
the problem is Johnson did the blame game trying to shirk his parties responsibility instead of politisising it he should have said we will work with all parties to try and get to the bottom and instigate an inquiry after the election. instead he acted like a child as usual!! He’s only stated the truth, is he not ? People are bound to ask questions of how this came to be and this terrorist was let out early under a 2008 labour law that means automatic release halfway through a sentence. It doesn’t reflect badly on Corbyn per-se as he wasnt even in power at the time. ok you got me to bite In office for 10 years they could have repealed this any time over the ten years cut backs in the prison service cancelling of IPS privatising of the probation service making it unfit for purpose cuts to the prison service 20000 less police cuts to mental heath services cuts to border forces cuts to public services like youth clubs youth workers etc I didn't want to print this but i'm sick and tired of some on here playing the blaim game and not facing up to the facts. As I said earlier Johnson could have said I will work with others to try and get to the bottom of this after the election and we will implement the conclusions to make people safe but no he chose to use the not me gove line which was indefensible and some on here have carried this on
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Post by GrahamHyde on Dec 2, 2019 12:00:42 GMT
Some interesting subsidiary polling questions in the Survation poll which might surprise some who post here. They suggest that the slight reduction in the Tory lead is due to Remainers moving from LibD to Labour in Remain seats.
“Out of the following, who do you trust the most to tell the truth?” Johnson (Con): 27% Corbyn (Lab): 20% Sturgeon (SNP): 14% Swinson (Ldem): 12% Don’t Know: 27%
“Regardless of your current voting intention, which party do you think has had the best campaign so far?” CON: 31% LAB: 19% LDEM: 6% BRX: 2% SNP: 2% PC: 0%
“Which of the following party leaders do you think would make the best Prime Minister?” Boris Johnson: 43% Jeremy Corbyn: 25% Jo Swinson: 11% Don’t know: 21%
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2019 12:02:43 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 2, 2019 12:12:32 GMT
Agreed. What’s your excuse? So you're saying that bullshit tabloids can get away with spouting shit and exploiting someone's death, just to back up their agenda?..and that even the relatives of the deceased can't point out that they're wrong. The paper needs to be banged to rights for this kind of vile behaviour. They should be shut down for that kind of shit. It's not acceptable and the more people know about that, the better. ] It's pathetic that you would even argue that people can't repost the dads tweet, just because it goes against your agenda. I agree they shouldn't of used the lads photo They should of instead used thousands of silhouettes of the innocent victims of predominantly Muslim gangs that have systematically raped there way across the North of England whilst Labour run councils turned a blind eye
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2019 12:28:01 GMT
He’s only stated the truth, is he not ? People are bound to ask questions of how this came to be and this terrorist was let out early under a 2008 labour law that means automatic release halfway through a sentence. It doesn’t reflect badly on Corbyn per-se as he wasnt even in power at the time. ok you got me to bite In office for 10 years they could have repealed this any time over the ten years cut backs in the prison service cancelling of IPS privatising of the probation service making it unfit for purpose cuts to the prison service 20000 less police cuts to mental heath services cuts to border forces cuts to public services like youth clubs youth workers etc I didn't want to print this but i'm sick and tired of some on here playing the blaim game and not facing up to the facts. As I said earlier Johnson could have said I will work with others to try and get to the bottom of this after the election and we will implement the conclusions to make people safe but no he chose to use the not me gove line which was indefensible and some on here have carried this on The bit you still don't get, 9 years later, is that cuts were the inevitable result of the 2008 crash. End of. The comical thing is that you probably believe that our security and judicial system would be tighter and tougher under people like Corbyn and Abbott. If there's one thing this nation needs it's a Waco-style mass suicide of Momentum members after they get battered in the election. It'll free up mental health services and rid this nation of some absolute fucking loons.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 2, 2019 12:38:45 GMT
More Tory bashing on Politics Live. Jo and two guests against the Tory representative. I am astounded that people think the Beeb are anti Labour!
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Post by Northy on Dec 2, 2019 12:40:13 GMT
He’s only stated the truth, is he not ? People are bound to ask questions of how this came to be and this terrorist was let out early under a 2008 labour law that means automatic release halfway through a sentence. It doesn’t reflect badly on Corbyn per-se as he wasnt even in power at the time. ok you got me to bite In office for 10 years they could have repealed this any time over the ten years cut backs in the prison service cancelling of IPS privatising of the probation service making it unfit for purpose cuts to the prison service 20000 less police cuts to mental heath services cuts to border forces cuts to public services like youth clubs youth workers etc I didn't want to print this but i'm sick and tired of some on here playing the blaim game and not facing up to the facts. As I said earlier Johnson could have said I will work with others to try and get to the bottom of this after the election and we will implement the conclusions to make people safe but no he chose to use the not me gove line which was indefensible and some on here have carried this on 10 years, where do you get that from ? 5 years a coalition, and 4 years as Tories with 3 1/2 stuck in Brexit talks not helped by all sides MP's being twats. The coalition got the law changed in 2012 so they had only been in for 2 years, changing a cock up from labour. This bomber was sentenced under the Labour 2008 laws and you don't repeal the ECJ who said it was against his human rights. The ECJ that you want to stay in ?
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 2, 2019 12:41:26 GMT
People will swallow any old shit from the establishment mouthpiece the CBI though. “Nationalising the energy companies would be disastrous” writes the woman who works as a consultant to all the major energy companies...... Very true. You old cynic! Only the same as a Green spokeswoman on the TV the other day admitting she had a vested interest in the Green technology she was pushing. Everyone's on the take.
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 2, 2019 14:26:28 GMT
And if Johnson did nothing people would say he’s putting the nation in danger “why isn’t he doing anything about the other 74 terrorists on our streets” the problem is Johnson did the blame game trying to shirk his parties responsibility instead of politisising it he should have said we will work with all parties to try and get to the bottom and instigate an inquiry after the election. instead he acted like a child as usual!! You mean like Labour did with Grenfell ?
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 2, 2019 14:32:38 GMT
I'm on the verge of voting for labour, just holding out until they announce that all beer in pubs will be free then I'm in. Yes - but wait till you see what they charge for using the toilets. Yes but they will be gender neutral toilets partick. And kilo just for you
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2019 14:39:13 GMT
What would retribution gain us? I understand the thought behind deterrence, but it must never, ever be used. How is it a deterrent if the opposition know we(((Corbyn))) will never use it ? Having nuclear weapons is a deterrent anyway because unless you are 100% sure an enemy wouldn't retaliate, it isn't worth firing first. But I don't want them at all tbh.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2019 14:41:52 GMT
Cynical and a little short sighted if I may say so. The time for a complete reform of our economic model is now, particularly around the green economy to negate the looming crisis, and with government borrowing available at an all time low. I absolutely accept that any "giveaways" on the back of the grey manifesto book will be seen as cynical electioneering, but maintaining the status quo whoever takes the reigns will be disastrous. It's equally unhelpful for people to sneer from their comfortable lifestyles about them "giving away free stuff" when there is clearly an alternative path. Countries like Germany, and parts of Scandinavia have already shown this. Economists backing LabourNew StatemanHere's a little more cynicism - a bunch of leftie economists support Labour's plans ain't mush of a surprise. I suspect most of them are based in academia rather than the real world apart from possibly doing a few (over)paid stints on the BBC (which is hardly the real world). Overwhelming economic opinion is that austerity doesn't work.
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Post by dutchstokie on Dec 2, 2019 15:04:06 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 2, 2019 15:21:12 GMT
You are aware that this guy is a lefty satirist who hates the Tories?
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Post by Kilo on Dec 2, 2019 16:01:43 GMT
Blimey, I've been to Groningen as well - should have stayed there. (although it was in 1985)
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Post by serpico on Dec 2, 2019 17:18:14 GMT
Maybe Johnson should should have taken the Neil interview today, the prince andrew panorama program is on at 9 and will likely take the bulk of the headlines and attention tomorrow.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 2, 2019 19:35:06 GMT
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 2, 2019 19:39:32 GMT
In other news I am now identifying as a WASPI woman. I will vote for a tin of Spam if I am given 30 grand.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 2, 2019 19:40:07 GMT
Vote Labour
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Post by GrahamHyde on Dec 2, 2019 19:49:56 GMT
Why are people so scared of another referendum? If leaving the European Union is still the will of the people then 'Leave' will win again and we'll be out as this time we'll have voted on a deal, not a binary yes or no. As such, Parliament will have nothing to discuss as the people have chosen an actual deal. The problem with the original referendum is that a simple 'Leave' vote meant our sovereign, democratic Parliament couldn't decide on the best form of leaving that would see the country reap the most benefits. That's exactly what they're elected to do. These cries of Parliament stopping democracy simply aren't true. Some people seem to think they're electing a dictator rather than a Prime Minister. Vote Labour, get the Tories out, restore our public services AND get Brexit. Seems the only logical choice to me. Because they're scared they will lose. In which case it's no longer the will of the people.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2019 19:54:45 GMT
You are aware that this guy is a lefty satirist who hates the Tories? Think I just about figured that out after a couple of seconds mate yes......
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Post by ColonelMustard on Dec 2, 2019 20:58:40 GMT
Why are people so scared of another referendum? If leaving the European Union is still the will of the people then 'Leave' will win again and we'll be out as this time we'll have voted on a deal, not a binary yes or no. As such, Parliament will have nothing to discuss as the people have chosen an actual deal. The problem with the original referendum is that a simple 'Leave' vote meant our sovereign, democratic Parliament couldn't decide on the best form of leaving that would see the country reap the most benefits. That's exactly what they're elected to do. These cries of Parliament stopping democracy simply aren't true. Some people seem to think they're electing a dictator rather than a Prime Minister. Vote Labour, get the Tories out, restore our public services AND get Brexit. Seems the only logical choice to me. Because they're scared they will lose. In which case it's no longer the will of the people. I think its because a lot do want a harder Brexit. For whatever reasons. But I dont think there are enough to win a referendum vs Remain. I think No deal/ Boris deal would both lose against remain. A Corbyn deal against Remain is very likely to win indeed.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 2, 2019 21:40:04 GMT
Because they're scared they will lose. In which case it's no longer the will of the people. I think its because a lot do want a harder Brexit. For whatever reasons. But I dont think there are enough to win a referendum vs Remain. I think No deal/ Boris deal would both lose against remain. A Corbyn deal against Remain is very likely to win indeed. Corbyn’s deal can only be worse than Boris deal. The EU will not concede anything else. However Corbyn wants free movement of people that comes with EU conditions so really it’s Remain v Remain a bit less
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 2, 2019 22:31:19 GMT
Vote Labour
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 2, 2019 22:36:13 GMT
So 2 in 3 children will grow up poor.
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 2, 2019 22:53:38 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 2, 2019 23:04:10 GMT
This extract from the article deserves highlighting In other words, if you think things are bad under the Tories, they will be worse under Labour (despite the pious posturing of their supporters). (it would be good to see the latest data but the point is nevertheless clear).
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Post by ColonelMustard on Dec 2, 2019 23:20:35 GMT
I think its because a lot do want a harder Brexit. For whatever reasons. But I dont think there are enough to win a referendum vs Remain. I think No deal/ Boris deal would both lose against remain. A Corbyn deal against Remain is very likely to win indeed. Corbyn’s deal can only be worse than Boris deal. The EU will not concede anything else. However Corbyn wants free movement of people that comes with EU conditions so really it’s Remain v Remain a bit less I'm discussing whether it will get through or not, not really the merits of it. It will appeal to a lot of voters if it honours the result of the first ref but does not nefatively impact Ireland and is not thought to cause a big negative economic impact. It's in the EUs interest to get a conclusion too and to all reports a customs union deal is popular. Freedom of movement is the big one and I couldn't call that. Either way I can see it passing though. And yes it's likely to be more closely aligned and close the door to the type of US deal that current leaders want. But things can change over there too. I'm no expert, just a humpty with the opinion that a Corbyn deal will pass. If we get to that position.
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