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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 13:34:23 GMT
I can’t see us being relegated, there I said it. I feel it will come good eventually but that we will continue with our form for a while. I don’t see that sacking another manager is a worthwhile move; each manager wants investment and we can’t just keep buying ridiculous numbers of players a window. I just feel that we have done too much and are paying for the massive influx of players by not having an extensive preseason. I don’t know why we didn’t play more games so we could get players to gel easier. For me, this is the big problem, that and Jack (for now). What should have been done in pre-season is now working its way into the first few games. Going from a team that doesn’t concede to one that lets in 10 in 4 is testament to this.
The hard part now comes in the waiting for this failure to figure itself out and not to exacerbate it by changing 7 players every game. I believe in the squad that we have (barring a few glaring gaps that will hopefully be plugged in January) and I believe that this manager will steady the ship, I just don’t know how long that will take.
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Post by liam007 on Aug 23, 2019 13:37:01 GMT
The first sentence of your post,i said the same thing in 1989.
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Post by mcw on Aug 23, 2019 13:58:56 GMT
The way I see it is that there is no guarantee that this will turn, but that there are glimpses (Preston aside) that what he is trying to do will eventually come good. He needs a result either tomorrow or against Birmingham primarily to calm him and the fans and to make sure that he doesn't start to doubt what he calls his processes and his formation. If he starts to tinker with that, throws player changes in left right and centre then I am afraid the game is up- he will fail because the players will suss that he doesn't believe in what he is preaching and we will lack any consistency of approach.
On the flip side if we get rid now and bring somebody totally new in, then we run the risk of alienating a huge proportion of the playing squad who came specifically on the basis that they bought into Jones's philosophy and style of play. Would those players be right for whatever formation that new manager wanted, how long would it take to "reprogramme" them to what that manager wants. On that basis it is 50/50 on whether changing manager would be a positive or a continuation from where we are now.
It is a risk either way, but I do actually like Jones and think if he doesn't come good for us then he will somewhere else. You don't achieve what he has by pure luck, he is experiencing his first real tough time in management and the question is whether he can get through it and if we give him the time to get through it.
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Post by nott1 on Aug 23, 2019 14:56:30 GMT
He's bought eleven players who are not good enough at the moment and we are heading south at an alarming rate. It's full on panic staions!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 15:01:46 GMT
He's bought eleven players who are not good enough at the moment and we are heading south at an alarming rate. It's full on panic staions! No one seemed to think that after Derby. Gregory and Hogan look very capable for example. I don’t think that Cousines was a great decision and I can only see Powell doing well if he stays fit (so he won’t be doing well) but other than that, I’m very happy with the players he has recruited. |
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Post by nott1 on Aug 23, 2019 15:04:28 GMT
He's bought eleven players who are not good enough at the moment and we are heading south at an alarming rate. It's full on panic staions! No one seemed to think that after Derby. Gregory and Hogan look very capable for example. I don’t think that Cousines was a great decision and I can only see Powell doing well if he stays fit (so he won’t be doing well) but other than that, I’m very happy with the players he has recruited. Good for you but I'm not happy being bottom of the league even if you are! |
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Post by march4 on Aug 23, 2019 15:06:55 GMT
I can’t see us being relegated, there I said it. I feel it will come good eventually but that we will continue with our form for a while. I don’t see that sacking another manager is a worthwhile move; each manager wants investment and we can’t just keep buying ridiculous numbers of players a window. I just feel that we have done too much and are paying for the massive influx of players by not having an extensive preseason. I don’t know why we didn’t play more games so we could get players to gel easier. For me, this is the big problem, that and Jack (for now). What should have been done in pre-season is now working its way into the first few games. Going from a team that doesn’t concede to one that lets in 10 in 4 is testament to this. The hard part now comes in the waiting for this failure to figure itself out and not to exacerbate it by changing 7 players every game. I believe in the squad that we have (barring a few glaring gaps that will hopefully be plugged in January) and I believe that this manager will steady the ship, I just don’t know how long that will take. I fear we could well be relegated, mate. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 15:11:30 GMT
No one seemed to think that after Derby. Gregory and Hogan look very capable for example. I don’t think that Cousines was a great decision and I can only see Powell doing well if he stays fit (so he won’t be doing well) but other than that, I’m very happy with the players he has recruited. Good for you but I'm not happy being bottom of the league even if you are! Again, I don’t feel that this is due to the quality of any of the new signings. A lack of organisation in the summer has hurt us in my opinion. It will take time for so many new players to gel. It’s also not helpful to concede on an opposition’s first attack every week, which, given the majority of those goals conceded, can only really be blamed on Butland, a keeper who is indeed good enough, but one who seems to be woefully out of form. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 15:13:02 GMT
I can’t see us being relegated, there I said it. I feel it will come good eventually but that we will continue with our form for a while. I don’t see that sacking another manager is a worthwhile move; each manager wants investment and we can’t just keep buying ridiculous numbers of players a window. I just feel that we have done too much and are paying for the massive influx of players by not having an extensive preseason. I don’t know why we didn’t play more games so we could get players to gel easier. For me, this is the big problem, that and Jack (for now). What should have been done in pre-season is now working its way into the first few games. Going from a team that doesn’t concede to one that lets in 10 in 4 is testament to this. The hard part now comes in the waiting for this failure to figure itself out and not to exacerbate it by changing 7 players every game. I believe in the squad that we have (barring a few glaring gaps that will hopefully be plugged in January) and I believe that this manager will steady the ship, I just don’t know how long that will take. I fear we could well be relegated, mate. Well if that’s the case, at least we will be able to blood a lot more of the U23s, until we sell them off. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 15:22:16 GMT
I fear we could well be relegated, mate. Well if that’s the case, at least we will be able to blood a lot more of the U23s, until we sell them off. The best are unlikely to be here if we're in League One...there are 4 that look good enough to play at Championship level. And we'll have a load of seniors on big contracts we can't get rid of. There are no positives from going to League One. |
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Aug 23, 2019 15:22:29 GMT
Wasn't it Nathan who's been harping on all Pre-season that promotion is our target, and anything other than the top six is unacceptable???
Wasn't it Nathan who was harping on about how good the squad looked, and was happy with the transfer window???
How things have changed since Pre-season,
We're rooted to the bottom with 1 point in 12, and he's still to play half the players he brought in!!!
Unless things change dramatically, he only has himself to blame for building the fans hopes up!!!
Maybe he needs to learn when to keep his trap shut!!!
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Post by Gob Bluth on Aug 23, 2019 16:04:56 GMT
Jones has only himself to blame much like Rowett. If you ask for the resources to get promotion but your results are poor you’re up against it. He should have said it’s a rebuild and embraced our youngsters more rather than signing players who are marginally better than what we have, who’re never going to get us the extra 20 points we needed. Did we need Hogan and Duffy to get the points total we have over Campbell and Verlinden?
I knew it was going to be hard but I think Jones underestimated it and overestimated his ability. He still has time but he’s already made some expensive decisions assuming we’d be near the top.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 16:18:29 GMT
I can’t see us being relegated, there I said it. I feel it will come good eventually but that we will continue with our form for a while. I don’t see that sacking another manager is a worthwhile move; each manager wants investment and we can’t just keep buying ridiculous numbers of players a window. I just feel that we have done too much and are paying for the massive influx of players by not having an extensive preseason. I don’t know why we didn’t play more games so we could get players to gel easier. For me, this is the big problem, that and Jack (for now). What should have been done in pre-season is now working its way into the first few games. Going from a team that doesn’t concede to one that lets in 10 in 4 is testament to this. The hard part now comes in the waiting for this failure to figure itself out and not to exacerbate it by changing 7 players every game. I believe in the squad that we have (barring a few glaring gaps that will hopefully be plugged in January) and I believe that this manager will steady the ship, I just don’t know how long that will take. I fear we could well be relegated, mate. Relegation is not the worst thing that could happen. It would be worse if we sack Jones now but are unable to persuade any quality replacement to come here, because they now know that we are a sack every six months club. Instead we get a Quitteral manager who leaves us in the lurch in February when a better offer comes up, after he's released 10 players on frees and has signed 10 players for £20M which was one of his conditions for coming. Then we appoint a temporary manager for the rest of the season (Russell?). He does a decent job, but wants to return to Academy football in the summer. Then we sign an Icelandic manager and history repeats itself all over again. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 23, 2019 16:21:22 GMT
Nobody gets relegated in August.
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Post by neilb987 on Aug 23, 2019 17:19:16 GMT
I'm actually more concerned with the abilities and form of the players that Jones inherited, rather than the ones he's brought in.
Butland and Allen have been particularly poor this season, for example.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 17:25:47 GMT
I'm actually more concerned with the abilities and form of the players that Jones inherited, rather than the ones he's brought in. Butland and Allen have been particularly poor this season, for example. Does it not alarm you more that the manager is still playing them even over players he bought? |
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Post by swampySCFC on Aug 23, 2019 18:07:23 GMT
We are now attracting negative media attention as a club and playing worse than we have in modern times. The Manager won’t have a pot to piss in if this continues in the next few weeks
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Post by AlliG on Aug 23, 2019 18:12:09 GMT
I fear we could well be relegated, mate. . It would be worse if we sack Jones now but are unable to persuade any quality replacement to come here, because they now know that we are a sack every six months club. Instead we get a Quitteral manager who leaves us in the lurch in February when a better offer comes up, after he's released 10 players on frees and has signed 10 players for £20M which was one of his conditions for coming. Then we appoint a temporary manager for the rest of the season (Russell?). He does a decent job, but wants to return to Academy football in the summer. Then we sign an Icelandic manager and history repeats itself all over again. With the player contracts we currently have, we would be in an absolute financial hole. We might survive (just) the financial disaster of another relegation, but, I certainly wouldn't want to risk it. |
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Post by StoKeith on Aug 23, 2019 18:33:45 GMT
The way I see it, we’ve had 4 games, 2 good performances (Charlton, Derby) which we could easily have got 6 points from and 2 bad performances (QPR, PNE) which we deservedly got nothing. Those four games are not enough to make wholesale changes. The only common thread in all four games has been the defensive cock ups in every single one.
If the players continue to make stupid mistakes every match, we could be in for a rough ride. As well as cutting out individual defensive errors, I think NJ will have to show some tactical nous as Preston nullified our threat with ease on Wednesday.
I think it will turn around, but nothing is guaranteed in football.
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Post by neilb987 on Aug 23, 2019 18:37:41 GMT
I'm actually more concerned with the abilities and form of the players that Jones inherited, rather than the ones he's brought in. Butland and Allen have been particularly poor this season, for example. Does it not alarm you more that the manager is still playing them even over players he bought? Yes, but then he - and I suspect ANY OTHER manager - considers them still to be Premiership quality players becaise that is where they have spent most of their playing careers. Even when they are currently playing crap. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 18:38:34 GMT
What was hard was to make it any worse. To piss anymore money up the wall on goods not fit for purpose but here we are, 18 months later, exceeding our previous incompetencies again and again and again. It’s quite an achievement really.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 18:39:23 GMT
Does it not alarm you more that the manager is still playing them even over players he bought? Yes, but then he - and I suspect ANY OTHER manager - considers them still to be Premiership quality players becaise that is where they have spent most of their playing careers. Even when they are currently playing crap. Why did he need 11 other players then? None of it makes any fucking sense. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 18:51:34 GMT
The way I see it, we’ve had 4 games, 2 good performances (Charlton, Derby) which we could easily have got 6 points from and 2 bad performances (QPR, PNE) which we deservedly got nothing. Those four games are not enough to make wholesale changes. The only common thread in all four games has been the defensive cock ups in every single one. If the players continue to make stupid mistakes every match, we could be in for a rough ride. As well as cutting out individual defensive errors, I think NJ will have to show some tactical nous as Preston nullified our threat with ease on Wednesday. I think it will turn around, but nothing is guaranteed in football. The players - and Jones - do exactly the same as you, which is to delude yourself into thinking "we could easily have got 6 points". Fact is we got one and even that one point was lucky. If it was as easy as you say then surely we would have got them, unless you'll tell me next we lost the points for fun. We are not winning, because the team thinks they are too good to have to put in much of an effort, and because our tactical gameplan is naive and easy to outwit. NJ, so far, has shifted between three or more tactical variations of what I am not really sure anymore. Whatever he has done he has shown ZERO tactical nous and I am just not convinced that he's about to start now. What he does need to start right now is to stop believing that he is more clever than his 23 colleagues. Most of them have been managing and coaching a lot longer than he has. Perhaps he was on top of the game in L1 - I have no way of knowing if he was or not, because I didn't watch L1 football, except sometimes teams in the cups. But what worked for Luton isn't going to work for SCFC. Unless he realises this soon, he, and we, will just continue losing matches. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 18:53:57 GMT
Nobody gets relegated in August. But some do get sacked. Sievert just did. Jones however probably still has one of the safest jobs in football. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 18:59:34 GMT
Relegation is not the worst thing that could happen. It would be worse if we sack Jones now but are unable to persuade any quality replacement to come here, because they now know that we are a sack every six months club. Instead we get a Quitteral manager who leaves us in the lurch in February when a better offer comes up, after he's released 10 players on frees and has signed 10 players for £20M which was one of his conditions for coming. Then we appoint a temporary manager for the rest of the season (Russell?). He does a decent job, but wants to return to Academy football in the summer. Then we sign an Icelandic manager and history repeats itself all over again. With the player contracts we currently have, we would be in an absolute financial hole. We might survive (just) the financial disaster of another relegation, but, I certainly wouldn't want to risk it. We might just lose the lot of them (player contracts) - except those that we're already unable to get rid of. We might be "forced" to field 7-11 academy graduates, and we might discover that we're actually doing well with them. Or.... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 19:00:56 GMT
Wasn't it Nathan who's been harping on all Pre-season that promotion is our target, and anything other than the top six is unacceptable??? Wasn't it Nathan who was harping on about how good the squad looked, and was happy with the transfer window??? How things have changed since Pre-season, We're rooted to the bottom with 1 point in 12, and he's still to play half the players he brought in!!! Unless things change dramatically, he only has himself to blame for building the fans hopes up!!! Maybe he needs to learn when to keep his trap shut!!! It's 4 games into the season. Norwich had 1 point after 4. Bolton had 10 points. |
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Post by StoKeith on Aug 23, 2019 19:08:50 GMT
The way I see it, we’ve had 4 games, 2 good performances (Charlton, Derby) which we could easily have got 6 points from and 2 bad performances (QPR, PNE) which we deservedly got nothing. Those four games are not enough to make wholesale changes. The only common thread in all four games has been the defensive cock ups in every single one. If the players continue to make stupid mistakes every match, we could be in for a rough ride. As well as cutting out individual defensive errors, I think NJ will have to show some tactical nous as Preston nullified our threat with ease on Wednesday. I think it will turn around, but nothing is guaranteed in football. The players - and Jones - do exactly the same as you, which is to delude yourself into thinking "we could easily have got 6 points". Fact is we got one and even that one point was lucky. If it was as easy as you say then surely we would have got them, unless you'll tell me next we lost the points for fun. We are not winning, because the team thinks they are too good to have to put in much of an effort, and because our tactical gameplan is naive and easy to outwit. NJ, so far, has shifted between three or more tactical variations of what I am not really sure anymore. Whatever he has done he has shown ZERO tactical nous and I am just not convinced that he's about to start now. What he does need to start right now is to stop believing that he is more clever than his 23 colleagues. Most of them have been managing and coaching a lot longer than he has. Perhaps he was on top of the game in L1 - I have no way of knowing if he was or not, because I didn't watch L1 football, except sometimes teams in the cups. But what worked for Luton isn't going to work for SCFC. Unless he realises this soon, he, and we, will just continue losing matches. The team that plays better doesn’t always win (You said: “If it was as easy as you say then surely we would have got them”). That might be almost always true in a sport like basketball, but in football the better team can and often does lose, so me saying “we could easily have got 6 points from Charlton and Derby” is not at all delusional. It’s far more delusional to think that a bad result means it must have been a bad performance. This over-simplistic type of thought process is what leads to irrational overreaction. That said, there have been bad performances too, so I agree that Jones has to change something more significantly than he has before. You may also be right about overconfidence, but I have no idea about that. |
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Post by loosestools on Aug 23, 2019 19:16:02 GMT
The way I see it, we’ve had 4 games, 2 good performances (Charlton, Derby) which we could easily have got 6 points from and 2 bad performances (QPR, PNE) which we deservedly got nothing. Those four games are not enough to make wholesale changes. The only common thread in all four games has been the defensive cock ups in every single one. If the players continue to make stupid mistakes every match, we could be in for a rough ride. As well as cutting out individual defensive errors, I think NJ will have to show some tactical nous as Preston nullified our threat with ease on Wednesday. I think it will turn around, but nothing is guaranteed in football. The players - and Jones - do exactly the same as you, which is to delude yourself into thinking "we could easily have got 6 points". Fact is we got one and even that one point was lucky. If it was as easy as you say then surely we would have got them, unless you'll tell me next we lost the points for fun. We are not winning, because the team thinks they are too good to have to put in much of an effort, and because our tactical gameplan is naive and easy to outwit. NJ, so far, has shifted between three or more tactical variations of what I am not really sure anymore. Whatever he has done he has shown ZERO tactical nous and I am just not convinced that he's about to start now. What he does need to start right now is to stop believing that he is more clever than his 23 colleagues. Most of them have been managing and coaching a lot longer than he has. Perhaps he was on top of the game in L1 - I have no way of knowing if he was or not, because I didn't watch L1 football, except sometimes teams in the cups. But what worked for Luton isn't going to work for SCFC. Unless he realises this soon, he, and we, will just continue losing matches. Exactly. QED |
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Aug 23, 2019 19:52:32 GMT
Wasn't it Nathan who's been harping on all Pre-season that promotion is our target, and anything other than the top six is unacceptable??? Wasn't it Nathan who was harping on about how good the squad looked, and was happy with the transfer window??? How things have changed since Pre-season, We're rooted to the bottom with 1 point in 12, and he's still to play half the players he brought in!!! Unless things change dramatically, he only has himself to blame for building the fans hopes up!!! Maybe he needs to learn when to keep his trap shut!!! It's 4 games into the season. Norwich had 1 point after 4. Bolton had 10 points. Wish people would stop comparing us to Norwich!!! We ain't gonna do a Norwich!!!  |
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Post by Scrotnig on Aug 23, 2019 20:05:08 GMT
we could easily have got 6 points We didn't. We got 1. Out of 12. It's disastrously poor. Football is about results and we aren't getting them. |
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