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Post by thehoof on Aug 24, 2019 18:54:12 GMT
I have to say he does look a bit clueless, we made Bamford look like Mario Kempes and they could easily have doubled their score. We were promised an athletic and vibrant attacking side, this rabble look anything other than. Carter Vickers looks a disgrace with his lack of condition.. Seriously worried where this will end..Thought Collins did really well and wasn't phased.. I thought Collins looked a liability. Well you are entitled to an opinion, our midfield is the liability. No skill, no creativity, no desire to track their man . Other than Federico, Collins ( in my opinion) was the only defender we had today. CCV and Lindsay were shite.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 18:55:27 GMT
On what basis do you think that though. I’m not having a go. I’m genuinely curious. For me, there’s no evidence to suggest he has a clue what he’s doing? He looks like he’s started taking monkey dust as well - it’s clearly taking its toll and he doesn’t even sound like he knows. I am genuinely baffled as to how anyone has any faith in him being able to turn this around. The honest is I dont know, but what is the point of keep sacking managers. Whose to say that he wont come good (like I say appreciate that it is shite now). Football fans are far to fickle. Our club has been run badly since TP left and sadly this is the consequence. Two other things that wind me up: Whose to say that any of the names would be interested in joining Stoke- we're not very attractive I used to come on here on the wind up saying get TP back (again- see previous posts). I used to get loads of abuse (didn't/doesn't bother me in the slightest) but look now after a few bad results everyone is on the band wagon. He’s not got a clue and quite frankly, getting a new manager is cheaper than buying a whole new team, and so if we don’t get someone in who wants to play to the strengths of what we have, that’s what we are looking at. I don’t think it’s just jumping on a band wagon after a few bad results I think people can now see we need someone to stabilise the club and he is a man who a lot of people would trust to do that job. People are looking at the situation and being pragmatic. A number of people who said never again which I have spoken to are now changing their minds. It’s how far we have fallen and an accurate assessment of what the next manager needs to do.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Aug 24, 2019 18:56:33 GMT
I have not got a clue so am genuinely asking for plausible solutions. The past two games have finally killed any positive feeling for Jones just a week after a Derby game where he won a bit of it back. But really if we sack Jones, what next? We still have a squad of players not that managers signings, a squad very very much down on confidence. For some reason this feels different to past seasons. You can understand and see solutions for all other sackings but this one if it happens will be huge huge point in our short to long term future (next 5 years) In answer to the title of your post it’s simple; “Look for leadership from the family and directors” .....
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Post by citynickscfc on Aug 24, 2019 19:00:07 GMT
For me?? Business restructuring beds to occur with realistic goals.
Go for broke for a season with a realistic and innovative system. That means new CEO, people with vision, ambition (ffs Arnie).... You know, people who give a crap.
It will take a lot off deep rooted changes, but honestly if we spent 100m more including that on staff and CEO and experts with records, go all out and if we don't make it... Fuck ffp, what is the worst that can happen? A fine am I correct? Minus 10 points? We roll every team. We should have all the riches in the world basically, it shouldn't be too hard.
Oh and fuck self sustainability, that's just lack of ambition Mr Coates... Isn't it????
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 19:32:33 GMT
No we won't. Mathematically basically impossible. We've had 2 poor performances after 2 good ones. 'This can't go on', it's 2 bad performances. Is conceding 13 goals in 5 league games acceptable ? At any level ? Obviously not, no. Something is wrong, but we're now getting in to being way over the top. It's a results driven business, but over the course of a season. not over 5 games.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 24, 2019 19:44:50 GMT
For me?? Business restructuring beds to occur with realistic goals. Go for broke for a season with a realistic and innovative system. That means new CEO, people with vision, ambition (ffs Arnie).... You know, people who give a crap. It will take a lot off deep rooted changes, but honestly if we spent 100m more including that on staff and CEO and experts with records, go all out and if we don't make it... Fuck ffp, what is the worst that can happen? A fine am I correct? Minus 10 points? We roll every team. We should have all the riches in the world basically, it shouldn't be too hard. Oh and fuck self sustainability, that's just lack of ambition Mr Coates... Isn't it???? Are you that Dale bloke from Bury?
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Post by citynickscfc on Aug 24, 2019 19:52:19 GMT
For me?? Business restructuring beds to occur with realistic goals. Go for broke for a season with a realistic and innovative system. That means new CEO, people with vision, ambition (ffs Arnie).... You know, people who give a crap. It will take a lot off deep rooted changes, but honestly if we spent 100m more including that on staff and CEO and experts with records, go all out and if we don't make it... Fuck ffp, what is the worst that can happen? A fine am I correct? Minus 10 points? We roll every team. We should have all the riches in the world basically, it shouldn't be too hard. Oh and fuck self sustainability, that's just lack of ambition Mr Coates... Isn't it???? Are you that Dale bloke from Bury? How did you know??? 😂👎 No, I'm not. But that would be one option wouldn't it, I'm sure the capitalists of this world would agree and the distinct correlative factor in this world is money. It doesn't mean success is guaranteed but if you get the best of the best in, and I mean backroom staff, systems, psychologists, future processes, fan experience, cult identity development etc.... The ffp thing maybe was a stretch too far, but yes, we could go for broke where broke doesn't actually mean we are broke, not if we have any ambition. Saying we will get automation promotion with free transfers is borderline delusional and pathetic. It was never going to work. And 9m for vokes??? Wtf
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Post by firfuxache on Aug 24, 2019 20:04:35 GMT
It all seems like a vicious circle.
Jones comes with 2 things. First one being that almost every Stoke fan had never heard of him. Secondly, his reputation of playing fantastic football with players that no one had heard of and a team which practically walked League 2 and League 1 until he left.
He rocks up here and says give me a bit of time to assemble a team that plays the same way and will make us all proud. January to May give little indication that this is possible. Players are a mix of dross, many different managers and simply ill fitting to “the Stoke” way.
After some severe tinkering Jones appears to have identified the wrong uns and the ones who look like they can make Stoke a team to be feared again. Results aren’t what people want as the personnel don’t fit the system Jones wants to play and heavy criticism come from the terraces. Players confidence is beyond low.
Summer and pre season arrive and with it a raft of new players. Some of the first and second choice targets have been snapped up by bigger teams and we are presented with a squad that underwhelms a good majority of Stoke fans. Pre seasons games get underway and in fairness it’s a better pre season than we’ve been used to in recent history and expectations grows.
The season kicks off, with a loss. Fans are straight on the players and Jones’ back. Confidence drops despite a positive change in attitude and more cohesive play in the second half of the match. Fast forward to Charlton and Barnsley matches. Both can’t cope with the style we are playing and against the run of play both teams score with first chances. Back come Stoke and despite hitting the woodwork on numerous occasions we can’t seem to make the dominance in our play count and both results flatter the opposition. Derby, the same but we at least we get our first point. Then the nightmare at Preston. No one saw that coming and rightly so players receive criticism. Fans are calling for Jones to make changes and drop Allen & Butland and ditch the diamond. Both are done. Into town cone league leaders and we nearly make it to half time but concede a few minutes before half time. In trying to get a foothold in the game we are over run and punished again.
It seems like the players are too afraid to make a mistake for fear of fans turning on them. The fans won’t support the team because we aren’t ripping teams apart and getting the rewards that some of our play is deraerving. Jones tried to play his fabled diamond and it’s not good enough so he makes changes that are called for and it’s still not good enough.
Repeat ad infinitum.
I really don’t know what is going to change to solve the situation at the minute. Players are scared to make mistakes which pushes confidence lower every match that passes without a win and the manager can’t get it right for trying.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 24, 2019 20:05:15 GMT
I thought Collins looked a liability. Well you are entitled to an opinion, our midfield is the liability. No skill, no creativity, no desire to track their man . Other than Federico, Collins ( in my opinion) was the only defender we had today. CCV and Lindsay were shite. I agree the midfield were shocking too, there's clearly a player to develop in Collins and a very good one but he's not ready yet he got lucky he was able to get back after his fuck ups today, he needs to learn quickly.
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Post by northstaffycher on Aug 24, 2019 20:23:34 GMT
Is it stupid to suggest contracting in some competent ex-managers/directors and have them assess problems at the club? Scouting/tactics/player interviews to see if there are any quick fixes. They did bring Rafa in a while back to help with attacking training, so there is some precedent. Why not. Troubleshooters...works in other businesses.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 24, 2019 20:29:03 GMT
It's really not rocket science what's happening, it was always going to happen.
To play a system you have to have the players. We didn't have the players and the players he needed to bring in to even give it a chance were not brought in.
I'm not sure why anyone is surprised in the slightest.
Jones is a deluded fool I'm afraid, if he really thought he could make this work with the players he brought in then I've got no sympathy for him.
He's totally underestimated the division and the whole task in hand.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Aug 24, 2019 20:34:53 GMT
It's really not rocket science what's happening, it was always going to happen. To play a system you have to have the players. We didn't have the players and the players he needed to bring in to even give it a chance were not brought in. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised in the slightest. Jones is a deluded fool I'm afraid, if he really thought he could make this work with the players he brought in then I've got no sympathy for him. He's totally underestimated the division and the whole task in hand. It's unbelievable. All summer, running over and over through his mind, should have been the need to bring in a couple of horrible bastards to play in that midfield, a left back. He's totally neglected the issues that got us in this mess. Like you say, he deserves no sympathy as everyone on here could see he was missing the important issues during the summer. I totally backed him last season. Watching the summer transfer window unfold I realised he really is thick.
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Post by seattlestoke on Aug 24, 2019 20:45:09 GMT
It all seems like a vicious circle. Jones comes with 2 things. First one being that almost every Stoke fan had never heard of him. Secondly, his reputation of playing fantastic football with players that no one had heard of and a team which practically walked League 2 and League 1 until he left. He rocks up here and says give me a bit of time to assemble a team that plays the same way and will make us all proud. January to May give little indication that this is possible. Players are a mix of dross, many different managers and simply ill fitting to “the Stoke” way. After some severe tinkering Jones appears to have identified the wrong uns and the ones who look like they can make Stoke a team to be feared again. Results aren’t what people want as the personnel don’t fit the system Jones wants to play and heavy criticism come from the terraces. Players confidence is beyond low. Summer and pre season arrive and with it a raft of new players. Some of the first and second choice targets have been snapped up by bigger teams and we are presented with a squad that underwhelms a good majority of Stoke fans. Pre seasons games get underway and in fairness it’s a better pre season than we’ve been used to in recent history and expectations grows. The season kicks off, with a loss. Fans are straight on the players and Jones’ back. Confidence drops despite a positive change in attitude and more cohesive play in the second half of the match. Fast forward to Charlton and Barnsley matches. Both can’t cope with the style we are playing and against the run of play both teams score with first chances. Back come Stoke and despite hitting the woodwork on numerous occasions we can’t seem to make the dominance in our play count and both results flatter the opposition. Derby, the same but we at least we get our first point. Then the nightmare at Preston. No one saw that coming and rightly so players receive criticism. Fans are calling for Jones to make changes and drop Allen & Butland and ditch the diamond. Both are done. Into town cone league leaders and we nearly make it to half time but concede a few minutes before half time. In trying to get a foothold in the game we are over run and punished again. It seems like the players are too afraid to make a mistake for fear of fans turning on them. The fans won’t support the team because we aren’t ripping teams apart and getting the rewards that some of our play is deraerving. Jones tried to play his fabled diamond and it’s not good enough so he makes changes that are called for and it’s still not good enough. Repeat ad infinitum. I really don’t know what is going to change to solve the situation at the minute. Players are scared to make mistakes which pushes confidence lower every match that passes without a win and the manager can’t get it right for trying.
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