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Post by cheshirepotter on Aug 24, 2019 16:56:31 GMT
His system is fucking bollocks and will see him getting sack (and us getting more fucked than we are at the moment). Is he intelligent enough to sack it off (in all its forms) though and save both his job and our blushes? I genuinely don't know where we go from here. Sack another manager and it's back to square one. Don't sack another manager and it's back to League One. What a fucking mess. We should sack him now and get someone in that we should have got in before. Someone who will command respect and not suffer fools. It's time to stop dreaming.
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Post by cheshirepotter on Aug 24, 2019 16:57:08 GMT
His system is fucking bollocks and will see him getting sack (and us getting more fucked than we are at the moment). Is he intelligent enough to sack it off (in all its forms) though and save both his job and our blushes? I genuinely don't know where we go from here. Sack another manager and it's back to square one. Don't sack another manager and it's back to League One. What a fucking mess. We should sack him now and get someone in that we should have got in before. Someone who will command respect and not suffer fools. It's time to stop dreaming.
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Post by serpico on Aug 24, 2019 16:57:57 GMT
He’s started to second guess himself, which is never a good sign for a manager, the best managers are stubborn bastards, they will stick with a system/tactic/player for at least 8 games before relenting if it’s not working.
I feel for jones, I think he’s a bit lost now, Coates should offer him a coaching job under a new manager.
Pulis with Nathan as number2 ? Jones could learn a lot from TP defensively... I need a shower.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 16:58:02 GMT
I'm not sure any system would have saved us today. We might have been hammered by more with the diamond. For the umpteenth time, he DID play the diamond midfield today. Cousins Etebo Clucas Duffy It was only a slight tweak from his usually formation in that he played an extra defender for a striker but the midfield diamond was there until the 55th minute like it always has been. It is not the same system as a 4-4-2 diamond. And if he was still doing it in midfield that explains why there was fuck all support for anyone in the midfield. I was there but I don’t know what they were doing. The players looked like they didn’t know either.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 24, 2019 17:02:09 GMT
I'm not sure any system would have saved us today. We might have been hammered by more with the diamond. For the umpteenth time, he DID play the diamond midfield today. Cousins Etebo Clucas Duffy It was only a slight tweak from his usually formation in that he played an extra defender for a striker but the midfield diamond was there until the 55th minute like it always has been. Cheers, mate. Only listened to it on Radio Stoke and missed the exact formation. I don't like any form of the diamond, either.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 24, 2019 17:08:47 GMT
For the umpteenth time, he DID play the diamond midfield today. Cousins Etebo Clucas Duffy It was only a slight tweak from his usually formation in that he played an extra defender for a striker but the midfield diamond was there until the 55th minute like it always has been. Cheers, mate. Only listened to it on Radio Stoke and missed the exact formation. I don't like any form of the diamond, either. We just don't have the players for it, which is staggering considering he's brought in 11 players of his own. Trouble is if we go back to a traditional 4 at the back we don't have a left back for it as the only player we had was sold to Burnley who's still good enough to play in the Prem.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 24, 2019 17:10:15 GMT
Cheers, mate. Only listened to it on Radio Stoke and missed the exact formation. I don't like any form of the diamond, either. We just don't have the players for it, which is staggering considering he's brought in 11 players of his own. Trouble is if we go back to a traditional 4 at the back we don't have a left back for it as the only player we had was sold to Burnley who's still good enough to play in the Prem. Ward, but he doesn't seem first choice?
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Post by rorystowel on Aug 24, 2019 17:11:40 GMT
Jones out, Hughton in.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 24, 2019 17:11:49 GMT
We just don't have the players for it, which is staggering considering he's brought in 11 players of his own. Trouble is if we go back to a traditional 4 at the back we don't have a left back for it as the only player we had was sold to Burnley who's still good enough to play in the Prem. Ward, but he doesn't seem first choice? I'm not sure he's up to the rigour of the championship. He looks totally unfit to me.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 24, 2019 17:12:54 GMT
I have to agree, I wanted the set up today and having seen it clearly doesn't work, at least we were creating chances before, I just hope he doesn't bring Allen back in after one game.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 24, 2019 17:14:50 GMT
I have to agree, I wanted the set up today and having seen it clearly doesn't work, at least we were creating chances before, I just hope he doesn't bring Allen back in after one game. Allen is not even close to being top of our problems at the minute.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 24, 2019 17:20:00 GMT
I have to agree, I wanted the set up today and having seen it clearly doesn't work, at least we were creating chances before, I just hope he doesn't bring Allen back in after one game. Allen is not even close to being top of our problems at the minute. I'd say he is, he's big wages just wasted, he's part of why we had to go cheap this season, if he was worth it then it would have been fine but he aint, but there clearly are other problems, we're still yet to find two center backs that actually work well together and no one in the middle is looking remotely competent.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 19:13:31 GMT
Jones should stick to what he knows best. There were many positives to take from his diamond formation he was using and it was only slight tweeks which were needed. Today he has given in to peer pressure and made too many changes, it's desperate and it never works. I don't know if that is entirely true. He played a 3CD-system in his first match vs Leeds last season, and it was his first success for us, perhaps his only success (even though he's won another two). So I think it was always on the cards that he would try something similar again. He did in fact tweek his diamond today within it. And while neither side played especially well, it did to a degree work well enough for the first 40mins (only to a degree, because while Leeds had only had a couple of shots, we had had none at all). Then as before we caved in, when they scored. I don't think you can criticise all of the personnel changes either. Frederici wasn't to blame for any goals and saved us from losing by more. Collins possibly played his least good match so far, but he was still better than Batth. Etebo, again not a sensational performance but more coherent, constructive, and with more purpose than Allen. What I would like to criticise is that we perhaps played as if Batth was still sweeping up behind, so all balls went to him to hoof forwards; but instead of Collins in his place making constructive forward runs (which he is capable of), he just passed further backwards to our sweeperkeeper of the day, Frederici, and then he kicked the ball forward to no one in particular, like Batth does, with the result that Leeds picked up the ball. So instead of moving our possession forwards, we just kept moving backwards as if defending could win you points. This was especially galling on those not insignificant amount of times that we won the ball in tackles; but instead of launching a counter attack or a real attack we just repeatedly passed the ball backwards. Part of the reason is that our four midfielders look up hoping to find a forward player, but with little or no movement by Gregory and Duffy, there's no station to play forwards to, and so the backwards passing spiral begins again, and every time it leads to nothing. There's also too little movement by our wing backs, perhaps they were afraid of losing their direct opponent, McClean perhaps tried, but everything he did went nowhere. The final criticism is our lack of any well rehearsed patterns in our play. Leeds, despite the result, weren't that much better but for each of their goals and some other runs you could see that each player knew what the other was doing and what would happen next. We have no such automatisms in our structure, and that's why we resort to backwards passing and hoofball entirely in the hope that something might happen. It rarely does and today it certainly didn't. It's not actually a big shame for 24th to lose to 1st. It was to be expected. Of course we don't think of ourselves as 24th, but we currently have to get used to it.
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Post by loosestools on Aug 24, 2019 19:29:34 GMT
Jones should stick to what he knows best. There were many positives to take from his diamond formation he was using and it was only slight tweeks which were needed. Today he has given in to peer pressure and made too many changes, it's desperate and it never works. I don't know if that is entirely true. He played a 3CD-system in his first match vs Leeds last season, and it was his first success for us, perhaps his only success (even though he's won another two). So I think it was always on the cards that he would try something similar again. He did in fact tweek his diamond today within it. And while neither side played especially well, it did to a degree work well enough for the first 40mins (only to a degree, because while Leeds had only had a couple of shots, we had had none at all). Then as before we caved in, when they scored. I don't think you can criticise all of the personnel changes either. Frederici wasn't to blame for any goals and saved us from losing by more. Collins possibly played his least good match so far, but he was still better than Batth. Etebo, again not a sensational performance but more coherent, constructive, and with more purpose than Allen. What I would like to criticise is that we perhaps played as if Batth was still sweeping up behind, so all balls went to him to hoof forwards; but instead of Collins in his place making constructive forward runs (which he is capable of), he just passed further backwards to our sweeperkeeper of the day, Frederici, and then he kicked the ball forward to no one in particular, like Batth does, with the result that Leeds picked up the ball. So instead of moving our possession forwards, we just kept moving backwards as if defending could win you points. This was especially galling on those not insignificant amount of times that we won the ball in tackles; but instead of launching a counter attack or a real attack we just repeatedly passed the ball backwards. Part of the reason is that our four midfielders look up hoping to find a forward player, but with little or no movement by Gregory and Duffy, there's no station to play forwards to, and so the backwards passing spiral begins again, and every time it leads to nothing. There's also too little movement by our wing backs, perhaps they were afraid of losing their direct opponent, McClean perhaps tried, but everything he did went nowhere. The final criticism is our lack of any well rehearsed patterns in our play. Leeds, despite the result, weren't that much better but for each of their goals and some other runs you could see that each player knew what the other was doing and what would happen next. We have no such automatisms in our structure, and that's why we resort to backwards passing and hoofball entirely in the hope that something might happen. It rarely does and today it certainly didn't.
It's not actually a big shame for 24th to lose to 1st. It was to be expected. Of course we don't think of ourselves as 24th, but we currently have to get used to it. Happens with every other team we get beaten by. Sick of seeing it, why cant we do it - oh - hold on - we need pace, and coaching, and another manager who knows what he is doing instead of acting in the role of a Missionary trying to convert the natives that his belief will save them. Well it wont save us - so stick him in the boiling pot.
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Post by fca47 on Aug 24, 2019 19:46:12 GMT
He's let himself be panict into too many changes. Needs to stick with a system he knows
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 20:17:18 GMT
I don't know if that is entirely true. He played a 3CD-system in his first match vs Leeds last season, and it was his first success for us, perhaps his only success (even though he's won another two). So I think it was always on the cards that he would try something similar again. He did in fact tweek his diamond today within it. And while neither side played especially well, it did to a degree work well enough for the first 40mins (only to a degree, because while Leeds had only had a couple of shots, we had had none at all). Then as before we caved in, when they scored. I don't think you can criticise all of the personnel changes either. Frederici wasn't to blame for any goals and saved us from losing by more. Collins possibly played his least good match so far, but he was still better than Batth. Etebo, again not a sensational performance but more coherent, constructive, and with more purpose than Allen. What I would like to criticise is that we perhaps played as if Batth was still sweeping up behind, so all balls went to him to hoof forwards; but instead of Collins in his place making constructive forward runs (which he is capable of), he just passed further backwards to our sweeperkeeper of the day, Frederici, and then he kicked the ball forward to no one in particular, like Batth does, with the result that Leeds picked up the ball. So instead of moving our possession forwards, we just kept moving backwards as if defending could win you points. This was especially galling on those not insignificant amount of times that we won the ball in tackles; but instead of launching a counter attack or a real attack we just repeatedly passed the ball backwards. Part of the reason is that our four midfielders look up hoping to find a forward player, but with little or no movement by Gregory and Duffy, there's no station to play forwards to, and so the backwards passing spiral begins again, and every time it leads to nothing. There's also too little movement by our wing backs, perhaps they were afraid of losing their direct opponent, McClean perhaps tried, but everything he did went nowhere. The final criticism is our lack of any well rehearsed patterns in our play. Leeds, despite the result, weren't that much better but for each of their goals and some other runs you could see that each player knew what the other was doing and what would happen next. We have no such automatisms in our structure, and that's why we resort to backwards passing and hoofball entirely in the hope that something might happen. It rarely does and today it certainly didn't.
It's not actually a big shame for 24th to lose to 1st. It was to be expected. Of course we don't think of ourselves as 24th, but we currently have to get used to it. Happens with every other team we get beaten by. Sick of seeing it, why cant we do it - oh - hold on - we need pace, and coaching, and another manager who knows what he is doing instead of acting in the role of a Missionary trying to convert the natives that his belief will save them. Well it wont save us - so stick him in the boiling pot. Happened a lot to us before Jones. Happened a lot under Pulis, and a little under Hughes. Didn't happen so much under Rowett, because with his extreme defensive measures we rarely were in a position to pass the ball forwards at all. We've just got an antiquated way of thinking among our players, or should I say antiquated way, because there seems to be precious little thinking going on among our players.
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